At 6/28/12 08:59 AM, KeyserSozed wrote:
No, you're missing the point.
No, I'm quoting you and used your millionaires analogy to show that religion is altruistically synonymous with humanity because most religions offer reward for following it's actions. Now you're just trying to modify.
Humans cannot be truly altruistic, not religion, because as I've mentioned in almost all of my previous posts, humans are bound and limited by nature. Religion, once again, does not attempt to make humans 100% moral or truly altruistic, because it already realizes that humans are too flawed for this to be done. Religion attempts to have humans control these desires as a direct result of nature.
Wait a minute. If we go back to previous posts we find that every other species on earth is not 'truly altruistic' because it doesn't do good for goodness sake, but there are signs of morality in a verity of species (posted by you). But religion is not 'truly altruistic' because it doesn't do good for goodness sake, but there's signs of morality.
Gee Watson, looks like they're the bloody same!
What religions control these primal desires, you ask?
In nature, in order to survive, an organism needs to gain as many resources as physically possible,
I've already addressed this! Gaining resources is one thing, but if a species gains too much of a resource it will deplete. That's a reason why animals migrate, as to replenish their food supplies. But if they just kept consuming and populating, they'd eventually deplete it! I stated this in the rabbit scenario.
even if it means stealing. We see theft in nature all of the time, with parasitism and animal behavior. In nature, it is advantageous to be greedy.
This is from YOUR citation:
"Gibbons and chimpanzees with food will, in response to a gesture, share their food with others of the group. Chimpanzees will help humans and conspecifics without any reward in return."
"Mongooses support elderly, sick, or injured animals"
"Dolphins support sick or injured animals, swimming under them for hours at a time and pushing them to the surface so they can breathe"
I don't deny that greed exists, but according your link greed is not a consistent trait.
In Christianity, theft is heavily, heavily looked down upon, as it violates one of the Ten Commandments. Greed is considered to be one of the Seven Deadly Sins. Many books, such as Dante's Inferno, have emphasized the consequences that result from theft and greed.
Yep, like this gem in exodus:
"If a thief is found breaking in and is struck so that he dies, there shall be no bloodguilt for him, but if the sun has risen on him, there shall be bloodguilt for him. He shall surely pay. If he has nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft."
The bible has murder, rape, child abuse and slavery to name a few. But just in case you say that the old testament laws don't apply any more as I've heard from most who defend biblical genocide, the ten commandments are located in Exodus, the OLD testament.
One of the major beliefs in Buddhism is to control the desire for material wealth and gain. After all, one of the Four Noble Truths states that suffering is a result of attachment, especially towards worldy possessions.
Like laptops, smartphones, Ipods etc? Or the first world luxuries that are most likely crawling all over your house? Hows your central heating system?
Islam sees theft as a massive crime. There are countless stories in Islam about succumbing to to greedy desires, such as The Emperor and the Beggar
And there are massive crimes like don't make twitter posts or they'll be a facebook page demanding your death. Same as christianity, the texts are riddled with acts of brutality.
In nature, it is considered advantageous to reproduce with as many genetically able organisms as physically possible.
Then why are there several species that mate for life? Actually the link you offered in another section gave a brief mentioning about this. Although the irony is the christians have a higher rate of divorce than non-religious
Yes, some species are promiscuous, some aren't.
For some species, it does not matter if the individual is genetically able.
Yes, SOME SPECIES.
In Christianity, Lust is considered to be, once again, one of the Seven Deadly Sins. One of the Ten Commandments is "Thou shall not covet thy neighbor's wife", after all. Puritan society was entirely based off of suppression of these innate desires, entire books have been written describing this society. How many times have you heard the word "temptation"? This is one of many of these "temptations" that Christians discuss.
Yes, and the result is obvious.
Lust is heavily looked down upon in Islamic society. This is the entire reason why women who follow Islam need to cover themselves to such an extreme extent-- to avert even lustful gazes.
Because that REALLY works well, doesn't it?
Lust is Zoroastrianism is considered a vice that needs to be controlled, as well as envy and avarice.
And most of them get married at 15. But not to mention it's practically a dictatorship that Ahura Mazda controls.
In nature, it is advantageous to use violence in order to exert dominance over competitors and to eliminate competition.
The very religion you speak of above was wiped out by the achaemenid empire and eventually replaced with islam. The religions you speak of are prime examples of people fighting for resources, being violent and banging everything that moves.
Jainism vouches for non-violence with all organisms. It goes to extremes such as covering one's mouth in order to avoid accidentally swallowing a bug.
And whistles quietly if a tiger tries to eat their face.
There's a huge difference between being peaceful and defence. If I start punching your face it requires some force, regardless of how much to avoid being struck or attempting to stop me from doing it.
The point is, sin occurs in nature.
You're right it does, there are gay dolphins in the wild. So as the bible says, they must be stoned until dead.
It is advantageous to sin. The reason why we try to avoid sin is due to religion, either directly, by following a specific religion, or indirectly, as a result of culture and society's expectations, both of which have been influenced by religion through literature, art, etc. It is inevitable for humans to sin, but humans can control how often and to what lengths they sin-- and that is what religion aims to do.
All religion is apparently doing is marrying children so they're allowed to boink or murder anything that disagree's, or treat woman like shit and even the glorious ten commandments are written just above a passage that tells you how to treat a slave.
All you've managed to do is prove that nature is nebulous and religion isn't as squeaky clean as you thought it to be.