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C++ Pawns all other Languages

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apocalypseven
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Response to C++ Pawns all other Languages Jun. 13th, 2012 @ 10:02 PM Reply

At 6/13/12 09:57 PM, Diki wrote:
At 6/13/12 09:36 PM, everette00 wrote: This statement has made today the worst day in existence on Newgrounds.
He's trolling; I wouldn't worry about it.

Stop feeding me then people.


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Wolfos
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Response to C++ Pawns all other Languages Jun. 15th, 2012 @ 04:52 PM Reply

Video game companies using it will be over pretty soon as processing power becomes less and less important. All major engines will do a form of scripting, because it improves workflow immensely (and thus decreases cost).
Say, you can build a game in 5 seconds on a laptop, you wouldn't have to build a $20k+ build farm that's actually slower and your employees won't have to wait for the game to build to continue actually developing the game.

Building engines? Yeah, that's dead already. Companies that care about money don't build their own engine because from a financial perspective, it's stupid as fuck.

everette00
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Response to C++ Pawns all other Languages Jun. 16th, 2012 @ 08:20 PM Reply

At 6/15/12 04:52 PM, Wolfos wrote: Video game companies using it will be over pretty soon as processing power becomes less and less important. All major engines will do a form of scripting, because it improves workflow immensely (and thus decreases cost).

There will always be a demand for as much performance as possible. Always. Even though Android uses Java for the main programming language (due to number of Android-powered devices and OS fracturing in the market), developers always attempt to squeeze as much performance as possible out of their code. C++ won't go anywhere. And Unreal Engine 4 is going full C++, ditching UnrealScript.

Say, you can build a game in 5 seconds on a laptop, you wouldn't have to build a $20k+ build farm that's actually slower and your employees won't have to wait for the game to build to continue actually developing the game.

While your logic of why a render or build farm is fine, it does not belong supporting an argument for scripting languages.

Building engines? Yeah, that's dead already. Companies that care about money don't build their own engine because from a financial perspective, it's stupid as fuck.

You could say the same thing about people whom build their websites from scratch. Why do that when you can get a program that allows you to simply drag-and-drop elements where you'd like them? While that is no where close financially as building a full engine, it all has to do with legal and royalty/licensing/access issues. Imagine engines going the same route as AT&T in the 80's? I could only imagine the cost of game development soaring to extremes when only three people have the keys to the keep. Are you going to argue against building custom engines then?

Oh, and the cost of engine development is high now because of the current technology. What we do in real-time now was extremely expensive in the seventies because of the technology available at that time. Same as during the shuttle launch that brought the first man into orbit around the planet; millions of dollars on technology that fits into a three dollar wrist-watch today.

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Response to C++ Pawns all other Languages Jun. 17th, 2012 @ 07:35 AM Reply

It's not all about the programming language... the programmer, too.

Minecraft is made in Java. Minetest (a remake of Minecraft) is made in C++. Minetest is much more laggier than Minecraft.

See for yourself. Download Minecraft if you do not already have it here http://www.minecraft.net/ and download Minetest here http://minetest.net/

everette00
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Response to C++ Pawns all other Languages Jun. 17th, 2012 @ 10:54 AM Reply

At 6/17/12 07:35 AM, Rawnern wrote: It's not all about the programming language... the programmer, too.

Minecraft is made in Java. Minetest (a remake of Minecraft) is made in C++. Minetest is much more laggier than Minecraft.

See for yourself. Download Minecraft if you do not already have it here http://www.minecraft.net/ and download Minetest here http://minetest.net/

It is true. I'll give you that because I totally agree. Diablo 3 runs like total crap, but there are games that run way better (resolution in Diablo 3 impacts performance way much more than other games. I can play Torchlight at max settings, resolution and all, but Diablo 3 has to be down as far as possible for anything near playable). But generally speaking, when talking about the speed of a language, we're assuming that the programmer wielding the language is pretty decent. That way, it's all about the language.

Wolfos
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Response to C++ Pawns all other Languages Jun. 17th, 2012 @ 11:14 AM Reply

At 6/16/12 08:20 PM, everette00 wrote:
At 6/15/12 04:52 PM, Wolfos wrote: Video game companies using it will be over pretty soon as processing power becomes less and less important. All major engines will do a form of scripting, because it improves workflow immensely (and thus decreases cost).
There will always be a demand for as much performance as possible.

False. In a while, the GPU will be the bottleneck for every single game on almost every computer. Do you know how slow UnrealScript is?

everette00
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Response to C++ Pawns all other Languages Jun. 17th, 2012 @ 11:39 AM Reply

At 6/17/12 11:14 AM, Wolfos wrote:
At 6/16/12 08:20 PM, everette00 wrote: There will always be a demand for as much performance as possible.
False. In a while, the GPU will be the bottleneck for every single game on almost every computer. Do you know how slow UnrealScript is?

... What? First off, stop drinking what ever it is you're drinking. There is a reason why the GPU was invented and continues to be necessity for high-end graphics. The fundamental design of the CPU prevents it from doing any high levels of 3D rendering. This is why the Intel Core i7 has an integrated graphics core to allow 3D rendering without a graphics card. Same with AMD's fusion APUs. You still aren't rendering on a logic core.

And yes, I do know how slow UnrealScript is. Why do you think UnrealEngine 4 is ditching it? What is your point here? It's contradicting your previous post.

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Response to C++ Pawns all other Languages Jun. 19th, 2012 @ 07:53 PM Reply

Hello sir.
Well, c++ obviously is a very powerful programing language, and yes is one of the most used and important languages. But!, i think c++ is not the king of kings of the programming languages...
it depends for what kind of program you want to develop... for example: java is the king of kings for game and app develop for mobile devices, i can say python is one of the kings for simple game and app develop for linux.

I say what i think, i'm not an expert programmer...

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Response to C++ Pawns all other Languages Jun. 19th, 2012 @ 07:57 PM Reply

At 6/19/12 07:53 PM, Tortoiseius wrote: stuff

Java is for homoerotics.


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everette00
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Response to C++ Pawns all other Languages Jun. 19th, 2012 @ 11:05 PM Reply

At 6/19/12 07:57 PM, apocalypseven wrote: Java is for homoerotics.

Yeah, you're real cool when you say that Java programmers are "homoerotics". Let's see you get a good job with that attitude.

apocalypseven
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Response to C++ Pawns all other Languages Jun. 20th, 2012 @ 12:14 AM Reply

At 6/19/12 11:05 PM, everette00 wrote:
At 6/19/12 07:57 PM, apocalypseven wrote: Java is for homoerotics.
Yeah, you're real cool when you say that Java programmers are "homoerotics". Let's see you get a good job with that attitude.

I want to work on Video Games and they all use C++ so it doesn't matter if I knock the other ones.


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Wolfos
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Response to C++ Pawns all other Languages Jun. 20th, 2012 @ 07:42 AM Reply

At 6/17/12 11:39 AM, everette00 wrote:
At 6/17/12 11:14 AM, Wolfos wrote:
At 6/16/12 08:20 PM, everette00 wrote: There will always be a demand for as much performance as possible.
False. In a while, the GPU will be the bottleneck for every single game on almost every computer. Do you know how slow UnrealScript is?
... What? First off, stop drinking what ever it is you're drinking. There is a reason why the GPU was invented and continues to be necessity for high-end graphics. The fundamental design of the CPU prevents it from doing any high levels of 3D rendering. This is why the Intel Core i7 has an integrated graphics core to allow 3D rendering without a graphics card. Same with AMD's fusion APUs. You still aren't rendering on a logic core.

That's my entire point. Rendering isn't done on the CPU, so the CPU isn't very important for games anymore because we don't really require more processing power for our game logic.

Rawnern
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Response to C++ Pawns all other Languages Jun. 20th, 2012 @ 08:27 AM Reply

At 6/17/12 10:54 AM, everette00 wrote: It is true. I'll give you that because I totally agree. Diablo 3 runs like total crap, but there are games that run way better (resolution in Diablo 3 impacts performance way much more than other games. I can play Torchlight at max settings, resolution and all, but Diablo 3 has to be down as far as possible for anything near playable). But generally speaking, when talking about the speed of a language, we're assuming that the programmer wielding the language is pretty decent. That way, it's all about the language.

Battlefield 3 and Crysis is programmed really well and you can also see the impact from using C++ and having great programmers. Minecraft also lags on some computers that do not lag at Battlefield and Crysis. That is because Java has to go though a virtual machine and C++ don't. Also, it's fair to say Battlefield 3 and Crysis is a huge project and the employ great programmers.

Another example Linux is much faster than Windows because loads of people programmed on the open source project and added better code. That's why I like open source.

everette00
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Response to C++ Pawns all other Languages Jun. 20th, 2012 @ 11:50 AM Reply

At 6/20/12 12:14 AM, apocalypseven wrote:
At 6/19/12 11:05 PM, everette00 wrote:
At 6/19/12 07:57 PM, apocalypseven wrote: Java is for homoerotics.
Yeah, you're real cool when you say that Java programmers are "homoerotics". Let's see you get a good job with that attitude.
I want to work on Video Games and they all use C++ so it doesn't matter if I knock the other ones.

Yet, you're using AS3 to build games on Newgrounds. Also, not every developer uses C++ for game development. iPhone can use Objective-C, Android JAVA and Indie Games C#.

everette00
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Response to C++ Pawns all other Languages Jun. 20th, 2012 @ 12:04 PM Reply

At 6/20/12 07:42 AM, Wolfos wrote: That's my entire point. Rendering isn't done on the CPU, so the CPU isn't very important for games anymore because we don't really require more processing power for our game logic.

So your argument that the GPU will be the bottleneck was aimed at the CPU? I'm not understanding what you're talking about here. Also, the CPU is going to be just as important in video games as the GPU is - the CPU will always be important in any software development. Without a CPU that can do high-yielding throughput, it becomes the bottleneck and will slow down a GPU. It won't matter how powerful or fast that GPU is, if it's stuck waiting it is going to be slowed down.

The CPU will also be very important because it allows the developers to do a lot of extra computation, be it for AI or basic object updating. Yes, GPU's are evolving, and so are the rendering techniques used to bring games closer to photo-realism. But that doesn't mean that CPUs aren't and the instructions that go with it.

everette00
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Response to C++ Pawns all other Languages Jun. 20th, 2012 @ 12:08 PM Reply

At 6/20/12 08:27 AM, Rawnern wrote: Another example Linux is much faster than Windows because loads of people programmed on the open source project and added better code. That's why I like open source.

I'm going to be a software Nazi, Linux is a kernel. But you're right, a Linux-based OS like Ubuntu or Mint run much faster than Windows. That's not only because Linux OS' are open-source and have world-class software development, but it is also because it uses less resources than Windows.

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Response to C++ Pawns all other Languages Jun. 20th, 2012 @ 06:03 PM Reply

Speaking of Linux, what the hell is that thing? Is it even a OS, its weird.


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everette00
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Response to C++ Pawns all other Languages Jun. 20th, 2012 @ 06:46 PM Reply

At 6/20/12 06:03 PM, apocalypseven wrote: Speaking of Linux, what the hell is that thing? Is it even a OS, its weird.

Nice. I've stated it before. Linux is a kernel; it's to build an OS on top of. But the idea behind Linux is used as the name for an OS based off of Linux.

everette00
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Response to C++ Pawns all other Languages Jun. 20th, 2012 @ 08:17 PM Reply

At 6/20/12 06:46 PM, everette00 wrote:
At 6/20/12 06:03 PM, apocalypseven wrote: Speaking of Linux, what the hell is that thing? Is it even a OS, its weird.
Nice. I've stated it before. Linux is a kernel; it's to build an OS on top of. But the idea behind Linux is used as the name for an OS based off of Linux.

Woops, I meant to say, "The name of the Kernel is used as the name for an OS based off of Linux." Sorry, guys.

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Response to C++ Pawns all other Languages Jun. 23rd, 2012 @ 01:05 AM Reply

At 6/20/12 08:17 PM, everette00 wrote:
Woops, I meant to say, "The name of the Kernel is used as the name for an OS based off of Linux." Sorry, guys.

That's ok! We're not angry at you!

It's true, I keep C++ in high esteem, but it's always the situation that will dictate the tools you'll be using. I will NEVER EVER use C++ in web developpement, BUT you CAN use it... (with a CGI as demonstrated here)
as you can use a gun to kill a fly...
as you can use a hammer to drive a screw.

You CAN, but it'll be rather ineficient... and full of surprises!! Every laguage deserves recognition (almost... with a special mention to brainfuck!)

In that situation, I'd rather get a fly swatter (PHP), the gun (c++) is, well... you know!

Computer has no brain. DEAL WITH IT!
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Response to C++ Pawns all other Languages Jun. 23rd, 2012 @ 02:15 PM Reply

At 6/13/12 08:52 PM, apocalypseven wrote: I'm using Actionscript 3 for the games, thanks for the tip for the conversion, but I'll use this dumbed down language for now, because if I use C++ now you thieves will jack my source code, LMAO.

This is so horrendous an attempt at trolling I'm actually surprised so many people have bitten. 8/10


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Response to C++ Pawns all other Languages Jun. 23rd, 2012 @ 02:24 PM Reply

At 6/23/12 01:05 AM, TheZaaL wrote: It's true, I keep C++ in high esteem, but it's always the situation that will dictate the tools you'll be using. I will NEVER EVER use C++ in web developpement, BUT you CAN use it... (with a CGI as demonstrated here)

Unless you lose your sane, I would never recommend you to use C++ for web development. It is too inefficiency.

You CAN, but it'll be rather ineficient... and full of surprises!! Every laguage deserves recognition (almost... with a special mention to brainfuck!)

Instead of fucking your brain with Brainfuck, why not use ASM if you want lighter and easier language? Miserable programmers are always full of surprises too. They thought they can make something that groundbreaking but instead they remake and even make things worse than the original existed prod.

It's like you say you are going to use C++ for web development when Python, Perl, Ruby and Java already doing what you want to do.

In that situation, I'd rather get a fly swatter (PHP), the gun (c++) is, well... you know!

PHP is useless once Python exists in the field. In fact Python is a dominant of almost all development fields.

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Response to C++ Pawns all other Languages Jun. 23rd, 2012 @ 03:30 PM Reply

At 6/23/12 02:24 PM, NorskeDrittsekk wrote: In fact Python is a dominant of almost all development fields.

I've never heard of that.
You actually have a source for this claim?

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Response to C++ Pawns all other Languages Jun. 24th, 2012 @ 10:14 PM Reply

At 6/23/12 03:30 PM, Diki wrote:
At 6/23/12 02:24 PM, NorskeDrittsekk wrote: In fact Python is a dominant of almost all development fields.
I've never heard of that.
You actually have a source for this claim?

Seconded. Its the opposite really. Its just a dumb-ass language to get you started with the basics of programming.


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Diki
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Response to C++ Pawns all other Languages Jun. 24th, 2012 @ 10:48 PM Reply

Never gonna give up on that blatant trolling, eh?
Keep on keepin' on, I guess.

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Response to C++ Pawns all other Languages Jun. 25th, 2012 @ 12:42 AM Reply

Not sure if trolling or just stupid.


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Diki
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Response to C++ Pawns all other Languages Jun. 25th, 2012 @ 09:22 AM Reply

He offers a biased, negative, and condescending opinion to any topic brought up in this thread that isn't C++.
Like, look at the things he's been posting:

At 6/11/12 10:33 PM, apocalypseven wrote: You can code anything in C++, even websites, websites are purposely coded in half ass languages to make them slow to keep you hooked on the websites and keep you coming back.
At 6/12/12 06:23 PM, apocalypseven wrote: YOu guys are all brainwashed, python is a piece of shit, no one even learns C++ because its too difficult for them or their too lazy.
At 6/13/12 10:05 AM, apocalypseven wrote: I think there is though, look at all the software and the different languages to use them, the best software where it be video games/airport/banks is C++.
At 6/13/12 01:26 PM, apocalypseven wrote: That is what I'm trying to say, you cannot learn these complex languages, you have to be taught by an insider, the coders are picking us off because of our high IQ
At 6/13/12 01:26 PM, apocalypseven wrote: You can just tell [that airports/banks write their software in C++], or are they using python? LOL, there whole system would crash in 2 hours if they used that weak language.
At 6/13/12 08:52 PM, apocalypseven wrote: I'm using Actionscript 3 for the games, thanks for the tip for the conversion, but I'll use this dumbed down language for now, because if I use C++ now you thieves will jack my source code, LMAO.
At 6/19/12 07:57 PM, apocalypseven wrote: Java is for homoerotics.
At 6/20/12 12:14 AM, apocalypseven wrote: I want to work on Video Games and they all use C++ so it doesn't matter if I knock the other ones.
At 6/20/12 06:03 PM, apocalypseven wrote: Speaking of Linux, what the hell is that thing? Is it even a OS, its weird.

I've been on these forums a long time, and that just screams troll to me.
However, troll or not, he's still stupid; probably a 15 year old kid or something.

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Response to C++ Pawns all other Languages Jun. 25th, 2012 @ 02:00 PM Reply

At 6/25/12 09:22 AM, Diki wrote:
However, troll or not, he's still stupid; probably a 15 year old kid or something.

I read the book C++ for DUmmies though and it made me samrt!


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Response to C++ Pawns all other Languages Jun. 26th, 2012 @ 09:01 AM Reply

At 6/26/12 08:35 AM, ClockworkSpace wrote: But that's why we have different ones, like JavaScript and XML and C#. They all have their purposes.

XML is a markup language used for storing document data; it's not really comparable to JavaScript or C#.
JSON or YAML would be good comparisons to XML.

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Response to C++ Pawns all other Languages Jun. 26th, 2012 @ 12:27 PM Reply

At 6/26/12 09:01 AM, Diki wrote: hello!

C# is garbage.


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