Bitcoin can change the world

[matthewnealwright]

For anyone who wants to know the strong ideals behind Bitcoin and learn a bit more about it, they can watch this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClLbv1yisG4

For anyone who wants to learn more about the technology, they can visit http://www.bitcoin.org and watch the video there.

Revolutionary stuff peeps.

[matthewnealwright]

At 5/1/12 10:39 AM, matthewnealwright wrote: For anyone who wants to know the strong ideals behind Bitcoin and learn a bit more about it, they can watch this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClLbv1yisG4

For anyone who wants to learn more about the technology, they can visit http://www.bitcoin.org and watch the video there.

Revolutionary stuff peeps.

Pretty much every argument for bitcoin is made in that first video so I'd say it's a crucial watch for anyone actually serious about economics, government, fiscal responsibilities, financial regulations, issues of inflation, etc.

[bismuthfeldspar]

So a computer decides who owns which bitcoin and the owner of this computer can loot random people's bitcoin savings for as long as he doesn't generate too much suspicion, or just loot everyone's savings at once and abscond before they can be tracked down.

[matthewnealwright]

At 5/1/12 11:16 AM, bismuthfeldspar wrote: So a computer decides who owns which bitcoin and the owner of this computer can loot random people's bitcoin savings for as long as he doesn't generate too much suspicion, or just loot everyone's savings at once and abscond before they can be tracked down.

Coke is a hell of a drug, bismuthfeldspar. I recommend doing less of it.

Computers don't decide who owns bitcoins, cryptography does. The only way you could loot random people's bitcoin savings would be by cracking SHA256 (which would mean much bigger problems than just Bitcoin related ones, like being able to read the private and secure financial data, logins and passwords across the internet, and military top-secret files.). In other words, you can't.

[bismuthfeldspar]

At 5/1/12 11:50 AM, matthewnealwright wrote: hurr durr

Transaction confirmation only requires 6 clients, any bitcoin exchange can act as a wildcat bank.

Coke is a hell of a drug

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGs8yf2zsHM&t=12m09s

[matthewnealwright]

At 5/1/12 12:27 PM, bismuthfeldspar wrote:

At 5/1/12 11:50 AM, matthewnealwright wrote: hurr durr

Transaction confirmation only requires 6 clients, any bitcoin exchange can act as a wildcat bank.

Sorry, but you're wrong. Confirmations are mathematically impossible to fake. The only thing a "wildcat bank" can do is make the exact same valid transactions appear faster-- which is a good thing. You have no grasp of the technical workings of Bitcoin, and that's understandable.

Feel free to ask any more questions or let me know any more misconceptions you might have.

[Kidradd]

aaah yes, bitcoins. truly the most stable "currency" out there.

[djack]

At 5/1/12 01:08 PM, matthewnealwright wrote: Feel free to ask any more questions or let me know any more misconceptions you might have.

I have a question. How did the company that made you produce a spam-bot that seems so lifelike? I could almost swear I was responding to any normal idiot on the forums, like this was somehow transformed into the General section or 4chan or I just got into an argument with Memorize again.

[Kidradd]

At 5/1/12 02:07 PM, djack wrote:

At 5/1/12 01:08 PM, matthewnealwright wrote: Feel free to ask any more questions or let me know any more misconceptions you might have.

I have a question. How did the company that made you produce a spam-bot that seems so lifelike?

it's called Libertarianism

[matthewnealwright]

At 5/1/12 02:23 PM, Kidradd wrote:

At 5/1/12 02:07 PM, djack wrote:

At 5/1/12 01:08 PM, matthewnealwright wrote: Feel free to ask any more questions or let me know any more misconceptions you might have.

I have a question. How did the company that made you produce a spam-bot that seems so lifelike?

it's called Libertarianism

I am not libertarian. Bitcoin serves a very serious purpose though. Is this entire community a brain-dead, hopeless 12 year old or just you trolls?

[djack]

At 5/1/12 02:43 PM, matthewnealwright wrote: I am not libertarian. Bitcoin serves a very serious purpose though. Is this entire community a brain-dead, hopeless 12 year old or just you trolls?

See, it even calls people trolls just like it's alive. This just proves that skynet won't be a military experiment or AI gone wild, but a sentient spam-bot that will attack our world with ads for dating sites. Strike now John Connor and stop the apocalypse before it happens.

[Kidradd]

At 5/1/12 02:43 PM, matthewnealwright wrote: Bitcoin serves a very serious purpose though.

ha, yeah, really serious. whats the best part of this picture? the box on the left corner? the qr code on the right corner? or ron paul's picture?

[matthewnealwright]

At 5/1/12 03:09 PM, Kidradd wrote:

At 5/1/12 02:43 PM, matthewnealwright wrote: Bitcoin serves a very serious purpose though.

ha, yeah, really serious. whats the best part of this picture? the box on the left corner? the qr code on the right corner? or ron paul's picture?

That is the dumbest thing I've ever seen and I'm pretty sure I told the person who made that to get bent when I first saw it. I hope you're not seriously comparing bitcoin to some crappy ass home-printed fanatic bullshit. That would make you quite ignorant.

[Camarohusky]

I still fail to see how this really helps anyone. It's merely substitution of one currency object for another.

[bismuthfeldspar]

At 5/1/12 01:08 PM, matthewnealwright wrote:

At 5/1/12 12:27 PM, bismuthfeldspar wrote:

At 5/1/12 11:50 AM, matthewnealwright wrote: hurr durr

Transaction confirmation only requires 6 clients, any bitcoin exchange can act as a wildcat bank.

Sorry, but you're wrong. Confirmations are mathematically impossible to fake. The only thing a "wildcat bank" can do is make the exact same valid transactions appear faster-- which is a good thing. You have no grasp of the technical workings of Bitcoin, and that's understandable.

Feel free to ask any more questions or let me know any more misconceptions you might have.

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/internet/3287121/bitcoin-fro m-success-to-flop-in-record-time/
Or all the passwords can be stored on a central wildcat databank.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=16457.0
Or whoever wrote the program has access to all your information.

Or how about this...

So you need 2 gbs of memory continually running per client to check transactions and you need 6 clients to confirm a transaction.

Average bitcoin users switch their computers off every so often which means they need to download transactions made when their computer was off, filling in the gaps, as well as waste 2 gigs of memory on bitcoin to be a functioning client.

Now let's say only 1% of users bother to do this and a bitcoin exchange creates 1000 fake clients, this means a bitcoin exchange is the equivalent of 100000 users.

Now let's say the bitcoin client now claims it has bought all the bitcoins of a user and programs all it's fake clients to confirm this, now everyone in the bitcoin world listens to the 1000 fake clients instead of the 2 or 3 who bother to perform legitimate checks, assuming any do at all. If 2 or 3 disagreeing clients is enough to cancel a transaction then the entire bitcoin system can be shut down by one troll.

[gumOnShoe]

At 5/1/12 04:18 PM, Camarohusky wrote: I still fail to see how this really helps anyone. It's merely substitution of one currency object for another.

Its actually a pretty interesting experiment from a CS perspective. I wouldn't recommend switching your money over ore really even using bitcoin. From what I've seen and read it isn't a stable currency, and most of the money has already been farmed out. That said, it is a valid and recognized currency and that's pretty amazing for an electronic algorithmic accomplishment.

All of that said, SHA-256 will be hacked one day. Its a matter of time. All encryption eventually gets hacked as computers get more powerful. And the history of the currency doesn't lend it much credibility what with its swings in value. And the need for it is not readily apparent, either.

Can't say that I'm going to jump on the band wagon, nor do I think it is especially revolutionary, just a hop in an interesting direction with a touch of good social experimentation.

That said, the people equating this with Ron Paul don't know much about it. There's a good article on wired about its history though. :)

[matthewnealwright]

So you need 2 gbs of memory continually running per client to check transactions and you need 6 clients to confirm a transaction.

You don't need 2GBs of memory to check transactions. Where are you getting these lies from? Are you intentionally trying to spread FUD? You can use electrum or an online wallet just as easily. The reason people download what is called "the blockchain" which is 2GBs is because they want to keep the records on their own. Consumers don't need this record.

Average bitcoin users switch their computers off every so often which means they need to download transactions made when their computer was off, filling in the gaps, as well as waste 2 gigs of memory on bitcoin to be a functioning client.

It's not -memory- that is wasted, it's hard drive space, and yes, only if they wanted to save the blockchain by using the traditional old-school client. I've said it before and I'll say it again-- It's not 2009. Bitcoin has evolved so much since then. Everything you're saying is so misinformed it's depressing.

Now let's say only 1% of users bother to do this and a bitcoin exchange creates 1000 fake clients, this means a bitcoin exchange is the equivalent of 100000 users.

How do you create a "fake client"? What exactly is a "fake client"? Do you know bitcoin works? It does not work by merely listening to clients. It uses SHA256 hashing on an original verified signature. There is NO WAY TO FAKE A BITCOIN TRANSACTION. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE REGARDLESS OF HOW MANY COMPUTERS YOU ARE RUNNING ETC.

Now let's say the bitcoin client now claims it has bought all the bitcoins of a user and programs all it's fake clients to confirm this, now everyone in the bitcoin world listens to the 1000 fake clients instead of the 2 or 3 who bother to perform legitimate checks, assuming any do at all. If 2 or 3 disagreeing clients is enough to cancel a transaction then the entire bitcoin system can be shut down by one troll.

Wrong. This shows your complete and utter lack of knowledge of how bitcoin works. Please ask questions instead of making retarded statements.

[matthewnealwright]

At 5/1/12 04:36 PM, gumOnShoe wrote:

At 5/1/12 04:18 PM, Camarohusky wrote: I still fail to see how this really helps anyone. It's merely substitution of one currency object for another.

Its actually a pretty interesting experiment from a CS perspective. I wouldn't recommend switching your money over ore really even using bitcoin. From what I've seen and read it isn't a stable currency, and most of the money has already been farmed out. That said, it is a valid and recognized currency and that's pretty amazing for an electronic algorithmic accomplishment.

I really would never switch my money over to Bitcoin from fiat. There is no point to doing that unless I'm trying to send the money overseas and don't want to pay fees. Basically Bitcoin acts like Western Union in a sense, except without the fees. When I want to send fiat from my country to yours, I can just give the fiat to someone in exchange for Bitcoins, send the bitcoins, they can trade the bitcoins for fiat in their country. Bing bam boom. Easier, quicker and safer than paypal, and cheaper than Western Union.

There are no real arguments against Bitcoin and that's why it will succeed. The only people -trying- to argue against bitcoin, are the ones who read news articles and assume that the writer knows what they're talking about. (The WIRED magazine article about Bitcoin actually says that Bitcoin hasn't failed at all and is working, they just chose a title to attract more drama and attention).

LOL@anyone trusting news anyway

All of that said, SHA-256 will be hacked one day. Its a matter of time. All encryption eventually gets hacked as computers get more powerful. And the history of the currency doesn't lend it much credibility what with its swings in value. And the need for it is not readily apparent, either.

SHA256 will not be hacked any time soon, and even if it looked like it could be cracked, do you know how simple it is to just upgrade bitcoin to SHA512 or something else? It'd take less than an hour for everyone to upgrade. It's completely scalable in that sense. Again, SHA256 being cracked is hardly bad news for just Bitcoin-- the entire world would come to its knees as banks use it currently to transfer information over the internet.

Can't say that I'm going to jump on the band wagon, nor do I think it is especially revolutionary, just a hop in an interesting direction with a touch of good social experimentation.

Indeed. Bitcoin is a good direction. The governments are starting to wake up because of Bitcoin. The Canadian government is trying to copy Bitcoin (and failing miserably) because even they know how awesome it is. Check out "MintChip" created by the Canadian Royal Mint. It's an honor to Bitcoin to have its image copied by an entire government. We must be doing something right ;)

That said, the people equating this with Ron Paul don't know much about it. There's a good article on wired about its history though. :)

Totally. There are a ton of libertarians in Bitcoin because of what it enables, but even I use Bitcoin and I'm not libertarian.

[morefngdbs]

At 5/1/12 05:43 PM, matthewnealwright wrote: There are no real arguments against Bitcoin and that's why it will succeed.

;;;
THere is the fact without a computer, it is useless.
If a government decides to shut down access to the internet, you have no access to your wallet.

THose are two valid arguments.
I have just started looking at bitcoins.
My first problem with them is value.
If they are like a fiat currency, they will have all the same problems as a fiat currency. Inflation , deflation. Then there's the limited amount of them available...what do you do when you need more & no ones selling. How does my rigging for 11 hours today get me paid ?
I earned over $30.00 Canadian dollars an hour for my first 8 hours, then I went to 1.5 times for the next 3.
I don't see bit coins paying workers wages, the buying & selling products, possibly, sending coins to someone in another country , That I can see. I'm not trading my gold & silver in for bit coins any time soon though.

[gumOnShoe]

At 5/1/12 05:43 PM, matthewnealwright wrote: I really would never switch my money over to Bitcoin from fiat. There is no point to doing that unless I'm trying to send the money overseas and don't want to pay fees. Basically Bitcoin acts like Western Union in a sense, except without the fees. When I want to send fiat from my country to yours, I can just give the fiat to someone in exchange for Bitcoins, send the bitcoins, they can trade the bitcoins for fiat in their country. Bing bam boom. Easier, quicker and safer than paypal, and cheaper than Western Union.

Right, but you can also wire the money pretty easily as well. I'm pretty sure I can electronically wire money at will now to anyone who uses the same bank as me. Beyond that, credit unions can generally take care of that as well, and they are non-profit institutions.

I get what you're saying, I'm just not sure there aren't other ways to do it as well.

There are no real arguments against Bitcoin and that's why it will succeed.

Well, I mean, there's always the EMP apocalypse, the polarity of the earth changing, or just a huge brown out occuring to make me not want to go Bitcoin all the way. I understand the currencies unique properties and acknowledge its current success, but it is ultimately very swingy in actual value when going between currencies (which makes using it as a transferal service slightly shaky). I'm also not quite sure what I would get out of it that I don't get from fiat money.

SHA256 will not be hacked any time soon, and even if it looked like it could be cracked, do you know how simple it is to just upgrade bitcoin to SHA512 or something else? It'd take less than an hour for everyone to upgrade. It's completely scalable in that sense. Again, SHA256 being cracked is hardly bad news for just Bitcoin-- the entire world would come to its knees as banks use it currently to transfer information over the internet.

Right, but banks at least have very hard to corrupt back ups. I don't know the the history of Bitcoin, but i have a feeling you'd have to pick a point in the past to back up too if its even possible wipe everyone's transactions rather than a few.

Anyhow, my only point is that encryption simply isn't a fail-safe. I'm not sure what the algorithm and source code do, but is that stuff widely available? Is it possible to reverse engineer the code? Is it safe from your standard man in the middle attack?

Indeed. Bitcoin is a good direction. The governments are starting to wake up because of Bitcoin. The Canadian government is trying to copy Bitcoin (and failing miserably) because even they know how awesome it is. Check out "MintChip" created by the Canadian Royal Mint. It's an honor to Bitcoin to have its image copied by an entire government. We must be doing something right ;)

Right, I can see the interest in it. And I think an argument could be made that Bitcoin might be the predecessor to a viable stable electronic currency, but my bet is that its going to be a nation backed electronic currency that eventually gets that golden award. Mostly because money is as valuable as the people who back it and countries are generally viewed as more trustworthy than strangers on the internet. This gets in to societal perception more than the validity of they system, however.

For instance, scientists should be largely trustworthy individuals; but, climate scientists have a rough time finding people outside of their science who will trust them.

Also, this is a brand new idea. People tend not to accept those the first time around (Sega saturn :[ )

Totally. There are a ton of libertarians in Bitcoin because of what it enables, but even I use Bitcoin and I'm not libertarian.

Yeah, but you use a lot of the same language that libertarians and anarchists tend to use around here, so don't be surprised when people make that assumption. The two most rabid of the previous categories used to use the term "fiat money" every other sentance, and so the term is a little charged around here just because its become colloquial.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

no bitcoins are a useless idea. and who ever supports it is a dumb ass.

[Proteas]

At 5/1/12 04:18 PM, Camarohusky wrote: I still fail to see how this really helps anyone. It's merely substitution of one currency object for another.

Agreed. It would seem like this started out as an advertisment for an online service, and has quickly devolved into a pissing contest between a bitcoin fanboy and people with too much time on their hands.

So let's cut through the bullshit, shall we?

HEY, TOPIC STARTER; where is this going, and what do you hope to accomplish with this topic?

[matthewnealwright]

At 5/1/12 07:25 PM, morefngdbs wrote:

At 5/1/12 05:43 PM, matthewnealwright wrote: There are no real arguments against Bitcoin and that's why it will succeed.

;;;
THere is the fact without a computer, it is useless.
If a government decides to shut down access to the internet, you have no access to your wallet.

You just contradicted yourself. You said "wihtout a computer" and then you gave an example based off of "internet". Without a computer, you can still store the functional bitcoin wallets. Without the internet you can still make transactions through QR code inputs etc. Your argument is invalid.

Also, when's the last time the governments of the world successful shut down the internet for everyone? Never? Thought so. They can't get rid of torrents and you think they can get rid of Bitcoin? Interesting...

THose are two valid arguments.

You haven't yet made an argument much less a valid one. Sorry.

I have just started looking at bitcoins.
My first problem with them is value.
If they are like a fiat currency, they will have all the same problems as a fiat currency.

They're more like gold than fiat currency. There's a terrific article explaining this here: http://bitcoinmedia.com/gold-is-a-physical-element-bitcoin-i s-an-abstract-protocol/

Inflation , deflation. Then there's the limited amount of them available...what do you do when you need more & no ones selling.

What do you do when you need more fiat cash and no one is giving?

:How does my rigging for 11 hours today get me paid ?
Are you talking about -mining- bitcoins? Because mining has nothing to do with -using- bitcoins. It's like talking about being a mechanic when someone is trying to talk to about driving a car.

I earned over $30.00 Canadian dollars an hour for my first 8 hours, then I went to 1.5 times for the next 3.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

I don't see bit coins paying workers wages,

Why would bitcoin -pay- anyone anything? Bitcoin is a type of hybrid currency/commodity. It is inanimate. People can pay you bitcoins, bitcoins don't pay you bitcoins.

:the buying & selling products, possibly, sending coins to someone in another country , That I can see.
Then stop right there, because that's all I've been talking about this whole time :)

:I'm not trading my gold & silver in for bit coins any time soon though.
Have you ever sold gold for fiat? That's -trading- gold for fiat isn't it? I don't advocate getting rid of your gold unless you need liquidity (gold is kind of hard to shove down wires and cables across the internet). In that case, sell your gold for bitcoins and spend them. Never hold bitcoins. Hold gold. Use bitcoins. Big difference.

[matthewnealwright]

At 5/1/12 08:12 PM, gumOnShoe wrote:

At 5/1/12 05:43 PM, matthewnealwright wrote: I really would never switch my money over to Bitcoin from fiat. There is no point to doing that unless I'm trying to send the money overseas and don't want to pay fees. Basically Bitcoin acts like Western Union in a sense, except without the fees. When I want to send fiat from my country to yours, I can just give the fiat to someone in exchange for Bitcoins, send the bitcoins, they can trade the bitcoins for fiat in their country. Bing bam boom. Easier, quicker and safer than paypal, and cheaper than Western Union.

Right, but you can also wire the money pretty easily as well.

If I wired you money right now over ACH, I could call my bank up after you've sent me whatever product or performed whatever service and have them reclaim it, defrauding you. Can't do that with bitcoins. Also can't get your accounts frozen because of something you have nothing to do with. Isn't your money supposed to be -yours-?

I'm pretty sure I can electronically wire money at will now to anyone who uses the same bank as me. Beyond that, credit unions can generally take care of that as well, and they are non-profit institutions.

Out of all the banking establishments, credit unions are the best-- I agree. I don't agree with -needing- banking establishments though. Typically those establishments exist to provide services to you. Bitcoin provides all these services built-in though and there are other community company provided services for the rest (trading, forex, investments, banking, loans, etc).

I get what you're saying, I'm just not sure there aren't other ways to do it as well.

Right now nothing compares to Bitcoin even remotely regarding freedom of money. Your money is yours. No one can take it from you unless you give them your SHA256 keypair like an idiot, in which case -anyone- can take your money.

There are no real arguments against Bitcoin and that's why it will succeed.

Well, I mean, there's always the EMP apocalypse,

Sorry, but you can store bitcoins on paper (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Paper_wallet) and in QR codes as well, so that's out of the argument list immediately.

the polarity of the earth changing, or just a huge brown out occuring to make me not want to go Bitcoin all the way.

Same.

:I understand the currencies unique properties and acknowledge its current success, but it is ultimately very swingy in actual value when going between currencies (which makes using it as a transferal service slightly shaky). I'm also not quite sure what I would get out of it that I don't get from fiat money.

The market value has had some difficulty (like -any- currency has) in the beginning, but it is more or less stable. The point is to not take market risk. Get your bitcoins in and out ASAP. When I buy something in bitcoins, I send my money to the exchange, take my bitcoins, and spend them. Done. I don't take risks on the spot price of bitcoin by holding them for months at a time. Also, the price has been steady for 6+ months now. It's actually risen a bit this week to be honest.

SHA256 will not be hacked any time soon, and even if it looked like it could be cracked, do you know how simple it is to just upgrade bitcoin to SHA512 or something else? It'd take less than an hour for everyone to upgrade. It's completely scalable in that sense. Again, SHA256 being cracked is hardly bad news for just Bitcoin-- the entire world would come to its knees as banks use it currently to transfer information over the internet.

Right, but banks at least have very hard to corrupt back ups.

The blockchain is also backed up at thousands of locations, and if you use bitcoin, you're a functional backup too. You cannot lose your coins by anything other than someone stealing your wallet files (which should be encrypted and kept safe, just like your 'real money').

:I don't know the the history of Bitcoin,
Do some research, It's a fascinating experiment in economics and it's succeeding like crazy. The idiot on this thread saying "Bitcoins are gh3y" are just mad that they have to use crappy services like paypal. They are afraid of change.

:but i have a feeling you'd have to pick a point in the past to back up too if its even possible wipe everyone's transactions rather than a few.
That's not how it works at all. All transactions are valid in the blockchain, regardless of how late you drop them in. You cannot spend money you do not have, and you cannot spend money from your wallet without proving you have it. That's the beauty of the system and SHA256.

Anyhow, my only point is that encryption simply isn't a fail-safe.

Yes it is. And the second it becomes an issue, it's upgraded. Quantum computers that can crack SHA256? How about quantum level encryption upgrades. Bam. Problem solved. I am not hearing a single argument that I haven't heard before from people who won't take the time to educate themselves. *yawn*

I'm not sure what the algorithm and source code do, but is that stuff widely available? Is it possible to reverse engineer the code? Is it safe from your standard man in the middle attack?

The code is completely open source. Anyone can look at it, only the -entire network- can accept revisions to it though. That's like having the entire internet adopt IPv6. Same idea. Everyone has to agree or it doesn't get done. As for man in the middle attacks, you don't 'send' money actually, you write in the public ledger that you're remitting an amount to a certain address. It's all transparent and open. There is no -middle- to get into.

Indeed. Bitcoin is a good direction. The governments are starting to wake up because of Bitcoin. The Canadian government is trying to copy Bitcoin (and failing miserably) because even they know how awesome it is. Check out "MintChip" created by the Canadian Royal Mint. It's an honor to Bitcoin to have its image copied by an entire government. We must be doing something right ;)

Right, I can see the interest in it. And I think an argument could be made that Bitcoin might be the predecessor to a viable stable electronic currency, but my bet is that its going to be a nation backed electronic currency that eventually gets that golden award. Mostly because money is as valuable as the people who back it and countries are generally viewed as more trustworthy than strangers on the internet. This gets in to societal perception more than the validity of they system, however.

Unfortunately for the time being you're absolutely correct. The obvious fallacy of this though is that governments -aren't- trustworthy and they -will- take your money (taxes, theft, etc). They do it everyday. Good luck fighting your government to keep -your- money, when you can just decide who gets your bitcoins.

For instance, scientists should be largely trustworthy individuals; but, climate scientists have a rough time finding people outside of their science who will trust them.

Also, this is a brand new idea. People tend not to accept those the first time around (Sega saturn :[ )

You couldn't be more right friend. Look at the idiots in this thread for proof. They'll take a completely functioning concept and say "it doesn't work!" because they're too ignorant and inbred to learn anything. What a pathetic race.

Totally. There are a ton of libertarians in Bitcoin because of what it enables, but even I use Bitcoin and I'm not libertarian.

Yeah, but you use a lot of the same language that libertarians and anarchists tend to use around here, so don't be surprised when people make that assumption. The two most rabid of the previous categories used to use the term "fiat money" every other sentance, and so the term is a little charged around here just because its become colloquial.

Well using USD is the same currency as druggies, rapists, murderers, etc., so I should categorize anyone who uses fiat currency as being one of those, right? hehe.

[matthewnealwright]

At 5/1/12 08:22 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: no bitcoins are a useless idea. and who ever supports it is a dumb ass.

And you think going to Afganistan as necessary too don't you? hehe. Judging by your avatar and profile, I'd say you have no idea what the difference between a good idea and a bad one is. Have a fun life, caveman.

[matthewnealwright]

At 5/1/12 11:07 PM, Proteas wrote:

At 5/1/12 04:18 PM, Camarohusky wrote: I still fail to see how this really helps anyone. It's merely substitution of one currency object for another.

Agreed. It would seem like this started out as an advertisment for an online service

Hey idiot, are "torrents" an online service?
, and has quickly devolved into a pissing contest between a bitcoin fanboy and people with too much time on their hands.

So let's cut through the bullshit, shall we?

HEY, TOPIC STARTER; where is this going, and what do you hope to accomplish with this topic?

I hope to accomplish my part in getting you fucking loads of garbage off your fat, self-important cynical asses and becoming a part of something bigger than your next TV dinner. Why are you even alive still anyway if you're not alive for change?

[matthewnealwright]

Something else cool happening in Bitcoin this week-- BitInstant just hit $1.1million USD in transactions for the month.

Know what that means? It means people have used BitInstant to help facilitate their Fiat->Bitcoin and Bitcoin->Fiat instant exchanges for over $1,100,000USD worth of currency this month. Yea, sounds like a "failed" project to me! Only like 12 people must be using it! hahahahahaha

[NathanGHart]

I am bored and tired of all the resistance to bitcoin. If one cannot see the huge potential and advantages for a currency that is perfect for game and web developers as well as game players, then he should seriously consider another career. I know in all my projects I am ONLY considering how to build BTC into my payment methods, voting buttons, ad revenue and other features.

If you just step back and look at what it means that we have an irreversible, extensible, and open-source currency option that has literally unlimited potential to integrate with our games natively, then you might begin to see that bitcoin not only can change the world, it ALREADY has.

And for such a politically-minded group, I am almost hesitant to get involved now that I see how resistant to change a lot of you are now.

Open your minds,
Nathan

[Korriken]

At 5/2/12 01:40 AM, matthewnealwright wrote:

I hope to accomplish my part in getting you fucking loads of garbage off your fat, self-important cynical asses and becoming a part of something bigger than your next TV dinner. Why are you even alive still anyway if you're not alive for change?

to troll short sighted maggots like yourself.

[NathanGHart]

Sorry for the multiple postings but I forgot to add that the replies and posts on buying illegal drugs, hacking wallets, breaking SHA-256, and all the other nonsense is just complete NONSENSE.

Probably 90% of the internet is pr0n, pirated materials, and other crap. We don't throw out the incredible value, contribution, and impact to society of teh interwebs because it is mostly used illicitly. Why would we do this bit bitcoin?