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Trayvon Martin case gets Ugly

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djack
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Response to Trayvon Martin case gets Ugly Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 01:15 PM Reply

At 4/13/12 12:46 PM, RacistBassist wrote: It is possible for him to have seen him, therefore, it is implausible that he didn't.

Nice logic. I found last month that there's a 17 year old living literally 2 houses over from me who's lived there for 3 years that I have never seen before.

Are you part of the neighborhood watch? Do you watch the streets on a regular basis for suspicious black people? Zimmerman was and Zimmerman did which decreases the odds of Zimmerman missing Martin's presence. It's still possible for it to have happened but highly improbable.

I always wondered why Martin was there but when I didn't see it in any of the articles I read I didn't bother asking here. I was in the middle of an argument and I doubt adr or racist would have had a problem using more conjecture to claim that Martin was a criminal to try justifying Zimmerman's actions.
Nah, nothing Trayvon did was illegal, only suspicious. That means fuck all though.

It's not all that suspicious with the whole story there. Martin was wearing a hoodie to avoid getting wet in the rain, and he was going back to a house close enough to that neighborhood that Martin would have been aware of the recent criminal activity and that's why he was looking around, to make sure no one was approaching. Then Zimmerman starts following Martin in his truck which would look suspicious to Martin and when he runs Zimmerman chases after him. Zimmerman's actions look so much like a gang initiation that had there been police watching the whole thing they would have arrested Zimmerman when he got out of his truck. The only thing suspicious about Martin was the fact that he's black and Zimmerman thinks all black people are criminals.

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Response to Trayvon Martin case gets Ugly Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 03:20 PM Reply

At 4/12/12 01:41 PM, djack wrote:
Zimmerman doesn't have to be a god to have seen Martin passing through less than half an hour ...

if the neighborhood was a row of houses on a single street, yeah. don't assume this is so. Also, did Trayvon live there? no. he was visiting his dads woman.

I always wondered why Martin was there but when I didn't see it in any of the articles I read I didn't bother asking here. I was in the middle of an argument and I doubt adr or racist would have had a problem using more conjecture to claim that Martin was a criminal to try justifying Zimmerman's actions.

*shrug* if only we had a map, it might shed a little light on some possibilities, or remove a few.


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Response to Trayvon Martin case gets Ugly Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 03:22 PM Reply

At 4/13/12 01:15 PM, djack wrote: Are you part of the neighborhood watch? Do you watch the streets on a regular basis for suspicious black people? Zimmerman was and Zimmerman did which decreases the odds of Zimmerman missing Martin's presence. It's still possible for it to have happened but highly improbable.

What is the relevance of me being part of a neighborhood watch? Zimmerman was part of it, yes, and one of the things about this case is that Trayvon is not a regular to that vicinity. So, you know, it isn't unlikely that in a neighborhood you won't see one person if they walked through it. Zimmerman is not omniscient.

It's not all that suspicious with the whole story there. Martin was wearing a hoodie to avoid getting wet in the rain, and he was going back to a house close enough to that neighborhood that Martin would have been aware of the recent criminal activity and that's why he was looking around, to make sure no one was approaching. Then Zimmerman starts following Martin in his truck which would look suspicious to Martin and when he runs Zimmerman chases after him. Zimmerman's actions look so much like a gang initiation that had there been police watching the whole thing they would have arrested Zimmerman when he got out of his truck. The only thing suspicious about Martin was the fact that he's black and Zimmerman thinks all black people are criminals.

Here's the thing though, why would Trayvon know about the break ins? I don't go straight to telling my sister when she comes over every now and then that "oh yeah, somebody had a house broken into, so you better watch out." Also, nice, 100% conjecture you have going. Zimmerman thinks all blacks are criminals? Don't make me laugh, you only show just how ignorant you are regarding this case. If I see a teen who isn't either white, poly, or black and I do not know them, I wonder who the hell they are, considering I never seen them in the neighborhood before and that they don't fit the normal breakdown.


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Response to Trayvon Martin case gets Ugly Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 04:47 PM Reply

At 4/13/12 03:22 PM, RacistBassist wrote: What is the relevance of me being part of a neighborhood watch? Zimmerman was part of it, yes, and one of the things about this case is that Trayvon is not a regular to that vicinity. So, you know, it isn't unlikely that in a neighborhood you won't see one person if they walked through it. Zimmerman is not omniscient.

The relevance is that people in the neighborhood watch actively WATCH the neighborhood and know the comings and goings of people in the area. I don't know the faces of people living in more than 4 of the houses in my neighborhood which probably has about 20 houses in it or the faces of people who regularly pass through but I'm also not regularly watching the street to watch out for criminals. Like I said, Martin had to have been in that neighborhood before if he knew his way around well enough to be able to navigate the streets at night and since he was returning from a convenience store he had to have passed through that neighborhood very recently.

Here's the thing though, why would Trayvon know about the break ins? I don't go straight to telling my sister when she comes over every now and then that "oh yeah, somebody had a house broken into, so you better watch out." Also, nice, 100% conjecture you have going. Zimmerman thinks all blacks are criminals? Don't make me laugh, you only show just how ignorant you are regarding this case. If I see a teen who isn't either white, poly, or black and I do not know them, I wonder who the hell they are, considering I never seen them in the neighborhood before and that they don't fit the normal breakdown.

He would know because he was going out at night and any reasonable person would warn him that there were crimes recently committed in the area so that he would know to be careful. It's also not conjecture that Zimmerman thinks black people are criminals, he has a history of racial profiling including telling other members of the neighborhood watch that they should keep an eye out for blacks. That was a big part of why people think this could have been a hate crime.

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Response to Trayvon Martin case gets Ugly Apr. 13th, 2012 @ 05:25 PM Reply

At 4/13/12 04:47 PM, djack wrote: The relevance is that people in the neighborhood watch actively WATCH the neighborhood and know the comings and goings of people in the area. I don't know the faces of people living in more than 4 of the houses in my neighborhood which probably has about 20 houses in it or the faces of people who regularly pass through but I'm also not regularly watching the street to watch out for criminals. Like I said, Martin had to have been in that neighborhood before if he knew his way around well enough to be able to navigate the streets at night and since he was returning from a convenience store he had to have passed through that neighborhood very recently.

Trayvon is not a regular.
Zimmerman is not the only member.
Zimmerman is not omniscient

Yet somehow, it's deemed implausible that Zimmerman did not recognize Trayvon (Which if he didn't, and the guy was looking around, would be quite suspicious.

Shit, I can navigate pretty much every neighborhood near where I live and a few in other cities at night with absolutely zero problem. I rarely go through them. It isn't exactly that hard to navigate a neighborhood. Especially if you're going prom point A to B to A and you have a passing association with the area. Here's the thing about Neighborhood watchmen driving in vehicles. They tend to move.

He would know because he was going out at night and any reasonable person would warn him that there were crimes recently committed in the area so that he would know to be careful. It's also not conjecture that Zimmerman thinks black people are criminals, he has a history of racial profiling including telling other members of the neighborhood watch that they should keep an eye out for blacks. That was a big part of why people think this could have been a hate crime.

What reasonable people? The reasonable parents who sent him somewhere else to deal with him? The reasonable people who waited until the next day to report their son not coming home or attempting to contact him? Crimes are committed all of the time. You do not need to drill it into peoples heads every time you see them that crimes occur. There is almost no point to tell somebody walking at 7:00 at night that break ins have been occurring, especially to a young man. What is the racial breakdown of the neighborhood? Asians are rare in my area, so if I saw some walking down the street, then yeah, it would be a bit out of the norm and to keep an eye out, especially (Well, just about only) if they are teenagers.


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Response to Trayvon Martin case gets Ugly Apr. 14th, 2012 @ 11:01 AM Reply

A pretty good article desribing the "Stand Your Groubnd" law of Lorida, how it applies to this case, and whether it is needed at all.

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Response to Trayvon Martin case gets Ugly Apr. 27th, 2012 @ 09:49 PM Reply

At 4/21/12 09:49 PM, RacistBassist wrote:
Hai thar

*notes the deafening silence* *nods*

The "Zimmerman must die" crowd doesn't like how it's developing, given that the charge of 2nd degree murder is going to play right into the hands of Zimmerman's lawyer who is going to walk away a winner by pointing to the picture in the video you posted. so now the case is going to seep through the cracks of the media and become silent and by time it actually DOES go to trial next year, no one will remember it.

when it looked like Zimmerman, the fat ugly white guy shot Trayvon, the babyface black guy for no reason, the libs and media were all over it, like a flock of vultures pecking at a paralyzed animal. Now that its beginning to look more and more like Zimmerman may actually have shot him in self defense, that babyface got aggressive and there isn't much besides his girlfriend (who has an interest in seeing Zimmerman put away because 1. he's white and 2. he shot her boyfriend.) telling the cops what Trayvon said before the phone went dead. Now they are backing away from it and it'll eventually receive media blackout.


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Response to Trayvon Martin case gets Ugly Apr. 27th, 2012 @ 10:26 PM Reply

At 4/27/12 09:49 PM, Korriken wrote:
At 4/21/12 09:49 PM, RacistBassist wrote:
Hai thar
*notes the deafening silence* *nods*

I can be coy, too, y'know.

The "Zimmerman must die" crowd doesn't like how it's developing, given that the charge of 2nd degree murder is going to play right into the hands of Zimmerman's lawyer who is going to walk away a winner by pointing to the picture in the video you posted. so now the case is going to seep through the cracks of the media and become silent and by time it actually DOES go to trial next year, no one will remember it.

Well you've certainly made up your mind about this case. Why is that?

when it looked like Zimmerman, the fat ugly white guy shot Trayvon,

I think I see where you're going with this...

babyface

ahaha, called it.

the libs and media were all over it,

This is a recurring phrase. I don't quite understand it. Who is the "media?" Why do the "media" have it in for Zimmerman? Do you really think Zummerman is the victim here? Boy do I have lots of questions for you!

Now that its beginning to look more and more like Zimmerman may actually have shot him in self defense, that babyface got aggressive and there isn't much besides his girlfriend (who has an interest in seeing Zimmerman put away because 1. he's white and 2. he shot her boyfriend.) telling the cops what Trayvon said before the phone went dead. Now they are backing away from it and it'll eventually receive media blackout.

Really? Wow, this is straight out of freep. Have you listened to the phone call, at all? Just wondering. I'm trying to gauge where your level of understanding is on this case.

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Response to Trayvon Martin case gets Ugly Apr. 27th, 2012 @ 10:34 PM Reply

At 4/27/12 10:26 PM, Feoric wrote: I can be coy, too, y'know.

Let's compare notes, savvy?

On one hand, we have pictures that definitely strengthen the self defense claim

On the other hand, we have something that means fuck all to the case.

Well you've certainly made up your mind about this case. Why is that?

The video. The editing of audio. Witness reports. Police reports. Photo evidence

I think I see where you're going with this...

ahaha, called it.

the libs and media were all over it,
This is a recurring phrase. I don't quite understand it. Who is the "media?" Why do the "media" have it in for Zimmerman? Do you really think Zummerman is the victim here? Boy do I have lots of questions for you!

You know, the notably left slanting media, with a few exceptions that are just as bad but towards the other side?

Simple, sensationalism sells, especially race sensationalism.

Really? Wow, this is straight out of freep. Have you listened to the phone call, at all? Just wondering. I'm trying to gauge where your level of understanding is on this case.

Which phone call? The one that was edited? Or the one that hasn't yet been released, and the only person whose word we have is a close associate of Trayvon, who has been quiet about the case?


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Response to Trayvon Martin case gets Ugly Apr. 27th, 2012 @ 11:00 PM Reply

At 4/27/12 10:34 PM, RacistBassist wrote: Let's compare notes, savvy?

On one hand, we have pictures that definitely strengthen the self defense claim

On the other hand, we have something that means fuck all to the case.

You think so? You don't think this says anything about his character? Or do you not care about anything that happens outside of what would be permissible in court? You don't care that the dude has made over $200,000 bucks and endorsed vandalism on the side of Ohio State UniversityâEUTMs black cultural center? You think the wall these kids chose to vandalize was some sort of freaky coincidence? You think this means fuck all in the grand scheme of things? Okay....

Which phone call? The one that was edited? Or the one that hasn't yet been released, and the only person whose word we have is a close associate of Trayvon, who has been quiet about the case?

Yikes. Well, okay, but let's be consistent. If you're going to say that then you have to be a devil's advocate about every piece of evidence released so far.

Trayvon Martin case gets Ugly

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Response to Trayvon Martin case gets Ugly Apr. 27th, 2012 @ 11:11 PM Reply

At 4/27/12 11:00 PM, Feoric wrote: You think so? You don't think this says anything about his character? Or do you not care about anything that happens outside of what would be permissible in court? You don't care that the dude has made over $200,000 bucks and endorsed vandalism on the side of Ohio State UniversityâEUTMs black cultural center? You think the wall these kids chose to vandalize was some sort of freaky coincidence? You think this means fuck all in the grand scheme of things? Okay....

Oh look, more character assassination. Zimmerman saw people supporting him. He posted the pictures. You really think he took the time to find out what specific brick wall that was? Also, I don't care how much money he gets. The media preemptively did character assassination and led a crusade against him, and fuck, turned out they were wrong about quite a bit. You see, you keep changing what we're talking about. First it's about the vandalism and the case. Now it's about the location chosen and Zimmermans character. I wouldn't give two single fucks if Zimmerman started saying how happy he was he put a criminal down. It wouldn't mean shit to the pure, unadulterated, facts regarding this case and his self defense claim.

Yikes. Well, okay, but let's be consistent. If you're going to say that then you have to be a devil's advocate about every piece of evidence released so far.

Which phone call are you referring to? The one that was edited, the witnesses, or the one that wasn't released?


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Response to Trayvon Martin case gets Ugly Apr. 27th, 2012 @ 11:36 PM Reply

At 4/27/12 10:26 PM, Feoric wrote:
I can be coy, too, y'know.

if you say so.

Well you've certainly made up your mind about this case. Why is that?

Simple.
they had to get rid of the guy doing his job and bring in a "special" prosecutor to ensure he gets charged. She turns around and and instead of bringing up a a charge that would make sense, like manslaughter, she brings up 2nd degree murder. personally, I'm slightly amused by that. to convict someone on a murder charge you have to have a motive for murder. now the prosecution has to prove their case. Zimmerman doesn't have to prove anything. Unless Zimmerman's lawyer is a total idiot (not likely) he's going to win.

I think I see where you're going with this...
ahaha, called it.

whatever. we all know the media is crazy for people with pretty faces, kinda like the whole Caylee Anthony deal.

This is a recurring phrase. I don't quite understand it. Who is the "media?" Why do the "media" have it in for Zimmerman? Do you really think Zummerman is the victim here? Boy do I have lots of questions for you!

You know damn well what I'm talking about. don't be stupid.

Really? Wow, this is straight out of freep. Have you listened to the phone call, at all? Just wondering. I'm trying to gauge where your level of understanding is on this case.

the one between Trayvon and the girl? given that it wasn't recorded, it has no weight in the case at all. Hearsay is not admissible.

You think so? You don't think this says anything about his character?

Don't even go this route. Courts don't convict people on their character.

Or do you not care about anything that happens outside of what would be permissible in court?

in a court case? no.

You don't care that the dude has made over $200,000 bucks

so? gotta raise money for a defense fund somehow. course, those who want him convicted so bad they're frothing like a bunch of rabid hounds are screaming for that money to be taken so he can't mount any sort of defense.

and endorsed vandalism on the side of Ohio State UniversityâEUTMs black cultural center? You think the wall these kids chose to vandalize was some sort of freaky coincidence?

ok, exactly when he did say, "go forth my minions and vandalize Ohio State University's black cultural center!"?

You think this means fuck all in the grand scheme of things? Okay....

not at all


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Response to Trayvon Martin case gets Ugly Apr. 27th, 2012 @ 11:45 PM Reply

At 4/27/12 11:11 PM, RacistBassist wrote: Oh look, more character assassination. Zimmerman saw people supporting him. He posted the pictures. You really think he took the time to find out what specific brick wall that was?

You know, I think it's important to point out a minor difference between showing, like, scanned papers of supportive letters or making a blog showing some flattering emails you've received and posting a picture of a vandalized wall with your name on it. Do you really think this doesn't reflect poorly of him? Glorifying a bunch of actual punks (the same kind of punks that apparently were roaming around his neighborhood which inspired him to become a neighborhood watchdog?) committing a misdemeanor? You think he didn't know an illegal action took place when he posted that pic? And your gut reaction is to shoot this down as "character assassination?" Really, dude? I'm kind of liking the whole "Well he put up pictures of vandalism of a black student center and surely he must have stumbled onto the picture without knowing the context, even though when it came out it took about fifteen minutes for everyone else to realize where it came from" thing.

The media preemptively did character assassination and led a crusade against him, and fuck, turned out they were wrong about quite a bit.

There you go with this whole "media" thing again. I keep pointing out why you should stop doing that, but you keep doing that. Why do you keep doing that? Stop doing that. The "media" has a lot of time to fill with a 24 hour news cycle every day of the year, and yes a lot of it is garbage filler speculation just to get viewers with their controversial guests with glaringly polar opposite views so that there is a nice juicy fight so it'll get lots of youtube hits. I know this. Everyone knows this. This isn't a "crusade" against Zimmerman, it's business as usual for every news station there is. Don't confuse reporters with news personalities, either. This story is getting a lot of media attention and the media is loving every second of it. Can you show me what the "media" has gotten wrong? And don't show me a youtube clip of, like, rachael maddow or whoever. I mean an actual news reporter who gave factually incorrect information. I don't care about some shitty news personality on fox or cnn or msnbc, they're mostly filling time with their opinion anyway.

You see, you keep changing what we're talking about. First it's about the vandalism and the case. Now it's about the location chosen and Zimmermans character.

I keep changing what we're talking about? This is my second post in this thread...this hasn't been a very long discussion. The location of the vandalized wall has some mild significance but, you know....

I wouldn't give two single fucks if Zimmerman started saying how happy he was he put a criminal down. It wouldn't mean shit to the pure, unadulterated, facts regarding this case and his self defense claim.

Really? Self defense? Zimmerman was fearing for his life? That bag of skittles and tea was pretty life threatening, lol. What if the bag of skittles broke open during the supposed altercation? What if all the skittles leaked out of the bag and rolled into Zimmerman's mouth and he started choking? Would there be enough time to wash it down with some Arizona before he asphyxiated? I'm sorry but that is just pure nonsense. Zimmerman pursued Martin when the dispatchers told him not to, and I don't know about you but I don't chase after people when I am fearing for my life because of them, but this is all in that evil edited phone call altered by the libtard media.

Yikes. Well, okay, but let's be consistent. If you're going to say that then you have to be a devil's advocate about every piece of evidence released so far.
Which phone call are you referring to? The one that was edited, the witnesses, or the one that wasn't released?

The evil edited one.

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Response to Trayvon Martin case gets Ugly Apr. 27th, 2012 @ 11:46 PM Reply

oh by the way.. BY THE WAY... This is being ignored in the left sphere of the media. It's been noted that the "special" prosecutor knew about a VERY important piece of evidence (one that supports Zimmerman's side) and left it out of the affidavit. whoops. a poorly handled case become unraveled and naturally, when he is acquitted, shits gonna hit the fan because the fat ugly nasty evil mean racist white guy, George Zimmerman, got away with killing the cute sweet innocent lovable huggable wouldn't-hurt-a-fly black guy Trayvon Martin.

Did I mention that Alan dershowitz is a liberal? yeah, when you got a liberal master of law saying "you fucked up, big time, to the point where it's criminal" you. fucked. up.


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Response to Trayvon Martin case gets Ugly Apr. 27th, 2012 @ 11:56 PM Reply

At 4/27/12 11:45 PM, Feoric wrote: You know, I think it's important to point out a minor difference between showing, like, scanned papers of supportive letters or making a blog showing some flattering emails you've received and posting a picture of a vandalized wall with your name on it. Do you really think this doesn't reflect poorly of him? Glorifying a bunch of actual punks (the same kind of punks that apparently were roaming around his neighborhood which inspired him to become a neighborhood watchdog?) committing a misdemeanor? You think he didn't know an illegal action took place when he posted that pic? And your gut reaction is to shoot this down as "character assassination?" Really, dude? I'm kind of liking the whole "Well he put up pictures of vandalism of a black student center and surely he must have stumbled onto the picture without knowing the context, even though when it came out it took about fifteen minutes for everyone else to realize where it came from" thing.

Let's all equate B&E to a brick wall being spray painted. When I first saw the pic, the first thing that popped into my mind was "Brick wall somewhere" not "Black culture whatever in a state I'm not in at a university I have never seen"

There you go with this whole "media" thing again. I keep pointing out why you should stop doing that, but you keep doing that. Why do you keep doing that? Stop doing that. The "media" has a lot of time to fill with a 24 hour news cycle every day of the year, and yes a lot of it is garbage filler speculation just to get viewers with their controversial guests with glaringly polar opposite views so that there is a nice juicy fight so it'll get lots of youtube hits. I know this. Everyone knows this. This isn't a "crusade" against Zimmerman, it's business as usual for every news station there is. Don't confuse reporters with news personalities, either. This story is getting a lot of media attention and the media is loving every second of it. Can you show me what the "media" has gotten wrong? And don't show me a youtube clip of, like, rachael maddow or whoever. I mean an actual news reporter who gave factually incorrect information. I don't care about some shitty news personality on fox or cnn or msnbc, they're mostly filling time with their opinion anyway.

Them crusading all of the time does not stop it from being a crusade. This isn't like other stories that will take things out of context, or not give the entire story. This is them slandering somebody, not giving both sides while also cutting out pieces of audio, but playing it as if it were whole, purposefully showing pictures that are old, and going pretty much 100% character attacks.

Things the media has gotten wrong:

Nationality
Age of people involved
Legal history of people involved

And all of the lies of omissions that keep occuring.

I keep changing what we're talking about? This is my second post in this thread...this hasn't been a very long discussion. The location of the vandalized wall has some mild significance but, you know....

No. The location of the wall has literally zero significance to the case, outside of a meta how other people reacted way.

Really? Self defense? Zimmerman was fearing for his life? That bag of skittles and tea was pretty life threatening, lol. What if the bag of skittles broke open during the supposed altercation? What if all the skittles leaked out of the bag and rolled into Zimmerman's mouth and he started choking? Would there be enough time to wash it down with some Arizona before he asphyxiated? I'm sorry but that is just pure nonsense. Zimmerman pursued Martin when the dispatchers told him not to, and I don't know about you but I don't chase after people when I am fearing for my life because of them, but this is all in that evil edited phone call altered by the libtard media.

You're a fucking idiot. I'll resort to ad-hominem. Everybody likes talking how Trayvon is unarmed. You know, the football player who is 6'2. The human body can do a lot of fucking damage, especially when bashing of the head is involved. Here's the thing, and it's been over it in this thread before, he was not given an order. Police will say it is not required to pursue somebody to apprehend them, or to even shoot people entering your home like that one single mother did. That does not equate to being given a direct lawful order. I don't fear anybody at first when I see them walking down the street. When they're on top of me bashing my head? well, that's a whole different story now isn't it?

The evil edited one.

So what are you attempting to prove by it?


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Response to Trayvon Martin case gets Ugly Apr. 28th, 2012 @ 12:28 AM Reply

At 4/27/12 11:56 PM, RacistBassist wrote: Let's all equate B&E to a brick wall being spray painted. When I first saw the pic, the first thing that popped into my mind was "Brick wall somewhere" not "Black culture whatever in a state I'm not in at a university I have never seen"

Do you really think Zimmerman doesn't know what vandalism is? Even if you think the "casual observer" would be unaware of the context, why would Zimmerman choose to use those particular images at all? "But, it's vandalism on a wall of a building that I never heard of, so, who gives a shit...."

Them crusading all of the time does not stop it from being a crusade. This isn't like other stories that will take things out of context, or not give the entire story. This is them slandering somebody, not giving both sides while also cutting out pieces of audio, but playing it as if it were whole, purposefully showing pictures that are old, and going pretty much 100% character attacks.

Okay, this isn't a holy war. Let's just call it "news reporting the news in flashy soundbites" and not "crusading". I know the latter is easier to say and has rather deep connotations that incite a certain emotional response, but let's not speak in hyperbole. And yeah, regardless how you feel about Zimmerman (I think we all know where each of us stand here) you cannot deny he is being tried in the court of public opinion. This is one of the most high profile cases in recent american history.

Things the media has gotten wrong:

Nationality
Age of people involved
Legal history of people involved

[citation needed]

And all of the lies of omissions that keep occuring.

[citation needed]

I keep changing what we're talking about? This is my second post in this thread...this hasn't been a very long discussion. The location of the vandalized wall has some mild significance but, you know....
No. The location of the wall has literally zero significance to the case, outside of a meta how other people reacted way.

To the case, no, probably not. In terms of Zimmerman as a person? Kinda.

You're a fucking idiot. I'll resort to ad-hominem. Everybody likes talking how Trayvon is unarmed. You know, the football player who is 6'2. The human body can do a lot of fucking damage, especially when bashing of the head is involved. Here's the thing, and it's been over it in this thread before, he was not given an order. Police will say it is not required to pursue somebody to apprehend them, or to even shoot people entering your home like that one single mother did. That does not equate to being given a direct lawful order. I don't fear anybody at first when I see them walking down the street. When they're on top of me bashing my head? well, that's a whole different story now isn't it?

Who-ho-hooaaah!! You sure have a deep emotional connection to this case. Why? I mean, I have my suspicions (the username RacistBassist kinda raised red flags) but let's keep this rated G!!! Does it matter to you if it was an order or not? He was still advised not to pursue. Why did he pursue? I wouldn't. Why would I pursue someone after I was told that I didn't have to do that? By a 911 dispatcher? Why was Zimmerman not in the hospital if his head was being smashed into pavement by a 6'2" football player? Why was Zimmerman's body found on a lawn? Not anywhere near pavement? I'm assuming because you're going by what Zimmerman's version of events...my question is why? Why be suspicious of Martin's girlfriend and not Zimmerman? He has a lot more a stake here and a much better reason to lie about what happened that night.

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Response to Trayvon Martin case gets Ugly Apr. 28th, 2012 @ 12:31 AM Reply

At 4/28/12 12:28 AM, Feoric wrote: Why was Zimmerman's body found on a lawn?

Whoops, I meant Martin.

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Response to Trayvon Martin case gets Ugly Apr. 28th, 2012 @ 12:36 AM Reply

At 4/28/12 12:28 AM, Feoric wrote: Do you really think Zimmerman doesn't know what vandalism is? Even if you think the "casual observer" would be unaware of the context, why would Zimmerman choose to use those particular images at all? "But, it's vandalism on a wall of a building that I never heard of, so, who gives a shit...."

Why does any group ever take pictures of tagging of their cause, even if they try to be law abiding?

Oh, that's right. Because it is much more powerful.

Okay, this isn't a holy war. Let's just call it "news reporting the news in flashy soundbites" and not "crusading". I know the latter is easier to say and has rather deep connotations that incite a certain emotional response, but let's not speak in hyperbole. And yeah, regardless how you feel about Zimmerman (I think we all know where each of us stand here) you cannot deny he is being tried in the court of public opinion. This is one of the most high profile cases in recent american history.

Colloquialisms are fun. Why is it high profile? Oh, that's right, because people blew it up with misrepresentation of what happened.

Things the media has gotten wrong:

Nationality
Age of people involved
Legal history of people involved
[citation needed]

How dense are you?

They portrayed it as white on black hate crime. The pictures that were outdated. They brought up Zimmermans brush ins with the law, but not mentioning the acquittals.

[citation needed]

How many stations keep reporting without mentioning the pictures taken of the back of Zimmermans head?

To the case, no, probably not. In terms of Zimmerman as a person? Kinda.

Which isn't relevant to the case.

Who-ho-hooaaah!! You sure have a deep emotional connection to this case. Why? I mean, I have my suspicions (the username RacistBassist kinda raised red flags) but let's keep this rated G!!! Does it matter to you if it was an order or not? He was still advised not to pursue. Why did he pursue? I wouldn't. Why would I pursue someone after I was told that I didn't have to do that? By a 911 dispatcher? Why was Zimmerman not in the hospital if his head was being smashed into pavement by a 6'2" football player? Why was Zimmerman's body found on a lawn? Not anywhere near pavement? I'm assuming because you're going by what Zimmerman's version of events...my question is why? Why be suspicious of Martin's girlfriend and not Zimmerman? He has a lot more a stake here and a much better reason to lie about what happened that night.

I'm going to make a drinking game where I take a shot every time somebody mentions my name, without realizing the obvious rhyme. Yes, it really does matter that it wasn't an order. Call the police at any time. Ask them if you should go outside and confront people standing by your house. Ask them if you should intervene in people pushing each other. Ask them if you should execute a citizens arrest on somebody who is committing a crime. They do not give definitive responses. Why did he pursue? To make sure he didn't lose LoS and another break in wouldn't occur. You can opt to be treated on scene and not go to a hospital if the injuries are minor enough. Here's the thing, I don't how things work where you live, but right next to pavement from a sidewalk is usually somebodies yard. The reason I'm going with Zimmerman? Witness corroboration.


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Response to Trayvon Martin case gets Ugly Apr. 28th, 2012 @ 12:58 AM Reply

At 4/28/12 12:36 AM, RacistBassist wrote: Why does any group ever take pictures of tagging of their cause, even if they try to be law abiding?

Oh, that's right. Because it is much more powerful.

I completely agree, vandalizing a black culture center with "long live zimmerman," is very powerful. Zimmerman must have known this, too, since he posted it on his site.

[citation needed]
How dense are you?

I keep asking you repeatedly to cite your claims but you kinda just scoff at me and say "IT'S SO OBVIOUS! JUST GOOGLE IT!" and somehow I'm the dense one here.

How many stations keep reporting without mentioning the pictures taken of the back of Zimmermans head?

I don't fucking know! Jesus assfucking christ! Why don't you tell me?!

To the case, no, probably not. In terms of Zimmerman as a person? Kinda.
Which isn't relevant to the case.

Yeah you can see right there in the text that you quoted from my post i said "To the case, no" but kinda just glazed over the second half of it so uh good job I guess.

I'm going to make a drinking game where I take a shot every time somebody mentions my name,

I'm not one to judge but you'd probably die of alcohol poisoning.

Yes, it really does matter that it wasn't an order. Call the police at any time. Ask them if you should go outside and confront people standing by your house. Ask them if you should intervene in people pushing each other. Ask them if you should execute a citizens arrest on somebody who is committing a crime. They do not give definitive responses.

The words that flew out of the 911 dispatcher's mouth was "you don't have to do that." If I am talking to a 911 dispatcher, someone who is trained in dealing with emergency calls, I would interpret "you don't have to do that" to "you really should leave this to the cops, because you are not a cop."

Why did he pursue? To make sure he didn't lose LoS and another break in wouldn't occur.

You may think that, I think it has more to do with him feeling like a badass on patrol looking for trouble makers. You know, a wannabe cop. Walking around late at night with a gun.

You can opt to be treated on scene and not go to a hospital if the injuries are minor enough.

Well I mean if my head is being bashed on concrete by a babyfaced 6'2" black hooded teenage football playing thug eating skittles, to the point where I fear for my life and literally kill said babyface, then I would assume my injuries would be a but more than minor. More to the point where EMT is literally bound by law to take you to the hospital.

Here's the thing, I don't how things work where you live, but right next to pavement from a sidewalk is usually somebodies yard.

Okay but that implies that the struggle moved from the pavement to the grass. You don't know what happened in between or if Zimmerman had an opportunity to escape the situation he put himself in by chasing after Martin.

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Response to Trayvon Martin case gets Ugly Apr. 28th, 2012 @ 01:17 AM Reply

At 4/28/12 12:58 AM, Feoric wrote: I completely agree, vandalizing a black culture center with "long live zimmerman," is very powerful. Zimmerman must have known this, too, since he posted it on his site.

Right, it is reasonable to assume that Zimmerman would recognize that it was a black culture center that is part of a university he has never been to, with no distinct markings, and without it being a landmark

I keep asking you repeatedly to cite your claims but you kinda just scoff at me and say "IT'S SO OBVIOUS! JUST GOOGLE IT!" and somehow I'm the dense one here.

When you're asking for citations about basics of the cases and anyone with a cursory knowledge of the case can tell you about it, it is just being dense. Go to the wikipedia page. It's a good start.

I don't fucking know! Jesus assfucking christ! Why don't you tell me?!

I am. Few are reporting it. You know, because none of them are doing the honest unbiased reporting?

Yeah you can see right there in the text that you quoted from my post i said "To the case, no" but kinda just glazed over the second half of it so uh good job I guess.

So basically it's a pure character attack

I'm not one to judge but you'd probably die of alcohol poisoning.

Probably.

The words that flew out of the 911 dispatcher's mouth was "you don't have to do that." If I am talking to a 911 dispatcher, someone who is trained in dealing with emergency calls, I would interpret "you don't have to do that" to "you really should leave this to the cops, because you are not a cop."

So basically it all comes down to what you would do. Since when were you the final say on the law and what should and shouldn't be allowed?

You may think that, I think it has more to do with him feeling like a badass on patrol looking for trouble makers. You know, a wannabe cop. Walking around late at night with a gun.

Yeah, a neighborhood watch. You know, considering the several break-ins in the area.

Well I mean if my head is being bashed on concrete by a babyfaced 6'2" black hooded teenage football playing thug eating skittles, to the point where I fear for my life and literally kill said babyface, then I would assume my injuries would be a but more than minor. More to the point where EMT is literally bound by law to take you to the hospital.

Here's the thing, you don't have to actually sustain severe injuries to feel threatened. I can easily shoot somebody who pulled a knife and only got in superficial cuts. Does that mean I wasn't at risk of being stabbed?

Okay but that implies that the struggle moved from the pavement to the grass. You don't know what happened in between or if Zimmerman had an opportunity to escape the situation he put himself in by chasing after Martin.

Or, there's the whole, you know, being shot by a 9mm part of it. Trayvon also had the option to flee before head bash mode.


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Response to Trayvon Martin case gets Ugly Apr. 28th, 2012 @ 01:57 AM Reply

At 4/28/12 01:17 AM, RacistBassist wrote: Right, it is reasonable to assume that Zimmerman would recognize that it was a black culture center that is part of a university he has never been to, with no distinct markings, and without it being a landmark

You can't admit it was a stupid thing to do, can you? ZimmermanâEUTMs supporters insist that this case is not about race, so why were ZimmermanâEUTMs supporters moved to vandalize a black cultural center, and why is Zimmerman endorsing this? What other âEUoedeedsâEU are ZimmermanâEUTMs supporters encouraged to commit in order to leave a âEUoedeep impression?âEU

When you're asking for citations about basics of the cases and anyone with a cursory knowledge of the case can tell you about it, it is just being dense. Go to the wikipedia page. It's a good start.

I'm asking you to cite me specific examples of blatant misinformation reported in the news, and you tell me to go to the wikipedia page. Okay... There is certainly bias (no channel/newspaper/radio is unbiased) but the only example I see here of blatant misinformation is that NBC guy who altered the original 911 call. He was fired for it.

Few are reporting it. You know, because none of them are doing the honest unbiased reporting?

Yeah your posts here are examples of unbiased reporting, lol.

Yeah you can see right there in the text that you quoted from my post i said "To the case, no" but kinda just glazed over the second half of it so uh good job I guess.
So basically it's a pure character attack

If it's not gonna be in the courtroom it's a pure character attack. Got it.

The words that flew out of the 911 dispatcher's mouth was "you don't have to do that." If I am talking to a 911 dispatcher, someone who is trained in dealing with emergency calls, I would interpret "you don't have to do that" to "you really should leave this to the cops, because you are not a cop."
So basically it all comes down to what you would do. Since when were you the final say on the law and what should and shouldn't be allowed?

No, I gave what I thought would be a rational and reasonable thing to assume. I guess not everybody is rational and reasonable.

You may think that, I think it has more to do with him feeling like a badass on patrol looking for trouble makers. You know, a wannabe cop. Walking around late at night with a gun.
Yeah, a neighborhood watch. You know, considering the several break-ins in the area.

Yeah, see what happens when you take the law into your own hands?

Here's the thing, you don't have to actually sustain severe injuries to feel threatened. I can easily shoot somebody who pulled a knife and only got in superficial cuts. Does that mean I wasn't at risk of being stabbed?

Not at all, but you're the one who said his head was being smashed on the pavement, and pointed out to a a picture of his head with blood on it as evidence that he was attacked, so uhh I guess what I'm saying is that sort of injury isn't very consistent with how you described it.

Trayvon also had the option to flee before head bash mode.

You don't even know if that happened.

Oh, and remember earlier when you said you didn't care how much money he raised? Here's a biased article about the nature of that $200k. Not looking good, actually. Bail money is often set based on how much a person is able to pay. Lying to a judge about an extra 200k lying around is a big no no, especially since the original amount was in part based on hardship from losing his job. The lawyer is claiming he had no knowledge of the money during the bail hearing, so lets hope he didn't get a check for 50k.

Look I can drag this on for 20 pages if I need to, but let's just make one thing clear here: none of us, not me, not you, not anyone posting in this thread knows all of the facts. We did not see everything that happened that night, and we may never actually know. The only thing we can do now is analyze the leak of information slowly dripping out from wherever it comes from and make our own theories that sound the most logical and probable, and everybody in american right now has their own idea of what logical and probable is. But one thing is for certain: if Zimmerman really is innocent (or acquitted), his life is essentially ruined and will have hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt due to legal fees and what-have-you. This is objectively wrong no matter what your opinion of the man is. I don't know for 100% certain that Zimmerman is guilty of murder 2 (i certainly THINK he is) but I do know that no matter what the verdict is in this case Zimmerman is absolutely fucked. True. But then I think of Trayvon's family.

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Response to Trayvon Martin case gets Ugly Apr. 28th, 2012 @ 02:13 PM Reply

At 4/28/12 01:57 AM, Feoric wrote: You can't admit it was a stupid thing to do, can you? ZimmermanâEUTMs supporters insist that this case is not about race, so why were ZimmermanâEUTMs supporters moved to vandalize a black cultural center, and why is Zimmerman endorsing this? What other âEUoedeedsâEU are ZimmermanâEUTMs supporters encouraged to commit in order to leave a âEUoedeep impression?âEU

It could have been random. Maybe the culture center organized an anti-Zimmerman march. Maybe a lot of the hoodie protest people were in the building.

I'm asking you to cite me specific examples of blatant misinformation reported in the news, and you tell me to go to the wikipedia page. Okay... There is certainly bias (no channel/newspaper/radio is unbiased) but the only example I see here of blatant misinformation is that NBC guy who altered the original 911 call. He was fired for it.

On the wikipedia page.

Showing old pictures is misinformation
Bringing up arrest record without mentioning the acquittals is misinformation
Reporting he called over 40 times in 1 month is misinformation

Yeah your posts here are examples of unbiased reporting, lol.

Any single station that has used the old pictures. The arrest record. The edited tapes. The lack of bringing up the eye witnesses supporting Zimmerman

If it's not gonna be in the courtroom it's a pure character attack. Got it.

So what was the point if not a direct attack to his character?

No, I gave what I thought would be a rational and reasonable thing to assume. I guess not everybody is rational and reasonable.

You're acting like you're the epitome of logic. When somebody tells you you aren't required to do something, it is not an order to not do it. It's pretty simple.
eak-ins in the area.

Yeah, see what happens when you take the law into your own hands?

Yeah, you end up getting attacked for doing a civic duty.

Not at all, but you're the one who said his head was being smashed on the pavement, and pointed out to a a picture of his head with blood on it as evidence that he was attacked, so uhh I guess what I'm saying is that sort of injury isn't very consistent with how you described it.

Re-read this thread and the one in general. It's been gone over. You can punch something like metal and not receive any damage. More hits increases the chance of damage. You can easily cut your knuckles and bruise them before breaking your hand.

You don't even know if that happened.

No, we do know that happened, judging if what his girlfriend, who is on his side, said is true.

Oh, and remember earlier when you said you didn't care how much money he raised? Here's a biased article about the nature of that $200k. Not looking good, actually. Bail money is often set based on how much a person is able to pay. Lying to a judge about an extra 200k lying around is a big no no, especially since the original amount was in part based on hardship from losing his job. The lawyer is claiming he had no knowledge of the money during the bail hearing, so lets hope he didn't get a check for 50k.

It's very easy to, when you're dealing with courts and locked up, to not know that you are currently receiving donations or the amount of money you are getting. Nobody expected him to get as much as he did. Besides, Zimmerman set it up, not his lawyers.

Look I can drag this on for 20 pages if I need to, but let's just make one thing clear here: none of us, not me, not you, not anyone posting in this thread knows all of the facts. We did not see everything that happened that night, and we may never actually know. The only thing we can do now is analyze the leak of information slowly dripping out from wherever it comes from and make our own theories that sound the most logical and probable, and everybody in american right now has their own idea of what logical and probable is. But one thing is for certain: if Zimmerman really is innocent (or acquitted), his life is essentially ruined and will have hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt due to legal fees and what-have-you. This is objectively wrong no matter what your opinion of the man is. I don't know for 100% certain that Zimmerman is guilty of murder 2 (i certainly THINK he is) but I do know that no matter what the verdict is in this case Zimmerman is absolutely fucked. True. But then I think of Trayvon's family.

I love how the anti-Zimmerman side went from full on crusade against him, to "We don't know all the facts" the moment the audio was found to be edited, the video came out, and the picture of the back of his head came out.


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Response to Trayvon Martin case gets Ugly Apr. 28th, 2012 @ 02:58 PM Reply

At 4/28/12 02:13 PM, RacistBassist wrote: It could have been random. Maybe the culture center organized an anti-Zimmerman march. Maybe a lot of the hoodie protest people were in the building.

So you just defended the fact that it was vandalized with a hypothetical situation where the cultural center organized an anti-zimmerman march (it didn't), and justified the graffiti because of retaliation from a pro-zimmerman group? Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?

Showing old pictures is misinformation

No it isn't.

Bringing up arrest record without mentioning the acquittals is misinformation

No it isn't.

Reporting he called over 40 times in 1 month is misinformation

Yes it is.

Any single station that has used the old pictures. The arrest record. The edited tapes. The lack of bringing up the eye witnesses supporting Zimmerman

Misleading is not misinformation. That actually WAS a picture of Martin, right? You know the picture, the one where he looked like a babyface. Not the big huge black football player picture. It isn't misinformation, you just know how people are going to perceive it (innocent looking black kid) which goes against your own idea (trouble making blackie, which is better represented in the "newer" pics),

So what was the point if not a direct attack to his character?

Do you not understand what it says about someone who thanks a bunch of people for vandalizing property in his name? Are you really not getting this?

You're acting like you're the epitome of logic. When somebody tells you you aren't required to do something, it is not an order to not do it. It's pretty simple.

That's how you want to perceive me, which fine, but it's also wrong. I kinda already explained how I totally understand it's not an order, but it's still something you should strongly consider, especially who it's coming from (a trained 911 dispatcher).

Yeah, see what happens when you take the law into your own hands?
Yeah, you end up getting attacked for doing a civic duty.

No, you get accused of wrongly killed a 17 year old child.

Re-read this thread and the one in general. It's been gone over. You can punch something like metal and not receive any damage. More hits increases the chance of damage. You can easily cut your knuckles and bruise them before breaking your hand.

Concrete is a completely different material than metal, number one. Number two, the amount of force in a punch and the force when your head is being smashed into concrete by a person is two completely, incomparable things. There would be massive head trauma if he was being smashed into the concrete to the point of him fearing his life.

You don't even know if that happened.
No, we do know that happened, judging if what his girlfriend, who is on his side, said is true.

You literally just said "we know it's true if this thing she said is true." What if it isn't true? We don't know it's true.

It's very easy to, when you're dealing with courts and locked up, to not know that you are currently receiving donations or the amount of money you are getting. Nobody expected him to get as much as he did. Besides, Zimmerman set it up, not his lawyers.

It says in the article that he was spending the money. It's in a paypal account. He absolutely knew how much money he had.

I love how the anti-Zimmerman side went from full on crusade against him, to "We don't know all the facts" the moment the audio was found to be edited, the video came out, and the picture of the back of his head came out.

I actually wrote that piece so we could find common ground, but I guess you're a contrarian just for the sake of being a contrarian. There you go with the word "crusade" again. Very charged. Anyway, you seem to think I'm picking a "side" here. Like, being anti-zimmerman is some ingroup you join solely just to join a tribe or something. It isn't. I don't think his version of events make sense. The things he has been doing haven't been making sense. Stand Your Ground doesn't apply. He did something he was told he didn't have to do, and a 17 year old kid was killed because of it. The kid was looking for his father's house. Zimmerman was suspicious of him because he was a young black kid wearing a hoodie in a gated community.

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Response to Trayvon Martin case gets Ugly Apr. 28th, 2012 @ 04:34 PM Reply

At 4/28/12 02:58 PM, Feoric wrote:
Showing old pictures is misinformation
No it isn't.

Bringing up arrest record without mentioning the acquittals is misinformation
No it isn't.

yes, they are.

that has used the old pictures. The arrest record. The edited tapes. The lack of bringing up the eye witnesses supporting Zimmerman

Misleading is not misinformation. That actually WAS a picture of Martin, right?

an old picture, used to get a "omfg this guy couldn't hurt a fly, how dare zimmerman shoot him!" reaction. If you are 60 years old, apply to a modelling agency with a face that looks like hamburger meat, and give them a photo shortly after you turned 18, is that misinformation? it IS a picture of YOU afterall. yes, it is misinformation because that is not what you look like anymore.

You know the picture, the one where he looked like a babyface. Not the big huge black football player picture. It isn't misinformation, you just know how people are going to perceive it (innocent looking black kid) which goes against your own idea (trouble making blackie, which is better represented in the "newer" pics),

Newer pics are more accurate. the fact the media didn't pull the old pic in light of the new one is misleading and its misinformation.

Do you not understand what it says about someone who thanks a bunch of people for vandalizing property in his name? Are you really not getting this?

I understand it has no bearing in court.

That's how you want to perceive me, which fine, but it's also wrong. I kinda already explained how I totally understand it's not an order, but it's still something you should strongly consider, especially who it's coming from (a trained 911 dispatcher).
No, you get accused of wrongly killed a 17 year old child.

maybe Zimmerman should have put his hands on front of his face, called for help as Martin was beating his head against the ground, instead of defending himself against Babyface Martin.

Concrete is a completely different material than metal, number one. Number two, the amount of force in a punch and the force when your head is being smashed into concrete by a person is two completely, incomparable things. There would be massive head trauma if he was being smashed into the concrete to the point of him fearing his life.

hotdog/corndog. also, having your head slammed against the grass won't make your head bleed unless there is something in the grass that your head is being slammed on. I should know I've had my head slammed against many things in fights. never once did grass draw blood.

I love how the anti-Zimmerman side went from full on crusade against him, to "We don't know all the facts" the moment the audio was found to be edited, the video came out, and the picture of the back of his head came out.
I actually wrote that piece so we could find common ground, but I guess you're a contrarian just for the sake of being a contrarian. There you go with the word "crusade" again. Very charged.

accurate as well.

Anyway, you seem to think I'm picking a "side" here. Like, being anti-zimmerman is some ingroup you join solely just to join a tribe or something. It isn't. I don't think his version of events make sense. The things he has been doing haven't been making sense. Stand Your Ground doesn't apply.

if Trayvon Martin took the first swing, it applies.

He did something he was told he didn't have to do,

irrelevant. being told "you don't have to" isn't the same as "don't do it" the dispatcher can't tell you to do or not to do anything. they can only give you a suggestion which you do not have to follow.

and a 17 year old kid was killed because of it.

if the 17 year old kid attacked first, he got himself killed.

The kid was looking for his father's house. Zimmerman was suspicious of him because he was a young black kid wearing a hoodie in a gated community.

Or perhaps he was suspicious of him because criminals very often wear hoodies to help conceal their identity and there had been a string of burglaries in the area. I love how you are "undecided" and yet insist he went after and eventually shot martin because he was black.

you suck at hiding bias.


I'm not crazy, everyone else is.

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Response to Trayvon Martin case gets Ugly Apr. 28th, 2012 @ 05:19 PM Reply

At 4/28/12 04:34 PM, Korriken wrote: yes, they are.

Just because you would like to think it is to better fit your narrative doesn't mean it is.

that has used the old pictures. The arrest record. The edited tapes. The lack of bringing up the eye witnesses supporting Zimmerman

Misleading is not misinformation. That actually WAS a picture of Martin, right?
an old picture, used to get a "omfg this guy couldn't hurt a fly, how dare zimmerman shoot him!" reaction.

Yeah I know, I kinda explained right after that sentence, but you conveniently ignored it.

If you are 60 years old, apply to a modelling agency with a face that looks like hamburger meat, and give them a photo shortly after you turned 18, is that misinformation? it IS a picture of YOU afterall. yes, it is misinformation because that is not what you look like anymore.

What? How is that analogy applicable at all? How does auditioning for a photo shoot have to do with what picture a news story runs with? How old was he in that picture? You're comparing a 60 year old woman sending in a photo of her on her 18th birthday for a modelling company? How did you think this was at all the same thing? And honestly your outrage over the picture is kinda disturbing. You're critical of the collective media for using this picture because he looks....like a nice young man? That's your argument? I mean it's one thing to point out WHY they would use that picture, but to get disgusted with it? You're upset that people think Martin looks like a nice young man? Why? Is it because you would rather him look like this?

Newer pics are more accurate. the fact the media didn't pull the old pic in light of the new one is misleading and its misinformation.

Misinformation is not the same as Disinformation. I should have used Misinformation vs Disinformation instead of misleading vs misinformation, my error.

I understand it has no bearing in court.

This has been established many many times. By me. Why not instead talk about the bearing it has on himself?

maybe Zimmerman should have put his hands on front of his face, called for help as Martin was beating his head against the ground, instead of defending himself against Babyface Martin.

You're assuming that the beating even took place, which we don't know. I mean I know you're never going to be skeptical over whether or not it happened because I know it's essential for your narrative that he was being viciously beaten but I would at least like to make you ponder the possibility before blocking it out of your head.

hotdog/corndog.

Not at all, I know it's frustrating to have your arguments picked apart but c'mon, let's not just fall back on "it's just semantics!" or "character assassination!" or "apples and oranges!" because that's just intellectually lazy.

also, having your head slammed against the grass won't make your head bleed unless there is something in the grass that your head is being slammed on. I should know I've had my head slammed against many things in fights. never once did grass draw blood.

That sucks, Zimmerman told police he has his head slammed against concrete, not grass.

irrelevant. being told "you don't have to" isn't the same as "don't do it" the dispatcher can't tell you to do or not to do anything. they can only give you a suggestion which you do not have to follow.

How is it irrelevant? I have explained very clearly that I understand he was not given and order.What I am saying is, if I was patrolling my neighborhood, and I see suspicious activity, and I am on the phone with a dispatcher to report said suspicious activity, and the suspicious person in question starts running, and the dispatcher (who is trained to handle emergency calls says to me you don't have to do that I am going to follow the suggestion. I certainly know I have the option to disregard, but why would I? The cops are on the way. The dispatcher advised me not to.

if the 17 year old kid attacked first, he got himself killed.

Y'know, it doesn't really work that way. Actually it doesn't even apply.

Or perhaps he was suspicious of him because criminals very often wear hoodies to help conceal their identity and there had been a string of burglaries in the area. I love how you are "undecided" and yet insist he went after and eventually shot martin because he was black.

Undecided? No. I have varying degrees of certainty over what happened that night. I also know that I reserve the right to be completely wrong. We all do. This isn't a courtroom and I'm not on a jury.

you suck at hiding bias.

This is coming from the guy who went on a silly tirade against liberals that wasn't even worth responding to.

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Response to Trayvon Martin case gets Ugly Apr. 28th, 2012 @ 05:29 PM Reply

At 4/28/12 02:58 PM, Feoric wrote: So you just defended the fact that it was vandalized with a hypothetical situation where the cultural center organized an anti-zimmerman march (it didn't), and justified the graffiti because of retaliation from a pro-zimmerman group? Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?

Asks what possible reasons could have been
Says person is defending

No it isn't.

Yes, it quite literally is. When saying "teen" and then showing when he was in his early teens, it is extremely misleading.

No it isn't.

It's a character attack that neglects context and what actually happened

Misleading is not misinformation. That actually WAS a picture of Martin, right? You know the picture, the one where he looked like a babyface. Not the big huge black football player picture. It isn't misinformation, you just know how people are going to perceive it (innocent looking black kid) which goes against your own idea (trouble making blackie, which is better represented in the "newer" pics),

You're right. What is happening is disinformation, not misinformation. I apologize for that. Purposefully showing several year old pictures is a huge example of media bias and attempting to steer public perception.

Do you not understand what it says about someone who thanks a bunch of people for vandalizing property in his name? Are you really not getting this?

Let's apply Occam's Razor for a second. What seems more likely, that he knew specifically where the graffiti was, and that he was happy the black culture center was the target, or he just picked a picture that said justice for him. What does it say about those against him who are ok with the hit on him? The random beatings that have been done in Trayvons memory?

That's how you want to perceive me, which fine, but it's also wrong. I kinda already explained how I totally understand it's not an order, but it's still something you should strongly consider, especially who it's coming from (a trained 911 dispatcher).

Says they understand it's not an order
Calls it an order

Trained 9-11 dispatcher? You're acting like they are an actual officer with authority and not just a relay of information.

No, you get accused of wrongly killed a 17 year old child.

So basically since bad things sometimes happen we should never do that thing. We should never drive cars since you might get in an accident where you aren't at fault

Concrete is a completely different material than metal, number one. Number two, the amount of force in a punch and the force when your head is being smashed into concrete by a person is two completely, incomparable things. There would be massive head trauma if he was being smashed into the concrete to the point of him fearing his life.

I'm sorry, but getting your head smashed once with the other person showing no intent to stop is easily enough justification to fear for your life. Have you ever hit your head on concrete, for whatever reason? It's very easy to not get injured from it. It is also very easy to end up injured from it. Same thing with being cut by a knife. You can easily sustain only very minor injuries, but that does not mean the threat still is not there.

You literally just said "we know it's true if this thing she said is true." What if it isn't true? We don't know it's true.

Here's the deal. We either have his girlfriend telling the truth and Trayvon not running. Or we have his girlfriend lying and nobody knows what happened at that point.

It says in the article that he was spending the money. It's in a paypal account. He absolutely knew how much money he had.

Because as we all know, you have access to your paypal account while in jail. Yes, now he is using that money. Probably for defense funds, the bail, or just living considering his entire life is a wreck right now.

I actually wrote that piece so we could find common ground, but I guess you're a contrarian just for the sake of being a contrarian. There you go with the word "crusade" again. Very charged. Anyway, you seem to think I'm picking a "side" here. Like, being anti-zimmerman is some ingroup you join solely just to join a tribe or something. It isn't. I don't think his version of events make sense. The things he has been doing haven't been making sense. Stand Your Ground doesn't apply. He did something he was told he didn't have to do, and a 17 year old kid was killed because of it. The kid was looking for his father's house. Zimmerman was suspicious of him because he was a young black kid wearing a hoodie in a gated community.

Ok, let me use the non-charged variant. The media purposefully spread disinformation and was quick to judgement and attempted to sway public opinion before all the facts came forward. Now, which is quicker for the sake of everybody, what I just typed, or calling it a crusade? I guess I could call it a jihad, witch hunt, or some sort of McCarthy reference, but crusade is just oh so much funner. What doesn't make sense about his version of the story? What doesn't make sense about what he has been doing? (going into hiding and setting up a defense fund is perfectly normal) SYG does apply so far, unless the girlfriends phone call brings new light to the case. Being told you don't have to do something does not mean that it is an order, nor does it imply guilt. If I see a purse snatching, every single cop in the world would say you are not required to attempt to stop the thief if they are running away towards your direction. If something happens between you two and you end up shooting the person, that does not make you liable. Zimmerman was suspicious because he matched the description of several previous break-ins in his area, and it was a kid he never seen before in his area. Him being black had absolutely zero to do with it besides the previous break-in having somebody match a similar description. If there wasn't that previous break-in by a tall young black male, then sure, it'd probably be racially profiling. But, considering that someone with a similar description did it, that goes out the window.


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Response to Trayvon Martin case gets Ugly Apr. 28th, 2012 @ 05:40 PM Reply

At 4/28/12 05:19 PM, Feoric wrote:
At 4/28/12 04:34 PM, Korriken wrote: yes, they are.
Just because you would like to think it is to better fit your narrative doesn't mean it is.
What? How is that analogy applicable at all? How does auditioning for a photo shoot have to do with what picture a news story runs with?

it's more closely related than you think. they depicted martin as a featherweight 4 foot tall boy. he was depicted as weak and helpless when it was obviously not the case. and it was done intentionally. misinformation at its finest.

How old was he in that picture?

he looked about 12-14, which funny enough most people thought he was 14 in the beginning until it turned out his age was 17.

You're comparing a 60 year old woman sending in a photo of her on her 18th birthday for a modelling company?

if you're 60 years old and want the modelling company to think you're hot enough for a face to face interview...

How did you think this was at all the same thing?

simple. its called misleading the target audience with fraudulent information.

And honestly your outrage over the picture is kinda disturbing. You're critical of the collective media for using this picture because he looks....like a nice young man? That's your argument?

if it was a current picture, I would say "well, that's his current picture." you want my argument? let's see you answer this question without resorting to trying to appeal to emotions and sidestepping it. "Why did the media, even after getting a current picture of Trayvon, continue to use the babyface picture?"

I mean it's one thing to point out WHY they would use that picture, but to get disgusted with it? You're upset that people think Martin looks like a nice young man? Why? Is it because you would rather him look like this?

if that was an accurate, current picture? yes. Yes I would. Of course, I see what you did there.

Misinformation is not the same as Disinformation. I should have used Misinformation vs Disinformation instead of misleading vs misinformation, my error.

the point is, Journalists, those who job it is to report the news in a fair, unbiased, and accurate way are knowingly using old information and leaving out key information to paint a skewed picture of the situation.


I understand it has no bearing in court.
This has been established many many times. By me. Why not instead talk about the bearing it has on himself?

None. there's your answer.

You're assuming that the beating even took place, which we don't know.
I mean I know you're never going to be skeptical over whether or not it happened because I know it's essential for your narrative that he was being viciously beaten but I would at least like to make you ponder the possibility before blocking it out of your head.

I would say the picture of the back of his head, the picture which had a time AND gps coordinate stamp, proving that it was taken just after the gun went off, before cops could arrive and paramedics could clean his head is pretty solid proof that something happened. Also, the guy who took the picture noted the gunpowder burns on Martin's clothes, which is a solid indication that the shot happened at very close range, as in, hand to hand combat range. so yeah, the fight happened. do your homework and drop the emotional appeal.

Not at all, I know it's frustrating to have your arguments picked apart but c'mon, let's not just fall back on "it's just semantics!" or "character assassination!" or "apples and oranges!" because that's just intellectually lazy.

or its pointless.

That sucks, Zimmerman told police he has his head slammed against concrete, not grass.

well, there is that picture the "zimmerman must die" crowd didn't want to see ("graphic" image aka there's some blood on his head)

if I was patrolling my neighborhood, and I see suspicious activity, and I am on the phone with a dispatcher to report said suspicious activity, and the suspicious person in question starts running, and the dispatcher (who is trained to handle emergency calls says to me you don't have to do that I am going to follow the suggestion. I certainly know I have the option to disregard, but why would I? The cops are on the way. The dispatcher advised me not to.

to keep him in your sight so he doesn't find a good hiding place and wait out the cops and then commit his crime?


if the 17 year old kid attacked first, he got himself killed.
Y'know, it doesn't really work that way. Actually it doesn't even apply.

it does. stand your ground law is pretty clear on the "if you're attacked, you're not required to try and flee first" aspect. he was not required to try and get away first, not that he could have if he was having his head slammed against the ground.

Undecided? No. I have varying degrees of certainty over what happened that night. I also know that I reserve the right to be completely wrong. We all do. This isn't a courtroom and I'm not on a jury.

true. we'll see what happens next year at the trial, if one even occurs. However, I do expect the charges will be lowered to manslaughter before it begins. the "special" prosecutor probably charged murder in an attempt to try a plea bargain because she knew she had to charge zimmerman to quell the local black community from rioting, and she knows she is in for one hell of a time trying to prove he is guilty of anything other than self defense.Hopefully Zimmerman's attorney isn't a knuckhead... or hopefully Zimmerman doesn't break under the pressure of a murder charge and accept the bargain.


you suck at hiding bias.
This is coming from the guy who went on a silly tirade against liberals that wasn't even worth responding to.

I don't try to hide my bias. that's the catch. I know where I stand on issues and so does pretty much everyone else on this board who isn't just now drifting in.


I'm not crazy, everyone else is.

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Response to Trayvon Martin case gets Ugly Apr. 28th, 2012 @ 06:26 PM Reply

At 4/28/12 05:29 PM, RacistBassist wrote: Asks what possible reasons could have been
Says person is defending

I don't know what this means but I have a feeling you were trying to make fun of me, or something.

Yes, it quite literally is. When saying "teen" and then showing when he was in his early teens, it is extremely misleading.

By definition, no, it really isn't.

It's a character attack that neglects context and what actually happened

Do you know what actually happened?

Let's apply Occam's Razor for a second. What seems more likely, that he knew specifically where the graffiti was, and that he was happy the black culture center was the target, or he just picked a picture that said justice for him. What does it say about those against him who are ok with the hit on him? The random beatings that have been done in Trayvons memory?

It is certainly possible Zimmerman didn't know where the source of that image comes from.

Its also quite possible he knows exactly where it comes from, especially in the context that the other image comes from a Terry Jones rally. That is a mighty big coincidence back to back. Is it concrete proof? No. But it certainly does make me think.

Regardless of what I think of happened that night you have to be out of your mind to think that I or even a light majority of people think it's good that there have been racially charged beatings due to this case. I do not support it and it obviously reflects very poorly of them. They haven't done much critical thinking about the case. it accomplished nothing.

Says they understand it's not an order
Calls it an order

What the hell? What on earth? Where? When? Read my post above you. Jesus christ.

Trained 9-11 dispatcher? You're acting like they are an actual officer with authority and not just a relay of information.

...no I'm not? You think dispatchers are just thrown into a pit? Good luck, I hope you know how to handle these emergency calls! Uhh, no. They are trained in how to deal with every imaginable scenario.

So basically since bad things sometimes happen we should never do that thing. We should never drive cars since you might get in an accident where you aren't at fault

Yikes. Getting in a car and knowing the assumption of risk and wearing a seatbelt in anticipation of said risk is not the same thing that brought George Zimmerman to think it was OK to stalk Martin in his SUV with his gun on his person.

I'm sorry, but getting your head smashed once with the other person showing no intent to stop is easily enough justification to fear for your life. Have you ever hit your head on concrete, for whatever reason? It's very easy to not get injured from it. It is also very easy to end up injured from it. Same thing with being cut by a knife. You can easily sustain only very minor injuries, but that does not mean the threat still is not there.

The defense would need to prove that there is no intent to stop in order for it to be a valid self defense case, and I don't see enough evidence that suggests that that is the case here.

Here's the deal. We either have his girlfriend telling the truth and Trayvon not running. Or we have his girlfriend lying and nobody knows what happened at that point.

Agreed. We don't know crucial pieces of information.

Because as we all know, you have access to your paypal account while in jail. Yes, now he is using that money. Probably for defense funds, the bail, or just living considering his entire life is a wreck right now.

It was at the bond hearing. I think it's pretty plausible he knew damn so he could get a $150,000 bond instead of a $1,000,000 bond (which he'll probably get anyway, regardless).

Ok, let me use the non-charged variant. The media purposefully spread disinformation and was quick to judgement and attempted to sway public opinion before all the facts came forward. Now, which is quicker for the sake of everybody, what I just typed, or calling it a crusade? I guess I could call it a jihad, witch hunt, or some sort of McCarthy reference, but crusade is just oh so much funner.

You criticize the collective media for being sensationalist, but you have to understand calling this a 'crusade" or "jihad" is, in fact, sensationalist.

SYG does apply so far, unless the girlfriends phone call brings new light to the case.

Stand Your Ground is a terrible piece of legislation. The court needs to prove that you were not in fear of your life, rather than you were in fear of your life. Here's a pretty good breakdown of the law and it's effects.

If I see a purse snatching, every single cop in the world would say you are not required to attempt to stop the thief if they are running away towards your direction.

Absolutely but these are two completely different situations.

If something happens between you two and you end up shooting the person, that does not make you liable.

haha, really?

Zimmerman was suspicious because he matched the description of several previous break-ins in his area, and it was a kid he never seen before in his area. Him being black had absolutely zero to do with it besides the previous break-in having somebody match a similar description. If there wasn't that previous break-in by a tall young black male, then sure, it'd probably be racially profiling. But, considering that someone with a similar description did it, that goes out the window.

I dunno man, I think the reason why this country is so divided over this is because of it's racial implications. Is it amplified by the media? Absolutely, but only because it's what everyone is paying attention to. This isn't a "chicken or the egg" kind of question: the outrage comes first, then the exploitation by networks.

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Response to Trayvon Martin case gets Ugly Apr. 28th, 2012 @ 07:01 PM Reply

At 4/28/12 05:40 PM, Korriken wrote: it's more closely related than you think. they depicted martin as a featherweight 4 foot tall boy. he was depicted as weak and helpless when it was obviously not the case. and it was done intentionally. misinformation at its finest.

Good job ignoring everything I just said, I guess.

he looked about 12-14, which funny enough most people thought he was 14 in the beginning until it turned out his age was 17.

He "looked" it, but how old was he actually in that picture?

if you're 60 years old and want the modelling company to think you're hot enough for a face to face interview...

haha what the hell, this is the dumbest thing ever. This 60 year old woman tricked the modelling agents to set up an interview...and then what? They're gonna know what she really looks like when she gets there. What good did she accomplish? What the hell is this?

How did you think this was at all the same thing?
simple. its called misleading the target audience with fraudulent information.

I already showed you the difference but you don't really seem that interested in it, I guess.

if it was a current picture, I would say "well, that's his current picture." you want my argument? let's see you answer this question without resorting to trying to appeal to emotions and sidestepping it. "Why did the media, even after getting a current picture of Trayvon, continue to use the babyface picture?"

Here's a recent picture of him and he still kinda looks like a, uhh, "babyface" to be honest. And they used the picture because of what sells: this dead 17 year old doesn't fit the kneejerk reaction image of "young male black male (thug)."

the point is, Journalists, those who job it is to report the news in a fair, unbiased, and accurate way are knowingly using old information and leaving out key information to paint a skewed picture of the situation.

"Old information" is not "a picture taken 2 years ago." What the hell is the difference? This isn't a picture from when he was 5 years old, good lord. And what key information are there shady journalists leaving out?

None. there's your answer.

There it is indeed. Sounds more like you sticking your fingers in your ear and going "lalalala" but, like you said, there's my answer.

I would say the picture of the back of his head, the picture which had a time AND gps coordinate stamp, proving that it was taken just after the gun went off, before cops could arrive and paramedics could clean his head is pretty solid proof that something happened.

This isn't in question. Something happened, obviously.

Also, the guy who took the picture noted the gunpowder burns on Martin's clothes, which is a solid indication that the shot happened at very close range, as in, hand to hand combat range. so yeah, the fight happened. do your homework and drop the emotional appeal.
or its pointless.

Well I was referring to something you were doing, so, I'm glad you agree.

well, there is that picture the "zimmerman must die" crowd didn't want to see ("graphic" image aka there's some blood on his head)

"Zimmerman-must-die-crowd?" Why does everyone who disagrees with you have to hold an extreme position? Do you always box and categorize people that way?

to keep him in your sight so he doesn't find a good hiding place and wait out the cops and then commit his crime?

Or just wait for the cops to come instead of being a bonafide vigilante?

Undecided? No. I have varying degrees of certainty over what happened that night. I also know that I reserve the right to be completely wrong. We all do. This isn't a courtroom and I'm not on a jury.
true. we'll see what happens next year at the trial, if one even occurs.

There will absolutely be a trial.

However, I do expect the charges will be lowered to manslaughter before it begins. the "special" prosecutor probably charged murder in an attempt to try a plea bargain because she knew she had to charge zimmerman to quell the local black community from rioting,

Wow, I'm kinda speechless at this. I agree about the plea deal and I personally don't think charges will be lowered, but why do you think blacks are a bunch of savage animals? What would make you think they would start "rioting" over this? What signs can you give me examples of that were clear indications of potential riots?