Where to go from Game Maker?

[WhaleSnail]

I've been using Game Maker for about a year now (far too long to move on, I know) but I want to move on to something more advanced and challenging, preferably something that exports to .swf. I think I've gotten good enough at designing code and identifying/fixing problems in my code so it isn't so much an issue that I might need to move on to something slightly less difficult. (you can see some of my work here).

So what do I move onto now? Preferably not flash because it costs a fucktonne of cash and I have heard of other programs that export to .swf.

[nameistaken1]

http://unity3d.com/
-If you want to stick with a "game" designer

http://www.flashdevelop.org/
-If you want to go to a IDE

[WhaleSnail]

well, thanks!

[caseymacneil]

i'd suggest learning java and use eclipse or learn c++, much better than flash imo.

[4urentertainment]

At 5/7/12 06:15 PM, caseymacneil wrote: i'd suggest learning java and use eclipse or learn c++, much better than flash imo.

Better in terms of what exactly?

If we're talking about making games, then doing so in C++ (or even Java) is probably not a good idea.

Almost anything that's game-related that you can do with C++ can be done in flash, except it could take you a few weeks or even days instead of several long months. With flash or Unity, your game can easily get millions of players, and the road to monetization isn't that hard.

Whereas getting something done with C++ would leave you looking for some way to spread the game and trying to venture into the download market, which is very competitive.

Why make a game in 6 months when you could make a much better one in 4 weeks?

[Ingusmant]

Unity is your best choice IMO, but if you prefer flash don't worry you will be able to export to SWF through unity

C++ is a way more complex, better leave it for later

[Wolfos]

Unity. I'd suggest you'd start with JavaScript, then you can move to C# and eventually even to C++. All within Unity (you can use C++ to write Unity plugins).
Besides that, if you're looking for a job in the game industry, Unity is already really damn big and it's only getting bigger.

[PhilipMR]

At 5/8/12 08:48 AM, 4urentertainment wrote:

At 5/7/12 06:15 PM, caseymacneil wrote: i'd suggest learning java and use eclipse or learn c++, much better than flash imo.

Better in terms of what exactly?

If we're talking about making games, then doing so in C++ (or even Java) is probably not a good idea.

Almost anything that's game-related that you can do with C++ can be done in flash, except it could take you a few weeks or even days instead of several long months. With flash or Unity, your game can easily get millions of players, and the road to monetization isn't that hard.

Whereas getting something done with C++ would leave you looking for some way to spread the game and trying to venture into the download market, which is very competitive.

Why make a game in 6 months when you could make a much better one in 4 weeks?

This is absolutely untrue, flash games games are as the name suggests, games that run on flash, they are browser game quality, and that's that, high quality games that you will find in the stores or in some cases just the internet, are uncreatable with flash, take 3D manipulation for example, manipulating that in Flash is the hugest drag ever, and it won't ever look as good or run as fast as a retail game . As for Unity, it's based on a C++ engine, and uses Javascript and C# scripts, there's not much need for me to elaborate alot on this actually, since you are clearly not informed well, unless I'm looking at this from a completely different context, in which case, I apologize.

As for the OP, I'd say that having spent some time in Game Maker should have given you a better idea of what's going on in a game logic, if making browser games is all you wish for, then without a doubt I'd say you should give Adobe Flash a try and mess around with some actionscript and whatnot, it's definetly fun to do.
However as I said above, without having solid programming knowledge, you won't be able to create a full fledged game that you would actually be able to publish as a retail game, Flash is just not meant for that and is way to slow even if you try.
Try learning some C#, or perhaps C++ and Java if you think you're up to it, try some existing game engines, get into it, become a great programmer, and eventually create your own game engines :)

[Wolfos]

Flash can't do 3D?
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flashplayer/stage3d.html

That's how Unity's doing it, works really well.

[4urentertainment]

At 5/9/12 02:04 PM, PhilipMR wrote: This is absolutely untrue, flash games games are as the name suggests, games that run on flash, they are browser game quality, and that's that, high quality games that you will find in the stores or in some cases just the internet, are uncreatable with flash, take 3D manipulation for example, manipulating that in Flash is the hugest drag ever, and it won't ever look as good or run as fast as a retail game . As for Unity, it's based on a C++ engine, and uses Javascript and C# scripts, there's not much need for me to elaborate alot on this actually, since you are clearly not informed well, unless I'm looking at this from a completely different context, in which case, I apologize.

Sure C++ games will always be more technically advanced than flash games, but that's not what makes a great game great. Let's say you wanted to make a 2D game. Like the games VVVVV and Machinairum which are both sold on Steam. It would have been silly to make them in C++ because why spend an absurd amount of time doing stuff that's already done using some other tool? Even using frameworks in C++ still leaves a lot of work to you.

If the game you want to make can be done in game maker, then do it. This game for example was made in a game maker, and yet just look at all the accolades it has received.

It's all about using the best tool for the given job, and a lot of times I've found C++ to be redundant given I'm just an indie/hobbyist.

[PhilipMR]

At 5/9/12 04:37 PM, 4urentertainment wrote:

At 5/9/12 02:04 PM, PhilipMR wrote: This is absolutely untrue, flash games games are as the name suggests, games that run on flash, they are browser game quality, and that's that, high quality games that you will find in the stores or in some cases just the internet, are uncreatable with flash, take 3D manipulation for example, manipulating that in Flash is the hugest drag ever, and it won't ever look as good or run as fast as a retail game . As for Unity, it's based on a C++ engine, and uses Javascript and C# scripts, there's not much need for me to elaborate alot on this actually, since you are clearly not informed well, unless I'm looking at this from a completely different context, in which case, I apologize.

Sure C++ games will always be more technically advanced than flash games, but that's not what makes a great game great. Let's say you wanted to make a 2D game. Like the games VVVVV and Machinairum which are both sold on Steam. It would have been silly to make them in C++ because why spend an absurd amount of time doing stuff that's already done using some other tool? Even using frameworks in C++ still leaves a lot of work to you.

If the game you want to make can be done in game maker, then do it. This game for example was made in a game maker, and yet just look at all the accolades it has received.

It's all about using the best tool for the given job, and a lot of times I've found C++ to be redundant given I'm just an indie/hobbyist.

Well I was more aiming at the you saying that flash can do basicly anything game related that C++ can, which it simply can't, I suppose your point stands though, in the end a game isn't about the power it provides. But from what I've experienced, always being attached to someone elses license, rules and restrictments isn't the proper way to go about things, I suppose it's just a matter of how far you want to take things, kind of like you said, would you want it just to create some cheezy fan game, or would you like to produce things in a commercial industry. I myself wouldn't be happy with the title of game developer, if that would mean that I'd be dependant on someone elses effort.

@Wolfos, though I never said flash can't do 3D at all (I said it wouldn't go as smooth, which it just simply won't) I suppose that Stage 3D is a better way to achieve things, but it won't be nearly as smooth or fast, thus my point stands. Also as a note, Unity isn't "using Stage 3D for its 3D", it uses OpenGL for the 3D, though it can export to a certain format which can be rendered in browsers, that's where Stage 3D comes in, it's not the actual key technology behind Unity.

[Dippytheman]

two words: Free Trial.
I was able to use flash for about two years just using free trials on multiple machines.

here's a link to cs6 free trial: http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/tdrc/index.cfm?product=flash&lo c=en_us

[Wolfos]

At 5/10/12 12:07 AM, Dippytheman wrote: two words: Free Trial.
I was able to use flash for about two years just using free trials on multiple machines.

here's a link to cs6 free trial: http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/tdrc/index.cfm?product=flash&lo c=en_us

That's piracy.

[Dippytheman]

At 5/10/12 01:19 PM, Wolfos wrote:

At 5/10/12 12:07 AM, Dippytheman wrote: two words: Free Trial.
I was able to use flash for about two years just using free trials on multiple machines.

here's a link to cs6 free trial: http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/tdrc/index.cfm?product=flash&lo c=en_us

That's piracy.

I own it now though.

[4urentertainment]

At 5/9/12 05:30 PM, PhilipMR wrote: kind of like you said, would you want it just to create some cheezy fan game, or would you like to produce things in a commercial industry. I myself wouldn't be happy with the title of game developer, if that would mean that I'd be dependant on someone elses effort.

I know it's a bit late, but I've been meaning to reply but I kept forgetting.

I just wanted to say that I don't think the quality of the game relates that much to the tools or languages you use.

The game "To The Moon" is a game made in game maker, which makes a *lot* of other games made in the "superior" C++ language look like crap. So again it's just about picking the right tools for the job.

[arkrix]

You could check out Haxe too.

[Hoeloe]

At 5/30/12 01:16 PM, 4urentertainment wrote: I just wanted to say that I don't think the quality of the game relates that much to the tools or languages you use.

It's related to it, but is not the sole factor.

C++ is generally considered a superior platform not because it always outputs better results, but because it has the potential to output better results. C++ is a lower level language than most others used for game development. Because of this, there is greater control over how the game deals with the system (you just try doing direct memory manipulation in Game Maker). C++ also compiles directly to machine code, making it much faster to run than anything that has to run through a virtual machine such as Java or Flash.

On another note, you're not going to be developing console games with a tool like Flash, for example, because the Flash virtual machine is generally not supported on most systems, and even if it is, the virtual machine is very slow by comparison (and also filled with memory leaks).

If you're moving on from Game Maker, I recommend C# if you want to do something more professional. It's a language that's sort of the best parts of C++ and Java combined, and it's a wonderfully neat language in a lot of ways. The downside, of course, is that it's a Microsoft only language, which is problematic if you're looking at cross-platform games.