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At 5/15/12 01:47 PM, Kidradd wrote: here is a thread about his questionable background and his poor attitude.
here is a thread that shows some pretty shady "business" deals, or whatever you want to call it.

How both sides of these threads acted reflects extremely poorly on bitcoin as a whole. If they handle their business this way in any other aspects, their system is broken far beyond the fallacy that replacing one fake currency with another will change anything.

At 5/14/12 09:03 AM, Austerity wrote:

At 5/14/12 08:44 AM, matthewnealwright wrote:

At 5/10/12 06:40 PM, Austerity wrote: Someone thought of this same idea in the late 90's under a different name and it failed spectacularly.

Source?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flooz.com

You should have already known about that.

Oh I was already aware of Flooz, but you had said "same idea" which flooz is most certainly not. Flooz is a centralized company-backed store of value. Can you tell me what exactly you think is similar to Bitcoin, a decentralized public ledger?

At 5/14/12 06:33 PM, Spretznaz wrote: You again? Weren't you the guy who made like 3 alts after you got banned for this and started flooding general?

No, you must be mistaken. Since I've only ever made one account here, if it were banned, I wouldn't be able to respond to your statement.

At 5/14/12 07:22 PM, Kidradd wrote: google his name, he was even run out of the bitcoin community

Sure, you believe in the FED and your government, I can understand that you're attracted to fairy tales.

and exposed as a fraud by the somethingawful community

Source? All I'm seeing in the SA thread is a bunch of vengeful tards spreading FUD and voicing their disgust at the -way- I talked to them. Similar to what you're doing right now. Say..you wouldn't happen to be an SA goon now would you?

At 5/15/12 03:00 PM, DoctorStrongbad wrote: How would Bitcoins help anybody? They seem like another form of money. Nothing really new or exciting.

This has been covered in great depth. Bitcoins help -anyone- who is interested in sending money instantly internationally. Similar arguments for Paypal as a viable service can be used for Bitcoin. The differences begin when you think about reversals, disputes, hacked funds, etc. Bitcoin puts the security to the user and thus safe usage makes for safe keeping. Paypal puts the security in the hands of employees, which means you are at their mercy for every dollar you hold and they can take it away from you anytime they want.

This week one of the most popular services in BItcoin's history a margin-trading website "Bitcoinica" was infiltrated via an insecure email server where someone was able to reset some user passwords and dump a large amount of bitcoins into their personal wallets.

It's interesting to note that this would not have been possible if they would have been using Bitcoin's newest addition of multiple-signed keys that require both parties to agree on the transaction before it happens. Why they didn't upgrade their security is beyond me, but what is painful is that ignorance of Bitcoin from detractors will cause them to say something foolish like "See! Bitcoin is insecure and hackable!", which is basically like saying the USD is vulnerable just because a bank gets robbed.

At 5/16/12 03:11 AM, matthewnealwright wrote: This week one of the most popular services in BItcoin's history a margin-trading website "Bitcoinica" was infiltrated via an insecure email server where someone was able to reset some user passwords and dump a large amount of bitcoins into their personal wallets.

Please read your first sentence a few times. I'll come back to it.

basically like saying the USD is vulnerable just because a bank gets robbed.

Actually, no. If a secured server was hacked, then yes. This is more like the bank closing down for the night, but leaving the front door open, the vault open, and turning off the cameras and the security system, then having someone walk in take the money and leave. No legitimate business leaves personal information on an unsecured server (with the exception of Sony)

At 5/16/12 10:35 AM, Camarohusky wrote: Actually, no. If a secured server was hacked, then yes. This is more like the bank closing down for the night, but leaving the front door open, the vault open, and turning off the cameras and the security system, then having someone walk in take the money and leave. No legitimate business leaves personal information on an unsecured server (with the exception of Sony)

The server was secured. They never directly hacked the server, they actually managed to hack an email address that was listed as an admin email for the rackspace server (rackspace is actually a DC used by many fiat payment processors). This is something ALL websites on Rackspace are vulnerable to. So the server was secure, hacker's couldn't find any vulnerabilities.

The point Matthew is making is, thanks to P2SH even if the hackers break into a Bitcoin website, get root etc etc they wouldn't be able to steal any money. It would be physically impossible.

I would also like to mention all that was stolen was Bitcoinica's hot wallet, which is only a fraction of their total money, as it would be impossible for the hacker to steal the cold wallet (they were using the old fashioned hot & cold wallet way of protecting their money).

Wow, I take a few days off to concentrate on writing software... the war of two idiots continues on and on and on.

I don't think matthew and kidradd are idiots, but they are acting like it. They have both made some interesting points, but it's like watching two walls fight. Neither is actually stopping to hear what the other is saying. I don't happen to agree with kidradd's view of bitcoin and currency in general, but there have been some decent arguments made. I'm not going to address any b/c, well tl;dr...and I am lazy.

I still pose the question that no one has answered who opposes bitcoin in this forum:

How is accepting bitcoin for our artists and developers risky or a bad thing? I have two middle school kids working on a video game right now...(spoiler: new Camel Ninja Genre and don't steal their idea com'm they are 12 and 14). Anyway, they are only interested and able to accept bitcoin, because they cannot qualify for paypal or a merchant account. So why not allow bitcoin as a donation method here? Let's discuss pros and cons, uh-hmm, in a civil manner.

At 5/15/12 03:00 PM, DoctorStrongbad wrote: How would Bitcoins help anybody? They seem like another form of money. Nothing really new or exciting.

One can accept bitcoins and use them without having a PayPal or Merchant Account or even a bank account, like say a 12 year-old developing a quick html5, flash or java game on android.

At 5/16/12 05:55 PM, Spretznaz wrote: And here we go. Three threads made the same day your second one got locked

Number 1
Number 2

Interesting how both OPs signed up on the same day and talked about bitcoins exactly like you.

Xenland is a known bitcoin support, he owns some of the largest bitcoin services, he's not Matthew:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=10684

I don't know who pornaK is, but ask the mods to check IP's as I doubt Matthew is using sockpuppets.

Lol, how many times have you guys accused Matthew of using sockpuppets? He must be some guy to be able to run so many accounts, he even makes sure to login at different times and has even posted on two accounts at the same time a couple of times. He must be really good at using sockpuppets.

At 5/16/12 07:14 PM, CoinHunter wrote: I doubt Matthew is using sockpuppets.

So says the person named "CoinHunter" whose account was made three days after he started his thing here. If he's not using sock puppets, he's got a lot of buddies to come here and spam on his behalf.

At 5/16/12 07:20 PM, Camarohusky wrote: So says the person named "CoinHunter" whose account was made three days after he started his thing here. If he's not using sock puppets, he's got a lot of buddies to come here and spam on his behalf.

Read the thread. I've already gone over this a thousand times.

Also my account was made the day this thread started, I created an account here for the sole purpose of educating people about Bitcoin and defending it against all the lies that were posted in this thread.

We've asked plenty of times and I'm surprised Newgrounds mods won't check the IPs. You'll find mine is in Ireland and Matthew's is in Korea.

At 5/16/12 07:33 PM, Spretznaz wrote: So is half the NG userbase. I can probably name about 20 people who used an alt for years without being discovered. Try again, Matthew.

Again, read the earlier pages in this thread, I already went through this, I'm not Matthew,, here's a link to my bitcointalk profile (nick Blazr was taken on newgrounds so I used CoinHunter). I also signed a message using my PGP key earlier in this thread to prove I am Blazr:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=51908

I really wish a mod would come in and verify that we're all using different IP's and most of them are in different countries.

At 5/16/12 07:41 PM, CoinHunter wrote: I really wish a mod would come in and verify that we're all using different IP's and most of them are in different countries.

Why would they do that? What do they care?

At 5/16/12 08:22 PM, Camarohusky wrote: Why would they do that? What do they care?

It literally only takes a second for them to do it, usually mods will check for alts when requested on other forums (atleast the ones I use anyway). Anyways that's beside the point, there is no sock puppetry going on here and even if there was does it really matter, all we're trying to do is disprove the lies about bitcoin, I don't see the point of using sock puppets to do that.

At 5/16/12 08:45 PM, CoinHunter wrote: all we're trying to do is disprove the lies about bitcoin,

What lies? I haven't heard any lies about bitcoin. All I have seen are questions as to whether bitcoin is necessary or even serves the goal the was initially stated. Well, that and a really bad pr campaign that's serving to hurt bitcoin way more than help it.

At 5/16/12 08:48 PM, Camarohusky wrote: What lies? I haven't heard any lies about bitcoin. All I have seen are questions as to whether bitcoin is necessary or even serves the goal the was initially stated. Well, that and a really bad pr campaign that's serving to hurt bitcoin way more than help it.

:At 5/1/12 04:28 PM, bismuthfeldspar wrote:
:All the passwords can be stored on a central wildcat databank.

:Or whoever wrote the program has access to all your information.

So you need 2 gbs of memory continually running per client to check transactions and you need 6 clients to confirm a transaction.

Thats just one post I found on the first page, all of those points are complete lies and FUD and all have been disproven later in the thread.

At 5/16/12 02:01 PM, NathanGHart wrote: I don't happen to agree with kidradd's view of bitcoin and currency in general, but there have been some decent arguments made.

why? for you to not agree with something then you must be working within a certain framework of how an idea/concept/etc works or should work, etc. meaning, you must have some idea of how bitcoin currency works for you to not agree with what i have said, because if you had no idea whatsoever then there would be no room to disagree. so, what dont you agree with?

I'm not going to address any b/c, well tl;dr...and I am lazy.

well, then, i dont know what to tell you.

How is accepting bitcoin for our artists and developers risky or a bad thing?

this was answered. this is a seven page topic. it's bad because it's risky. i cant help you if you read the past 7 pages and never saw where i demonstrated this, i mean, i dont know any other languages.

So why not allow bitcoin as a donation method here?

because a) the average amateur flash maker wont be seeing any more than a few dollars; b) the people who would benefit the most would be the already well know flash makers, who already make money; there is already a way to make money off newgrounds via ads c) who would use it? what do you think the main demographic is for newgrounds? like you said, young teenage kids. they arent in the politics forum for a reason. you think they're gonna have money to donate to flash animators on a dying website? d) what is so wrong with paypal? i know what my dollar is worth today and i know what it's gonna be worth tomorrow. if you're too young to have a paypal account, chances are you shouldnt be using bitcoin to begin with.

At 5/16/12 08:48 PM, Camarohusky wrote:

:that and a really bad pr campaign that's serving to hurt bitcoin way more than help it.

I do agree things weren't done properly and Matthew's name calling & trolling isn't helping. What I want to do is answer any questions/concerns people have about Bitcoin and to educate those who have been misinformed about what Bitcoin actually is and how it actually works, as Bitcoin is actually a very secure, safe & economically sound way of storing & transferring money.

At 5/16/12 08:57 PM, CoinHunter wrote: Bitcoin is actually a very secure, safe & economically sound way of storing & transferring money.

the past 6 pages says it isnt

At 5/16/12 08:57 PM, Spretznaz wrote: You know what? There's absolutely no point arguing with this asshole. I say ignore him and leave this horrible thread to rot. He's obviously getting a sick jolly out of all this, so stop giving it to him.

Again, another person implying this is all Matthew. He musn't sleep much if he's able to post so often.

At 5/16/12 08:52 PM, Kidradd wrote:

How is accepting bitcoin for our artists and developers risky or a bad thing?

this was answered. this is a seven page topic. it's bad because it's risky.

It isn't risky. I'm assuming your referring to the previous price fluctuations. Bitcoin is/was only in its infancy, thats absolutely normal to happen during the early days of a currency due to the low trading volumes, however, since then Bitcoin has grown and also thanks to highly leveraged margin trading the price has been stable at $5 for a pretty long time.

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#tgSzm1g10zm2g25zv

Thats a pretty hard graph to see, there is a better one floating around which I will try and find. As you can see, the price has been pretty stable for a few months now. The jump in July was caused by a media frenzy & only actually last for a few hours.

At 5/16/12 09:04 PM, Kidradd wrote: the past 6 pages says it isnt

So your not going to quote anything in particular you think is important, you just want me to quote everything said about Bitcoin in the last 6 pages and disprove it all?

At 5/10/12 06:40 PM, Austerity wrote: Someone thought of this same idea in the late 90's under a different name and it failed spectacularly.

As mentioned Flooz is VERY different to Bitcoin. Bitcoin is P2P, unregulated with no backing or issuer, Flooz was more like fiat currency, but the reason it failed was because people we're using it to launder stolen money from credit cards & the fed shut it down, not because the market crashed or anything.

The fed can't ever shutdown Bitcoin as its decentralized and P2P. The technology behind Bitcoin makes it impossible for anybody to interfere with it easily. There is an attack but that involves having 51% of the hashing power of the network, which is impossible for anybody to obtain at the moment & that attack only allows the attacker to double spend the same money + the attack can be detected afterwards & ignored.

At 5/10/12 03:38 PM, RacistBassist wrote: A semi-unregulated currency that has absolutely nothing backing it whatsoever that constantly pumps more into the economy?

Its actually fully unregulated with no issuer and has no backing whatsoever.

The value of Bitcoin is determined by economics, its value comes from the demand relative to the supply of it. Indirectly the cost of mining Bitcoin also basically provides a stop-loss as anytime Bitcoin value as come near the cost of mining, miners have stopped selling their Bitcoins which brang the value back up.

The value of fiat is determined by the government (by a bunch of dudes in a room). Nobody actually knows how much USD (or any other fiat) is in circulation, so we can't know for sure how much 1 Euro is worth in gold, but we do know they print more and more every year, so even if it is backed by gold (USD hasn't been in many years) the value of it is decreasing every year (governments call it inflation).

Also, nice read for you:

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/kt-article-display-1.asp?xfile=/
data/editorial/2012/May/editorial_May33.xml&section=editoria l

At 5/4/12 01:29 AM, Kidradd wrote: really? citibank and bank of america can print money? since when? while they're at it, they might as well roll their debt over into bonds, as well!

All banks are only required to hold 10% of their deposits in fiat, the rest is lent out/invested.

Whats even worse about this is, they only have to keep ~10% of deposits in fiat for the person they lend the money to.

check out this example of how banks work:

You deposit $100 in the bank, bank keeps $10 and has $90 to lend out.

Person A borrows $90, bank holds $9 and has $81 more to lend out.

Person B borrows $81, bank holds $8.10 and has $72.90 more to lend out.

Person C borrows $72.90, bank holds $7.29 and has $65.61 more to lend out.

This goes on an on, and provided everybody pays back and nobody defaults, the bank will make a lot of money even without charging interest (there's a formula that works this out, sadly I forget it).

http://www.depositaccounts.com/blog/how-banks-make-money.htm l

The reason this works is that most people withdraw much less than 10% of their income in cash, most of it is spent using credit cards, cheques & bank transfers.