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Top UK court to rule on Assange sex

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Tony-DarkGrave
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Top UK court to rule on Assange sex May. 29th, 2012 @ 06:52 PM Reply

(Reuters) - Britain's Supreme Court will rule on Wednesday on whether to allow WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange's extradition to Sweden over alleged sex crimes, the latest chapter in the saga of the self-styled Internet whistleblower and bane of Washington.

Swedish prosecutors want to question Assange over claims of rape and sexual assault made by two female former WikiLeaks volunteers, and he has been fighting a lengthy legal battle against extradition since his arrest in Britain in December 2010.

The Supreme Court will say whether it agrees with his argument that the European Arrest Warrant (EAW) under which his extradition is sought is invalid. Two lower courts have already ruled that he should be extradited.

The former computer hacker gained international prominence in 2010 when WikiLeaks began releasing secret video footage and thousands of U.S. diplomatic cables about Iraq and Afghanistan, in the largest leak of classified documents in U.S. history.

That made him a hero to anti-censorship campaigners but a menace to Washington and other governments. Assange also faced widespread criticism that he had put lives at risk by blowing the cover of sources who spoke to diplomats and intelligence agents in countries where it was dangerous to do so.

Since then, WikiLeaks has faded from the headlines due to a dearth of scoops and a blockade by credit card companies that has made donations to the site almost impossible. Assange's personal standing has been damaged by the Swedish sex case and he has lost support from most of his celebrity backers.

Since his detention, he has mostly been living under strict bail conditions at the country mansion of a wealthy supporter in eastern England. His associates say that amounts to 540 days under house arrest without charge.

Source

I say he is guilty as hell and should be extradited, then be tried in the US for Espionage. either way the Sentence will be due to deliver a 10-minute judgment at 0815 GMT Wednesday with a short explanation of how the seven judges reached their decision.

aviewaskewed
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Response to Top UK court to rule on Assange sex May. 29th, 2012 @ 07:02 PM Reply

At 5/29/12 06:52 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: I say he is guilty as hell and should be extradited,

Why? Not saying he isn't, just that I like when somebody says "he's guilty as hell" or "he's innocent as a baby" to have something solid to back it with.

then be tried in the US for Espionage.

Why do I have this feeling that this is the actual reason you think he's "guilty as hell".

either way the Sentence will be due to deliver a 10-minute judgment at 0815 GMT Wednesday with a short explanation of how the seven judges reached their decision.

Should be at least mildly interesting. Seems to me Assanage will end up irregardless as a cautionary tale to anyone else who attempts to be a whistleblower and expose governmental wrong doing in the future.


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Angry-Hatter
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Response to Top UK court to rule on Assange sex May. 29th, 2012 @ 07:31 PM Reply

I'll tell you one thing, if Assange is being extradited to Sweden, he might as well be considered to be in the custody of America. As much as I like my home country, Sweden is the bitch of the US when it comes to these kinds of international matters. The second Assange sets foot in Sweden, the DoS is going to put a fuck-ton of pressure on Swedish officials to give up Assange, and eager to please they will give him up with little resistance, and that will be the last we hear from Mr Assange.


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Camarohusky
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Response to Top UK court to rule on Assange sex May. 29th, 2012 @ 07:53 PM Reply

Very touchy issue for the UK, but it would be well within their interests to hand Assange over to Sweden.

As England is part of the EU (at least the Customs Union portion) they are risking a great deal by not following internaional agreements because the requested action doesn't line up with their law. British law is extremely different than Continental Europe's law in both procedural and substantive aspects. Because UK economic policy is far more conservative (see lasseiz-faire) than Continental Europe, the UK benefits a great deal in the economic aspects where other countries follow international agreements, even though these agreements wouldn't conform with the law of the country where the activity takes place.

In short terms, the UK risks its quid pro quo benefits with continental Europe by selectively choosing to follow its international agreements. The US is a prime example of how this concept works, but then again, the US isn't nearly as dependent on international relations as the UK is.

MultiCanimefan
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Response to Top UK court to rule on Assange sex May. 29th, 2012 @ 08:13 PM Reply

Espionage for who? Leaking documents is not espionage. At the very least it's possible endangerment of lives. Even if that's the case, he would only be responsible if the information leaked is acted upon, and whatever has happened since then is going to be very difficult to prove to be the fault of Assange unless the perpetrators directly state "Mr. Julian Assange is the reason for this attack/crime" whatever. A high-tech terrorist? Please.

Plausible deniability on his side, at least as far as Wikileaks goes.

He's on his own for that sex assault stuff, though.

Tony-DarkGrave
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Response to Top UK court to rule on Assange sex May. 29th, 2012 @ 09:08 PM Reply

At 5/29/12 08:13 PM, MultiCanimefan wrote: Espionage for who? Leaking documents is not espionage. At the very least it's possible endangerment of lives.

The DoD had to relocate 10 individuals in different countries due to the cables being released and was one of the reasons for the Tunisian Revolution. when the cables for the Tunisian government about how much corruption in the government there was (besides the fact a guy set himself on fire and pretty much kick started the whole thing)

Even if that's the case, he would only be responsible if the information leaked is acted upon, and whatever has happened since then is going to be very difficult to prove to be the fault of Assange unless the perpetrators directly state "Mr. Julian Assange is the reason for this attack/crime" whatever. A high-tech terrorist? Please.

his whole business is based on leaking shit like this it is his fault. just because he published it on the internet doesn't make him any better than Bradley Manning who gave it to him. if anything he

its like giving a suicidal person a handgun then going to court for your involvement. your guilty for some part of involvement. in this case its classified information and the idiots are Jullian Assange and Bradley Manning.

Plausible deniability on his side, at least as far as Wikileaks goes.

Hardly see above

He's on his own for that sex assault stuff, though.

oh yeah.

aviewaskewed
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Response to Top UK court to rule on Assange sex May. 30th, 2012 @ 12:28 AM Reply

At 5/29/12 09:08 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: The DoD had to relocate 10 individuals in different countries due to the cables being released and was one of the reasons for the Tunisian Revolution.

The DoD STATED that was the reason...that is different from saying they HAD to do it. Since agencies like the DoD aren't in the habit of full disclosure and essentially act on the "trust us because we're the government" principle, I'm not sure I'd use the word "HAD" here. Also I find it more then a little funny you're going to act like high ranking government officials haven't outed or endangered operatives for purely political reasons, reasons waaaaay less justifiable then Assange (Valerie Plame anyone?)

when the cables for the Tunisian government about how much corruption in the government there was (besides the fact a guy set himself on fire and pretty much kick started the whole thing)

Revolutions are a bad thing now? Outting government corruption is bad now? You went from something that certainly is questionable to something that I think most people wouldn't have a problem with. Or is it that you think it's only acceptable to see governments toppled if it's done by the US military?

his whole business is based on leaking shit like this it is his fault.

No, that doesn't cover the definition legally for espionage son. Also "business" is the wrong word. Wikileaks was staffed by volunteers and run off donations. Unless someone can prove Assange turned around and pocketed any of those donations, this was clearly not a business and not being done for profit.

just because he published it on the internet doesn't make him any better than Bradley Manning who gave it to him.

Nobody is talking morals, the law is what's being discussed. You charged him with a crime, and the response you got was someone stating he did not meet the definition of that crime.

if anything he its like giving a suicidal person a handgun then going to court for your involvement.

What? It's not like that at all. Also I fail to see how you would always go to court in the instance of your analogy. There would only be a very specific set of circumstances where that could happen, and I can think of almost no way to push criminal charges and make them stick. Your analogy sucks, and it does nothing to help your case.

your guilty for some part of involvement.

Guilty of what? Be specific! That's what the law does, and that's what you want Assange tried under. The specific LAW.

in this case its classified information and the idiots are Jullian Assange and Bradley Manning.

It just gets more and more nonsensical as it goes on...why should I expect anything less?

Hardly see above

Above is useless. Above is nonsense that you haven't proven the merits of and doesn't even really pass a surface glance test for wrongdoing. He absolutely has a plausible deniability from where I sit, as he can very easily state he put the documents out there under a belief that people had a right to know what they're government was up to...if that resulted in criminal activity or other harm, well, unfortunate but not his actual intent.

Also still waiting for you to offer some reasoning for why he's guilty of the sexual assault stuff.


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MultiCanimefan
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Response to Top UK court to rule on Assange sex May. 30th, 2012 @ 01:56 AM Reply

At 5/29/12 09:08 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote:
At 5/29/12 08:13 PM, MultiCanimefan wrote:
his whole business is based on leaking shit like this it is his fault.

It is not his fault what was leaked may or may have not been used to inspire certain actions.

its like giving a suicidal person a handgun then going to court for your involvement. your guilty for some part of involvement. in this case its classified information and the idiots are Jullian Assange and Bradley Manning.

If I knew he was suicidal, maybe. I mean, suppose a news station is broadcasting a particularly negative campaign against someone, and another person is influenced to the point where someone is killed. Is the news station at fault? After all, no one is forcing anyone to listen to anything, right? What happened to this personal responsibility everyone is so eager about, or does that disappear when it's something they don't like and an inconvenience?

Tony-DarkGrave
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Response to Top UK court to rule on Assange sex May. 30th, 2012 @ 10:50 AM Reply

At 5/30/12 08:12 AM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote:
Swing low sweet chariot.

poor Assange thought he was important, thought he was invincible. and now he's going to rot in a cell for the next 20 years because perceived power is a strong aphrodisiac and he couldn't keep Captain Winky under control.


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bismuthfeldspar
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Response to Top UK court to rule on Assange sex May. 30th, 2012 @ 11:12 AM Reply

Why does this case have anything to do with Assange's work with wikileaks or his political beliefs? It is an entirely seperate incident and should be treated as such.

Tony-DarkGrave
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Response to Top UK court to rule on Assange sex May. 30th, 2012 @ 02:12 PM Reply

At 5/30/12 11:12 AM, bismuthfeldspar wrote: Why does this case have anything to do with Assange's work with wikileaks or his political beliefs? It is an entirely seperate incident and should be treated as such.

its widely believed this is happenimg so the US can get him,

kakalxlax
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Response to Top UK court to rule on Assange sex May. 30th, 2012 @ 03:48 PM Reply

what a concidence, people who like sharing information (assange, megaupload guy, etc,etc) are getting jailed by the people who like hiding information.......................


Its only rape if you say no.

Say no to rape.

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Response to Top UK court to rule on Assange sex May. 30th, 2012 @ 04:11 PM Reply

At 5/30/12 10:50 AM, Korriken wrote: poor Assange thought he was important, thought he was invincible. and now he's going to rot in a cell for the next 20 years because perceived power is a strong aphrodisiac and he couldn't keep Captain Winky under control.

Funny...I thought this case was about whether or not he should be extradited...not actually trying his guilt or innocence of the charges brought against him...


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Camarohusky
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Response to Top UK court to rule on Assange sex May. 30th, 2012 @ 04:34 PM Reply

At 5/30/12 03:48 PM, kakalxlax wrote: what a concidence, people who like sharing information (assange, megaupload guy, etc,etc) are getting jailed by the people who like hiding information.......................

Both actively support theft. I don't know if Assange did anything more than encouraging it by disseminating it, but Megaupload essentially ran an information chop shop.

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Response to Top UK court to rule on Assange sex May. 30th, 2012 @ 06:21 PM Reply

At 5/30/12 04:34 PM, Camarohusky wrote:
At 5/30/12 03:48 PM, kakalxlax wrote: what a concidence, people who like sharing information (assange, megaupload guy, etc,etc) are getting jailed by the people who like hiding information.......................
Both actively support theft. I don't know if Assange did anything more than encouraging it by disseminating it, but Megaupload essentially ran an information chop shop.

theft is when you take away a thing from someone so after that you have it and they don`t, with information, they still have it and now you have it too, that`s not theft


Its only rape if you say no.

Say no to rape.

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Response to Top UK court to rule on Assange sex May. 30th, 2012 @ 07:50 PM Reply

At 5/30/12 06:21 PM, kakalxlax wrote: theft is when you take away a thing from someone so after that you have it and they don`t, with information, they still have it and now you have it too, that`s not theft

There's a lot more to it, such as the theft of a sale, or the theft of an earned advantage, but megaupload is a different topic.

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Response to Top UK court to rule on Assange sex May. 30th, 2012 @ 10:22 PM Reply

At 5/30/12 07:50 PM, Camarohusky wrote:
At 5/30/12 06:21 PM, kakalxlax wrote: theft is when you take away a thing from someone so after that you have it and they don`t, with information, they still have it and now you have it too, that`s not theft
There's a lot more to it, such as the theft of a sale, or the theft of an earned advantage, but megaupload is a different topic.

they dont charge for each download so again it`s not theft, anywho the point is that free information sharers are geting jailed by information hiders


Its only rape if you say no.

Say no to rape.

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Response to Top UK court to rule on Assange sex May. 31st, 2012 @ 12:18 AM Reply

At 5/30/12 10:50 AM, Korriken wrote: poor Assange thought he was important, thought he was invincible. and now he's going to rot in a cell for the next 20 years because perceived power is a strong aphrodisiac and he couldn't keep Captain Winky under control.

20 years?

The penalty for rape in Sweden ranges from 2 to 6 years, while the penalty for sexual molestation ranges from fines to 2 years, and parole is usually given after half of the sentence has been served, so even if Assange got the maximum possible penalty for the crimes he has been accused of, he will probably serve 4 years in prison at most.

The only way Assange is serving 20 years in prison is if he's extradited to the US and gets put away on some bullshit charge of espionage or something, which, hey, just might happen. So keep the dream alive, yeah?


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Response to Top UK court to rule on Assange sex May. 31st, 2012 @ 02:17 AM Reply

At 5/31/12 12:18 AM, Angry-Hatter wrote:
The penalty for rape in Sweden ranges from 2 to 6 years...

note to self: if you ever wanna go on a raping spree, go to sweden, I might even get lucky and just get deported.


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Response to Top UK court to rule on Assange sex May. 31st, 2012 @ 02:53 PM Reply

At 5/31/12 02:17 AM, Korriken wrote: note to self: if you ever wanna go on a raping spree, go to sweden, I might even get lucky and just get deported.

Also, if you ever feel like getting wrongly accused of rape, Sweden is your country. I had a gym teacher in Junior High who got was accused of raping a girl, and he lost his job over it. Came out later that the girl was making it up to get attention.

And if you ever actually have a one-night stand, make sure the girl gives written testimony in front of two impartial witnesses that she indeed wants to have sex with you, because if she changes her mind after the fact and says that you raped her, it's your word against hers buddy. The only way for a guy to win in that case is to paint the woman as a slut, so if she has an image of respectability that isn't easily tarnished, then you're fucked.

Honestly though, yeah, the penalties for rape in Sweden are pretty lenient. I mean, take the case of Hagamannen (The Haga Man), the worst serial rapist in the history of Sweden convicted in 2006 of two counts of rape, two counts of aggravated rape and attempted murder, and two counts of attempted rape of which one was of a 14 year old girl, and the guy only gets 14 years in prison, up for parole in 2015.

So while the Swedish system makes it very easy for innocent people to be charged with and convicted of rape, it also goes way too easy on actual rapists during the sentencing.


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Response to Top UK court to rule on Assange sex Jun. 10th, 2012 @ 09:39 AM Reply

The american system is just as easy for women to game. The things that make it worse are:
-Some jurisdictions have shifted the burden of proof to the accused. That's right the accused rapist has to prove consent.
-Many colleges have a special review board that consists of hopelessly biased "special" interrogaters who are told that rapists and abusers will be very logical and can defend themselves (damned if you do damned if you dont defend yourself). So if you get accused of sexual assault on campus you can kiss any chance of finishing your degree at the VERY least away.
-No punishment for false accusers even when the man in question has been in jail for over 15 years.
-No statute of limitations so any woman you screw can come back years later and accuse you.
-America puts rapists away for 25 years. Not a bad thing if the courts werent so one sided.

I know this is off topic but it isnt like our system is any better.


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Response to Top UK court to rule on Assange sex Jun. 10th, 2012 @ 11:24 AM Reply

At 6/10/12 09:39 AM, MatthewF wrote: -Some jurisdictions have shifted the burden of proof to the accused. That's right the accused rapist has to prove consent.

Fist off, this is 100% wrong. The accuser still must prove lack of consent. The thing is that it's extremely easy to do so. Just have the victim testify that he/she did not consent (which is the same in every accusation style crime). The role of the defense is to prove she's lying (which is the same in every accusation style crime).

-Many colleges have a special review board that consists of hopelessly biased "special" interrogaters who are told that rapists and abusers will be very logical and can defend themselves (damned if you do damned if you dont defend yourself). So if you get accused of sexual assault on campus you can kiss any chance of finishing your degree at the VERY least away.

I'm pretty sure only Smith College would ever use a standard like this.

-No punishment for false accusers even when the man in question has been in jail for over 15 years.

This is the only true problem. However, the bar for proving a false accusation crime would need to be extremely high as to not end up punishing women who are telling the truth but just so happen to lose in court.

-No statute of limitations so any woman you screw can come back years later and accuse you.

Actually, the only acts that I have ever seen without SOLs are acts of homicide, and many jurisdictions only leave it open to murder 1.

I know this is off topic but it isnt like our system is any better.

Rape is perhaps the most heinous crime anyone could commit (just below torture-murder) because rape itself is a form of physical and mental torture (why do you think the African generalissimos use it so much). There should be safe guards to prevent against false accusations, but with such a low percentage (40% on low estimates and 75% on high estimates) being reported, we don't need anymore barriers to justice for the victims and perpetrators of it.