i'd say "follow your nose" , if you can maintain the same ethos as it is now then go ahead but if you have a doubt on that then i would not do it

At 4/13/12 05:23 PM, LaForge wrote: Tom, did you create this fabulous community to make money? don't fucking sell out man. once outside interests sink their fangs into this site, you might as well throw in the towel, and lose the respect of all users who aren't fucking idiots.

I'm with LaForge... taking money means they expect something in return, and it can very quickly ruin the integrity of the site.

My vote goes to not take the money. Don't sell your soul to the corporate devils.

I think that what ever route you take - you should go no-holds. Throw yourself into either decision and you'll never regret it. NG has been amazing to grow up with. I've been coming here for over 10 years how and have seen this place grow SO much. I know you've faced a similar decision before. I think as a man with a family and a wonderful company that you've built from the ground up, you should ask yourself - what would be best? If you're cautious to "get into bed" with these VC - then keep your wits about. Have a lawyer draw out exactly what sort of stakes you'll keep in the company. How much control you'll have, and see what sort of people are looking to invest in this place. It's a big cross roads no doubt, just be confident in your decision and know that you have all of us supporting you in what ever new adventure ensue! :D

Best of luck on your choice!!!

(now back to work on getting out to Philly for Pico Day >.< hahahaa)

Tom even though it would benefit you, NG, and possibly myself as a content provider..
Don't do it.

You've got something amazing already. If you haven't realized it yet I don't think you ever will.
It's the human condition to always want more, but it's also our hamartia.

You will never be satisfied completely, and you have to get rid of the notion that maybe you could be one day. Just appreciate the now, take a step back and really take in all you've done since being a kid in high school messing around with no intention of ever getting this huge.

I mean fuck...You are a personal hero of mine, you send me a piece of paper with your signature and it was the greatest birthday present ever.

Hell, the fact that so many people are posting in this thread, knowing that their voices are actually going to be heard and maybe make a difference is one of the best things about you running it on your own, and not having the big decisions being made by whoever is paying the most money.

I already appreciate Newgrounds for what it already is and don't think that the money is really neccessary.

It is indeed a difficult situation. Sure, success sounds like a good thing, especially if it helps the ones who created the site and the artists. But it's a very risky move, with many things that could go wrong. First of all, the investors would get influence (I don't know how much but surely not only a bit) over Newgrounds and that gives me a very bad feeling. The staff is very close to the community, something that can't be found on any other site. The ones who are in charge and the community share a bond of friendship, it sounds cheesy but it's true. Newgrounds in all its aspects was always a close community, that's what defines Newgrounds for me, and I am sure that many others feel the same way, and I fear that this would go away when huge investors gain more influence. I am not even sure if the "all artists and game developers will get sponsored" will become reality, most likely investors would concentrate on only a few very famous artists( possibly with stricted contracts in terms of the content they are supposed to make), or maybe even only on companies who release some polished games that don't have much originality. The "Everything, by everyone" aspect of the site wouldn't exist anymore. You already mentioned that some content would have to be deleted.
The thing that I fear the most is that the "5 years of being amazing" ends with a financial catastrophe, that leaves you with nothing and makes Newgrounds vanish.
That's why I vote for option 1, staying solo. The mentioned micro-transactions sound like a great idea to me and I support them.

The only way I could see you being happy is if the investor was someone you know and trust, have worked with in the past, and brings in something more long-lasting than money, ie: has connections or skills that directly tie-into your goals. Plus, they'd have to agree to be extremely hands off and trust YOU to use their money with near-impunity.

That's a tall order for investors these days, so likely, for your own happiness and sanity, I'd say you're better off staying independent even though you have to tighten your belt to stay afloat.

BomToons said it well. My only worry is that some content might get censored. Even the hentai. I think that shit is a little weird, but just for the sake of having a place that allows EVERYTHING is amazing. 'merica.

On a totally contradictory note: Take the money, hire me as a coffee boy, and sponsor every one of my games for 1502341 doll-hairs.

At 4/13/12 05:23 PM, GodOfVideoGames wrote: I'd say do number 2, but I don't want NG to sell out like Youtube did to Google.

YouTube was funded by VC from the start, it sold out before it sold out, burned money from day one and keeps burning money now.

Well, it's your choice, Tom. All I can say is that if you want to maintain the spirit of the site, then make sure that they won't change it in anyway way you feel people, or you, would find bad.

Money. Itd be nice for all the content creators on this site :3

At 4/13/12 05:30 PM, FrozenFire wrote:

I mean fuck...You are a personal hero of mine, you send me a piece of paper with your signature and it was the greatest birthday present ever.

Man that makes me feel so shitty that we haven't been sending out certificates. The printer sucks at printing on them.

I can imagine that a VCapitalist would want a say in how things are done within the company they invest a couple of millions into. So I'd say that it all comes down to Who would be the investor, maybe try to go for the best offer based on who is willing to invest and not how much they are willing to invest. Getting someone who just wanna inject cash and sit back or someone you think would be an asset to NG would be supreme :)

Otherwise I'd love NG to stay as is, just imagine if an investor would force us to "clean up", we couldn't keep "everything by everyone" as a slogan then :P

Screw those, turn NG into a pornography website.

Tom, I dunno, your arguments sound really unprofessional.

Okay, you might get a big funding, but at the same time you lose control over this website. Newgrounds has always been a very personal site, even you and the moderators acted like funny dudes, that was one thing that seperates you from other large websites.
With this happening, NG might also turn into something different.

Newgrounds and the Behemoth are very successful already, man. I say concentrate on goddam Battleblock Theater.

Stay independent. It's for the best of Newgrounds.

Tom,

you and Newgrounds are heroes of the internet; you pioneered in ways others could only dream of, and built a successful place where people can speak freely and express their thoughts in various forms of artwork.

Do what you think is best, but don't compromise what you know you want Newgrounds to be.

...ugh.

I love ya, Tom, and I want the best for you because you're my hero and role model in life, but part of what makes newgrounds great is what it's NOT--it's not Deviantart or Youtube or anything like that. It's got way too much... soul, I guess, for me to see the VC thing going well for us. We're big enough that our name can mean something, but too small to be able to throw our weight around.

I say no go, but you're better equipped to answer this question than me.

thanks

I don't mind Newgrounds getting über rich. Sure, try it out.

It would be great to see NG take over the internet, but if It does, NG will change A LOT, And there would only be "Yeah, those were the good times" Moments whenever you think about old NG.

50/50

Its a tough decision.

Possible endings

NG Bankrupt (?)

NG Taking over the internet

NG etc.

I just hope that NG ends in a bad way.

NG is my favorite website. :|

At 4/13/12 05:44 PM, Hyrus wrote: The tone of your post is enthusiastic, but for really wonky reasons.

I was being sarcastic because I'm sick of competing with sites that flush unlimited money down the toilet with a big smile while I stress over expenses and ongoing development. I've turned down advances from VC firms for the past decade but because people suggest it and because there IS the chance it could be a good thing, I decided to finally write a post about it.

Wow, i have never such many people on NG is now talking about money.

I hope it is like great for me.

I'd probably say... Don't Invest.

At 4/13/12 05:21 PM, Spretznaz wrote:

At 4/13/12 04:21 PM, MindChamber wrote: No VC.. concentrate on microtransations, to funnel back into turning NG into a platform. Keep NG lean and small, and work hard to make NG the ultimate publisher for developers and artists alike. Steam-squared.

This is one of the best ideas I've heard. You don't have to take VC, and you won't do nothing either. I hate to say it, but this could actually work. You really should make it option number 3

I'm inclined to agree with MindChamber also. VC seems very risky, and the charm of Newgrounds being the website that arose from content like 'Club a Seal' and all the other strange stuff could very well become lost. I think the allure of Newgrounds to begin with would likely have to change, to some degree, if you went the venture capital route, and the allure of Newgrounds is what has kept it afloat to begin with.

I like MindChamber's idea because I'm sure there must be other ways to keep building Newgrounds up while still retaining all of your control over it. It truly is Everything by Everyone right now, and that has always been the essence of this website. I mean, look how far Newgrounds has come over the past ten years. Has the plateau been hit? Are there any other options besides venture capital?

I would only consider the replies that have explanations; I don't think a lot of people who are really gung-ho for the VC option truly understand it (I'm not saying everyone who chose this doesn't have a clue -- but I'm sure a lot don't). As someone else mentioned, I and others are pretty appreciative that you're gathering our opinions on this; I think this is part of the reason we all love this website so much -- because we feel like we are an essential part of it.

whats funny is getting VC would probably put a much needed fire under your ass to get the site running right.
but really at what cost? do you really need VC to see what NG needs?

You dont want to burn the users with a real store and games with microtransations, or even a year subscription. But what do you think VLC will end up making you do in order to get their investment?
That exact same thing.

I know Id gladly pay a year subscription if it mean more programmers at NG getting it to work properly and keep it at the edge of technology, I'm sure others would as well.

Let people pay for their freedom, which they will inevitably lose if you go the VC route.

Oh and Get a manager in there,

you're a great guy Tom, but yah.. let's face it already.

At 4/13/12 05:41 PM, Magical-Zorse wrote: Screw those, turn NG into a pornography website.

Tried it; didn't work.

Anyway: I really do think taking VC would be like balancing NG's future on a knife edge, just for the sake of money that I'm not all that sure you actually need.

I don't know what you mean by "wanting to make something big": With roughly half a million unique hits a day, most people would consider this a pretty damn big website already. Exactly how "big" is big in your eyes? Yes, it's tiny compared to the giants of the internet, but comparing yourself to them is just silly. Newgrounds is a site for people who can actually make interesting things using a computer, as opposed to literally anyone with enough I.T skills to open a browser and make an account on a website.

As such, taking VC would inevitably push it towards being just another generic flash-dump site, since you need no talent at all to upload whatever random shit you find on the internet ala youtube-style buttpiracy. And that would remove the very cornerstone of user-generated content that makes this site unique and special.

Yes, it's easy for us all to sit here and say not to take money, since we're not the ones having to pay your staff's salaries or feed your kids, but from my honest point of view, as long as you can make ends meet, how much need for this type of change is there?

If, and only if, there is a way of doing it on a small scale with no alterations to who owns the site or decides upon its content / developmental direction, then it may be worth the money. However, if it's a case of all-or-nothing, I say nothing. Because, as you've proven for the last 12 years at least, nothing really can be a start point for something far bigger than anyone imagined at the time. As much of a help as I'm sure it is, don't fixate on the idea of NEEDING a large amount of extra money to make this place better. If you were told, as a teenager, that your fanzine website would one day be one of the largest flash sites on the web, would you have believed it?

What benefit (besides personal wealth) would you you and Newgrounds gain from Newgrounds becoming a billion dollar company? You're already living the dream as far as I'm concerned; you have complete creative freedom at a video game company and a website whose community is absolutely amazing. I don't like the idea of adding the goal of "making money" (a shallow goal in my opinion beyond the level of personal comfort) to the website. It's never felt like a website that's cared too much about revenue.

I say reject the venture capital. Small webcomics artists make money off their work through merchandise. What's to stop Newgrounds from expanding more in that direction on its own?

Also, I'd like to point something out. How many websites not only survived but thrived after the dot-com bubble burst? Ebay, Amazon, Google are the only ones that come to mind besides Newgrounds. You've obviously been doing something right, don't let go of whatever that is in pursuit of making the site bigger.

I'm voting no, for reasons shared by many, but since they've already illustrated that point very well, I've nothing to add to it except my opinion.

By the way, I love how you turn to the NG community when you're going to make big decisions like this. Makes us feel so democratic. :D

Can you take the money while still guaranteeing that you retain enough rights to change your mind 10 years down the line after NG has become something you never wanted it to be and bring it back to the way it was before?

Like Gambit said and probably others, I wouldn't take the money unless you were irremovably at the helm.

But at the end I vote no.

You started this bitch from scratch, half the Internet copies you. I say stay the course. Go the distance and become a behemoth (no pun intended) or go down in flames.