At 7/10/13 10:10 PM, Ceratisa wrote:
A member of the neighborhood following a suspicious person isn't assault.
It can be if the followed is threatened by the follower. It also looks to be a problem since every time I heard the 911 call the operator clearly tells him not to follow Martin, that they don't need him to do that.
It is NOT illegal to follow someone.
You've never heard of stalking then? Before you go there, no I am not suggesting that Zimmerman stalked Martin. I'm simply pointing out you made a factually incorrect statement.
TM had gotten away from Zimmerman, unless you think he openly lied about that during the time of the phone call to the non-emergency number.
This is always my problem, the "he got away from Zimmerman" bit, why is Zimmerman pursuing to begin with? He's not the police, he's not a deputy or anything. He's a guy in his neighborhood same as you or I. Watch organizations are voluntary and I've seen no evidence to suggest the one he's in to have police power. He also made a conscious choice to continue to pursue after being told that was not necessary for the situation to be handled by the police who would respond after 911 informed them.
I would really appreciate it if you gave your break down of what happened right up to the shooting that fits with expert testimony.
I'd appreciate it if the people who take Zimmerman's side would first give me a rational, defensible explanation for why it's ok for a citizen to act like a cop, and chase someone down that "looked suspicious" with a loaded gun. Because no matter how the fight that resulted went down, to me the whole situation is avoided if Zimmerman simply listens to the 911 operator and doesn't follow Martin but let's the police do their job.
Zimmerman sustained multiple blows, the experts testified that it was unlikely that the lacerations on the back of his head both came from the same impact.
So because he was hit by the person he chose to follow, who doesn't know him, or his motives for that pursuit, he's automatically the victim? Sorry, I'm not seeing it. I mean, I'm not saying I'm glad he got hurt, but when you make the decision to do what he did, you open yourself up to those consequences, or worse.
Zimmerman had a broken nose and two black eyes.
Martin was shot and died from his wounds. I think Zimmerman got the better of that particular exchange that his bad decision initiated.
Mr Good the only witness to part of the altercation (Who could actually see) puts Trayvon Martin on top with Zimmerman on the bottom crying for help.
So let me put this question to you: Your walking down the street (and I have not heard solid evidence Martin was doing anything but), a strange man starts to follow you. You keep walking, he keeps following...what are your options? True, I think Martin should have called the cops, knocked on a door, or simply ran for it. Turning around to confront Zimmerman was HIS mistake, but ok, once committed to that action, is it not reasonable to conclude if you are threatened you need to neutralize the threat? Seems to me both of them made mistakes in how they handled this but Zimmerman has more culpability for me because it ALL gets avoided if the 911 operator says "we don't need you to do that" in reference to pursuing Martin, and Zimmerman then says "ok, I'm getting back in my truck now and I'll wait for the police".
The use of marijuana likely did have a result on TM's mental state according to the ME.
Again, I don't see how this negates the bad, and potentially illegal decision by Zimmerman to pursue.
TM according to Jeantel and Zimmerman's phone call had safety eluded Zimmerman.
But Zimmerman continued the pursuit didn't he?
TM was on top which isn't even denied by prosecution at this point.
Again, it can be argued he was defending himself from a stranger he thought was a threat. Which would be logical to conclude since said stranger has NO LEGAL STANDING to be following ANYBODY.
TM actively participated in fights and considered himself to be a gang banger from his own social networking posts and text messages.
Again, what does this have to do with Zimmerman following the kid with no legal standing to do so, and after being advised not to? I mean, I don't see how this makes Zimmerman look better. If anything it makes him seem even stupider in my opinion.
Zimmerman's altercation with a civilian dressed officer which was completely dropped was eight years ago.
Oh, so it's cool to bring in evidence that paints a negative picture of Martin, but not Zimmerman. Especially when Zimmerman was actually CHARGED with putting his hands on somebody when he shouldn't, and with Martin it sounds like hearsay and the crap a teenager writes on FB (which I know adults who right BS on FB, things said on FB aren't always the best source).
Zimmerman was at the time borderline obese.
So? My brother was MORBIDLY obese for most of his life and was still able to win fights if he got dragged into them. This is not really applicable. He doesn't have the stamina for a long fight, but most street fights tend to be over quick, they aren't drawn out things like UFC or boxing.
The autopsy report as mentioned showed 3 abrasions on TM's knuckles. The report says these markings could have INFACT have occurred during the altercation.
I don't think anyone disputes Martin hit him. I think it's the WHY that's under scrutiny now.
The fact that he shot TM does not change anything, no one is arguing this point.
It doesn't? Because I'd like to know why someone who is not an officer of the law is chasing after teenagers in the dark because HE thinks they look suspicious, with a loaded weapon, and the hell with anyone who tells him not to do that.
