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Subjective Objectivism

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ILove2Grok
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Subjective Objectivism Apr. 28th, 2012 @ 06:49 PM Reply

Example -- some religious followers believe that their God is external in their own eyes. That is their objective subjectivism.

Anyone can say that, what the religious persons sees as objective, is only subjective in reality, of course. But, you can not contest that it is not objective in their own eyes though -- may it be false objectivism -- you can not objectively-subjectively contest another's objective subjectivity.

Thus; all of what we see and perceive of, is what we chose to subjectively speak and perceive of; through false objectivity.

''Objectivity is in the eye of the beholder. Subjectivity is in the eye of the beholder's observer.''

Subjective Objectivism

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Response to Subjective Objectivism Apr. 28th, 2012 @ 06:51 PM Reply

Suck my cock?


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PIED3
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Response to Subjective Objectivism Apr. 28th, 2012 @ 06:56 PM Reply

That's the exact opposite of philosophy, mystifying instead of elucidating.
There is clear difference between a statement that's subjective and one that's false. When a religious believer says "god exists" that is not a subjective statement. If you think it is you don't understand what the word subjective means. If you disagree with them then you think they are wrong. Subjectivity doesn't come into it.
If something is subjective it is specific to the person saying it. "That film was great" is subjective, because the person saying doesn't actually mean everyone will enjoy it, or it's objectively superior to other films, they just mean they really liked the film. When you say "God exists" you DO mean that god is an objective existent force in the universe and that he would remain so even if you didn't exist.


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Response to Subjective Objectivism Apr. 28th, 2012 @ 06:59 PM Reply

At 4/28/12 06:56 PM, PIED3 wrote: That's the exact opposite of philosophy, mystifying instead of elucidating.
There is clear difference between a statement that's subjective and one that's false. When a religious believer says "god exists" that is not a subjective statement. If you think it is you don't understand what the word subjective means. If you disagree with them then you think they are wrong. Subjectivity doesn't come into it.
If something is subjective it is specific to the person saying it. "That film was great" is subjective, because the person saying doesn't actually mean everyone will enjoy it, or it's objectively superior to other films, they just mean they really liked the film. When you say "God exists" you DO mean that god is an objective existent force in the universe and that he would remain so even if you didn't exist.

Subjectivism is when a perspective is encompassed by emotion and bias.

Objectivism is the exact opposite; being that the perception does not come from the person's head.

When a religious person perceives their God to be external; thus, that eliminates the nature of subjectivity through their own eyes. We can see the reality of subjectivity in their perception, but, they do not. They truly convinced themselves that God is in the outside world; therefore false objectivity.

PIED3
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Response to Subjective Objectivism Apr. 28th, 2012 @ 07:08 PM Reply

At 4/28/12 06:59 PM, ILove2Grok wrote: Subjectivism is when a perspective is encompassed by emotion and bias.

Okay so you actually don't know what subjectivity is then. I thought you might have just been communicating poorly before but now there is no denying you are misusing the word.
1.
a. Proceeding from or taking place in a person's mind rather than the external world: a subjective decision.
b. Particular to a given person; personal: subjective experience.
Nothing to do with emotions or bias.

Objectivism is the exact opposite; being that the perception does not come from the person's head.

All perception comes from "your head". How can I, as a person, not perceive something as the person me? If you are arguing that coming to objective conclusions as a person is impossible then okay, but i don't think you are.

When a religious person perceives their God to be external; thus, that eliminates the nature of subjectivity through their own eyes.

They think god objectively exists, yeah.

We can see the reality of subjectivity in their perception, but, they do not. They truly convinced themselves that God is in the outside world; therefore false objectivity.

There is no "reality of subjectivity". We just disagree with them. It isn't "false objectivity" either, it just an objective statement that's false. Just like when you get a maths question wrong, your incorrect answer isn't subjective. There is no subjectivity to maths, you're either right or your wrong and that's it. Likewise with god, either he exists or he doesn't, i don't really see how there is anything subjective about that.


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ILove2Grok
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Response to Subjective Objectivism Apr. 28th, 2012 @ 07:24 PM Reply

At 4/28/12 07:08 PM, PIED3 wrote:
At 4/28/12 06:59 PM, ILove2Grok wrote: Subjectivism is when a perspective is encompassed by emotion and bias.
Okay so you actually don't know what subjectivity is then. I thought you might have just been communicating poorly before but now there is no denying you are misusing the word.
1.
a. Proceeding from or taking place in a person's mind rather than the external world: a subjective decision.
b. Particular to a given person; personal: subjective experience.
Nothing to do with emotions or bias.
Objectivism is the exact opposite; being that the perception does not come from the person's head.
All perception comes from "your head". How can I, as a person, not perceive something as the person me? If you are arguing that coming to objective conclusions as a person is impossible then okay, but i don't think you are.
When a religious person perceives their God to be external; thus, that eliminates the nature of subjectivity through their own eyes.
They think god objectively exists, yeah.
We can see the reality of subjectivity in their perception, but, they do not. They truly convinced themselves that God is in the outside world; therefore false objectivity.
There is no "reality of subjectivity". We just disagree with them. It isn't "false objectivity" either, it just an objective statement that's false. Just like when you get a maths question wrong, your incorrect answer isn't subjective. There is no subjectivity to maths, you're either right or your wrong and that's it. Likewise with god, either he exists or he doesn't, i don't really see how there is anything subjective about that.

Perhaps you only understand the word 'subjective' remotely. It has everything to do with being accompanied by any form of personal bias or emotion. Anything that obfuscates an external object of perception, is a derivation of subjectivism.

Perception comes from your head, of course. It is when someone takes a subjective perception and turns it into a objective ideology in their own head -- not in reality. That is where the contradicting play-on word 'subjective-objectivism' derives from.

If you were to ask a religious follower who believes God to be external; they would not use the word 'think'. That is why you can not subjectively-objectively contest another's subjective-objectivism. You do not see what they see through their own eyes.

The supposed objective statement is only false due to your own subjective-objectivism. It is not false in the religious follower's eyes. This is my point.

Math questions are external properties built on a distinctive system of inferences. The prominence is no where near the lack of prominence of God. Thus; an example that is irrelevant.

Yes, and no, are two absolutes that can not be incorporated in an incomprehensible ideology.

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Response to Subjective Objectivism Apr. 28th, 2012 @ 07:26 PM Reply

The belief in God is purely subjective. It depends on your own biases and experiences.

Great, you can all move on now.


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Response to Subjective Objectivism Apr. 28th, 2012 @ 07:27 PM Reply

Objectivity is derived by data and information gathering that tries to reduce as many biases as possible.

In the scientific fields at least. That's where it matters the most anyways, as soon as you try to apply obectivity to the human world and society, it just falls apart. Like these stupid fucking surveys that say X percentage of population does Y. Qualitative and quantative analysis is a great tool of the scientific method, but more often it fails in the hands of sociologists and anthropologists who try to apply the scientific method to a constantly changing environment.

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Response to Subjective Objectivism Apr. 28th, 2012 @ 07:30 PM Reply

At 4/28/12 07:26 PM, Landpaddle wrote: The belief in God is purely subjective. It depends on your own biases and experiences.

Great, you can all move on now.

A person can choos to see objectivity in subjectivism. Thus; your subjective-objective response falls apart.

ILove2Grok
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Response to Subjective Objectivism Apr. 28th, 2012 @ 07:34 PM Reply

At 4/28/12 07:27 PM, amplefied wrote: Objectivity is derived by data and information gathering that tries to reduce as many biases as possible.

In the scientific fields at least. That's where it matters the most anyways, as soon as you try to apply obectivity to the human world and society, it just falls apart. Like these stupid fucking surveys that say X percentage of population does Y. Qualitative and quantative analysis is a great tool of the scientific method, but more often it fails in the hands of sociologists and anthropologists who try to apply the scientific method to a constantly changing environment.

Of course.

Generalisations only serve as an antithesis to objectivism.

It is not possible to keep track of an arbitrary system of variables.

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Response to Subjective Objectivism Apr. 28th, 2012 @ 07:39 PM Reply

At 4/28/12 07:24 PM, ILove2Grok wrote: Perhaps you only understand the word 'subjective' remotely. It has everything to do with being accompanied by any form of personal bias or emotion. Anything that obfuscates an external object of perception, is a derivation of subjectivism.

So a blind fold is a "derivation of subjectivism". If you aren't going to use words as they are defined and are going to make up strange definitions that don't really work then i don't want to carry on with the conversation. I don't think you are actually trying to make things clear and the terminology you're using is unnecessary garbled. Can you not think of a clearer term to use than "subjectively-objectively contest"? You either bad at getting your point across, don't want to, or i'm just too dumb for the topic. Either way i'm out.


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Response to Subjective Objectivism Apr. 28th, 2012 @ 07:46 PM Reply

At 4/28/12 07:39 PM, PIED3 wrote:
At 4/28/12 07:24 PM, ILove2Grok wrote: Perhaps you only understand the word 'subjective' remotely. It has everything to do with being accompanied by any form of personal bias or emotion. Anything that obfuscates an external object of perception, is a derivation of subjectivism.
So a blind fold is a "derivation of subjectivism". If you aren't going to use words as they are defined and are going to make up strange definitions that don't really work then i don't want to carry on with the conversation. I don't think you are actually trying to make things clear and the terminology you're using is unnecessary garbled. Can you not think of a clearer term to use than "subjectively-objectively contest"? You either bad at getting your point across, don't want to, or i'm just too dumb for the topic. Either way i'm out.

If you don't understand it, it makes no sense to give up on it so easily because of it.

Your choice.

I am not misusing any of the words, and I suggest you to read this:

subjectivity -- placing excessive emphasis on one's own moods, attitudes, opinions, etc. Which is personal bias and emotion.

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Response to Subjective Objectivism Apr. 28th, 2012 @ 07:51 PM Reply

At 4/28/12 06:56 PM, PIED3 wrote: There is clear difference between a statement that's subjective and one that's false. When a religious believer says "god exists" that is not a subjective statement. If you think it is you don't understand what the word subjective means.

Thread should have ended here.


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Response to Subjective Objectivism Apr. 28th, 2012 @ 07:54 PM Reply

At 4/28/12 07:51 PM, Silverdust wrote:
At 4/28/12 06:56 PM, PIED3 wrote: There is clear difference between a statement that's subjective and one that's false. When a religious believer says "god exists" that is not a subjective statement. If you think it is you don't understand what the word subjective means.
Thread should have ended here.

In your eyes, of course.

I like it how responses only make my [case in point]

You can not use subjective objectivism to judge another's subjective objectivism. Your perception of reality is only co-existent, but not in cohesion.

When you say that the thread should've ended there, that is only what you see in your own eyes. You didn't even provide an argument. Why so quick to assume that you understand any of this?

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Response to Subjective Objectivism Apr. 28th, 2012 @ 08:00 PM Reply

At 4/28/12 07:54 PM, ILove2Grok wrote: You can not use subjective objectivism to judge another's subjective objectivism.

That's subjective.

You didn't even provide an argument.

When did I say I was going to provide an argument?


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Response to Subjective Objectivism Apr. 28th, 2012 @ 08:03 PM Reply

At 4/28/12 08:00 PM, Silverdust wrote:
At 4/28/12 07:54 PM, ILove2Grok wrote: You can not use subjective objectivism to judge another's subjective objectivism.
That's subjective.

You didn't even provide an argument.
When did I say I was going to provide an argument?

That is actually objective reason.

You can not speak of another's world; if you have never stepped inside their world. You are only free to interpret it.

If you have no argument; you have no say.

I'd suggest you to wipe out that sarcastic presence of yours. It doesn't do any good.

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Response to Subjective Objectivism Apr. 29th, 2012 @ 01:00 AM Reply

i'm a subjective objectivist


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Response to Subjective Objectivism Apr. 29th, 2012 @ 01:35 AM Reply

At 4/29/12 01:00 AM, SKHM wrote: i'm a subjective objectivist

What does this mean in your eyes?

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Response to Subjective Objectivism Apr. 29th, 2012 @ 01:39 AM Reply

At 4/29/12 01:35 AM, ILove2Grok wrote:
At 4/29/12 01:00 AM, SKHM wrote: i'm a subjective objectivist
What does this mean in your eyes?

an expression of the inherent universal duality

nothing and everything

i am black and white

i am poor, yet rich

i am wise, but young


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Response to Subjective Objectivism Apr. 29th, 2012 @ 01:41 AM Reply

Oh God, is this Insanctuary's alt?


I'm a single father and a multimillionaire.

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Response to Subjective Objectivism Apr. 29th, 2012 @ 01:45 AM Reply

At 4/29/12 01:39 AM, SKHM wrote:
At 4/29/12 01:35 AM, ILove2Grok wrote:
At 4/29/12 01:00 AM, SKHM wrote: i'm a subjective objectivist
What does this mean in your eyes?
an expression of the inherent universal duality

nothing and everything

i am black and white

i am poor, yet rich

i am wise, but young

When opposites come together in co-existence. A balanced mind-set.

What does this have to do with being a subjective objectivist though?

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Response to Subjective Objectivism Apr. 29th, 2012 @ 01:46 AM Reply

At 4/29/12 01:45 AM, ILove2Grok wrote:
When opposites come together in co-existence. A balanced mind-set.

What does this have to do with being a subjective objectivist though?

Yup, alt confirmed.


I'm a single father and a multimillionaire.

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Response to Subjective Objectivism Apr. 29th, 2012 @ 01:48 AM Reply

At 4/29/12 01:46 AM, TurkeyBased wrote:
At 4/29/12 01:45 AM, ILove2Grok wrote:
When opposites come together in co-existence. A balanced mind-set.

What does this have to do with being a subjective objectivist though?
Yup, alt confirmed.

Who are you?

Who is Insanctuary?

SKHM
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Response to Subjective Objectivism Apr. 29th, 2012 @ 01:48 AM Reply

At 4/29/12 01:45 AM, ILove2Grok wrote: What does this have to do with being a subjective objectivist though?

you have to reach out with your feelings to understand what i really meant

it is more than being balanced

it is much more


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Response to Subjective Objectivism Apr. 29th, 2012 @ 01:51 AM Reply

At 4/29/12 01:48 AM, SKHM wrote:
At 4/29/12 01:45 AM, ILove2Grok wrote: What does this have to do with being a subjective objectivist though?
you have to reach out with your feelings to understand what i really meant

it is more than being balanced

it is much more

Are you implying the sense of being ''One'' with yourself and the universe? To 'feel' the abstract language of the world?

I do concur though, it is far more than simply balance.

Can you specify what this has to do with being a subjective objectivist though?

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Response to Subjective Objectivism Apr. 29th, 2012 @ 01:53 AM Reply

At 4/29/12 01:51 AM, ILove2Grok wrote: Can you specify what this has to do with being a subjective objectivist though?

think of it like grammar

there are always subjects

and objects

then there is the verb

the verb is you

a human being

you are action

eternal action


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Response to Subjective Objectivism Apr. 29th, 2012 @ 01:58 AM Reply

At 4/29/12 01:53 AM, SKHM wrote:
At 4/29/12 01:51 AM, ILove2Grok wrote: Can you specify what this has to do with being a subjective objectivist though?
think of it like grammar

there are always subjects

and objects

then there is the verb

the verb is you

a human being

you are action

eternal action

Of course.

Our minds are like mysterious architects that add more to the physical structure of the objects found anywhere in the world. It adds feeling, value, purpose to an un-bias realm.

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Response to Subjective Objectivism Apr. 29th, 2012 @ 01:59 AM Reply

At 4/29/12 01:58 AM, ILoveToGrok wrote: Of course.

Our minds are like mysterious architects that add more to the physical structure of the objects found anywhere in the world. It adds feeling, value, purpose to an un-bias realm.

no, you are wrong

you are still assuming that there are two realms

the ideal of the mind and the real "unbias realm"

you need to experience the abyss


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Response to Subjective Objectivism Apr. 29th, 2012 @ 02:04 AM Reply

At 4/29/12 01:59 AM, SKHM wrote:
At 4/29/12 01:58 AM, ILoveToGrok wrote: Of course.

Our minds are like mysterious architects that add more to the physical structure of the objects found anywhere in the world. It adds feeling, value, purpose to an un-bias realm.
no, you are wrong

you are still assuming that there are two realms

the ideal of the mind and the real "unbias realm"

you need to experience the abyss

What if the void is as subjective as a reality?

What if there is only an abyss presented to one convinced of an abyss?

And life presented to those convinced of a life?

What if there is more than 1, 2, or even 3 realms to those who are convinced of a multitude of realms?

What if you only see what you convince yourself to see?

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Response to Subjective Objectivism Apr. 29th, 2012 @ 02:05 AM Reply

At 4/29/12 02:01 AM, Xyphon202 wrote: Fuck this shit. Subjective = opinion, objective = fact. Any deeper than that and it doesn't belong here.

Fuck off you self-entitled pseudo-philosophers. We've had enough of you people here.

In reality, of course.

What you see as subjective, may not be subjective in another's eyes. Thus; I have had enough with people assuming quick victory obver a debate they do not understand.