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Arca Designs (Art Recruitment)

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Spaceyavin
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Arca Designs (Art Recruitment) 2012-01-22 15:08:54 Reply

Hi, I'm the co-founder and representative of a new partnership called IlLuMiX (ill-lue-micks), with our subsidiary / partner Arca Designs. For our new, top-secret XNA project (for digital release on Steam) called Radon, we need artists to make this experience awesome. We're a small group and we'll only recruit you if you have a Twitter and Skype account for communication. We're kind of unprofessional, but we're fair and won't steal your graphics. After final release, your resources remain shared IlLuMiX property and you will begin to recieve payment from the sales. Projects will not be cancelled without consulting the whole team. If a project is cancelled, you may still use your resources and IlLuMiX will claim no rights over them.

Enter IlLuMiX Site

Arca Designs (Art Recruitment)

Kinsei
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Response to Arca Designs (Art Recruitment) 2012-01-22 15:47:44 Reply

I have been trying to moderate my posts lately to become a better user, but I gotta say. This is the biggest load of bullshit I have heard in a while.
twtter/skype users only?
.co.nr site?
no use of our own work after the project is released?

Nah, screw that.
You might be trying to build a real company, and thats fine. I wish you all the luck in the world on your endeavors, but this post makes then entire company look like a bunch of kids who think they can get rich easy off a couple of games.


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Neolight
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Response to Arca Designs (Art Recruitment) 2012-01-22 15:57:42 Reply

At 1/22/12 03:47 PM, Kinsei01 wrote: I have been trying to moderate my posts lately to become a better user, but I gotta say. This is the biggest load of bullshit I have heard in a while.
twtter/skype users only?
.co.nr site?
no use of our own work after the project is released?

It seems like a pretty reasonable indie post to me. Allot of start ups operate on revenue share and require the use of communication programs the team has chosen to use. Additionally, no artist in the professional world runs around expecting to have full ownership over assets created specifically for use in a monetized project.

Take a pill of chill.


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Spaceyavin
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Response to Arca Designs (Art Recruitment) 2012-01-22 16:50:28 Reply

At 1/22/12 03:57 PM, Neolight wrote:
At 1/22/12 03:47 PM, Kinsei01 wrote: I have been trying to moderate my posts lately to become a better user, but I gotta say. This is the biggest load of bullshit I have heard in a while.
twtter/skype users only?
.co.nr site?
no use of our own work after the project is released?
It seems like a pretty reasonable indie post to me. Allot of start ups operate on revenue share and require the use of communication programs the team has chosen to use. Additionally, no artist in the professional world runs around expecting to have full ownership over assets created specifically for use in a monetized project.

Take a pill of chill.

Thanks, :P. We are indeed setting up a small business and creating a game. We're on concept stage at the moment and we have a rough plan of where Radon will go. :)

Arca Designs (Art Recruitment)

bonkanailios
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Response to Arca Designs (Art Recruitment) 2012-01-22 17:16:20 Reply

Any artist working for MONEY UP FRONT can totally expect to see their designs handed over to companies. That's no problem, but asking for work up front, for possible income later, with no previous products to show is less exciting.

Are you guys programmers? Do you have any previous game work? How do you plan on making money on this project?

Also, you might want to invest in a graphic designer before you make the leap to gobbling up some illustrators, your website looks a little rough around the edges.

bigjonny13
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Response to Arca Designs (Art Recruitment) 2012-01-22 17:30:14 Reply

At 1/22/12 03:57 PM, Neolight wrote: Allot of start ups operate on revenue share and require the use of communication programs the team has chosen to use.

I think the issue with the communication thing is that it's ONLY skype and twitter, when there are numerous other forms of communication out there. Why limit yourself to only two, when there are so many other options, such as MSN, AIM, Facebook, email, Newgrounds pm system, just to nae a few.

Neolight
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Response to Arca Designs (Art Recruitment) 2012-01-22 17:39:20 Reply

At 1/22/12 05:30 PM, big-jonny-13 wrote: I think the issue ...

It is really the most irrelevant thing one could criticize. It is not unreasonable to ask someone to download a program so that everyone's communication is focused in one place. Why the hell does it matter?

Back in my modding days some teams required daily participation on Teamspeak, others wanted you to be on mIRC. Real studios give you a personal email and a pidgin or gmail account loaded up with all your work buddies.

This dude is just trying to find the help he needs, come on...


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Kinsei
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Response to Arca Designs (Art Recruitment) 2012-01-22 18:05:01 Reply

I can let the URL thing go, yes that is fine.

As for the skype or twitter only is kind of a hazard way to go about things. Especially if you don't back up the conversation for later reference. E-mail or other forms of archive-able messages is a much better way to go since they are submittable as legal evidence.

The biggest thing to consider is the lack of rights to the work. To hand over all rights to a work is a very dumb thing to do. Even major corporations are willing to let artist retain rights for self promotion. If you can keep no other rights, then at least keep those. Sure you may not be able to place them in your portfolio until after the product is released, but if it becomes a hit, then that is a boon you don't want to pass up.


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Neolight
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Response to Arca Designs (Art Recruitment) 2012-01-22 18:47:39 Reply

At 1/22/12 06:05 PM, Kinsei01 wrote: I can let the URL thing go, yes that is fine.

As for the skype or twitter only is kind of a hazard way to go about things. Especially if you don't back up the conversation for later reference.

The biggest thing to consider is the lack of rights to the work. To hand over all rights to a work is a very dumb thing to do. Even major corporations are willing to let artist retain rights for self promotion.

Skype archives all it's messages and if someone is THAT paranoid about legal issues sprouting up through text - they have failed to communicate and sign off fair initial agreements before getting hired.

I don't know what world you are living in. I don't know of a single major game studio that doesn't retain full rights to work produced for their game. Every agreement I've signed in my lifetime goes as far to state that all work created within the studio OR for the studio is their intellectual property. You can't just make assets for one commercial game and throw them into another one by a different studio nor can you personally sell them. That is the kind of illegal action these companies are trying to defend themselves from.

These agreements, however, don't mean that you are stripped of your ability to promote yourself with the work that you've made. Posting work that you've done online is almost always a given right when the NDA is lifted, the art asset goes public in a marketing ad, or the project goes defunct.


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Spaceyavin
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Response to Arca Designs (Art Recruitment) 2012-01-22 18:49:36 Reply

At 1/22/12 06:05 PM, Kinsei01 wrote: I can let the URL thing go, yes that is fine.

As for the skype or twitter only is kind of a hazard way to go about things. Especially if you don't back up the conversation for later reference. E-mail or other forms of archive-able messages is a much better way to go since they are submittable as legal evidence.

The biggest thing to consider is the lack of rights to the work. To hand over all rights to a work is a very dumb thing to do. Even major corporations are willing to let artist retain rights for self promotion. If you can keep no other rights, then at least keep those. Sure you may not be able to place them in your portfolio until after the product is released, but if it becomes a hit, then that is a boon you don't want to pass up.

I poorly described the rights system in OP. To clarify: the artist may not use the works he has created commercially. As I did (I'm promotional artist/temporary graphics artist), I licensed my works under CC 3.0 Share-Alike Non-Commercial No-Derivatives while giving IlLuMiX rights to use my textures/sprites in one of our LWJGL test games: Sqairs. If an artist wishes to use these outside of commercial purposes and also stating which of our projects it came from.

Below is a Sqairs screenshot (the characters had zero AI, just placeable for the final [which was cancelled]): http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/193 /ingamemobs.png/

Neolight
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Response to Arca Designs (Art Recruitment) 2012-01-22 18:59:10 Reply

At 1/22/12 06:05 PM, Kinsei01 wrote: The biggest thing to consider is the lack of rights to the work. To hand over all rights to a work is a very dumb thing to do. Even major corporations are willing to let artist retain rights for self promotion. If you can keep no other rights, then at least keep those. Sure you may not be able to place them in your portfolio until after the product is released, but if it becomes a hit, then that is a boon you don't want to pass up.

I take back my last post, you basically said the correct thing here. I don't think OP needed to clarify further. Everything was pretty obviously communicated in his first post and everyone's jumping on the dude like a bunch of piranhas.


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bonkanailios
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Response to Arca Designs (Art Recruitment) 2012-01-22 19:22:14 Reply

At 1/22/12 05:16 PM, bonkanailios wrote:
Are you guys programmers? Do you have any previous game work? How do you plan on making money on this project?

.
Those were real questions, I am actually considering this, I just wanted to know some details, and figured this would be a great place to ask, since then you wont have to re-iterate the details.

Aigis
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Response to Arca Designs (Art Recruitment) 2012-01-22 19:24:08 Reply

Why are ethnicity and religion two of the things you have to supply information about when applying?


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Spaceyavin
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Response to Arca Designs (Art Recruitment) 2012-01-22 19:35:01 Reply

Don't worry. Those weren't intended to be racist/religionist (?). Basically, the head is Athiest, and has a curiousity towards members religions (this won't affect your chances of being accepted). The ethnicity part was so we could design a custom avatar for you. We'd probably ask more like eye color over Skype. :)

P.S. Marc said it was so he could put a turban on some people's heads but I think / hope he was joking.

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Response to Arca Designs (Art Recruitment) 2012-01-22 19:41:41 Reply

At 1/22/12 07:35 PM, Spaceyavin wrote: Don't worry. Those weren't intended to be racist/religionist (?). Basically, the head is Athiest, and has a curiousity towards members religions (this won't affect your chances of being accepted). The ethnicity part was so we could design a custom avatar for you. We'd probably ask more like eye color over Skype. :)

That is something it really seems like you should be doing after hiring someone. Forcing people to name their ethnicity and religion on the application sends the wrong signal.


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Response to Arca Designs (Art Recruitment) 2012-01-22 19:44:38 Reply

At 1/22/12 07:22 PM, bonkanailios wrote:
At 1/22/12 05:16 PM, bonkanailios wrote:
Are you guys programmers? Do you have any previous game work? How do you plan on making money on this project?
.
Those were real questions, I am actually considering this, I just wanted to know some details, and figured this would be a great place to ask, since then you wont have to re-iterate the details.

Nice, if you joined, what type of art would you want to provide to the team? We've got a planned payment system for Arca Designs, where the profit is split appropriately between members. For example, a Concept Artist (one of our needed positions) would get around 10-30% of Arca's income, since the space needs filling for pre-development promotions. Information on the game will be fully released to our team members and testers, so if you're inside our group, we're happy to provide information on the current story or planned adaptions.

Kinsei
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Response to Arca Designs (Art Recruitment) 2012-01-22 19:47:26 Reply

At 1/22/12 06:59 PM, Neolight wrote: I take back my last post, you basically said the correct thing here. I don't think OP needed to clarify further. Everything was pretty obviously communicated in his first post and everyone's jumping on the dude like a bunch of piranhas.

A little clarification is nice, which the op just did, and that was quite good of him.
A lot of the work done for companies needs to be lined out in the contract made at the when the two begin to work together. Everything is negotiable, it all just depends on what you are willing to give up, and how bad a company wants you or your work.

As for jumping on him, I was just point out some serious problem with his initial criteria. Much of the way it is worded is pretty much automatic red flags. Mentioning that the work will remain property of the company and no mention of negotiation. Only users of spesfic services of communication? This brings thought of a plan that isn't well thought out and has a high chance of falling through.
And the URL, although a very moot point, again doesn't seem to have much effort. As frivolous as it seems, a .COM a .ORG or a .NET have the most professional look, and the highest chance of being taken seriously.
Yes I know what the OP said about being an unprofessional styled team, which also harms the legitimacy of the original request.

If someone understands the risks of those working conditions, and still wants to give it a shot, then fine. That is more than alright by me. I hope everyone does right by one another and makes a couple bucks.

It would just be a shame to see something go wrong later and one or the other, or both get screwed out of something possibly good just because some poor wording in the initial meeting.


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Spaceyavin
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Response to Arca Designs (Art Recruitment) 2012-01-22 19:55:03 Reply

At 1/22/12 07:47 PM, Kinsei01 wrote: If someone understands the risks of those working conditions, and still wants to give it a shot, then fine. That is more than alright by me. I hope everyone does right by one another and makes a couple bucks.

It would just be a shame to see something go wrong later and one or the other, or both get screwed out of something possibly good just because some poor wording in the initial meeting.

Yeah, I understand your concerns, we intend to purchase IlLuMiX.co.uk when our head has gained a suitable amount of money for web design/a domain.

Like someone (can't remember who) said, with users on multiple IM services, conference-style communication is virtually impossible. We need users able to send files and note about changes they've made to their creations (Skype and Twitter, respectively). We could make special arrangements with potential members if they have difficulties with these services, however.

Kinsei
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Response to Arca Designs (Art Recruitment) 2012-01-22 20:04:05 Reply

At 1/22/12 07:55 PM, Spaceyavin wrote: Yeah, I understand your concerns, we intend to purchase IlLuMiX.co.uk when our head has gained a suitable amount of money for web design/a domain.

Even if you don't have a professionally built website yet, you should still get the domain name. They are pretty cheap to be honest, and you do want to snatch them up quickly before someone else does and then you have to pay an arm and a leg to get the name you want/need.


Like someone (can't remember who) said, with users on multiple IM services, conference-style communication is virtually impossible. We need users able to send files and note about changes they've made to their creations (Skype and Twitter, respectively). We could make special arrangements with potential members if they have difficulties with these services, however.

For conference calls and group meetings that is fine. Skype works very well for that, I will admit.
But you really don't want to mention in an AD like it is a requirement.You make it sound like if they don't have those, then don't even bother applying.

although it isn't like they are hard to get anyway.

Just don't make it seem like those are the only forms of communication you accept.

And for the record, I do have skype. The regs here know I have skype, and have used it a bit from time to time, regardless of my antisocial nature.


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Spaceyavin
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Response to Arca Designs (Art Recruitment) 2012-01-22 20:09:34 Reply

Okay, but our "intelligent" owner has hosted us on Webs Free. -.- Know of any good Domain+Hosting deals for 1-2 years?

Kinsei
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Response to Arca Designs (Art Recruitment) 2012-01-22 20:20:24 Reply

At 1/22/12 08:09 PM, Spaceyavin wrote: Okay, but our "intelligent" owner has hosted us on Webs Free. -.- Know of any good Domain+Hosting deals for 1-2 years?

Well.. I have my host through one company and my domain through another.
My host is through Wix, it is also a web builder an I build my personal website though them.
And my Domain name is through Go-Daddy

Yeah I know... the evil go-daddy o.o'

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Response to Arca Designs (Art Recruitment) 2012-01-22 20:21:41 Reply

I don't see the big issue here. While forcing recruits to use skype or something is an uncomfortable choice, because it will discourage people from applying, it is after all only their business, they need to make sure they can contact their "co-workers" somehow.

If it is stopping you from applying, then your point is made if you don't apply. If the appearence of their website seems unprofessional, I again recommend not to apply. If asking for religion and ethnicity seems incredibly untrustworthy and probably even discriminating to you, then you are free to not apply too.

If you decide to apply here, be aware that noone can stop from saying "hey I drew this and that and this too, while I worked for company xyz" (self promotion) no matter what a possible contract says. It could stop you from exposing it publicly at worst. And some users in here seem to mix up "self promotion" with selling the image somewhere else.

there was some sarcasm in one of the paragraphs, did you spot it?

But seriously, I wish you good luck with your project and with finding some good artist for it.


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Response to Arca Designs (Art Recruitment) 2012-01-22 20:36:53 Reply

Thanks. :P

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