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Jons Animatorness

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JonHunter
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Jons Animatorness 2012-02-08 19:39:32 Reply

Whatup, so I saw this perfect thread from Otto, and it inspired me to do the same.
However I decided I'd do something new, and I'd do it in hopes of improving. Basicly all I'd appreciate feedback to, is this walk cycle I did (completely from scratch) and tips on how I could improve my workstyle.

If I do however come back and add another experiment like this, then yay me.

Anyways, I'd like some feedback on this walkcycle I made:
http://www.newgrounds.com/dump/item/b764ba7226bbb55f0abf6d4a cf3ffb1a
I see now already that there is improvement I could do. However, I feel as though my main issues is maintaining proportions. Is that just a practice thing, or are there techniques to get around to doing this? If you have any thoughts, post away and thanks in advance! Feedback is the second best thing when improving!

This is my second walk cycle ever, made by frame-by-framing, but it's my first from scratch.

Corky-D
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Response to Jons Animatorness 2012-02-08 19:46:41 Reply

Proportions look okay to me.

The walking itself is good, though it loops kinda... jerky?

The shading is nice, too.


1, 2, 3, Coffee 4, 5, 8, too late

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Sacros
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Response to Jons Animatorness 2012-02-08 20:34:54 Reply

nice, you need to fix a few frames in the head and shoulder though

are you doing that stright ahead? i dont recommend that for walk cycles


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JonHunter
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Response to Jons Animatorness 2012-02-08 21:47:06 Reply

At 9 minutes ago, Sacros wrote: nice, you need to fix a few frames in the head and shoulder though

are you doing that stright ahead? i dont recommend that for walk cycles

Straight ahead? No i drew a simple stick figure to illustrate how I wanted the walk to happen.
Is it some of the frames bugging that makes the unsmooth feeling?

I thought I'd not work on this one, and instead do a new one. Instead of repairing experiments, I'd punch out new ones and try new things in each and every one of them. But I still want to know feedback, and if it's the case of a few frames bugging then it sounds like if I wanted to fix this, it's a minor fix now isn't it? :o

Sacros
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Response to Jons Animatorness 2012-02-09 00:36:33 Reply

At 2 hours ago, JonHunter wrote:
At 9 minutes ago, Sacros wrote: nice, you need to fix a few frames in the head and shoulder though

are you doing that stright ahead? i dont recommend that for walk cycles
Straight ahead? No i drew a simple stick figure to illustrate how I wanted the walk to happen.
Is it some of the frames bugging that makes the unsmooth feeling?

I thought I'd not work on this one, and instead do a new one. Instead of repairing experiments, I'd punch out new ones and try new things in each and every one of them. But I still want to know feedback, and if it's the case of a few frames bugging then it sounds like if I wanted to fix this, it's a minor fix now isn't it? :o

you are right, you should totally start a new one to add up hours of flight under your belt

so you plan your animation with stickmen, how do you complete it? do you do draw over the stickman one drawing after the other from start to end?


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Damien
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Response to Jons Animatorness 2012-02-09 08:28:54 Reply

At 12 hours ago, JonHunter wrote: This is my second walk cycle ever, made by frame-by-framing, but it's my first from scratch.

Yo'

It seems that your character doesn't have enough "bounce". Need to give it more life.
This guy has a good tutorial on it. Just do what he does, and then start doing more from scratch after you figured it out.

Hope it helps.

JonHunter
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Response to Jons Animatorness 2012-02-18 20:15:14 Reply

At 9 days ago, Damien wrote:
At 12 hours ago, JonHunter wrote: This is my second walk cycle ever, made by frame-by-framing, but it's my first from scratch.
Yo'

It seems that your character doesn't have enough "bounce". Need to give it more life.
This guy has a good tutorial on it. Just do what he does, and then start doing more from scratch after you figured it out.

Hope it helps.

Thanks for the tutorial, I read it 2 times and I just now finished a new walkcycle.
Again, I hope these animation threads work. Here's my new walkcycle:
http://www.newgrounds.com/dump/item/f4e99bf084d35ead0986c622 05dfa80e
Or click here

Whaddya all think? :)

At 9 days ago, Sacros wrote: so you plan your animation with stickmen, how do you complete it? do you do draw over the stickman one drawing after the other from start to end?

I think when you include an image like I just did, it appears at the bottom of the post. However, here is the stickman I drew. After that, I didn't even sketch that walkcycle, I just "fleshed" out this skeleton. Which is a pretty crude one. I hope this answers your question =P

Jons Animatorness

Sacros
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Response to Jons Animatorness 2012-02-18 23:56:53 Reply

you should give zeurel´s tutorial another try, you are still doing your stuff your way, which is ok of course

but you are missing something really really important regarding animation basics

i may be able to help you further if you tell me exactly how you go about making your stickman (just keep it short =D)


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JonHunter
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Response to Jons Animatorness 2012-02-19 09:12:08 Reply

At 9 hours ago, Sacros wrote: you should give zeurelÃ'´s tutorial another try, you are still doing your stuff your way, which is ok of course

but you are missing something really really important regarding animation basics

i may be able to help you further if you tell me exactly how you go about making your stickman (just keep it short =D)

I don't know if you wanted me to PM or not but, I did work according to the tutorial? :o This later newer walkcycle has no skeleton stickman, only sketched the legs and a stuffed body ontop, then worked my way up to animating the rest.
What is it you think that I missed though? My guess is the bouncing? ;o How would I go abouts making the bouncing better?

JonHunter
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Response to Jons Animatorness 2012-02-19 10:15:11 Reply

At 37 minutes ago, Otto wrote: Hey Jon, your cycles looking good and you've got a lot of important things down. One thing I'd say is that when you start is not to just do a stick figure, but shapes, whole shapes. Grant yourself an understanding of how your character is not just lines but something that *occupies a space*. Imagine your character 3 dimensionally, so you can then imagine where weight is carried by your character. In a way you're doing a bit of physics in your planning. This goes hand in hand with timing, which is important to get down first on some keyframes. You've got a great start, all it takes is time I guess. GOod luck!

Heya, thanks. My guess is work in some more 3d-ish movement, like the upper body moving with each step?
Thanks for taking time and replying. And thanks again for the idea!

Sacros
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Response to Jons Animatorness 2012-02-19 11:23:09 Reply

lol i didnt imply to pm but go ahead if you are confortable with that

as for your description on how you made this new walk cycle, well, its clearly different from what zeurel suggest from the go

i dont want to walltext you on why you should try again, i hope you realize whats wrong while doing the tutorial again


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Tyler
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Response to Jons Animatorness 2012-02-21 21:16:50 Reply

Hey brokip.

The animation in the second one isn't bad. But the line quality is very inconsistent making the whole piece very jerky. Which leads me to this conclusion - you need to fix one of two things:

1. You are redrawing every frame. It may be beneficial to work on different layers and reuse pieces that don't move as much for each frame. An example would be the head, which is where the attention is usually drawn anyway (eyes too). Additionally, make sure you use the same brush size, quality, and stay zoomed in at the same time per frame to ensure consistency.

2. You're trying to do full animation when you should keep it limited. Flash, typically, is very limited and you're better off being conservative with the art you make. You can pull off more consistent, and equally effective animation by using pieces (which is kind of what I mentioned above) or consider investing in a lightbox and scanner and drawing each frame by hand and scanning in. This usually helps me keep my lines consistent.

Anyway, I know when I started out, I thought limited animation was for the birds and I wont do it! But, limited saves times and often looks better when you are working for just yourself. Professional companies hire certain people solely to keep lines consistent and good on their productions, so its good to keep things simple. Anyway, for limited animation I would totally recommend picking up either the book Character Animation Crash Course! - from Eric Goldberg, or Preston Blair has a great section on limited animation and walk cycles, but most of it the book focuses on full animation. Anyway, im sure if you googled preston blair walk cycle you would find a lot of great resources.

Hope that helps mannnnnn

JonHunter
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Response to Jons Animatorness 2012-02-22 12:40:09 Reply

Before I respond, here is a NEW walkcycle. It's NOTA HUMAN this time. I did an OSTRICH. In order to practice different types of movement.
http://www.newgrounds.com/dump/item/5f7c349fcfa86960dc14de83 9e720e1d
Or click here!

Important: Give me your thoughts, I'm considering to do another Ostrich, but add a bit more of my own style to it. This one is a combination between a Donald Duck Ostrage (not the movement however) and my disgusting addons to it.

At 15 hours ago, Tyler wrote: 2. You're trying to do full animation when you should keep it limited. Flash, typically, is very limited and you're better off being conservative with the art you make. You can pull off more consistent, and equally effective animation by using pieces (which is kind of what I mentioned above) or consider investing in a lightbox and scanner and drawing each frame by hand and scanning in. This usually helps me keep my lines consistent.

I read about limited animation in a book forwarded by John Halaas (or so I think it was). It was about timing and such. The main reason I haven't gone with the limited one is because I'm just practicing to keep my lines steady. I agree, and this latest one actually reuses the same lines on the head part, since the head on an ostrich doesn't move.

Thanks however. I'm going to incorporate more limited animation, as soon as I got the basics down.

At 3 days ago, Sacros wrote: as for your description on how you made this new walk cycle, well, its clearly different from what zeurel suggest from the go

i dont want to walltext you on why you should try again, i hope you realize whats wrong while doing the tutorial again

Durruh, I don't want to act like I'm a total retard, but I am trying to follow what the tutorial is suggesting. However, I'm going to incorporate what I learned from it, solely because I still believe a skeleton is needed beneath a sketch. If you are referring to the fact that Zeurel does his walkcycles in a more diagonal view, then rest assured that the next one (which only needs some fresher lines to it) will be that way. :P

At 3 days ago, Otto wrote: Hell, just watch what this guy has to say for a bit - they're only snippets but they say a lot very quickly.

I didn't mean just straight up try and draw '3D', just remember when you're drawing to imagine the shape as a whole.

Good luck!

I showed that clip to my mom when she came bugging me 10 times in a row. However, I still animate way better with a TV on, or headphones on my head. I think that part just comes down to who you are. However, give me some feedback on the new one. Trying to take what you said into consideration, especially on the Ostrich's feet movement.

Miccool
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Response to Jons Animatorness 2012-02-22 12:53:35 Reply

It's really really wobbly.. all the different parts of the body are moving slightly off every frame so it still looks pretty solid, but it's all over the place still, lol. Perhaps try using an onion skin more effectively and make sure every frame flows into the next frame.. though I think just fixing it will be a lot of trouble, just keep that in mind and keep trying I suppose lol.

Also the loop isn't the best, you can tell where it loops cause there's a quick jitter when it reloops. Otherwise I like it.. very good..

JonHunter
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Response to Jons Animatorness 2012-02-22 13:17:13 Reply

At 20 minutes ago, Miccool wrote: It's really really wobbly.. all the different parts of the body are moving slightly off every frame so it still looks pretty solid, but it's all over the place still, lol. Perhaps try using an onion skin more effectively and make sure every frame flows into the next frame.. though I think just fixing it will be a lot of trouble, just keep that in mind and keep trying I suppose lol.

Also the loop isn't the best, you can tell where it loops cause there's a quick jitter when it reloops. Otherwise I like it.. very good..

Which walkcycle are you referring to? This is a thread with many..
Walkcycle #1
Walkcycle #2
Ostrich Walkcycle
And a third one comming up pretty soon :)

Felt good I could collect them all up in one post like this, maybe the next poster notices it better.. Maybe these animation grottos will set focus aside from the latest improvements..

JonHunter
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Response to Jons Animatorness 2012-02-22 13:29:26 Reply

At 45 seconds ago, Otto wrote: Much better, however, you've done the same thing again which is copy certain parts of it so it looks fake. The feet seem to grow and shrink in completely identical ways - and you have the left foot/pad turning towards us, outward from the body, but then the right pad turns inwards, towards the body. It looks strange. Also very importantly is the head stays in one place very bizarrely which is very unnatural.

More on the feet is the jerkyness of the loop and the fact that, even though the body is tilted, the legs do not seem to follow that tilt, as if the body has a bend in the middle (but it doesn't). Think about where the hips are, and where the legs start. The connection of leg to body shouldn't move around, but the joint should pivot. Try and draw the legs seperately and don't copy one, though I know it's tempting.

But yeah it's really getting there man, keep trying.

I'm not one to defend my work from critique, but I knew someone would point out the head.
However, check this sheet out: Click here
It's the same guy who photographed the very first runcycle of a horse. The very first cycles in general :P . I took the photo, drew a line from the first head to the last. The movement is just a few milimeters.

However, it's greatthat you're pointing out that I'm making progress. It's good to hear that I'm moving forward and not backwards. Copy certain points? You mean that I traced the contact positions? (left leg out, right leg back, traced into left leg back, right leg out)

The feet, is my attempt to animate a diagonal walkcycle. As if he's walking diagonally to the camera. You wouldn't mind taking the .fla from me, and then just adding like a note at where the feet should be changed? If so, I'll pm you a link to it from my dump :P thanks in advance. Again, don't think that I'm trying to neglect anyone from giving me feedback, in fact I love getting feedback, and improving through what I hear.

DillonBrannick
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Response to Jons Animatorness 2012-02-22 14:06:53 Reply

At 34 minutes ago, JonHunter wrote: However, check this sheet out: Click here

You're right about the head, looks bang on straight, even still you probably could but in a little bit of movement to make it look a little nicer, I'd mess around with that.


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Response to Jons Animatorness 2012-02-22 21:44:33 Reply

All three technically.. though I was looking at the first one. Seems like you're improving the wobbly so that's good lol... though the looping still doesn't seem to have a fluid transition. Bird is pretty good... maybe make the head move back and forth? Looks kinda odd being so static

JonHunter
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Response to Jons Animatorness 2012-02-23 19:06:32 Reply

Got a new walkcycle, check the end of the post =)

At 1 day ago, DillonBrannick wrote: You're right about the head, looks bang on straight, even still you probably could but in a little bit of movement to make it look a little nicer, I'd mess around with that.

Yeah, Imma do another one probably. But with a more cartoony feel to it. Lots of things I wanna redo on that ostrich.

At 21 hours ago, Miccool wrote: All three technically.. though I was looking at the first one. Seems like you're improving the wobbly so that's good lol... though the looping still doesn't seem to have a fluid transition. Bird is pretty good... maybe make the head move back and forth? Looks kinda odd being so static

Alright, it's cool that you pointed out me improving. Good to know :) and if you can take the time, please tell me on how to improve further on when watching this new one..

Walkcycle #4
http://www.newgrounds.com/dump/item/b57a2b80e02a5a54d8a299b0 97c00408

Pleasetell me what you all think, after all I want to improve. So far, I've gotten great responses on how to improve. I'm considering to do a new thread soon, would have been way easier if NG allowed editting. Atleast in these types of threads. Also, Otto, whaddya think of the feet this time? It's not traced :) however, I did the sketching for this one, before I did the ostrich. The ostrich got done inbetween the process of this one, and this one in particular is a lot cooler. But as mentionned, tell me what you all think guys, I really wanna keep on improving!

Adding a picture, with a second link, so that if anyone reading the thread real quickly, might just halt and check this one out (rather than checking out the first one :P)
Check it!

Jons Animatorness

Sacros
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Response to Jons Animatorness 2012-02-23 20:03:48 Reply

At 54 minutes ago, JonHunter wrote: Adding a picture, with a second link, so that if anyone reading the thread real quickly, might just halt and check this one out (rather than checking out the first one :P)
Check it!

way better! seems like you followed zeurels tutorial more accurately this time and the result shows

only problem now is that the head is kinda inflating lol, that wasnt in the tutorial!

great job man, improved tenfolds


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JonHunter
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Response to Jons Animatorness 2012-02-24 09:09:03 Reply

At 13 hours ago, Sacros wrote: way better! seems like you followed zeurels tutorial more accurately this time and the result shows

only problem now is that the head is kinda inflating lol, that wasnt in the tutorial!

great job man, improved tenfolds

Thank you, means a lot, hearing that I've improved so much :D
yeah, I think maybe it's time to practice on keeping the lines straight, maybe reusing the same proportions as mentionned earlier. So the head wouldn't wobble.

If anyone has some tips on shading an FBF cycle, feel free to give. I feel like it's harder than it looks..