I Don't Understand the Controversy

[WeHaveFreshCookies]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/11/us/nebraska-coach-anti-gay-com ments/index.html?iref=obnetwork

There's the article. Basically, a coach at some University said that, as a Christian, he believes that homosexuality is a sin, and does not support gay marriage laws. Now, I happen to be supportive of gay marriage laws. I disagree with the coach. But I find nothing wrong with his statements. It's an opinion. I disagree with it, and so do most people I know. But it's still his opinion, and he has every right to it. So why on earth is it grounds for people to call for the university to fire him? I cannot fathom how people who scream and chant for gay rights want to squash THIS guy's right to free speech.

Maybe I'm missing something from the story, and if I am, sorry. But I'm very glad the university didn't cave to the lynch mob. I don't even think his comments deserve to be called an embarrassment. I believe that speech, no matter how unpopular, should be protected. People should respect other people's opinions, even if they don't like them.

[ih8dude]

It's about protected minority rights. Most universities have strong anti-discrimination rules in place so people working for them can't make comments against minorities, in some states that includes gays. I'm guessing this university is one of them which is cause for controversy.

[davohsaurus]

He's using his belief system and freedom of speech to aid in robbing other people of their "god" given rights.

That's the issue here.

You can have all the free speech you want, but when you talk about taking marriage away simply based on that then you're basically just giving a hate speech.

[Sensationalism]

I agree. I see nothing wrong with what this guy said or did. It's not even like he was spewing hate for no reason, he was talking about it because he was at some voting thing about it. He was one of the people speaking, he had every right to be talking about it and it's totally fine that he's all religious and is against it.

Tolerating or accepting homosexual people is great. But people who don't understand how to do it are the ones who go to far and get mad over this kind of thing.

The man is entitled to his opinion. I also disagree with his opinion but I have no negative opinions about this man or any problem that his views are different than mine. I certainly don't think he was out of line by stating them.
He also said this, which I think is, well, proof that he's a good christian and a good person regardless of not supporting gays:
"I have and will embrace every player I coach, gay or straight ... but I won't embrace a legal policy that supports a lifestyle that God calls sin," he wrote.

[o0-0o]

Not about gay marriage at all. He doesn't want people to be protected against discrimination based on sexuality.

He is okay with people getting discriminated against, totally different from what you guys are thinking.

[DoctorStrongbad]

Not really a big controversy at all.

[All-American-Badass]

My disdain for the University of Nebraska for completely unrelated reasons aside, I really don't see the problem here. I just hope the athletic director for Nebraska doesn't cave in to the PC asshats howling like monkeys at this non-problem.

[Mumbo]

Being PC is bullshit.

[shinobody]

At 5/13/12 02:36 AM, WeHaveFreshCookies wrote: There's the article. Basically, a coach at some University said that, as a Christian, he believes that homosexuality is a sin, and does not support gay marriage laws. Now, I happen to be supportive of gay marriage laws. (...) So why on earth is it grounds for people to call for the university to fire him?

Except they didn't fire him (or even wanted to fire him) and it wasn't about gay marriage, but about discrimination.
OP skims through the article, sensationalises and gets facts just plain wrong.

Isn't that like every other thread on NG that is about a news story?

[Skaren]

At 5/13/12 02:40 AM, ih8dude wrote: It's about protected minority rights. Most universities have strong anti-discrimination rules in place so people working for them can't make comments against minorities, in some states that includes gays. I'm guessing this university is one of them which is cause for controversy.

QFT, gays are considered minorities in some states, so this statement may as well have been him saying black people shouldn't marry.

[mattymetro]

At 5/13/12 02:36 AM, WeHaveFreshCookies wrote: I believe that speech, no matter how unpopular, should be protected. People should respect other people's opinions, even if they don't like them.

Correct

[MrPercie]

well, people aint going to be happy about the hole thing as everyone expects everyone to be tolerable person so when someones beliefs isnt being tolerable to others because of what they are then they see no reason why they should tolerate them.

But if hes gunna express his opinion then we can express our opinion on his opinion so if someone doesnt like what he says, they can but I wouldnt go out of your way to get him fired.

[shinobody]

At 5/13/12 10:36 AM, Skaren wrote: QFT, gays are considered minorities in some states, so this statement may as well have been him saying black people shouldn't marry.

Better. He said gay people shouldn't be protected from discrimination.
So, he might as well say "I believe it's okay if someone doesn't want a negro working for him, it's his right to choose who he hires".

[MrPercie]

At 5/13/12 10:44 AM, Mourning97 wrote: Sometimes I wish gays would just shut the fuck up.

they do when they have a cock in their mouth

but the only people who put their cock in mouths of men are gay men

[Sensationalism]

At 5/13/12 10:41 AM, Otto wrote: The problem is that his opinion is objectively intrusive into the lives of people because of something that is no fault of their own. That is fundamentally wrong.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but it should not lead to things that are unfairly cruel and obtrusive.

Yeah but he was outvoted so it doesn't matter.

[All-American-Badass]

At 5/13/12 10:43 AM, Xyphon202 wrote: People like teachers, coaches, etc, should keep their controversial opinions to themselves because their job involves them not possibly pissing off the people they are teaching or coaching.

I assure you there are many other ways that teachers/coaches can piss students/athletes off besides stating controversial opinions. Hell im sure those other ways can piss them off even more than a controversial opinion.

[kakalxlax]

people should respect other peoples opinion unless their opinions are not stupid and truth

[DeIirium]

It's because gay-rights supporters are smug as fuck about their opinions and think that anybody who doesn't condone homosexuality is an inferior being who isn't an enlightened messiah like they are.

[Emma]

At 5/13/12 02:36 AM, WeHaveFreshCookies wrote: So why on earth is it grounds for people to call for the university to fire him?

People hate it when others don't see things their way ... especially the gay-marriage crowd.

[Cootie]

Why should we care about the opinion of some ignorant coach anyways? Oh dear, one football coach doesn't like the gays... he will surely make an impact on the world with that opinion. lolololol

[Interotaku]

I don't really support gay marriage. However, a homosexual couple should have the freedom to get the same rights as a heterosexual couple in some other type of fashion.

[Ragnarokia]

At 5/13/12 02:42 AM, Sensationalism wrote: "I have and will embrace every player I coach, gay or straight ... but I won't embrace a legal policy that supports a lifestyle that God calls sin," he wrote.

As much as I am against his views, I do approve of how he says he won't let his beliefs affect his view of his players, and that he will still embrace them regardless. That is how people should be and if he keeps those views to himself while he is working it should be fine. If he begins to mention them while he is working then it would become a problem, but when behind closed doors in private people should be allowed to do whatever they like as long as it abides by the laws.

[InsertFunnyUserName]

At 5/13/12 10:41 AM, Otto wrote: The problem is that his opinion is objectively intrusive into the lives of people because of something that is no fault of their own. That is fundamentally wrong.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but it should not lead to things that are unfairly cruel and obtrusive.

Most people who are against gay marriage are of the opinion that being gay is the person's choosing, so they don't believe that is no fault of the person. They believe that the person has made an immoral choice and subsequently should not be protected by the law just as any other immoral action isn't protected (note: I'm not saying that I personally believe that homosexuality is immoral). So from their perspective, their opinions aren't intrusive into the lives of innocent people; they see their opinions as combating unethical decisions.

That's the thing about free speech. The other side views your opinion to be just as wrong as you view theirs to be, and although their opinion happens to be the subordinate one in the power structure at this moment, we have to treat it as though there is a possibility that the situation could reverse itself. We don't want to place ourselves in a position where we've a set a precedent that allows them to censor our opinion if they take the power later on.

Paradigms of morality differ from group to group, and no one has any proof to show which was is objectively correct. That means that whoever is in power has control over the moral structure of the society, and subsequently, we need a system that protects against abuses of conflicting views in regards to that. "What they're saying is immoral" is no argument at all in light of this, and so we have to make the decision to either censor everything or censor next to nothing. There really is no way to have a middle ground.

tl;dr: freedom of speech protects against shifting moral structures in a society, and therefore, the coach should be protected.

[Complete]

At 5/13/12 02:42 AM, davohsaurus wrote: He's using his belief system and freedom of speech to aid in robbing other people of their "god" given rights.

That's the issue here.

You can have all the free speech you want, but when you talk about taking marriage away simply based on that then you're basically just giving a hate speech.

You're an idiot.

[Zirocket-8]

At 5/13/12 10:32 AM, Travis wrote: Hey guys... Mitt Romney doesn't believe in gay marriage. WE SHOULD FIRE HIM FROM CANDIDACY.

Seriously, I feel like what people do is their own business and if gay people want to get married let them, but this guy is allowed to have an opinion and it's not like he is trashing them... he's just stating his opinion.

Agreed. He is not being like the WBC, where they actively offend and inject pain in other people. Here, this person is merely just stating his opinion. His stance on a subject. He didn't start discriminating people.

[DillonTaylorVA]

There's a big difference between "not supporting" gay marriage and actively trying to outlaw it based solely on your own beliefs. Everyone has the right to support or not support whatever they want. But I have a problem with people actually trying to take away another person's rights, especially when the reasoning is as trivial as a difference in opinion and it's not actually harming anything or anyone.

[Insanctuary]

Sure, we throw around opinions like peace treaties for everyone, but in the end, we are encouraging conflicting ideas. You have to acknowledge that opinions is only the black and white picture, where is the purpose of their opinion; how they came up with the opinion; what the opinion is - as a whole - and how it has a contradictively-oriented relation to other people's contradictively-oriented conflicting ideas. People don't realise it, but we are all silently getting ourselves into mental wars.

[BoredLooney]

freedom of expression and schools don't mix completely. one time I wrote on my desk. that's vandalism but the email sent to my parent also made a note of the hateful statements I wrote (nothing discriminating or racial, I just don't like school).

[orangebomb]

Whether or not you agree with his comments about gay marriage is irrelevent, the bigger issue is freedom of speech vs. anti-discrimination at the university.

Even though I don't share the same views as the coach, he still has the right to say that under the First Amendment, and it's a good thing that the University of Nebraska didn't try to fire him under the account of discrimination. Of course, I would imagine that this will blow over quickly, and everyone will forget about this when football season starts up.