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BumFodder
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Response to Graphics Jul. 11th, 2012 @ 05:52 PM Reply

At 5/31/12 01:16 PM, K1LL80Y wrote: My stepdad bought some fancy shit last year and I still don't see a difference...

Maybe you should, I dont know, turn your settings up?

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Response to Graphics Jul. 11th, 2012 @ 06:20 PM Reply

If you say graphics do not matter at all then you're an idiot. Sorry, but it's a fundamental part of the game experience. Now I'm not going to go as far as to say graphics make or break a game, but I will say poor graphics can ruin a game.

When we talk about graphics in game we are talking about the user can visually perceive the world. Books use lots of words to establish imagery in your head. Better books paint clearer pictures, books that do a bad job painting a picture in your head can't draw in a reader into their world because the reader cannot imagine the characters or the setting. It's similar with games, immersion is the term that is most often used. When you're immersed in a game the games story-telling can take a breather because it doesn't have to convince you anymore.

Take the Mass Effect series, that series is pretty immersive and has pretty good graphics which led to a great game experience. An experience that would have been impacted had the graphics been horrible. That's all I have to say.


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BumFodder
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Response to Graphics Jul. 11th, 2012 @ 07:32 PM Reply

At 7/11/12 06:20 PM, Thegluestickman wrote: If you say graphics do not matter at all then you're an idiot. Sorry, but it's a fundamental part of the game experience. Now I'm not going to go as far as to say graphics make or break a game, but I will say poor graphics can ruin a game.

nah not really, I cant name one game which ruined my experience with horrible graphics. The only way the graphics would ruin my game is if they were insanely bad, like putting source games on the lowest possible settings kind of bad, and thats very very bad.

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Response to Graphics Jul. 11th, 2012 @ 07:51 PM Reply

At 7/11/12 07:32 PM, BumFodder wrote:
At 7/11/12 06:20 PM, Thegluestickman wrote: If you say graphics do not matter at all then you're an idiot. Sorry, but it's a fundamental part of the game experience. Now I'm not going to go as far as to say graphics make or break a game, but I will say poor graphics can ruin a game.
nah not really, I cant name one game which ruined my experience with horrible graphics. The only way the graphics would ruin my game is if they were insanely bad, like putting source games on the lowest possible settings kind of bad, and thats very very bad.

I guess what I wrote there was contradictory, a better choice of words would be "takes away from the experience".


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argile
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Response to Graphics Jul. 11th, 2012 @ 08:35 PM Reply

At 7/11/12 06:20 PM, Thegluestickman wrote: If you say graphics do not matter at all then you're an idiot. Sorry, but it's a fundamental part of the game experience. Now I'm not going to go as far as to say graphics make or break a game, but I will say poor graphics can ruin a game.

When we talk about graphics in game we are talking about the user can visually perceive the world. Books use lots of words to establish imagery in your head. Better books paint clearer pictures, books that do a bad job painting a picture in your head can't draw in a reader into their world because the reader cannot imagine the characters or the setting. It's similar with games, immersion is the term that is most often used. When you're immersed in a game the games story-telling can take a breather because it doesn't have to convince you anymore.

Take the Mass Effect series, that series is pretty immersive and has pretty good graphics which led to a great game experience. An experience that would have been impacted had the graphics been horrible. That's all I have to say.

Actually the story should still play a role into any medium I've seen some of those examples of summer blockbusters that are just made to look awesome but the character developement and story isn't to scream about.

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Response to Graphics Jul. 11th, 2012 @ 09:42 PM Reply

Graphics are part of the presentation (and the main part of it". I don't give a fuck if the gameplay is good, but the game is inherently bad if it's running 240p with antialiasing of smearing shit on your screen.

Good games almost always have good graphics. Legend of Zelda and shit like that have decent graphics.


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Response to Graphics Jul. 11th, 2012 @ 11:34 PM Reply

I love your post, CriticalOne, but have to say it's full of horseshit.

There is no such thing as good graphic. The graphic performance change with time. 20 years a go you wouldn't want say Space Station Oblivion on Commodore 64 is 'bad'. The game that has 'best' graphic currently is Battlefield 3 (Far Cry 3 is going to beat it soon) but within a decade it's going to be compare as shit stuff as those old Amiga game.

Only dumbfucks compare game graphics because they don't have a single clue on modern graphic computing.


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Response to Graphics Jul. 11th, 2012 @ 11:46 PM Reply

At 5/30/12 09:35 AM, K1LL80Y wrote: What the fuck seriously? Old gamers, Did any of this matter back in 1990? I'd like to know.

Yes. This happened all the fucking time. Hell it was even worse back then, especially in the SNES era. In the PS2 era every single god damn game had "super realistic graphics" slapped on the box. Anything made early 2000 was shunned automatically by 2004 because nobody wanted to play a game with shit graphics. If you wanna bitch about graphics whores go back to post PS3/Xbox360 era you asshat.

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Response to Graphics Jul. 12th, 2012 @ 11:25 AM Reply

Graphics don't matter as much as a good art direction. But, if a new game comes out aiming for a realistic look and the graphics are jagged and colors are washed out it just shows that they didn't try.


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Response to Graphics Jul. 13th, 2012 @ 02:16 AM Reply

the greatest aspects of a game is the story and good controls and is long so u have many hours to enjoy.
when it comes to fps games imo the most important thing is that the hitbox on the characters is where it should
and that u can move around the map whitout invisible walls everywere graphic has never bother me so much
as long as u see what it is u playing:)

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Response to Graphics Jul. 14th, 2012 @ 11:41 AM Reply

At 5/30/12 09:35 AM, K1LL80Y wrote: Why does everyone care so much about how a game looks rather then the gameplay and story?

I mean,I like good graphics but you shouldn't downgrade a game cause of it. It's really annoying to see people argue over something that hardly affects the game at all.

People are always saying about new fps's,"I wish it looked more like battlefield or then it'd be good."

What the fuck seriously? Old gamers, Did any of this matter back in 1990? I'd like to know.

Pushing graphics has always been a thing.

My main complaint about bad graphics is that it seems that the developer was lazy, and makes the game less appealing to me. Plus, if im paying 62 bucks for a game it should AT LEAST look beautiful, I mean, Crysis came out 5 years ago! It came out when cod 4 did, and when its been that long and mw3 still looks like cod 4...its just...horrible.


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Response to Graphics Jul. 4th, 2013 @ 12:34 PM Reply

At 7/11/12 01:14 PM, argile wrote: Graphics don't really matter to me to be honest, to pick on how the detailed a surface of rock or how it doesn't look well wrapped around on the polygons is kind of stupid to just a few small notices,the game was bought solely for the reason to be played. Just give me settings to Change the Brightness, Contrast and Gamma and maybe a little bit of anti aliasing just for the case the text looks to damn small for the resolution I chose to run it under , I'd be fine with that.

But usually I'll just keep it on High Performance setting with 16 bit color and low resolution unless it's so blurry to the sense you can't even read the text on the screen like Doom 3 so it's okay to bump anistropic filtering and anti aliasing up a little just for that sake.

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Response to Graphics Jul. 4th, 2013 @ 01:40 PM Reply

Graphics are such a huge selling point today because the largest demographic are males 8-18, who just want lots of shooting and eye candy. Everything is the same because nothing needs to be changed in order to impress them. They get spoon fed the same repackaged gruel day in and day out because they are too brain washed to know anything else, and the intelligent demographic just has to grin and bare it.
Big developers don't care about good level design, new game play mechanics, or story, because they simply don't need to. It's mostly indie developers that bring good things today.

The masses are asses.

Graphics


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Response to Graphics Jul. 4th, 2013 @ 02:49 PM Reply

To me, style rates higher than realism. People naturally like to look at pretty things, like movie special effects and paintings, so things that look bad detract from an experience. Most people would complain if they saw a movie with terrible CGI or terrible practical effects. In the same fashion, players tend to want the best looking game that they can get.

In my opinion, as long as games are forced to render 3D objects as 2D (like foliage), and as long as games have low detailed textures as well as noticeable aliasing, then graphics have not reached their highpoint. When concept artists flesh out their design, they often don't intend for jagged edges and small textures to be used. Due to hardware limitations, many games are still pretty far off from obtaining their intended design.

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Response to Graphics Jul. 4th, 2013 @ 03:07 PM Reply

At 7/4/13 01:40 PM, exudaz wrote: Big developers don't care about good level design, new game play mechanics, or story, because they simply don't need to. It's mostly indie developers that bring good things today.

The masses are asses.

Small maps are due to regenerating health. To copy what I posted on another forum... <Wall of Text>

Oldschool FPSs often featured some form of health pack as opposed to the more modern regenerative health over time. Doom being a base model of sorts, many oldschool FPSs featured large, maze-like levels with hidden weapon, ammo, and health caches. The player would be somewhat forced to find these caches to avoid running out of those necessities.

A large level without hidden caches would be an action game with the majority of its gameplay being walking. Fitting these items into the game gives the player an extra reason to explore; once the player has found the keycard/boss/exit, they still need to find more utilities to help them through the next area.

Linear levels do not usually have hidden stockpiles of items. If health packs are to be used, the game designer has to put them out in the open. They are then given two options -
1) Put the health packs close to each other
2) Space the health packs very far apart

If option 1) is taken, difficulty is lost and must be balanced by adding more player damage. More player damage can actually lessen the need for health kits because the player dies too fast regardless of whether or not they take the health pack; more player damage often leads to the player feeling as though they were cheated.

If option 2) is taken, the difficulty feels cheapened due to the player being required to make near flawless runs without being hit; the game becomes a series of checkpoints with health kits marking each piece. The player would need to be given a larger health bar to combat the rarity of health kits which does not fix the elongated checkpoint system. Giving the player more health also removes tension from earlier pieces of the level when they have near invincibility thanks to a large pool of health.

Linear level design creates a much harder to balance health system if health restorative items are being used. The alternative is to have the player's health regenerate automatically after a set amount of time has expired. In response, areas and mechanics must be implemented to allow the system to work - walls and cover mechanics are often introduced to give the player a way to wait out their health regeneration.

The same reasoning applies to weapons and ammo in linear level design. With nowhere to hide them, the game either has the player picking up literal tons of ammo and weaponry, or the weapons and ammo are extremely scarce leaving the player without proper supplies. To counteract those situations, a limit on the amount of weapons forces the player to choose a handful of weapons (often 2) that they feel comfortably with. Adding a limit to the weapons also limits the ammo that the player has thus creating a much more balanced experience.

To fully summarize:
-Large levels with nothing in them is often boring, so they are usually filled with something that the player needs thus forcing exploration.
-Linear levels do not require as much exploration, so the player is given necessities as needed.
-To limit the player from having too much, limits to what the player can carry are included.

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Response to Graphics Jul. 4th, 2013 @ 04:07 PM Reply

I guess I understand appreciation for graphics - it's great to see how our technology has improved over the years and how hardware has managed to support the use of more detailed visuals in video games. It's impressive. However, I do agree that graphics shouldn't really influence your view on a video game - some games look beautiful and may play like shit and some games look like shit but play beautifully.

It is very pleasing though to see a game that ages very well. For me, Legend Of Zelda: Windwaker still looks absolutely stunning - I've always loved the cel-shaded aesthetic of that game and I still believe it pulls it off a lot better than many games that have tried. Okami is another one - clearly influenced in aesthetic by traditional Japanese paintings, the game looks exactly like one and has some charming details to its visuals. I can't help but admire a game when it has such a unique and distinctive aesthetic, but again, I do agree that it shouldn't determine your view on a video game (fortunately, I also love both of those games because in my opinion they play wonderfully and are full of whimsy, perfect for escapism).


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Response to Graphics Jul. 4th, 2013 @ 06:00 PM Reply

Not in a particular mood to spill out two thousand words about my feelings on this subject, so I'll just say, graphics are a medium to compliment the story/music/dialogue and are NOT the focal point. Games with creative artistic direction (highly detailed 2D sprites/Vanillaware games/Wind Waker/Mirrors Edge/Team Ico games/Etc) age well because they are timeless in presentation.

The industry will and in some aspects has already hit a wall with the limits that processors and graphic cards can be upgraded without infringing ridiculous costs to the consumer.

In some ways I feel people who's primary concern is "L33T 1080p graphix" are the same who crave piles of soulless products to be shoved down their throat. I buy an item when I'm convinced the developer who created it had something they wished to share with the world; it's design and existence is NOT merely to be sold for profit.


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Response to Graphics Jul. 4th, 2013 @ 06:55 PM Reply

At 7/4/13 03:07 PM, MonoBro wrote:
At 7/4/13 01:40 PM, exudaz wrote: Big developers don't care about good level design, new game play mechanics, or story, because they simply don't need to. It's mostly indie developers that bring good things today.

The masses are asses.
Small maps are due to regenerating health. To copy what I posted on another forum... <Wall of Text>

True, the whole regenerating health thing mixes it up a bit, but Modern FPS' could still have mazes, puzzles, and mix the shooting with fun platforming like past FPS' did.
Regenerating health really isn't an exuse for the level design being extremely linear.


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Response to Graphics Jul. 4th, 2013 @ 09:36 PM Reply

At 5/30/12 09:35 AM, K1LL80Y wrote: Old gamers, Did any of this matter back in 1990? I'd like to know.

Not too sure about that particular year, but the entire decade has seen a huge evolution in graphics from 8-bit, to 16-bit, to 32-bit. And from pixellated 3D (Wolfenstein, Doom), to shaded polygon 3D (Quake), to near-photorealistic 3D (Quake 3 Arena, Unreal) by the end of the decade.

Just about every kid gamer who grew up in the '90s would get excited about the latest evolution in graphics.

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Response to Graphics Jul. 8th, 2013 @ 11:43 AM Reply

I don't give a rats ass about graphics if the gameplay is good.

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Response to Graphics Jul. 8th, 2013 @ 12:36 PM Reply

I can't play older games because they lack the graphics and artistic design games do today. I cannot play Ocarina of Time because it's not in it's prime. I like to compare graphics to a person, if a woman is really attractive I'm definitely more inclined to have it with her, but if she's a bitch and doesn't like anything I do I'm not going to show any interest because she's not for me. Graphics are nice in games and definetly something that catches my eye, but if it's got shitty balance issues, or map design, or just bad gameplay I'm not goning tro want to play.


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Response to Graphics Jul. 8th, 2013 @ 01:28 PM Reply

I have no idea what you're talking about K1ll, nobody I know irl judges games by their graphics, that's just a fake stereotype that NES "gamer" wanna-bes made as a defense when people prefer newer gamers like Farcry over say, Pitfall. At least that's how I look at it.


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Response to Graphics Jul. 8th, 2013 @ 01:35 PM Reply

At 5/30/12 09:35 AM, K1LL80Y wrote: I mean,I like good graphics but you shouldn't downgrade a game cause of it. It's really annoying to see people argue over something that hardly affects the game at all.

Exactly. Remember the transition between the original PlayStation and the PS2? Yeah, of course, people were stunned by the graphical fidelity the PS2 had at that time, but what impressed them even more was the originality the new IP's Sony came up with had. With ICO as a prime example: the game looked great, naturally, but fans of that game simply know that the real strength of that game lies deep within the unique atmosphere and story, and unseen gameplay.

That being said, I salute you, graphics whores of planet Earth.


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Response to Graphics Jul. 8th, 2013 @ 06:13 PM Reply

At 7/8/13 01:35 PM, PixelDude12345 wrote:
At 5/30/12 09:35 AM, K1LL80Y wrote: I mean,I like good graphics but you shouldn't downgrade a game cause of it. It's really annoying to see people argue over something that hardly affects the game at all.
Exactly. Remember the transition between the original PlayStation and the PS2? Yeah, of course, people were stunned by the graphical fidelity the PS2 had at that time, but what impressed them even more was the originality the new IP's Sony came up with had. With ICO as a prime example: the game looked great, naturally, but fans of that game simply know that the real strength of that game lies deep within the unique atmosphere and story, and unseen gameplay.

That being said, I salute you, graphics whores of planet Earth.

Those are really some of the things you need to notice when playing but ofcourse there's so many attempting to be "realistic" when what they're playing is not even a simulation based closely on a real event.

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Response to Graphics Jul. 11th, 2013 @ 10:14 AM Reply

At 7/4/13 02:49 PM, MonoBro wrote:
In my opinion, as long as games are forced to render 3D objects as 2D (like foliage), and as long as games have low detailed textures as well as noticeable aliasing, then graphics have not reached their highpoint. When concept artists flesh out their design, they often don't intend for jagged edges and small textures to be used. Due to hardware limitations, many games are still pretty far off from obtaining their intended design.

They're getting a little more closer to it by each generation though, to be real however how much longer will it take for artists to be able to reach the designs they've originally had in mind years ago, what would the size of the memory need to be on the Graphics card?

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Response to Graphics Jul. 11th, 2013 @ 02:51 PM Reply

At 7/11/13 10:14 AM, argile wrote: They're getting a little more closer to it by each generation though, to be real however how much longer will it take for artists to be able to reach the designs they've originally had in mind years ago, what would the size of the memory need to be on the Graphics card?

The memory size is irrelevant in comparison to the overall amount of time required for hardware to mature. I could imagine a game reaching that point two or three more console cycles from now.

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Response to Graphics Jul. 11th, 2013 @ 05:06 PM Reply

The graphics would have to be really bad to get me not to buy it.


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Response to Graphics Jul. 11th, 2013 @ 05:08 PM Reply

At 7/11/13 05:06 PM, randomperson23 wrote: The graphics would have to be really bad to get me not to buy it.

That because I care more about gameplayability and story than graphics.


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Response to Graphics Jul. 12th, 2013 @ 10:06 AM Reply

Although ( in my opinion ) Story and Gameplay is the core of a game, Graphics deals with immersion. For example, I like Morrowind better than i do Skyrim, but when I play Skyrim i feel much more immersed playing. I feel more like I actully am the Dragonborn to save Skyrim. I feel much more immersed because of the Graphics of course. Also, to answer your question about did anyone care in 1990, yes they did. Every game company and their mother was trying to get a higher bit console to help support more and more content flowing into the gaming universe.

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Response to Graphics Jul. 12th, 2013 @ 11:44 AM Reply

At 5/30/12 09:35 AM, K1LL80Y wrote: Why does everyone care so much about how a game looks rather then the gameplay and story?

I mean,I like good graphics but you shouldn't downgrade a game cause of it. It's really annoying to see people argue over something that hardly affects the game at all.

People are always saying about new fps's,"I wish it looked more like battlefield or then it'd be good."

What the fuck seriously? Old gamers, Did any of this matter back in 1990? I'd like to know.

Graphics always mattered, If your graphics are shit then you better have a fucking amazing story & great game play to save it cause I personally don't like people that work only in one area and slack on another graphics deserve just as much time as the story/game play.
Also as for the old gamer comment graphics matter then as well those games where top of the line graphics for back then we cared about them back then but more games back then well 8bit/16bit is much easier to make & easy to make it look pretty, now a days the graphic engines are much more advance and harder to use so not every game will be the prettiest but that doesn't mean they shouldn't even try.
The thing that concerns me more is games getting too cinematic I don't want more film then game"which is probably odd since I love MGS ;P "


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