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Julian Assange violates parole

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Camarohusky
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Response to Julian Assange violates parole Jun. 23rd, 2012 @ 11:25 PM Reply

At 6/23/12 06:27 PM, Angry-Hatter wrote: A rape accusation carries a lot of weight, and it is more about the defendant proving himself innocent rather than the accuser proving him guilty.

As is the case here. Going by mere law, all the State needs to prove to prove rape is sexual intercourse, and lack of consent, based off of the victim's perception, and not the defendant's.

This can be met by having the victim claim there was sex and that either there was no consent or they were unable to consent.

The burden then shifts to the defendant to disprove that there was sexual contact, to destroy the victim's credibility regarding consent, or to show that the victim's actions created a reasonable (Not too sure about the stanard for this, but it's fairly high) perception that the victim was actually consenting.

Now, the whole jury and credibility of facts thing can change the entire dynamic.

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Response to Julian Assange violates parole Jun. 24th, 2012 @ 12:00 AM Reply

At 6/23/12 11:25 PM, Camarohusky wrote: As is the case here. Going by mere law, all the State needs to prove to prove rape is sexual intercourse, and lack of consent, based off of the victim's perception, and not the defendant's.

This can be met by having the victim claim there was sex and that either there was no consent or they were unable to consent.

The burden then shifts to the defendant to disprove that there was sexual contact, to destroy the victim's credibility regarding consent, or to show that the victim's actions created a reasonable (Not too sure about the stanard for this, but it's fairly high) perception that the victim was actually consenting.

But this is where the trouble begins. It's not like there is always an abundance of evidence that sex was consensual, and when it's all as easy as going to the cops the morning after when you realize that you made a decision that you wouldn't have done in a sober state and take it out on someone who wasn't necessarily looking to take advantage, that's problematic.

Lets use an example from my life; I was at a music festival when I was 19, and there was this chick camping out next to me who kept asking me to make out with her. I wasn't particularly interested, seeing as she was doing it with a whole bunch of other dudes at the campsite and she was totally creepy and weird and also a heavy smoker. However, the second night I was there I had been drinking just a little bit too much, and she was still pestering me about it and whining and pleading and trying to guilt trip me by saying that I thought she was bad looking (which honestly, I did). So, I finally gave in and took her to my tent and proceeded to make out with her for a bit, and after it was over, she left and I felt sick and full of regret, my mouth tasting like an ashtray. I would never have agreed to it if I had been sober.

So, the moral of the story? Don't drink too much, because you might do some shit you'll regret later. Should I have pressed charges against her for taking advantage of my drunken state and "molesting" me? No, because I agreed to it and gave my consent, and just because I regretted it later doesn't change that fact.

Now, the whole jury and credibility of facts thing can change the entire dynamic.

In Swedish court there is no jury, only one judge and two assistant judges (and a secretary taking notes). They decide the entire thing, ruling and sentencing and all.


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Response to Julian Assange violates parole Jun. 24th, 2012 @ 03:43 PM Reply

At 6/24/12 12:00 AM, Angry-Hatter wrote: In Swedish court there is no jury, only one judge and two assistant judges (and a secretary taking notes). They decide the entire thing, ruling and sentencing and all.

;;;;
Angry Hatter
There's this story of how it seems Sweden's Prosecution is just making up the rules for this case as they go along.

Giving IMO credence to Assange's fears its a set up to get him into Sweden, where he will be questioned, not charged & held because of an extradition request from the USofA.
Where they will throw him in a hole & forget about him, just like those stillin Quantanimo.
One need only to look at the treatment of their own citizen Bradley Manning to get a feel of how out of control the US authorities are.


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Response to Julian Assange violates parole Jun. 24th, 2012 @ 03:45 PM Reply

At 6/24/12 03:43 PM, morefngdbs wrote:
At 6/24/12 12:00 AM, Angry-Hatter wrote: In Swedish court there is no jury, only one judge and two assistant judges (and a secretary taking notes).

;;;;

Angry Hatter

sorry forgot the link
http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/12/02/when-it-comes-to-assange -r-pe-case-the-swedes-are-making-it-up-as-they-go-along/
please NEWGROUNDS I FORGOT THE FUCKING LINK ! ! ! !
LET ME POST THE DAMN THING !


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Response to Julian Assange violates parole Jun. 24th, 2012 @ 03:50 PM Reply

At 6/24/12 03:43 PM, morefngdbs wrote: Angry Hatter
There's this story of how it seems Sweden's Prosecution is just making up the rules for this case as they go along.

Well, first they dropped the rape charges because a lack of evidence, but then all of a sudden they find new evidence that's so compelling that we still have no idea what it is, and voilà , rape charges are back.


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Response to Julian Assange violates parole Jun. 24th, 2012 @ 03:59 PM Reply

At 6/24/12 03:43 PM, morefngdbs wrote:
At 6/24/12 12:00 AM, Angry-Hatter wrote: In Swedish court there is no jury, only one judge and two assistant judges (and a secretary taking notes). They decide the entire thing, ruling and sentencing and all.
;;;;
Angry Hatter
There's this story of how it seems Sweden's Prosecution is just making up the rules for this case as they go along.

yeah A STORY thats all.

Giving IMO credence to Assange's fears its a set up to get him into Sweden, where he will be questioned, not charged & held because of an extradition request from the USofA.

even though its been confirmed the US has had nothing to do with this since THE BEGINNING. and were going to extradite him so we can give him the Death Penalty like his paranoid ass thinks? pleasecan barely ever give the death penalty to our own scum in our country HOW THE FUCK DO YOU THINK WE CAN DO IT TO A FOREIGN CITIZEN?

food for thought nutjob.

Where they will throw him in a hole & forget about him, just like those stillin Quantanimo.

Unlawful combatants, who's trials are going slowly. there are already a few of them going through now.

One need only to look at the treatment of their own citizen Bradley Manning to get a feel of how out of control the US authorities are.

Bradley Manning is going to get life in prison as a minimum if he gets the maximum he will get the death penalty for Treason and possibly aiding the Enemy. He released Secret Information, he jeopardized agents, sources in the field, and strained foreign relations with countries the US has rocky relations with. not only that he made people look like fools.

that fucker brought it on himself he should have realized what he was getting into when he was in the recruiters office.

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Response to Julian Assange violates parole Jun. 25th, 2012 @ 08:10 PM Reply

At 6/23/12 08:37 AM, Korriken wrote: I'll be honest, I wanna see em get extradited so I can read about the court proceedings.

Least that's honest, yes.

Also, Assange's arrogant prick attitude rubs me the wrong way.

K, really has fuck all to do with the charges though.

Did he actually rape them? I wouldn't doubt it.

Why? Do you have some evidence? Some concrete proof.

guys in a position like Assange tend to develop superman syndrome and figure of the government can't stop them, no one can and they can do as they please.

So no, you really don't, you just decided that "guys like him" (keeping in mind you don't actually know him) would do something like that...wow.


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Response to Julian Assange violates parole Jun. 25th, 2012 @ 08:16 PM Reply

At 6/23/12 03:16 PM, Angry-Hatter wrote: Let's just be clear that what Assange is being accused of, MINOR rape, probably has no equivalent in the US. It's basically where a woman gives her consent for sex but argues afterwards that it was non-consensual, that the man took advantage of her somehow. For example, a man starts chatting with a fabulously drunk woman and she agrees to have sex with him, she wakes up the next morning and regrets her decision, boom, rape charges.

This CAN happen in America to a degree...it's just that you can't admit the sex was consenual, then say it wasn't. It is possible for a woman to have consensual sex then decide to later call it rape (it happened to a NY anchor a couple months back). Such a situation is unfortunate, and can become cloudy because of the burden of proof and public attitudes etc.

Regardless, the charges against Assange are very minor to begin with, so to go around shouting RAPIST RAPIST RAPIST is a bit excessive.

Agreed, I'm not saying he did it. I don't know that he did anything wrong, so I'm using innocent till proven guilty. What pisses me off is that those who ARE saying he did it, don't offer real or credible proof, and I suspect only want to believe it because they hate and disapprove of the work he's done with wikileaks. That's what is disgusting to me, they care nothing for what he actually got accused of, it's just an excuse to indictment someone who's work and beliefs they disagree with.


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Tony-DarkGrave
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Response to Julian Assange violates parole Jun. 26th, 2012 @ 10:11 AM Reply

well it looks like they ecuadorians started the process of evaluating his request.

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Response to Julian Assange violates parole Jun. 26th, 2012 @ 12:20 PM Reply

At 6/26/12 10:11 AM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: well it looks like they ecuadorians started the process of evaluating his request.

I hope they deny it. Regardless of Assange's involvement in Wikileaks, he should face his charges.

I am not very fond of the precedent that Ecuador would send if they give him asylum. It will essentially give political enemies carte blanche to commit whatever crimes they wish whilst using the threat of extradition as a shield to facing those charges.

What Ecuador could offer, as a compromise, is to bring him back to Sweden, but leave him in the local Ecuadorian embassy and force the trial to be held there, thus allowing Assange to face the charges and allow them to block any extradition attempt.

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Response to Julian Assange violates parole Jul. 2nd, 2012 @ 10:37 AM Reply

US Senator renews call for Assange to be prosecuted for espionage

While Julian Assange is still holed up in the Ecuadorian Embassy awaiting possible political asylum, a U.S. Senator has renewed calls for him to be prosecuted for espionage.
Senator Diane Feinstein of the Senate intelligence oversight committee has reiterated the view that the WikiLeaks founder has compromised America's security.
Feinstein said that, "Assange had knowingly attained and disseminated information which could cause injury to the U.S." and that he had "caused serious harm to national security and should be prosecuted accordingly."
"Mr Assange should be prosecuted under the Espionage Act [of 1917]." Feinstein said in a written statement.
She further said that he shouldn't be protected by the First Amendment, which protects free speech, and is enshrined in the U.S. Constitution and says, "He calls himself a journalist, but he's no journalist, he is an agitator intent on damaging the U.S. government."
There are, however, mixed signals coming from the U.S. with U.S. Foreign Minister, Bob Carr, denying "the remotest evidence that there was a U.S. intention to prosecute Julian Assange."
However on the same day, the U.S. Justice Department again confirmed that there was a continued investigation into WikiLeaks.

RT's reporter says that while this sounds bad for Assange, all this information will be added to the file which Ecuador is creating on Assange and could benefit him in his appeal for political asylum.
In related news, while the author of this article believed that last week's episode of Assange's "The World Tomorrow" was the last one, there will be one more final episode tomorrow, where Assange interviews Anwar Ibrahim, the leader of the Malaysian opposition, who has had similar experiences to those suffered by Assange.

oh snap lol. and get this said senator is a Democrat!

what a TWIST!
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Response to Julian Assange violates parole Jul. 2nd, 2012 @ 11:11 AM Reply

At 7/2/12 10:37 AM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: all this information will be added to the file which Ecuador is creating on Assange and could benefit him in his appeal for political asylum.

This is why Feinstein's comment is flat out stupid. If you're trying to get Ecuador to release Assange to actually face his rape charges, it'd be best to NOT fuel the idea that you want him out just to take him yourself.

As Feinstein's a Democrat (that's the extent of what i know about her) it could, after a bit of a stretch, be a ploy to get Ecuador to keep him and not turn him over. Unlikely, but possible.

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Response to Julian Assange violates parole Jul. 2nd, 2012 @ 11:14 AM Reply

At 7/2/12 10:37 AM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: oh snap lol. and get this said senator is a Democrat!

what a TWIST!

;;;;
If you go back a few posts, you may notice your rebuttal of mine & where I mention the back room manovering to bring him to the USofA & you state ' it isn't happening '
-QUOTE - Tony-darkgrave " even though its been confirmed the US has had nothing to do with this since THE BEGINING " - end quote
& I'm a nut job .
Too bad Its not all written on paper I'd like to see you eat your words.

Perhaps us nutjobs may be on to a bit more than you are capable of finding out for yourself.

Plus how can an Austrailian commit treason against the USofA ?

Under the definition of treason it isn't possible, HE could easily be charged with something else like espionage but as an Austrailian it can't be treason unless he's committed acts against his own country & they charge him for it !


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Response to Julian Assange violates parole Jul. 2nd, 2012 @ 11:28 AM Reply

At 7/2/12 11:14 AM, morefngdbs wrote: If you go back a few posts, you may notice your rebuttal of mine & where I mention the back room manovering to bring him to the USofA & you state ' it isn't happening '
-QUOTE - Tony-darkgrave " even though its been confirmed the US has had nothing to do with this since THE BEGINING " - end quote
& I'm a nut job .
Too bad Its not all written on paper I'd like to see you eat your words.

Perhaps us nutjobs may be on to a bit more than you are capable of finding out for yourself.

at the time they weren't and its still under investigation, and the word of one senator doesn't mean shit its just Ironic it would take them this long plus since its not official (from our government) seeing as we already have our scapegoat for the Wikileaks (bradley manning) I don't think this will go anywhere

no word eating is needed sorry.

Plus how can an Austrailian commit treason against the USofA ?

Under the definition of treason it isn't possible, HE could easily be charged with something else like espionage but as an Austrailian it can't be treason unless he's committed acts against his own country & they charge him for it !

dunno but they could give him Espionage charges aiding our enemy. and I don't know where the moron got the idea of us giving him the death penalty the US can't give the death penalty to a foreign citizen.

At 7/2/12 11:11 AM, Camarohusky wrote: This is why Feinstein's comment is flat out stupid. If you're trying to get Ecuador to release Assange to actually face his rape charges, it'd be best to NOT fuel the idea that you want him out just to take him yourself.

true but it doesn't matter since the US and UK have extradiction treaties with ecuador

As Feinstein's a Democrat (that's the extent of what i know about her) it could, after a bit of a stretch, be a ploy to get Ecuador to keep him and not turn him over. Unlikely, but possible.

I don't knowthat seems a bit of a stretch and what she said had a ring of truth.

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Response to Julian Assange violates parole Jul. 2nd, 2012 @ 02:11 PM Reply

At 7/2/12 11:28 AM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: at the time they weren't and its still under investigation, and the word of one senator doesn't mean shit its just Ironic it would take them this long plus since its not official (from our government) seeing as we already have our scapegoat for the Wikileaks (bradley manning) I don't think this will go anywhere

That's what you think? That the government will settle for a scapegoat? Is that why they spent months and months trying to break Manning and get him to roll over on Assange? They don't care about Manning, he's just a lone whistleblower. Wikileaks, on the other hand, is an organization dedicated to whistleblowing, one that has caused incalculable damage to the US Government by airing out its dirty little secrets. You think that's going to be allowed to stand? No, they've already taken measures to destroy Wikileaks by making it close to impossible for them to raise donations, and they've been gunning for Assange all along.

dunno but they could give him Espionage charges aiding our enemy.

Yeah, because after all, there's a very fine line between espionage and journalism. Publishing leaked documents for all the world to see is exactly the same as secretly giving those documents to an organization bent on destroying the US.

If I didn't know any better, I'd say that Julian Assange was the worst spy ever.

and I don't know where the moron got the idea of us giving him the death penalty the US can't give the death penalty to a foreign citizen.

Who knows? Maybe it was all of the non-US citizens the US has executed that gave him that impression?

At 7/2/12 11:11 AM, Camarohusky wrote: This is why Feinstein's comment is flat out stupid. If you're trying to get Ecuador to release Assange to actually face his rape charges, it'd be best to NOT fuel the idea that you want him out just to take him yourself.
true but it doesn't matter since the US and UK have extradiction treaties with ecuador

Having read the treaties that Ecuador has with the US, Assange is perfectly safe from extradition, unless the US is planning to charge Assange with one of the following: murder, rape, arson, piracy, mutiny, burglary, forgery, counterfeiting, embezzlement of public funds, embezzlement of private funds, malicious destruction, or attempted destruction of railways, bridges, vessels, dwellings, public edifices, or other buildings, when the act endangers human life, abortion, trafficking, bigamy, kidnapping, larceny, receiving money under false pretenses, fraud, bribery, crimes against bankruptcy laws, drug crimes, deserting ones children, or participating in the execution of the above mentioned crimes.

All of the above must also have happened in the jurisdiction of the United States for the US to be able to ask for extradition.

http://internationalextraditionblog.files.wordpress.com/2011 /03/ecuador.pdf
http://internationalextraditionblog.files.wordpress.com/2011 /03/ecuador-1941-supplement.pdf


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Response to Julian Assange violates parole Jul. 2nd, 2012 @ 02:28 PM Reply

At 7/2/12 02:11 PM, Angry-Hatter wrote: Yeah, because after all, there's a very fine line between espionage and journalism. Publishing leaked documents for all the world to see is exactly the same as secretly giving those documents to an organization bent on destroying the US.

and this wasn't journalism it was pure malice by mannings part and use Wikileaks as weapon for it and they were more than happy to comply

If I didn't know any better, I'd say that Julian Assange was the worst spy ever.

making it public and making a big show is the worse then you can't be hooded and spirited away like most spies.

and I don't know where the moron got the idea of us giving him the death penalty the US can't give the death penalty to a foreign citizen.
Who knows? Maybe it was all of the non-US citizens the US has executed that gave him that impression?

please 28 in 30+ years? and what makes you think this is death penalty worthy anyways? its hard enough to get our hardest serial killers the death penalty because of liberals. and they sure as hell wouldn't try during a election season.

long shot but thats all they need

All of the above must also have happened in the jurisdiction of the United States for the US to be able to ask for extradition.

http://internationalextraditionblog.files.wordpress.com/2011 /03/ecuador.pdf
http://internationalextraditionblog.files.wordpress.com/2011 /03/ecuador-1941-supplement.pdf

do you think that would stop the US or UK?

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Response to Julian Assange violates parole Jul. 2nd, 2012 @ 04:49 PM Reply

At 7/2/12 02:28 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: and this wasn't journalism it was pure malice by mannings part and use Wikileaks as weapon for it and they were more than happy to comply

Those malicious bastards, revealing a portion of all the terrible things the US government has done.

If I didn't know any better, I'd say that Julian Assange was the worst spy ever.
making it public and making a big show is the worse then you can't be hooded and spirited away like most spies.

It also makes it more difficult to prove that Assange was trying to aid the enemies of the US as opposed to doing a regular old exposé of government wrongdoing.

please 28 in 30+ years? and what makes you think this is death penalty worthy anyways? its hard enough to get our hardest serial killers the death penalty because of liberals. and they sure as hell wouldn't try during a election season.

long shot but thats all they need

Latest one was in 2011. And it's not me saying anything Assange has done is death penalty worthy, it's all the people hollering about espionage that are implicitly saying that Assange deserves the death penalty (espionage carries the death penalty in the US).

http://internationalextraditionblog.files.wordpress.com/2011 /03/ecuador.pdf
http://internationalextraditionblog.files.wordpress.com/2011 /03/ecuador-1941-supplement.pdf
do you think that would stop the US or UK?

Uh, yes. They might send in a special ops team and extract him illegally (though I find that unlikely), but there's no way for the US to demand him extradited legally under the current treaty.


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Response to Julian Assange violates parole Jul. 2nd, 2012 @ 11:29 PM Reply

At 7/2/12 06:46 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: Foreign Minister says Assange is of little interest to the US Source-Sydney Morning Herald

Oh, well if the Australian Foreign Minister says so, then it must be true. After all, who has greater insight into the going-on of the American government than the Australian Foreign Minister.


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Response to Julian Assange violates parole Jul. 2nd, 2012 @ 11:53 PM Reply

At 7/2/12 04:49 PM, Angry-Hatter wrote:
Those malicious bastards, revealing a portion of all the terrible things the US government has done.

You let it slide once, more will come. Every nation has terrible things it's done, not just the US government.

making it public and making a big show is the worse then you can't be hooded and spirited away like most spies.

Worked for James Bond I suppose... Then again, there are more interesting ways to get rid of spies. Also Assange isn't a spy, he didn't break into anything nor did he steal anything. He simply took what other people gave him and took credit for it.

Latest one was in 2011. And it's not me saying anything Assange has done is death penalty worthy, it's all the people hollering about espionage that are implicitly saying that Assange deserves the death penalty (espionage carries the death penalty in the US).

Manning deserves death for treason and espionage, Assange is a far more interesting case. is it espionage to publish classified information he was given? probably, but I'm sure a few shark lawyers would be able to talk him out of that one, provided he can pay for them.

Uh, yes. They might send in a special ops team and extract him illegally (though I find that unlikely), but there's no way for the US to demand him extradited legally under the current treaty.

a quiet assassination would be FAR easier.


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Response to Julian Assange violates parole Jul. 3rd, 2012 @ 12:34 AM Reply

At 7/2/12 11:53 PM, Korriken wrote: You let it slide once, more will come. Every nation has terrible things it's done, not just the US government.

Exactly, and the best disinfectant for corruption is sunshine. I want to see all the terrible things done by any government revealed and out in the open, and I want the ones responsible punished for their crimes. Shutting down a site dedicated to this objective, such as Wikileaks, is not conducive to preventing the abuse of power in the future. Wikileaks has done leaks against nations other than the US too.

Manning deserves death for treason and espionage, Assange is a far more interesting case. is it espionage to publish classified information he was given? probably, but I'm sure a few shark lawyers would be able to talk him out of that one, provided he can pay for them.

Probably? Give me ANY example from history that supports this interpretation of "espionage". Say I'm a newspaper editor, a guy hidden in shadows approach me in the parking lot and hands me a diskette, on it I find documents stamped as ULTRA MEGA TOP SECRET which conclusively prove that Barack Obama personally signed off on Operation Broad Beard which authorized the covert assassination of Andrew Breitbart. So, if I publish this information, am I guilty of "espionage"?

Uh, yes. They might send in a special ops team and extract him illegally (though I find that unlikely), but there's no way for the US to demand him extradited legally under the current treaty.
a quiet assassination would be FAR easier.

And far removed from the supposed ideals of America.


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Response to Julian Assange violates parole Jul. 3rd, 2012 @ 10:08 AM Reply

At 7/2/12 11:29 PM, Angry-Hatter wrote:
At 7/2/12 06:46 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: Foreign Minister says Assange is of little interest to the US Source-Sydney Morning Herald
Oh, well if the Australian Foreign Minister says so, then it must be true. After all, who has greater insight into the going-on of the American government than the Australian Foreign Minister.

nah it was just a interesting piece I thought that might be discussion worthy. apparentlrey not.

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Response to Julian Assange violates parole Jul. 4th, 2012 @ 12:18 AM Reply

At 7/2/12 11:28 AM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: at the time they weren't and its still under investigation,

With calls to get him brought to America. There's at least some fire to that smoke they were putting out. You're denial that ANYTHING was happening on that front is wrong. You should be used to that feeling by now

and the word of one senator doesn't mean shit

Except this isn't just "one senator" this is the word of the Senator who heads up the Committee that would be making recommendations and have a role in any eventual case against Assange. That's why she's being quoted and her comments reported in the first place. If it was just some random junior Senator who had nothing to do with shit, it would get ignored. Again, how about you do something crazy like actually get your damn facts straight before making comments.

its just Ironic it would take them this long plus since its not official (from our government) seeing as we already have our scapegoat for the Wikileaks (bradley manning) I don't think this will go anywhere

Uuuuh, a Senator is not our government? An investigation by Justice that your own article quotes isn't a clear signal that the US is still at least THINKING about launching some kind of prosecution of Assange and that they aren't happy simply stopping at Manning? Geez...

no word eating is needed sorry.

Well, only if you're either completely dishonest, or you can't understand the clear implications and sources you yourself even qoute.

dunno but they could give him Espionage charges aiding our enemy.

How? Please make a clear case for such. I'm tired of people like you saying what we "can" and "can't" do like your some kind of authority and then never offering any sort of evidence or legal definitions as to why. If you're such an expert, prove it, otherwise, stop speaking on what can and can't be done.

and I don't know where the moron got the idea of us giving him the death penalty the US can't give the death penalty to a foreign citizen.

Probably comes from the idea of charging him with treason, which is punishable by death. I'd have to double check if the Espionage Act would empower the court similarly.

true but it doesn't matter since the US and UK have extradiction treaties with ecuador

So? The US and UK don't actually have him charged with crimes right now. Sweden does. So treaties had with the US and the UK aren't really relevant here.

I don't knowthat seems a bit of a stretch and what she said had a ring of truth.

Funny how there's a "ring of truth" when you perceive it to support your own conclusions and beliefs...


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Tony-DarkGrave
Tony-DarkGrave
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Response to Julian Assange violates parole Aug. 11th, 2012 @ 08:30 PM Reply

well we should be getting verdict of Assange's request this week after the olympics are done.

it will be interesting to see.