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At 6/21/12 07:19 PM, Earfetish wrote: There would perhaps be a few factors that would go into the high crime rate of the US rather than the crime rate

Should've proof-read, don't know what I mean here. Maybe "'black' culture", or "compared to the crime-rate in other countries.

It might be worth saying at this point that class is perhaps a bigger issue in the UK than race and I reckon perhaps it is too in the US but they don't realise it. We'll hire a black guy, but he better talk with a 'posh' accent.

I don't mean me, I don't hire people and if I did I would try to avoid being influenced by accent. But it would be hard to be.

At 6/21/12 07:19 PM, Earfetish wrote:

Without a doubt. In the UK there are also a number of high-profile people that get paid or increase their fame by talking up racial issues.

you'll see them anywhere you go.

Well you wouldn't hire an addict for these positions and there's a good chance an addict wouldn't apply, although an occasional user might have a shot. I hear you guys do urine tests tho.

the point I was trying to make is that drug use in America is rampant, especially in the black communities. That and a lot of companies won't hire someone who tests positive for drug use. Also, if you get hurt on the job you have to take a drug test. if you come up positive, you lose your job and get stuck with the hospital bill. and yes we use urine tests here.

I know there is violent crime in the US to quite a high extent, but I have been to Eastern Europe - perhaps comparitively poor to the poorer areas of the states - and the crime is ridiculous. There would perhaps be a few factors that would go into the high crime rate of the US rather than the crime rate but I don't live there, I've only been there briefly and I don't know what it's all about really.

Yeah some countries are even worse. some countries, the poor are pretty much in line and behaving themselves much better. these tend to be welfare countries, thing is, America is also a welfare country. you can live rather well off the system and do little to no work.

I would think you might be right, if the US crime rate is really so high. In Prague the police seemed lazy and corrupt when we reported a tourist getting robbed around the corner to them so that might indicate why the Czech Republic has fewer crimes than the US.

possible. course, 3rd world countries tend to have pretty bad crime rates.

That's not entirely, what I meant - I just meant that people from poorer background and who live in poorer areas are shown to be more likely to commit crime, and black people are more likely to be in these places because their parents and grandparents are likely to have had worse life chances than white people.

true. However, I don't believe that is a valid excuse for being a criminal.

It's not true in all circumstances and I'm sure culture has a lot to do with it - like on my shores Indian and Chinese students are well-known to do especially well and statistics have backed this up.

it's their cultures. you look at many asian immigrants and see how well they're doing. is it because they're white? no. they're not European White. It's because their parents instill the need to stand on your own 2 feet and do well mentality

And all white people don't have the same background as the median white man, but the median white man is born in a better environment that is more condusive to success than the median black man, and when you're talking about statistical generalisations, this is relevant, even if personal anecdotes do not conform with this. Not all people from poor backgrounds, black or white, are going to fuck about and commit crime.

No, they're not necessarily going to become criminals. anyone with half a brain knows this. However, what's the difference between the median white and median black household? culture. all other things being equal, HOW you are raise makes the difference in how you do in life.

instead of getting high, smoking, buying expensive clothes, and other wasteful habits that keep you broke, I save my money to slowly get the nice things that I like.

No because when I became really broke I would budget Ã'£5 for a week's food because I would never do that

well you probably also have family and other things to fall back on. things i personally dont have. but that's just me. I've been dead broke, homeless, and without a scrap of food to eat before. not fun. However I just trudged on, thanked the high heavens I didn't have anyone else to suffer with me, and pulled through. you can kill a city pigeon with a long stick and cook it over a fire and survive, but city pigeon tastes horrible. Luckily they're stupid enough to get you get close to em.

It might be worth saying at this point that class is perhaps a bigger issue in the UK than race and I reckon perhaps it is too in the US but they don't realise it. We'll hire a black guy, but he better talk with a 'posh' accent.

Probably.

if you can afford $5 packs of smokes and $40-$70 articles of clothing, you must not have it THAT bad.

yeh when you're stuck for food these instantly-gratifying goods can seem out-of-reach but with a bit of cash then you're pimping.

The point I was trying to make is that a lot of ppl have their priorities mixed up. they want to live the good life without working for it and try to force it

white criminally-cultured people do share a lot of similarities with those of ethnic minorities,

they do. they fall into the same trap.

but I think social issues are the reason behind this, rather than any racial-specific reasons. As far as the trainers briefly mentioned by the OP- it's like all the fucking white people complaining about immigrants taking their jobs and being racist and shaving their heads and getting into fights -

neo nazi skinheads? very small minority of whites. they do get a lot of attention though.

The only machinery I use is a computer and I don't get high at work. But it's a good tangenital point that if I got injured driving a forklift (which I would never do), residual cannabis in my bloodstream would impact my chances of getting compensation, but residual alcohol would not.

As was previously mentioned, black people are more likely to get charged and sentenced and a jail term and record for these crimes than whites. Just like men are more likely to get in trouble for crimes than women. All a load of discriminatory bullshit.

or it may have to do with more of them committing crimes. another thing is location. if you're in the inner city, committing typical inner city crimes, then yeah you're gonna get caught pretty quickly. the more successful drug dealers are the rural ones and the rural drug addicts are far less likely to get busted... that is as long as they don't make a scene and get the cops' attention.

I love a chap called Necro...

depend on whether you accept the person as a role model and try to live by their words. Problem is, a lot of ppl DO. and it's not just the rap/hip hop/what the hell ever blacks listen to either. I see the EXACT SAME THING happening in southern whites with this new age country garbage they spew out. Except for them it's not drug peddling, crime, rape, murder, etc. for them its drinking, smoking, sex, big/loud trucks, and being a typical piece of white trash. Anyone can see it if they just watch. watch people acting out stereotypes and make a note of what they listen to. it blew my mind when i first realized that a lot of today's (American anyway) pop music is about acting out stereotypes. It's almost like a form of mind control.

As far as addictive and illegal drugs are concerned, people who get hooked on heroin and crack seem to be the type that would commit suicide if they were not high all the time and are more likely to be born in the aforementioned deprived environments than people who take an opiate once or twice and don't ruin their lives on it.

But it's great. Also Cheaters is allegedly fake. But the black women on it are always crazy.

I entirely agree, and there is no excuse for harming another person without a compelling reason. I hope all this shit does not appear like I am condoning criminalityor making excuses for it. As you said and I know, you can be starving and rationing your food and you wouldn't think of stealing from a small business - perhaps cos you were brought up in an environment that told you that if you did that you were a fucking bastard.

In conclusion, my opinions as a British person are shit because class is a bigger issue here than race probably and our racial politics are inherently linked to class.

I do agree that people like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are fucking morons and I don't think any smart person can justify their idiocy.

on the other hand though I'm only basing this off of what I saw on their wikipedia pages

At 6/21/12 06:17 PM, Korriken wrote: you mean these white people? I find a eerie similar subcultural similarity....

and secondly, every good genre of music contains dirty lyrics and is cheeky and offends cultural values. Heavy metal is mainly listened to by white people and the lyrics are worse than Because I Got High.

and those people tend to be just as fucked up, just in slightly different ways.

Please go out and meet people, or better yet go to say a university campus. You obviously haven't if you believe that crap. Come to think of it in my AP classes so many people listen to rap, hell I know one kid who takes all AP classes, gets A's in all of them, still has time to play sports and is popular and guess what, he listens to rap. What music you listen to does not have any effect on your life nor does it reflect how well you're doing. This whole "rap is the reason for bad things" argument comes from people who don't like rap as a reason to voice their displeasure with it. It's rather a joke, to these people people are idiots based off of what music they listen to rather than say their academic or work achievements.

Also most of the music I listen to has obscene lyrics and it doesn't mean shit, I work 8-5 Mon-Fri and have a skilled job in an office.

*shrug* so?

It doesn't do anything basically.

Also I get high

better hope to god you don't get hurt at work.

How many people have you met that get high? Because most I've met are indistinguishable from those that don't.

and I think black people get unfairly targeted because of the laws against cannabis

you mean the same laws that land people of every race in jail when they get caught? right.

He means they commit the crimes at near same rates but black people get arrested more than white people.

At 6/22/12 02:02 PM, Warforger wrote:

Please go out and meet people...

I think I made my point poorly (big surprise, Korriken tries to make a point and screws it up. only happens every time i try it.) and need to clarify.

Listening to music is one thing. Problem is some people don't just listen to a bit of music here and there. They live the music, or try to, in some form or another.

How many people have you met that get high? Because most I've met are indistinguishable from those that don't.

plenty. They're easy to spot. Mostly because they just LOVE to bring up their marijuana smoking in casual conversation. Many others, you can tell they had if they're on something stronger than simple marijuana, it affects the body as well as the mind. certain traits tend to stand out.

He means they commit the crimes at near same rates but black people get arrested more than white people.

Wonder if that's ever actually been proven? It's easy to say that, but there seems to not be all that much proof. Either way, if blacks (a very small group compared to whites) can keep up with the vastly larger white population in criminal activity, that's still a very high percentage of their population. Sadly, the black 'leaders' of America don't do much to try and lead them away from it. When was the last time Al Sharpton gave a speech on the virtue of being drug free? Jesse Jackson? Any politician? exactly.

At 6/22/12 05:13 PM, Korriken wrote:

At 6/22/12 02:02 PM, Warforger wrote:

Please go out and meet people...

I think I made my point poorly

it's mostly because your point consists of stereotyping an entire race of people

At 6/22/12 05:38 PM, Feoric wrote:

it's mostly because your point consists of stereotyping an entire race of people

oh noes its teh evul stairiotaip! no. yo can't just hold up the Stereotype sign every time someone says something negative about a minority. am i stereotyping them all? no. Some are living stereotypes, as with any other group of people. It's like saying because the stereotype of adults living in their parents' basement playing mmorpgs all day every day is a stereotype, you better never mention that some people do indeed live in their parents' basement and play mmorpgs all day every day.

did I say all blacks are a bunch of slack jawed, fried chicken eating, baggy clothes wearing, hard core drug addicts and thieves that worship rap artists and sit around all day bitching about the systems keeping them down while they draw welfare, make bastard children blast loud music from their hooptie cadillacs that have rims that cost more than their rundown house in the projects? no. I did not.

I did not stereotype all blacks at all. What I am saying is, a large enough portion of their population are not being held down by "the man" "whitey" "god damn cracker fucking crackers" or whatever else. they're being held down by their own choices in life. yes, its hard to rise from the poor and become something. this is true. However, parents not impressing the need for a good education on kids, coupled by bad influences screws most ppl over. If only there was a way to get parents to teach their children the proper discipline. I'm lucky that my grandparents taught me the discipline needed to not get into all the things many ppl from my background fall into.

the problem is that people refuse to talk about the obvious, they wanna point to other factors because pointing out the real reason why blacks still are in the shape they're in would make too much sense. Once they learn to stop screaming "Racism!" every time they see something they don't like, and trying to hide behind their past and using it as an excuse for their low position in society, they will begin to rise up. Once their leaders stop leading them into the cesspool with the promises of "Government will help us, government will wash us clean in these waters and we will rise up and take our place in society!" and begin to speak against those who harm their society, they will begin to rise up to join everyone else.

Even the Mexicans are in a higher place than the blacks, and a big chunk of them aren't even legal.

At 6/22/12 08:19 PM, Korriken wrote:

At 6/22/12 05:38 PM, Feoric wrote:

it's mostly because your point consists of stereotyping an entire race of people

oh noes its teh evul stairiotaip! no. yo can't just hold up the Stereotype sign every time someone says something negative about a minority. am i stereotyping them all? no. Some are living stereotypes, as with any other group of people. It's like saying because the stereotype of adults living in their parents' basement playing mmorpgs all day every day is a stereotype, you better never mention that some people do indeed live in their parents' basement and play mmorpgs all day every day.

did I say all blacks are a bunch of slack jawed, fried chicken eating, baggy clothes wearing, hard core drug addicts and thieves that worship rap artists and sit around all day bitching about the systems keeping them down while they draw welfare, make bastard children blast loud music from their hooptie cadillacs that have rims that cost more than their rundown house in the projects? no. I did not.

I did not stereotype all blacks at all. What I am saying is, a large enough portion of their population are not being held down by "the man" "whitey" "god damn cracker fucking crackers" or whatever else. they're being held down by their own choices in life. yes, its hard to rise from the poor and become something. this is true. However, parents not impressing the need for a good education on kids, coupled by bad influences screws most ppl over. If only there was a way to get parents to teach their children the proper discipline. I'm lucky that my grandparents taught me the discipline needed to not get into all the things many ppl from my background fall into.

the problem is that people refuse to talk about the obvious, they wanna point to other factors because pointing out the real reason why blacks still are in the shape they're in would make too much sense. Once they learn to stop screaming "Racism!" every time they see something they don't like, and trying to hide behind their past and using it as an excuse for their low position in society, they will begin to rise up. Once their leaders stop leading them into the cesspool with the promises of "Government will help us, government will wash us clean in these waters and we will rise up and take our place in society!" and begin to speak against those who harm their society, they will begin to rise up to join everyone else.

Even the Mexicans are in a higher place than the blacks, and a big chunk of them aren't even legal.

stop acting like you're so above everyone that you claim to know exactly why people are the way they are and you know what they should and shouldnt do and how to solve extremely complex issues and what the "real" reasons are. all i see a bunch of strawman arguments and petty justification for some really ignorant opinions by saying "well the truth hurts". your arguments are about false moralizing, trying to find a way to blame the poor for the sins of the rich and come up some ridiculous scheme if only the poor person did X, Y and Z they wouldn't get trampled...so its their fault that they did. i think is honestly a cultural thing that boils down to "might makes right," like a capitalist version of nietzsche's will to power. of course, it is also terrible for many reasons, many of them practical. this isn't about me not "liking" the truth, it's just blatant prejudice. the irony is that you yourself fit another certain stereotype, but i dont think i need to say which one it is, which boils down to another issue: everyone fits into a stereotype, its just ignorant people who try to categorize people based on the rhetoric of backward xenophobes that gives it strength in the collective conscious. you're being a mouthpiece for those people. when you say things like "people dont care what the REAL reasons for poverty are" or "people REFUSE to talk about this" is just blatantly incorrect and comes across as narcissistic ego thumping on your prized "knowledge" about these issues.

At 6/22/12 05:13 PM, Korriken wrote:

At 6/22/12 02:02 PM, Warforger wrote:

Please go out and meet people...

I think I made my point poorly (big surprise, Korriken tries to make a point and screws it up. only happens every time i try it.) and need to clarify.

Listening to music is one thing. Problem is some people don't just listen to a bit of music here and there. They live the music, or try to, in some form or another.

Yah bullshit. Again there's no proof just speculation.

At 6/22/12 05:13 PM, Korriken wrote: Wonder if that's ever actually been proven? It's easy to say that, but there seems to not be all that much proof. Either way, if blacks (a very small group compared to whites) can keep up with the vastly larger white population in criminal activity, that's still a very high percentage of their population. Sadly, the black 'leaders' of America don't do much to try and lead them away from it. When was the last time Al Sharpton gave a speech on the virtue of being drug free? Jesse Jackson? Any politician? exactly.

They probably do it's just no one reports it because it's pretty fucking normal and not special for a politician or anyone to do so. Also drugs only cause so much violence because they're banned, not because say they make things inherently bad.

The problem is that you assume blacks and other minorities are in a position of equal stature to the rest of the US, and that all this is giving them an unfair advantage when this is far from the truth.

At 6/22/12 11:39 PM, Feoric wrote:

stop acting like you're so above everyone that you claim to know exactly why people are the way they are and you know what they should and shouldnt do and how to solve extremely complex issues and what the "real" reasons are.

for what reason?

...trying to find a way to blame the poor for the sins of the rich

wait what? blaming the poor... for the sins of the rich? what? who the hell brought the rich into this? so now you're trying to say it's rich peoples' fault that many people turn to crime and drugs? what the hell happened to personal responsibility?

and come up some ridiculous scheme if only the poor person did X, Y and Z they wouldn't get trampled...

so... you're telling me that hard work can't pay off, that if you're not born white and rich that you can't get anywhere in life? gotcha.

the irony is that you yourself fit another certain stereotype, but i dont think i need to say which one it is

go ahead. say it. enlighten this 'ignorant' 'white person'. go ahead, call me racist. I'll show you my facebook page Note the makeup of my friends list. and yes, I am a brony. if you don't like it, you can kiss my cracker ass.

which boils down to another issue: everyone fits into a stereotype,

depends on how deep you take stereotypes. there's a stereotype for every single possible human feature.

its just ignorant people who try to categorize people based on the rhetoric of backward xenophobes

so I'm scared of everything. gotcha. Has nothing to do with me seeing things differently. Because I believe that the glorification of drugs violence, etc and subsequent use is ruining a society I'm terrified of everything. your logic could win gold at an Olympic Acrobatic event. congratulations, your logic is on par with this guy who is apparently the real POTUS with 5 billion+ votes.

that gives it strength in the collective conscious. you're being a mouthpiece for those people. when you say things like "people dont care what the REAL reasons for poverty are" or "people REFUSE to talk about this" is just blatantly incorrect and comes across as narcissistic ego thumping on your prized "knowledge" about these issues.

or you can wear the progressive blindfold and simply repeat that I'm ignorant because I disagree with you. Seems to be a common theme.

At 6/23/12 01:11 AM, Warforger wrote:

They probably do it's just no one reports it because it's pretty fucking normal and not special for a politician or anyone to do so. Also drugs only cause so much violence because they're banned, not because say they make things inherently bad.

probably do it? yeah and I probably run a marathon every morning before i go to work.
Also... you say drugs only cause violence because they're illegal. how does that explain addicts robbing people, breaking into people's homes and cars, and mugging people to get their fix? If drugs were legal you would still have addicts. Addicts need their fix and if it was legal do you think it would simply die out? no. you'd still have addicts who need their fix.

The problem is that you assume blacks and other minorities are in a position of equal stature to the rest of the US, and that all this is giving them an unfair advantage when this is far from the truth.

The problem is that you assume that I assume. the main details about a person's life is their beginning, their personal decisions, and of course the decisions of those around them. Barring being murdered, killed in a nasty accident, or seriously maimed, (and a few other possibilities I won't bother mentioning) that leaves your beginning and your personal decisions.

Man knocks up 11 different women and gets a total of 30 children and has to pay child support on them. that is his own fault for doing the obvious. This man will never be able to get anywhere in life thanks to his personal decision to have sex with 11 women and knock them all up apparently 2-3 times each.

I could go on, but what's the point? I'm just gonna get labeled "Racist" because I would dare mention that hard work pays off, keeping your system clean pays off, keeping your pants up pays off, and making overall good decisions in your life pays off. This is obviously racist ideology to think that people should be responsible with their own lives and should impress on their children the value of education and not let Spongebob Squarepants and Eminem teach children what life is about.

If that's the case, then, well, I'm a fucking Racist. I'll shave my hear and paint a swastika on head in the morning. Oh wait, no I won't because that would go against me own ideology of being responsible.

At 6/23/12 02:08 AM, Korriken wrote: for what reason?

because you clearly don't

wait what? blaming the poor... for the sins of the rich? what? who the hell brought the rich into this? so now you're trying to say it's rich peoples' fault that many people turn to crime and drugs? what the hell happened to personal responsibility?

i can go into a massive derail about the prison industrial complex and the disproportionate incarcerations of young black males but i wont, i'll leave that up to you to read about, but as far as personal responsibility, we all share responsibility in the welfare of others. here's what the gospel of matthewhad to say about this:

Then he will say to those at his left hand, 'You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' Then they also will answer, 'Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not take care of you?' Then he will answer them, 'Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

so... you're telling me that hard work can't pay off, that if you're not born white and rich that you can't get anywhere in life? gotcha.

this is your logical conclusion? this is how you summarize what i have said? you do an excellent job at finding things that aren't there and quoting things that have not been said. the core of your logic here is "hard work reduces poverty" and not "an increase in the standard of living among poor groups reduces crime".

go ahead. say it. enlighten this 'ignorant' 'white person'. go ahead, call me racist. I'll show you my facebook page Note the makeup of my friends list. and yes, I am a brony. if you don't like it, you can kiss my cracker ass.

well, thanks for the personal info, but nowhere have i called you a racist. i guess thats the work of a dirty conscious.

so I'm scared of everything. gotcha. Has nothing to do with me seeing things differently. Because I believe that the glorification of drugs violence, etc and subsequent use is ruining a society I'm terrified of everything. your logic could win gold at an Olympic Acrobatic event. congratulations, your logic is on par with this guy who is apparently the real POTUS with 5 billion+ votes.

once again, you're just completely off the rails. what does "seeing things differently" do to help your case? i can turn this around on you and say thats my entire point: you see things a different way, which is the problem here. and where on earth do you get that i'm saying that i think you're 'afraid of everything?' you must have to be defensive about the things you say a lot because there is no way in hell a normal person can interpret that as what you're making it out to be. and i love, just absolutely love, you compare an extreme japanese anarchist to the president of the united states. do you go to freerepublic by any chance?

or you can wear the progressive blindfold and simply repeat that I'm ignorant because I disagree with you. Seems to be a common theme.

let it be clear that you offered absolutely NO evidence for your claims other than a garbled collection of your own person opinions, and when you get called out for saying really ignorant shit you get hyperdefensive and start responding to things that werent even said, and calling me a "liberal" or a "progressive" as if those are some horribly offensive epitaphs.

At 6/23/12 05:20 AM, Feoric wrote:

this is your logical conclusion? this is how you summarize what i have said? you do an excellent job at finding things that aren't there and quoting things that have not been said. the core of your logic here is "hard work reduces poverty" and not "an increase in the standard of living among poor groups reduces crime".

no. I'm saying hard work can pull the ambitious individual out of poverty. Also, Poverty can never be eliminated because poverty is relative. in a world of people living in golden palaces, the man living in a silver palace is in poverty. increasing the standard of living for the poor makes them less poor, but compared to other he's still poor. I have no problem with the concept of making the poor less so, however, trying to artificially pull the poor out of poverty is like fishing in the desert for sand sharks. you can try, but ultimately you will fail. Someone will always have less than the others.

now, eliminating homelessness and hunger, that can possibly be done. But even then, personal responsibility still comes into play. feeding a man who refuses to take care of himself is a pointless effort. I can understand feeding a person who isn't capable of taking care of themselves. However, a physically and mentally capable person who refuses to take care of himself and wants to do nothing but recklessly seek pleasure... I can't justify feeding him. and If you wanna start quoting holy texts...

II Thessalonians 3:6-12, âEUoeNow we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you; Neither did we eat any manâEUTMs bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you: Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us. For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies. Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.âEU

and thus, I don't feel the need to feed a man who refuses to at least try to feed himself. by what right does a man, who refuses to work, who desires to sit at home and expect others to do for him, demand to be fed, clothed, housed, and entertained? I say take his children and let him starve.

Also, America's poor have more luxury than the middle class in some countries. I used to work at a furniture store and deliver furniture. god knows how many time I would deliver a piece of furniture to the ghetto, or a run down trailer in the middle of nowhere and find that they have a working air conditioner, cable or satellite tv, video games, computers, internet connection, and often wear gold jewelry, and they paid for the furniture with government benefits! god knows how many times I heard someone say, "I'll be back when I get my check on the 3rd"

Also, people who do this should have their government benefits taken away. There is no excuse to gamble away taxpayer money when that money is supposed to help you survive.

well, thanks for the personal info, but nowhere have i called you a racist. i guess thats the work of a dirty conscious.

Wrong. That's simply anticipating the usual outcome. You already called me ignorant, might as well go ahead and say I hate blacks too... Which I don't.

once again, you're just completely off the rails. what does "seeing things differently" do to help your case? i can turn this around on you and say thats my entire point: you see things a different way, which is the problem here.

ok so you're the grand arbiter of logic. that's just SWELL! I'll simply defer to you in all things, because, no one should ever have a differing opinion. right.

and where on earth do you get that i'm saying that i think you're 'afraid of everything?'

I was half asleep and misinterpreted Xenophobia. and no, I'm not afraid of foreigners either.

you must have to be defensive about the things you say a lot because there is no way in hell a normal person can interpret that as what you're making it out to be. and i love, just absolutely love, you compare an extreme japanese anarchist to the president of the united states. do you go to freerepublic by any chance?

no. I didn't compare him to the president at all. Watch the video, by his own logic, he's the president because the united states is the entire world he and represents everyone who isn't allowed to vote. You must not have watched the entire video if you missed that one.

let it be clear that you offered absolutely NO evidence for your claims other than a garbled collection of your own person opinions, and when you get called out for saying really ignorant shit you get hyperdefensive and start responding to things that werent even said, and calling me a "liberal" or a "progressive" as if those are some horribly offensive epitaphs.

You call me ignorant because I believe in personal responsibility and I call you a liberal for thinking hard work doesn't pay off. simple. I say hard work and personal responsibility pay off, you seem to disagree. Not a lot of conclusions can be drawn from it.

as much as i like to troll on the forums, when i rarely use them, i need to agree with you, on this subject. <3

This is mostly the fault of liberals, who have trained blacks from birth to view whites as their oppressors and the source of all their problems in life.

Anyway, there are far bigger problems to worry about, like the amount of black on white violence that occurs, and how it is entirely ignored by the media.

At 6/21/12 04:10 PM, Earfetish wrote: Also, I think that one of the reasons why blacks might be over-represented in crimes of car-jacking and murder would probably because they tend to come from poorer backgrounds and live in poorer areas than whites,

although I would reckon institutionalised racism in the police force

This is unfalsifiable and generally meaningless. If though, you mean that police are more likely to arrest blacks for coimmitting violent crimes, this is false based on victimisation suerveys.

and a feeling of being seperated from a racist society could also impact it.

What comes first though? Blacks behave a certain way and are thus unable to fit into mainstream society, or that modern-day 'outraged when they hear the n-word' americans have an irrational hatred of people based only on their skin colour and preclude them from the mainstream soceity.

This seems almost too obvious to write, but black people would be more likely to be poor because people live on inherited wealth,

This is very rare.

And if you grow up in a poorer area, then you're more likely to be influenced by criminal values, or might think there's no point to getting a boring office job, or be less likely to give a fuck, because you've been handed fewer life chances by your rich parents and have slackers and criminals as neighbours and schoolfriends. Also your parents are poor and can't afford to go on holidays or look forwards to much and might be inclined to drink and get high to numb the pain of being the working poor (I hear that).

What makes an area poor/'not-nice'? Detroit was a 'nice' place, but this has decreased as a function of black population.

As to whether Afroman's Because I Got High or Shaggy's It Wasn't Me influences black people so they're more likely to get high and have promiscuous sex and therefore have an inferior sub-culture, as was argued by the OP - don't believe it in the slightest. Firstly, white people love those songs,

And look at the revolting cultural decadnace that has ensued.

and secondly, every good genre of music contains dirty lyrics and is cheeky and offends cultural values. Heavy metal is mainly listened to by white people and the lyrics are worse than Because I Got High. Also most of the music I listen to has obscene lyrics and it doesn't mean shit, I work 8-5 Mon-Fri and have a skilled job in an office.

Have you considered the possibility that different groups of people can be influenced by music differently? And how can you possibly deny that black music has promoted gang culture among blacks?

Also I get high and I think black people get unfairly targeted because of the laws against cannabis and the fact that if you stop and search a young male from a poor background you'll be able to arrest them for having a prohibited substance on them quite a lot of the time and it will excuse you for racially profiling blacks.

From 'Arrest-proof yourself' by Dale Carson:

" [Southern 'white-trash'] are fond of the magic herb and can be seen growing their very own shipboard marijuana bushes, which they mist and fertilize lovingly. Nothing, of course, replaces beer. They consider the 24-pack and the kegger to be the most important advances in human convenience in the last century. When in need of jollification, they hie forth to roadhouses and biker bars, where misunderstandings about women sometimes require the intervention of civil authority. When their women are in need of enlightenment, they improve their ladyâEUTMs understanding with a few sharp raps to the head. Their dress code runs to jeans and T-shirts. Their hair is long or shaved off, their beards scruffy, and their skin adorned with tattoos and piercings.

Got the picture? These are petty criminals, but why arenâEUTMt more of them in jail? Because theyâEUTMre not totally clueless. Using the Cluelessness Quotient chart and the Golden Rules for comparison, letâEUTMs consider manners first. Although low on the social food chain, these characters donâEUTMt have a chip on their shoulders about race. They are less likely to act out in the presence of police. Generally they can stifle the profanity during those crucial minutes and mumble âEUoeYes, officerâEU and âEUoeNo officerâEU until the heat has passed.

Most important, they donâEUTMt adopt the outdoor lifestyle. TheyâEUTMre almost never visible walking on streets where they can be seen by cops riding around in cars. When they drive, their cars and pickups may be junkers, but theyâEUTMre street legal, so they have fewer traffic stops. They get wasted indoors, where search warrants are required, and are less likely to carry dope on their persons and in their cars. Often they grow their own marijuana, so they do not buy drugs and fall victim to police stings, undercover cops, and confidential informants. Their dress is scruffy, but T-shirts and jeans blend in better than gang colors and hip-hop gear, so they donâEUTMt get targeted as quickly by police.

Once they do get arrested, they have some resources. For time management, they generally can muster an alarm clock and a watch, and in emergencies, a calendar. They often marry their women, so they have a wife, the âEUoeold lady,âEU in addition to Mama and sisters to pay legal fees and bail bonds. When driving, they get their buzz from beer rather than marijuana. This means that if theyâEUTMre stopped and are not legally intoxicated, they will receive only a citation for driving with an open containerâEU"and not even that if they can slide the can out the rear window and into the truck bed before the cop gets close. Rednecks have some knowledge of police procedure. They know that police do not like to find guns, so they carry the all-purpose and legal knife. When they do carry guns, they are likely to have a permit. "

I speak as a British man and I have heard that blacks in the south of the US are 'different' to the ethnic minorities of the UK.

This is true.

Sorry for triple post, forgot to read this post before replying.

At 6/21/12 07:19 PM, Earfetish wrote: While I was in this situation, I was actively trying to better myself and had put myself in it for delayed gratification, which is a strikingly middle-class, progressive career-climber's trait that I would think is a part of my middle-class heritage.

Willingless to delay gratification is known as 'time preference', and has been empitically found to be lower in black children than white children (and in boys than girls).

At 6/24/12 07:14 AM, SadisticMonkey wrote:

" [Southern 'white-trash']...

You know, I live in the south, and this pretty much hits the nail on the head, except for one thing.

A large portion of Southern White Trash do have a chip on their shoulder about race... God knows how many of them are simple minded racists who act JUST LIKE the very people they hate. Many of them do the same thing that the black ganster subculture does, they just do it a little differently.

Perhaps, but its not directed at the race of police, which tend to be white. If all/most cops were black, it might be a different story.

At 6/18/12 11:36 PM, Korriken wrote: Once people begin stepping up and saying, "No it's not racist. It's stupid, it gaudy, but it's not racist." Maybe they'll learn to look twice before screaming Slavery and Racist every time they see something they don't like.

I'd imagine that most Black people, just like most white people (like me) thought these shoes were just "stupid". A few people may have called them racist (and honestly, you can kind of see where they are coming from, even if it is a bit stretched), but that doesn't mean all black people are living in a world where they are constantly looking for excuses to complain about their current social economic status.

At 6/23/12 02:27 AM, Korriken wrote:

At 6/23/12 01:11 AM, Warforger wrote:

They probably do it's just no one reports it because it's pretty fucking normal and not special for a politician or anyone to do so. Also drugs only cause so much violence because they're banned, not because say they make things inherently bad.

probably do it? yeah and I probably run a marathon every morning before i go to work.

Running a Marathon =/= Giving a speech.

Also... you say drugs only cause violence because they're illegal. how does that explain addicts robbing people, breaking into people's homes and cars, and mugging people to get their fix? If drugs were legal you would still have addicts. Addicts need their fix and if it was legal do you think it would simply die out? no. you'd still have addicts who need their fix.

If it were legal addicts would go forth and seek treatment, since it's illegal they won't because they'll get arrested thus they go on to commit crimes. It's pretty simple.

The problem is that you assume that I assume. the main details about a person's life is their beginning, their personal decisions, and of course the decisions of those around them. Barring being murdered, killed in a nasty accident, or seriously maimed, (and a few other possibilities I won't bother mentioning) that leaves your beginning and your personal decisions.

Ok?

I could go on, but what's the point? I'm just gonna get labeled "Racist" because I would dare mention that hard work pays off, keeping your system clean pays off, keeping your pants up pays off, and making overall good decisions in your life pays off. This is obviously racist ideology to think that people should be responsible with their own lives and should impress on their children the value of education and not let Spongebob Squarepants and Eminem teach children what life is about.

No you completely have it wrong. To begin with you're babbling on something completely unrelated to what was being talked about in the first place. Secondly you're just assuming things of the outside world based off of stereotypes and people who disagree with you, no actual studies nor attempt at empathy. This is why your arguments make little sense.

At 6/24/12 06:46 AM, SadisticMonkey wrote: This is mostly the fault of liberals, who have trained blacks from birth to view whites as their oppressors and the source of all their problems in life.

Hurrrrrr durr durrr DEM LIBRZZZZZ. Obviously they're the reason for all of societies problems let's just go start killing them all. Like seriously, Liberals have as much to do with this as Islamists do, like nothing at all. These people act and feel that way because they're raised in black culture and in an environment which is gave them little, asks for more and offers little opportunity or incentive to advance, not fucking Liberals. Quit blaming everything bad on Liberals, it makes you look retarded.

Anyway, there are far bigger problems to worry about, like the amount of black on white violence that occurs, and how it is entirely ignored by the media.

It's mentioned, but not actively talked about because what is there to do about it? It's like people umping off the Golden Gate Bridge, it happens alot but its rarely reported except as a statistic. Or how about the whole Rodney King debacle? Where a group of police officers were beating the shit out of a guy who was already on the ground and not even fighting back? Or how about the LAPD which imported police officers from the South where racism was more accepted into its ranks?

At 6/27/12 04:09 PM, Warforger wrote:
Running a Marathon =/= Giving a speech.

not quite sure if the point went flying over your head, or you're just being intellectually dishonest. the point is, "probably" is a pointless word. I can say I run a marathon daily before work, but since no one sees it happen, whether it happens or not is irrelevant.

If it were legal addicts would go forth and seek treatment, since it's illegal they won't because they'll get arrested thus they go on to commit crimes. It's pretty simple.

Nevermind on the last one, this is confirmed intellectual dishonesty. You don't get arrested for showing up at rehab seeking treatment. I mean seriously, you should know better.

Ok?

No you completely have it wrong. To begin with you're babbling on something completely unrelated to what was being talked about in the first place. Secondly you're just assuming things of the outside world based off of stereotypes and people who disagree with you, no actual studies nor attempt at empathy. This is why your arguments make little sense.

It's completely related. Everyone is (or at least should be) responsible for their own behavior. why is the black crime rate so high? you figure it out. You can constantly try to brush off everything I say as "stereotype", which is fine, because, frankly, I don't expect intellectual honesty from most of the people in this forum.

On second though, let's take this from another angle.

Here's a question for you. If the cops place a BMW Bicycle in a black neighborhood and wait in hiding for someone to steal it, then charge them with a felony when they steal a bike worth over $3.000. Is this racism?

At 6/27/12 02:13 PM, BUTANE wrote:

I'd imagine that most Black people, just like most white people (like me) thought these shoes were just "stupid". A few people may have called them racist (and honestly, you can kind of see where they are coming from, even if it is a bit stretched), but that doesn't mean all black people are living in a world where they are constantly looking for excuses to complain about their current social economic status.

This is true. However, look at some of the names of people who are spouting racism on them. Once the right person endorses or blasts something, sheep of all colors tend to follow suit. is this a black thing? no. it's a human thing.

however, to say these shoes are 'racist' is a massive stretch used by certain 'black leaders' to get attention. It's like attacking a man in front of a theater as a racist neocon skinhead nazi because he's wearing a WWII German soldier uniform, complete with Swastika, not realizing he's an actor for the play that will be going on tonight.

whats the point about the nazi? Apparently the shoes were a nod to My Pet Monster. But I suppose you shouldn't let the truth get in the way of a sensational story of a shoe company being racist.

At 6/27/12 04:15 PM, Warforger wrote: Hurrrrrr durr durrr DEM LIBRZZZZZ.

Do you think black people came up with the concept of "wehite privilege"? Do you think blacks were responsible for getting "black studies" or whatever victimisation calptrap courses into colleges?

It's mentioned, but not actively talked about because what is there to do about it? It's like people umping off the Golden Gate Bridge, it happens alot but its rarely reported except as a statistic.

One person, Travon Zimmerman, is killed whilst beating someone to death, and it's the biggest news story of the year. The fucking president offers his moronic two cents. Liberals decalre that blacks are under attack and that white supremicists are out in force.
meanwhile, the fact is that there is more black on white hate crime per capita than vice versa, and yet you would never hear anything about them.
Look at this. How many americans heard about this shit? Approximately none.

Or how about the whole Rodney King debacle?

You mean one of the biggest news stories of the ninties?
Wow....

At 6/27/12 05:02 PM, Korriken wrote: Here's a question for you. If the cops place a BMW Bicycle in a black neighborhood and wait in hiding for someone to steal it, then charge them with a felony when they steal a bike worth over $3.000. Is this racism?

If the cops exclusively target black neighborhoods with this kind of sting, then yes, I'd call it an excuse to arrest more black folks, because I can gar-uhn-tee that you'd get just as many bites on that bike in any poor neighborhood, no matter the racial composition, 100% white or 100% black. Poverty and poor quality of education are the common denominators.

At 6/27/12 08:54 PM, Angry-Hatter wrote: If the cops exclusively target black neighborhoods with this kind of sting, then yes, I'd call it an excuse to arrest more black folks, because I can gar-uhn-tee that you'd get just as many bites on that bike in any poor neighborhood, no matter the racial composition, 100% white or 100% black.

Nope. Controlling for income, blacks still commit more crime. The blackness of a neighbourhood has a far bigger impact on crime than its wealth.

Poverty and poor quality of education are the common denominators.

It has nothing to do with education. Blacks in schools with far higher spending generally do not better than poorer schools.

At 6/27/12 08:54 PM, Angry-Hatter wrote: because I can gar-uhn-tee that you'd get just as many bites on that bike in any poor neighborhood, no matter the racial composition, 100% white or 100% black. Poverty and poor quality of education are the common denominators.

here's the source, couldn't find it earlier.

"Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery."

"The single best indicator of violent crime levels in an area is the percentage of the population that is black and Hispanic. "

At 6/27/12 08:54 PM, Angry-Hatter wrote:

If the cops exclusively target black neighborhoods with this kind of sting, then yes, I'd call it an excuse to arrest more black folks, because I can gar-uhn-tee that you'd get just as many bites on that bike in any poor neighborhood, no matter the racial composition, 100% white or 100% black. Poverty and poor quality of education are the common denominators.

I never said it had to be exclusively black neighborhoods.

Either way, is it the fault of the person attempting to steal the bike, or the cops for putting such a temptation out there and led to their arrest?

At 6/28/12 01:05 AM, SadisticMonkey wrote: here's the source, couldn't find it earlier.

Ah yes, The Color of Crime, published under the supervision of journalist and self described "race realist", Mr Jared Taylor. Race realist, a phrase which ought to appear instantly familiar to anyone who has spent any amount of time browsing the forums of Stormfront.org where it is a very popular replacement for the more common "racist fuckhead".

In any case, the Color of Crime has received heaps of criticism by countless experts for it's methodology and it's conclusions ever since it was first published in 1999, including the Southern Poverty Law Center which writes that;

In the end, it is simply poor analysis to claim that one factor is responsible for a phenomenon as complex as crime. Researchers have been exploring the causes of crime for decades, and there is wide agreement that there is no answer as monolithic as that which Taylor offers: race, and specifically the black race.

...

As social science, The Color of Crime fails the test.

Link.

At 6/28/12 01:10 AM, Korriken wrote: I never said it had to be exclusively black neighborhoods.

Well, all you asked was if it would be racist to do such a sting in a black neighborhood. Without any further qualifying statements about the sting, how would anyone be able to conclude that you meant that the sting would be performed in neighborhoods other than that "black" one? If it's a sting specifically targeting a black neighborhood then it is by definition a racially motivated sting. If it is several stings that target no demographic in particular, but is based on things such as high rates of theft, then it's obviously not racist.

Either way, is it the fault of the person attempting to steal the bike, or the cops for putting such a temptation out there and led to their arrest?

I'm not completely sure about what the rules say constitutes entrapment, but from your described sting I'd say there's nothing wrong with it. Anyone stupid enough to go for it is fair game.