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Why Did God Create Satan?

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iamgrimreaper
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Response to Why Did God Create Satan? Jan. 8th, 2012 @ 12:47 PM Reply

I think it's honestly best for his beings if sin existed than if it had not. Without bad, there's no good either. Remember that.


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Response to Why Did God Create Satan? Jan. 8th, 2012 @ 12:57 PM Reply

At 1/8/12 12:27 PM, EmmaVolt wrote: Second Coming
Judgment Day
Tribulation
Battle of Armageddon

Far out, looks like I really need to brush up on all this stuff. I don't recall either Tribulation or the Battle of Armageddon and didn't realise the Second Coming and Judgment Day are separate events. I suppose a disinterest in religion before a mature age could have attributed to a lack of knowledge in the more violent aspects of the belief.

But I get what you're saying. It makes sense for his return to occur once those who spread the word have been silenced.

I gather that the unborn and children will not experience nearly as long a time in hell (maybe even at all?) as adults who understood the situation and were given the opportunity.

Wait, what? I can't at all fathom how it could possibly be fair for those who didn't and had no chance to know better to spend even a second in hell. I see them as innocent victims of their time, subjecting them to pure torment and agony even temporarily would be entirely unjust.

In my opinion, anyway. Obviously I'm not God. Do you know of anything in the Bible to suggest that's a possibility?


I'll probably read this in ten minutes and facepalm. - RageVI

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Response to Why Did God Create Satan? Jan. 8th, 2012 @ 01:07 PM Reply

bcuz jesus wants it!!!


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Response to Why Did God Create Satan? Jan. 8th, 2012 @ 01:15 PM Reply

Simple. Man created God. Man had to make God look Godly. Man created the Devil. Now, the Devil pushes you to God, because of fear.

When.. The devil never had power to begin with. Nor does God. [Nor does big businesses.] We only gave them power for being weak-minded and ignorant of our own ignorance.

Add a 'G' to the word 'God'. Take out the 'D' and capitalise the 'E' out of the word 'Devil'. You get yourselves the two grand masters of ineptitude. [They are more of a couch potato than my mother is.]


You do not make examples, you make excuses; you do not solve problems, you shift problems; you do not stand behind your statements, you stand behind your stasis.

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Response to Why Did God Create Satan? Jan. 8th, 2012 @ 01:16 PM Reply

Satan is the judger of man's crimes. If he was not evil, how could he so efficiently detect them?


(הֲבֵל הֲבָלִים אָמַר קֹהֶלֶת, הֲבֵל הֲבָלִים הַכֹּל הָבֶל. דּוֹר הֹלֵךְ וְדוֹר בָּא, וְהָאָרֶץ לְעוֹלָם עֹמָדֶת. (קהלת א ג, ה

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Response to Why Did God Create Satan? Jan. 8th, 2012 @ 01:17 PM Reply

At 1/8/12 01:15 PM, Insanctuary wrote:
Add a 'G' to the word 'God'. Take out the 'D' and capitalise the 'E' out of the word 'Devil'. You get yourselves the two grand masters of ineptitude. [They are more of a couch potato than my mother is.]

Rephrase: Take out an 'O' out of the word 'Good'. Add a capitalised 'D' at the beginning of the word 'evil'.

THE TWO GRAND MASTERS OF INEPTITUDE


You do not make examples, you make excuses; you do not solve problems, you shift problems; you do not stand behind your statements, you stand behind your stasis.

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Response to Why Did God Create Satan? Jan. 8th, 2012 @ 01:20 PM Reply

At 1/8/12 12:57 PM, FIGMENTUM wrote:
At 1/8/12 12:27 PM, EmmaVolt wrote: Second Coming
Judgment Day
Tribulation
Battle of Armageddon
Far out, looks like I really need to brush up on all this stuff. I don't recall either Tribulation or the Battle of Armageddon and didn't realise the Second Coming and Judgment Day are separate events. I suppose a disinterest in religion before a mature age could have attributed to a lack of knowledge in the more violent aspects of the belief.

I'm not exactly sure of the order, but it's my understanding that the SC happens first, then JD begins immediately afterwards. There's a ton of debate about the Tribulation, and exactly what it will entail - so, I didn't want to go into too much detail. What we know for certain is that there will definitely be genocides most likely similar to the Protestant Genocide by the Catholics in the middle ages. I'm not sure though. I hope to be dead before then, haha.

I think it's disappointing that many followers of Christ choose to ignore an entire book (Revelations). It's definitely a frightening read, but one that could potentially save/protect your life - if not peace of mind - with the right precautions and preparation.

I gather that the unborn and children will not experience nearly as long a time in hell (maybe even at all?) as adults who understood the situation and were given the opportunity.
Wait, what? I can't at all fathom how it could possibly be fair for those who didn't and had no chance to know better to spend even a second in hell. I see them as innocent victims of their time, subjecting them to pure torment and agony even temporarily would be entirely unjust.
In my opinion, anyway. Obviously I'm not God. Do you know of anything in the Bible to suggest that's a possibility?

I agree, so I am still studying this aspect of judgement. For now, I have concluded that the children and babies present at the Second Coming will simply cease to exist after being condemned, and will not feel pain in-between. This seems just to me, but as you said, I am not God.

The most groundbreaking discovery I had on this subject was the myth that hell is eternal suffering and not eventual death (second death) - nonexistence. So, seeing as it is temporary home, I have a strong feeling each individual will have their own sentencing similar to that of prisons today.

But, it can be difficult to not wonder how long men like Hitler and Nero will spend (not to be judgmental).
_______

At 1/8/12 01:16 PM, satanbrain wrote: Satan is the judger of man's crimes. If he was not evil, how could he so efficiently detect them?

God is the Judger of man's crimes; although, Satan attempts to do so. A very common misconception in society is that Satan is a parallel to the greek mythological god "Hades" - who was told to be the guardian of the "underworld" and not "evil".

Also, being evil is nonexclusive of being aware that you are evil (hence repentance).


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Response to Why Did God Create Satan? Jan. 8th, 2012 @ 01:30 PM Reply

At 1/8/12 11:33 AM, Scarface wrote: The world would be essentially perfect without Satan. Adam and Eve wouldn't have sinned, people wouldn't have temptations, and no one could go to hell? Why did God create Satan? Or, if he didn't know Satan would be so evil, why does he continue to give Satan the power to affect things or people on Earth?

Atheists, please think hypothetically about this

Well, i wish God created Satan because it is just a great idea with 100% peace and no people going to hell and nobody would just think that Satan is a good guy because i wish God created Satan and made him good.

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Response to Why Did God Create Satan? Jan. 8th, 2012 @ 01:31 PM Reply

At 1/8/12 01:28 PM, s0und wrote: Emma stop ignoring me you're hurting my feelings ok?? aaaa

It's okay, I don't expect her to answer my points either, mostly cause she's Christian, mostly cause she's ignorant, mostly cause... I'll stop.

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Response to Why Did God Create Satan? Jan. 8th, 2012 @ 01:37 PM Reply

Satan used to be good until he realized that God is a douche bag who destroys villages and floods planets for fun!


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Response to Why Did God Create Satan? Jan. 8th, 2012 @ 01:44 PM Reply

Alright, I've seen some pretty good arguments for why God did/didn't create Satan.

So my other question is, does Satan have any effect on Earth? Can he tempt people, can he speak to them or convince them to do things? Can he deceive them, or make the Earth seem older than it is (referring to Genesis and the Earth actually being 4.6 billion years old). Could Satan make the earth seem 4.6 billion years old if it wasn't? If so, why doesn't God revoke that power?


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Response to Why Did God Create Satan? Jan. 8th, 2012 @ 01:45 PM Reply

At 1/8/12 01:44 PM, Scarface wrote: Alright, I've seen some pretty good arguments for why God did/didn't create Satan.

So my other question is, does Satan have any effect on Earth? Can he tempt people, can he speak to them or convince them to do things? Can he deceive them, or make the Earth seem older than it is (referring to Genesis and the Earth actually being 4.6 billion years old). Could Satan make the earth seem 4.6 billion years old if it wasn't? If so, why doesn't God revoke that power?

Because God cannot destroy, only create, but he mostly just likes to create diseases, big ass floods/deadly storms.


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Response to Why Did God Create Satan? Jan. 8th, 2012 @ 01:47 PM Reply

At 1/8/12 01:28 PM, s0und wrote: Emma stop ignoring me you're hurting my feelings ok?? aaaa

*Continues to ignore* Haha.

At 1/8/12 01:31 PM, Shady wrote:
At 1/8/12 01:28 PM, s0und wrote: Emma stop ignoring me you're hurting my feelings ok?? aaaa
It's okay, I don't expect her to answer my points either, mostly cause she's Christian, mostly cause she's ignorant, mostly cause... I'll stop.

He hadn't presented any points.

I would address your argument if it hadn't been answered multiple times already (read above and on the first page). Also, if I am so "ignorant", why would you even bother asking me anything or arguing at all?


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Response to Why Did God Create Satan? Jan. 8th, 2012 @ 01:50 PM Reply

At 1/8/12 01:45 PM, Suprememessage wrote: Because God cannot destroy, only create, but he mostly just likes to create diseases, big ass floods/deadly storms.

But God banished Satan from Heaven, surely he can banish him from Earth as well, and make it so his powers can only affect Hell.


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Response to Why Did God Create Satan? Jan. 8th, 2012 @ 01:57 PM Reply

At 1/8/12 12:27 PM, EmmaVolt wrote: The result of a secondary, independent action is not the responsibility of the primary source regardless of foreknowledge.

That really doesn't get you out of it. God exists independent of time, outside of it. Without sounding too much like a pantheist, creation is ongoing and ever occurring, not just a point in time a while back. If god knew Lucifer would betray him and become a menace (which you admit he did) then he intentionally created the devil. Saying he became the devil after creation is such a poor excuse for the creation that i'm surprised you even try it. Your comparisons with God and the mother of a murderer where foolish at best and at worst highly blasphemous.


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Response to Why Did God Create Satan? Jan. 8th, 2012 @ 02:01 PM Reply

At 1/8/12 01:50 PM, Scarface wrote:
At 1/8/12 01:45 PM, Suprememessage wrote: Because God cannot destroy, only create, but he mostly just likes to create diseases, big ass floods/deadly storms.
But God banished Satan from Heaven, surely he can banish him from Earth as well, and make it so his powers can only affect Hell.

Yeah, but Satan wasn't very powerful back then, plus it's not Satan who persuades us, it's his demons.


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Response to Why Did God Create Satan? Jan. 8th, 2012 @ 02:09 PM Reply

At 1/8/12 01:44 PM, Scarface wrote: Alright, I've seen some pretty good arguments for why God did/didn't create Satan.

I'm glad you have been satisfied!

So my other question is, does Satan have any effect on Earth?

Satan and his followers are able to utilize things such as disease, emotional/psychological pain, and animals to cause suffering. However, he is unable to harm a follower of Christ unless allowed (God never allows anything that we cannot handle and that won't make us stronger).

Can he tempt people, can he speak to them or convince them to do things?

Yes and no. Satan and his followers are able to make things appear attractive that can be extremely detrimental to your physical, emotional, and mental health. However, he is unable to completely control one's will. One must make a conscious decision whether or not to give into the temptation - which will always result negatively despite positive (temporary) emotions.

Can he deceive them, or make the Earth seem older than it is (referring to Genesis and the Earth actually being 4.6 billion years old). Could Satan make the earth seem 4.6 billion years old if it wasn't?

Well, this is multilayered; but, I will answer it as thoroughly as possible.

Satan is able to distort the truth and (along with temptation) make things appear to be what they are not - he is, after all, called the "Author of Lies". His method usually involves taking a slice of truth and exaggerating it with lies that seem to make sense.

Now, with regard to the age of the Earth, I believe you are hinting that believers are deceived into believing the world is 6,000 years old (or, perhaps that non-believers are deceived). Here is what I know:

The agreed age of the Earth (based on time of creation to present) by Biblical scholars is approximately six thousand to fourteen thousand years old. Because this conclusion is founded on a literal interpretation of Genesis (the only logical method of interpretation based on context of the verses), I strongly support that the Earth is 6-14,000 years old.

However, this age, I believe, is not deductive of the "apparent age" of the Earth. If you will notice, all throughout the creation section of Genesis, all created things are so in "adult form". Birds, trees, land animals, humans, etc are all created in their prime - not as children. Thus, it is logical to assume similar for the inanimate. The Earth was probably created in "adult" form (4.6 Billion y.o) despite having only existed for a second. Does this make sense?

I can defend this argument by stating that a universe created in "baby/youth" form would not have been able to support the Earth as it would have plausibly been extremely hostile to life. The universe, I presume, has an actual age of 6-14,000 years with an apparent age of ~15 Billion. Meaning, it operates as if it has existed for billions of years, but is not actually that old.

So, we can see how Satan is able to use a truth (actual age) and distort it (by confusing it with apparent age).

I hope this makes sense, if not, or if you need clarification on something, do not hesitate to ask!

If so, why doesn't God revoke that power?

God allows some truths to be hidden away so that His glory may be seen by those who find the truth, and spread it to others. Also, Satan is not entirely to blame for the mass confusion via a butterfly effect of secular and Christian scientists.


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Response to Why Did God Create Satan? Jan. 8th, 2012 @ 02:12 PM Reply

god created an angel named Lucifer he was the most beautiful there was. but he wanted to be more powerful then god so he lead a rebellion against god with other angels this struck back and god had struck them and send down below from heaven and and all those he rebelled


"Did I ever tell you what the definition of insanity is?
was her name tenneassi
omtish

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Response to Why Did God Create Satan? Jan. 8th, 2012 @ 02:22 PM Reply

At 1/8/12 01:57 PM, PIED3 wrote:
At 1/8/12 12:27 PM, EmmaVolt wrote: The result of a secondary, independent action is not the responsibility of the primary source regardless of foreknowledge.
That really doesn't get you out of it.

You never really elaborated on this, but rather, deviated into completely different subjects that do not challenge my statement in the slightest.

God exists independent of time, outside of it. Without sounding too much like a pantheist, creation is ongoing and ever occurring, not just a point in time a while back.

You are mixing two aspects of reality. God is outside of the physical universe (so yes, time as well). Unfortunately, you seem to be confusing God with Creation (?). Creation is not ongoing and ever occurring as it is within the bounds of our universal dimensions. Creation had a beginning, and will have an end.

If god knew Lucifer would betray him and become a menace (which you admit he did) then he intentionally created the devil.

You jump two logical premises here. God created Lucifer - yes. God knew Lucifer's future actions - yes. God caused Lucifer's future actions - no. God created Satan - no.

God intentionally created a self-aware being able to make his own decisions. As I said before, foreknowledge of another (independent) action, is not a factor with which one can determine responsibility. Lucifer created Satan through his actions.

Your comparisons with God and the mother of a murderer where foolish at best and at worst highly blasphemous.

You have no idea what "blasphemy" means; moreover, I am certain you skimmed over my post as you clearly missed the hypothetical undertone used to parallel two similarly ludicrous suggestions.


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Response to Why Did God Create Satan? Jan. 8th, 2012 @ 02:24 PM Reply

i think god created satan because i mean god gets bored after a while and well he needs something to keep him sane.


i will form my foot in your ass!

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Response to Why Did God Create Satan? Jan. 8th, 2012 @ 02:39 PM Reply

At 1/8/12 01:20 PM, EmmaVolt wrote: I think it's disappointing that many followers of Christ choose to ignore an entire book (Revelations). It's definitely a frightening read, but one that could potentially save/protect your life - if not peace of mind - with the right precautions and preparation.

Is that where all this end of the world stuff is? Maybe I will get some use out of the Bible Mum gave to me after all... Any other places of note I should check out?

The most groundbreaking discovery I had on this subject was the myth that hell is eternal suffering and not eventual death (second death) - nonexistence. So, seeing as it is temporary home, I have a strong feeling each individual will have their own sentencing similar to that of prisons today.

I'm a little confused here - are you saying the widespread notion that hell is an eternity of torture is not accurate and instead you die (again) after a certain amount of time there? That's certainly something I'd never considered. I always thought the souls that entered hell were essentially recruited into Satan's army and tormented until the fight shortly after Jesus' return (is that the Battle of Armageddon you mentioned?). And then after the fight Jesus takes all his followers to Heaven and Earth's left as a chaotic mess ran by Satan.

That's just what I gleaned from the religious influences I had growing up though, I've never extensively looked into it so forgive me if they seem like wild childish imagination haha.


I'll probably read this in ten minutes and facepalm. - RageVI

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Response to Why Did God Create Satan? Jan. 8th, 2012 @ 02:41 PM Reply

A lot of what I know about the relationship between God and Satan comes from C.S. Lewis and John Milton. They wrote The Screwtape Letters and Paradise Lost, respectively. While not actual religious texts, they both come from deeply pious, not to mention brilliant and educated men. I give both a stamp of approval.


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Response to Why Did God Create Satan? Jan. 8th, 2012 @ 02:42 PM Reply

At 1/8/12 11:33 AM, Scarface wrote: The world would be essentially perfect without Satan. Adam and Eve wouldn't have sinned, people wouldn't have temptations, and no one could go to hell? Why did God create Satan? Or, if he didn't know Satan would be so evil, why does he continue to give Satan the power to affect things or people on Earth?

He didn't create satan, one of the angels who was serving god got greedy with power and wanted to be more powerful than god but god denied to let him be more powerful than god then he was angry so he turned evil.

Got all of that from the bible.

Click my sig, it says so.

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Response to Why Did God Create Satan? Jan. 8th, 2012 @ 02:43 PM Reply

God was bored..

I know cuz i was at his party last night


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Response to Why Did God Create Satan? Jan. 8th, 2012 @ 02:44 PM Reply

"You cannot have light without a dark to stick it in."

Darkness, or evil has always been there, even before the good.


[I've been wandering round but I still come back to you]

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Response to Why Did God Create Satan? Jan. 8th, 2012 @ 02:46 PM Reply

At 1/8/12 02:43 PM, jonathanfis wrote: God was bored..

I know cuz i was at his party last night

i said that you copied me thats the only reason hes sane same with natural disasters he just needed more woman.


i will form my foot in your ass!

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Response to Why Did God Create Satan? Jan. 8th, 2012 @ 02:47 PM Reply

Satan is what happens when you think differently. So remember kids if you have a hive mind and be a complete tool, God will love you!


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Response to Why Did God Create Satan? Jan. 8th, 2012 @ 02:56 PM Reply

At 1/8/12 02:39 PM, FIGMENTUM wrote:
At 1/8/12 01:20 PM, EmmaVolt wrote: I think it's disappointing that many followers of Christ choose to ignore an entire book (Revelations). It's definitely a frightening read, but one that could potentially save/protect your life - if not peace of mind - with the right precautions and preparation.
Is that where all this end of the world stuff is? Maybe I will get some use out of the Bible Mum gave to me after all... Any other places of note I should check out?

In terms of End Times, Daniel and Isaiah do have quite a bit of prophecy (but, as far as I know, much of it consists of predictions that have already been fulfilled or are being fulfilled). Of course, there are accounts of Jesus Himself giving words of advice on the matter as well - I'm not sure about the specific books though. Revelations will be your best source though. But, keep in mind that it is extremely difficult to understand at times, as it is frequently symbolic and vague seeing as it was written by a first century man, haha. Also, I do not recommend searching online for all answers without being founded in the Text!

The most groundbreaking discovery I had on this subject was the myth that hell is eternal suffering and not eventual death (second death) - nonexistence. So, seeing as it is temporary home, I have a strong feeling each individual will have their own sentencing similar to that of prisons today.
I'm a little confused here - are you saying the widespread notion that hell is an eternity of torture is not accurate and instead you die (again) after a certain amount of time there?

Absolutely. A friend of mine, along with family have recently been asking many questions that really have only been answered by the media and tradition. A few months ago, we came to a definitive conclusion that Hell is not a place of eternal suffering (for humans). So, John 3:16's word "perish" makes much more sense now beside "eternal life", wouldn't you say? How can one spend an eternity in hell without eternal life - achievable only through Jesus Christ?

That's certainly something I'd never considered. I always thought the souls that entered hell were essentially recruited into Satan's army and tormented until the fight shortly after Jesus' return (is that the Battle of Armageddon you mentioned?). And then after the fight Jesus takes all his followers to Heaven and Earth's left as a chaotic mess ran by Satan.

Satan leads a battle against the Lord's followers in the Battle of Armageddon; but, I do not believe those already dead are participants. I could be wrong. There is a ton of untangling to do now knowing that eternal suffering is a myth.

That's just what I gleaned from the religious influences I had growing up though, I've never extensively looked into it so forgive me if they seem like wild childish imagination haha.

It's okay! I used to believe the "Left Behind" stories and traditional kid stories meant to scare you or make you feel fuzzy. This is a common dilemma in the Western world, and one of the reasons so many people are confused by "Christian" behavior.

You might also find it interesting (if you didn't already know) that there is no "Secret Rapture" ever mentioned in the Bible. Left Behind is a complete fairy tale that a lot of people have fallen for and think is in Scripture. Believers are stuck on Earth just like everyone else until the very end! *scared face* haha.


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Response to Why Did God Create Satan? Jan. 8th, 2012 @ 03:06 PM Reply

At 1/8/12 03:00 PM, Xyphon202 wrote:
At 1/8/12 11:50 AM, EmmaVolt wrote: religious stuff
Yeah, let's just forget the fact that God already knew that Satan was going to do what he did and did nothing to stop him.

"Nothing to stop him"? Are you unaware of the purpose of hell? Also, one of my posts contains the reason for why God seems to be doing nothing (waiting until as many people are saved as possible). Satan will ultimately be destroyed, along with anyone who chooses to follow his way of "life".


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Response to Why Did God Create Satan? Jan. 8th, 2012 @ 03:09 PM Reply

Yes, but then again Satan didn't really exist in the bible until the John gospel bible came out. Which came after the other three gospels.


#AMAFORSEXSLAVE2014

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