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Why capitalism won't work post 2030

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naronic
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Why capitalism won't work post 2030 May. 19th, 2012 @ 07:54 PM Reply

algorithmic storytelling
algorithmic reporting
machines in war
Computational creativity
robotic actors
algorithmic musicians
algorithmic art
algorithmic thinking
algorithmic animation
algorithmic attorneys

I'm sorry but with the ever impending perfection of computers I don't see where humans could possibly be in the work space of tomorrow. All a rich cat would have to do in the future to rake in all the dough is buy or build a machine capable of this kind of work. A future where what would otherwise be talent is computized into 1's and 0's and bought by the rich.

This future is going to happen sooner than you think as the projected technological singularity is less than 40 years away. When it does come capitalism will be an ineffective strategy of keeping economic balance in the US. America needs a new economic system, quicker than it thinks. Personally I think we need a short switch to socialism in between but that's just me.

discuss if you will.


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Response to Why capitalism won't work post 2030 May. 20th, 2012 @ 01:35 AM Reply

Automation is a concern for every economic system. The replacing of the worker with machines places a crunch on every economy that wishes to provide jobs for its workers.

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Response to Why capitalism won't work post 2030 May. 20th, 2012 @ 02:29 AM Reply

Truth be told, Capitalism has never "worked".

It has done nothing but destroy the world.


VOTE BUSH 2012

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Response to Why capitalism won't work post 2030 May. 20th, 2012 @ 07:18 AM Reply

At 5/20/12 02:29 AM, Dorkcraft wrote: Truth be told, Capitalism has never "worked".

It has done nothing but destroy the world.

So edgy.

Name 5 conflicts that are a direct result by capitalism. 5 conflicts is peanuts in the near infinite amount of wars or conflicts there's been.


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morefngdbs
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Response to Why capitalism won't work post 2030 May. 20th, 2012 @ 09:34 AM Reply

At 5/20/12 07:18 AM, Jizzlebang wrote:
At 5/20/12 02:29 AM, Dorkcraft wrote: Truth be told, Capitalism has never "worked".

It has done nothing but destroy the world.
So edgy.

Name 5 conflicts that are a direct result by capitalism. 5 conflicts is peanuts in the near infinite amount of wars or conflicts there's been.

;;;
Look it up
Since the 15th Century, the world hasn't gone more than 25 years without a war being fought somewhere.
If you go to modern history, there has been war/conflict somewhere in the world for over 100 years !

As a race we have so much to be proud of !


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Response to Why capitalism won't work post 2030 May. 20th, 2012 @ 10:22 AM Reply

At 5/20/12 09:34 AM, morefngdbs wrote: Since the 15th Century, the world hasn't gone more than 25 years without a war being fought somewhere.
If you go to modern history, there has been war/conflict somewhere in the world for over 100 years !

And this has exactly what to do with capitalism?

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Response to Why capitalism won't work post 2030 May. 20th, 2012 @ 12:23 PM Reply

I think that after automation takes over almost every job, there will be a short period of time in which fake jobs are created solely for the purpose of providing jobs. Or perhaps workers will fight to stop automation entirely (which can only be detrimental in the long run).

Then we'll have to deal with the fact that we either need less people or that we need accept the fact that the majority of people don't have to do any work at all any more. Once labor isn't a relevant resource, and all basic needs can easily be provided for everyone... the only system that would make sense is a socialistic one.

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Response to Why capitalism won't work post 2030 May. 20th, 2012 @ 02:10 PM Reply

At 5/20/12 07:18 AM, Jizzlebang wrote:

So edgy.

Name 5 conflicts that are a direct result by capitalism. 5 conflicts is peanuts in the near infinite amount of wars or conflicts there's been.

Edgy? Stop watching fox news and actually take a look at what state this world is in. The entire planet has been bent over and assfucked by capitalists.

Also, to name 5. and a few more.
World War I.
World War II.
The Gulf War.
The current conflicts in Afghanistan.
Iraq.
Countless countries that have been infiltrated and forced to give up resources to Americans, for little profit.
Vietnam.
Dozens and dozens of other countries have had their leaders assassinated, simply because they did not give us their shit.

But you're a fox news enthusiast so you'll just call me unpatriotic.


VOTE BUSH 2012

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WizMystery
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Response to Why capitalism won't work post 2030 May. 20th, 2012 @ 02:33 PM Reply

At 5/20/12 02:10 PM, Dorkcraft wrote: Also, to name 5. and a few more.
World War I.
World War II.
The Gulf War.
The current conflicts in Afghanistan.
Iraq.
Countless countries that have been infiltrated and forced to give up resources to Americans, for little profit.
Vietnam.
Dozens and dozens of other countries have had their leaders assassinated, simply because they did not give us their shit.

But you're a fox news enthusiast so you'll just call me unpatriotic.

It's kind of hard to assign capitalism as the cause of all those things - really it was the stubborn attitude of the people Democracy fostered. In fact, much of that can be traced to Nationalism and Ethnocentrism which Communism and Socialism fosters as well. For example - a common belief is that the "oil wars" are based on corporate greed that can only exist in Capitalist nations, however oil is something that even Socialist and Communist nations would be willing to fight for at all costs. You can't really attribute any modern global event to any single ideology because such situations are too complicated.

You can, however, attribute every war to unfounded polarity between these ideologies, which is what you're causing here. That's what a war is, is it not?

bismuthfeldspar
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Response to Why capitalism won't work post 2030 May. 20th, 2012 @ 08:59 PM Reply

It is physically impossible for humans to be replaced by what are essentially glorified coal guzzling steam engines, it just isn't economical, the high levels of mechanization in the 1st world are only possible due to us hogging all the fossil fuels and that will change with resource depletion. If humans will be replaced it will be by synthetic carbon based life and nanotechnoloy.

Also I fail to see why capitalism is singled out when everything else will be replaced as well. Why is it fashionable to hate on capitalism all the time? Because you watched movied like fight club and american beauty? Wow, so edgy.

Multi-national corporations will be at the forefront of this technological revolution, real technological development involves 10000s of little improvements and innovations which most people don't understand, all government does is divert resources from more productive research towards big flashy showcases which would have been achieved by the private sector a little later anyway, after more important research had been invested in.

Start worshipping capitalism harder.

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Response to Why capitalism won't work post 2030 May. 20th, 2012 @ 09:40 PM Reply

At 5/20/12 08:59 PM, bismuthfeldspar wrote: all government does is divert resources from more productive research towards big flashy showcases which [probably] have been achieved by the private sector [ ] later anyway, after more [lucrative income methods and monopolies] had been [completely depleted].

There, I fixed it for you.

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Response to Why capitalism won't work post 2030 May. 20th, 2012 @ 11:06 PM Reply

At 5/20/12 02:10 PM, Dorkcraft wrote: World War II.

Hitler was a capitalist?


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Response to Why capitalism won't work post 2030 May. 20th, 2012 @ 11:21 PM Reply

Perhaps part of me is being ignorant, but for every kind of job going obsolete, it gets replaced with another job in the process. An example can be used with the Post Offices, and people working for websites with an email feature (Google, Yahoo!, etc.). While the Post Offices are losing jobs because the demand of mail is decreasing, those who need technicians when it comes to e-mails increase.

While sometimes it can be a neutral to a positive change in job growth like when it comes to switching from mailers to technicians, sometimes it can be the opposite and will do more harm than good.


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Response to Why capitalism won't work post 2030 May. 20th, 2012 @ 11:43 PM Reply

At 5/20/12 11:21 PM, TNT wrote: Perhaps part of me is being ignorant, but for every kind of job going obsolete, it gets replaced with another job in the process.

Not exactly...

A better and much more accurate is, for every x number of jobs going obsolete in any givin field, they get replaced with 1 new job, thus creating a ratio where old jobs to new is <1 (less than one created per job lost) and often times the ratio is quite small (closer to 10-1, 100-1 or even more).

*x being variable based on the type of old job and the efficiency of the replacement.

The ratio will always be less than 1. Why the hell would ANY company replace human workers with less efficient automated work? (save the rare case where high skilled work is replaced by automation and more but overall cheaper maintenence, however, that's a perfect storm and quite rare.)

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Response to Why capitalism won't work post 2030 May. 20th, 2012 @ 11:48 PM Reply

At 5/20/12 11:21 PM, TNT wrote: Perhaps part of me is being ignorant, but for every kind of job going obsolete, it gets replaced with another job in the process. An example can be used with the Post Offices, and people working for websites with an email feature (Google, Yahoo!, etc.). While the Post Offices are losing jobs because the demand of mail is decreasing, those who need technicians when it comes to e-mails increase.

Email systems can be handled by a relatively small group of people. They provide nowhere near the number of jobs that Post Offices would. Automation and communication will steadily decrease the number of available jobs.

When my dad worked at Cisco, tech support jobs were being slowly reduced or eliminated. A server needed an upgrade, and someone from the department with an unrelated job was asked to do it. A tech guy talked him through the entire process over the phone. It was their way of making the process more efficient...

I don't see how jobs like that could possibly grow in the long run at this point, with automation and communication being what it is. All technological advances meant less labor, but I think that we're reaching the limit as far as jobs are concerned.

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Response to Why capitalism won't work post 2030 May. 21st, 2012 @ 05:41 AM Reply

answer this, who is going to fix the machines when they break or the machines that fix the machines when they break.


why am i holding a candy cane <_<

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Response to Why capitalism won't work post 2030 May. 21st, 2012 @ 05:52 AM Reply

At 5/21/12 05:41 AM, Aquilar wrote: answer this, who is going to fix the machines when they break or the machines that fix the machines when they break.

Other fixing machines that aren't broken, which will in turn be fixed when they break by the fixing machines they fixed earlier.

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Response to Why capitalism won't work post 2030 May. 21st, 2012 @ 10:56 AM Reply

At 5/20/12 11:43 PM, Camarohusky wrote:
A better and much more accurate is, for every x number of jobs going obsolete in any givin field, they get replaced with 1 new job, thus creating a ratio where old jobs to new is <1 (less than one created per job lost) and often times the ratio is

Well that seems to make sense. Sometimes the future scares me...


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Response to Why capitalism won't work post 2030 May. 21st, 2012 @ 02:47 PM Reply

At 5/20/12 10:22 AM, Camarohusky wrote:
At 5/20/12 09:34 AM, morefngdbs wrote: Since the 15th Century, the world hasn't gone more than 25 years without a war being fought somewhere.
If you go to modern history, there has been war/conflict somewhere in the world for over 100 years !
And this has exactly what to do with capitalism?

;;;;
The level of your disinformation has reached a new low.

Capitalism DRIVES THE FUCKING WAR EFFORT, you hack !

War is EXPENSIVE...it helps NO ONE, except the big busniss warmongering murderous bastards that usually start them to increase their profits.
http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/tassava.WWII

Not that it didn't help 'raise' the bar for many American families, no longer unemployed.

But unlike you Carmo, & your pro trusting the gov agenda, I don't believe the deaths of 50 million civilians & 20 million plus deluded armed forces members is a fair trade for a couple of extra dollars in the bank for some !
While millions of others paid for that withtheir lives !


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Response to Why capitalism won't work post 2030 May. 21st, 2012 @ 02:52 PM Reply

;;;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties
forgot the wiki link, for deaths in that farce .


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Response to Why capitalism won't work post 2030 May. 21st, 2012 @ 03:07 PM Reply

At 5/21/12 10:56 AM, TNT wrote: Well that seems to make sense. Sometimes the future scares me...

It hasn't hurt us too much in the past though. We have used our freed up time to pursue other productive, or liesurely, exploits thus requiring different work. My only worry is if that was just a fluke, or if we will be able to sustain that sort of job shifting indefinitely.

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Response to Why capitalism won't work post 2030 May. 21st, 2012 @ 03:16 PM Reply

At 5/21/12 02:47 PM, morefngdbs wrote: The level of your disinformation has reached a new low.

You're talking to yourself here, right?

Capitalism DRIVES THE FUCKING WAR EFFORT, you hack !

No it doesn't. The war drives the war effort. Greed, hunger for power, bigotry, and instinct drive the war. Capitalism profits off of it, yes, but no differently than any powerful class in any economic system.

War is EXPENSIVE...it helps NO ONE, except the big busniss warmongering murderous bastards that usually start them to increase their profits.

Replace the words "big business" and "profit" with the following:
Cadres - property
Landed Elite - land and booty
King - power, land, and influence
Nobles - power, booty, and influence
Dictator - Control and land
Daimyo - rice

If you think Capitalism is the only place where the powerful take advantage of the weak you are naive with at least a dash of daft.

But unlike you Carmo, & your pro trusting the gov agenda, I don't believe the deaths of 50 million civilians & 20 million plus deluded armed forces members is a fair trade for a couple of extra dollars in the bank for some !

Couple extra bucks? Actually the average income for Americans doubled from pre-war period to the post war period.

While millions of others paid for that withtheir lives !

Actually, they paid for the right to be Jewish, and handicapped, and gypsy, and Communist (sort of), and speak their mind freely, and pursue their free endeavors.

Sure some people profit off of war and seek war in order to profit more, but war is a much more complex animal than money can fuel. There is a lot more to it than dollars, and even property. The amorphous concept of power, consistent among humans of all economic proclivities, is usually the key ingredient for war. After that is bigotry, anger, vengeance, superiority/inferiority, and then maybe money.

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Response to Why capitalism won't work post 2030 May. 21st, 2012 @ 04:26 PM Reply

At 5/21/12 02:47 PM, morefngdbs wrote:
The level of your disinformation has reached a new low.

so when princes and kings wage war on each other for lands the other controls, lands in which the poor must farm just to survive, and end up losing most of their crops to lords who in turn give them to their king for the war effort, that is capitalism?

your post fu is weak.


I'm not crazy, everyone else is.

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Response to Why capitalism won't work post 2030 May. 21st, 2012 @ 09:20 PM Reply

Assuming your premice is correct and all jobs get automated than that can only be a good thing, the cost of goods will go down because your not gonna be paying someone in a 3rd world country to make it for you, just like its lower right now because the person in the 3rd world country is making it for you instead of someone here. We need to move past this idea of manuel labor jobs. If we have robots doing the manuel labor for us and if someone discoverers nuclear fusion we can all sit on our asses all day and do nothing.


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Response to Why capitalism won't work post 2030 May. 21st, 2012 @ 09:36 PM Reply

At 5/21/12 09:20 PM, notsneaky wrote: If we have robots doing the manuel labor for us and if someone discoverers nuclear fusion we can all sit on our asses all day and do nothing.

Finally, someone has brought up a valid reason why Capitalism may not be the best fit with more automation.

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Response to Why capitalism won't work post 2030 May. 21st, 2012 @ 10:54 PM Reply

At 5/21/12 02:47 PM, morefngdbs wrote: The level of your disinformation has reached a new low.

Capitalism DRIVES THE FUCKING WAR EFFORT, you hack !

Kings and warlords of Old wanting new lands and glory, Religious intent taking back the Holy land from the Heathen Muslims, Taking back the Holy Lands from the Infidel Christians. Taking back lands in the name of Father Germany after the violating the Treaty of Versailles. Soviet Russia conquering eastern europe for "Worker Liberation", Japan attacking china and the US for Resources.

not capitalism their.

But unlike you Carmo, & your pro trusting the gov agenda, I don't believe the deaths of 50 million civilians & 20 million plus deluded armed forces members is a fair trade for a couple of extra dollars in the bank for some !

and your pro- conspiracy agenda is any fucking better by far ;) there will always be loss in war. Get over it, it's the way of life and human nature.

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Response to Why capitalism won't work post 2030 May. 22nd, 2012 @ 12:52 AM Reply

At 5/21/12 09:36 PM, Camarohusky wrote:
At 5/21/12 09:20 PM, notsneaky wrote: If we have robots doing the manuel labor for us and if someone discoverers nuclear fusion we can all sit on our asses all day and do nothing.
Finally, someone has brought up a valid reason why Capitalism may not be the best fit with more automation.

Im just saying that at that point we really dont need any "ism"


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Response to Why capitalism won't work post 2030 May. 22nd, 2012 @ 01:21 AM Reply

At 5/22/12 12:52 AM, notsneaky wrote:
Finally, someone has brought up a valid reason why Capitalism may not be the best fit with more automation.
Im just saying that at that point we really dont need any "ism"

Not sure about getting rid of all isms, btu when there is not work, or so little work left to do we can no longer assign wealth to the value. In that case it would be a return to a feudal level economy where the average person has no real value to provide and the propertied elite (the equivalent of the landed elite) would have a complete monopoly on the income.

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Response to Why capitalism won't work post 2030 May. 22nd, 2012 @ 01:51 AM Reply

At 5/20/12 02:29 AM, Dorkcraft wrote: Truth be told, Capitalism has never "worked".

It has done nothing but destroy the world.

You're right. We should have stuck with feudalism. Let's see how much technological innovation we could have accomplished with a system of lords and peasants.


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