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Ding Dong the Tyrant's dead!

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Korriken
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Ding Dong the Tyrant's dead! 2011-12-18 23:11:49 Reply

yeah, the fucker's dead.

Ok maybe this time I'll see about writing out my thought BEFORE accidentally clicking on "post it", then say "Fuck it, i'll finish it later."

So anyway, Kim Jong Il has kicked the bucket. Apparently a life of luxury will kill you in only about 60-70 years. His supposed successor is rather young, in his 20s even. We'll see how his, uhh, leadership plays out. (military puppet)

so what happens next? Well, you know that bag of Jiffy Pop that's in the back of your cabinet? go get it. the show's about to start.

While I don't expect anything other than business as usual to come of this, given that the new "leader" will either fall in line with the communist party, or will be completely controlled by it.

we'll see... I think it'd be funny if he ended up making a sudden public statement to throw everything on it's face, especially if he mentioned opening up to the world... yeah right.

My prediction: nothing much will change. Best Korea just has a younger person to pray to every night before they go to bed.


I'm not crazy, everyone else is.

Iron-Hampster
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Response to Ding Dong the Tyrant's dead! 2011-12-18 23:23:02 Reply

Stalin was worse than him i believe, so was Mao, neither of those two got replaced by anyone who was near as bad as those two. in both scenarios, they were seen for who they really were after their death.

I think the reason this happens is because under those two batshits, their party members lived in a state of perpetual fear. Yes they had luxurious lifestyles but being closer to their leader meant being under closer scrutiny. I don't think it will turn out much different for Kim. They will remain a dictatorship but it will be a lot more mild than the last one.

They will probably get a puppet from china to tone things down, since China was getting rather frustrated with their aggressive behaviour.


ya hear about the guy who put his condom on backwards? He went.

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NowRah
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Response to Ding Dong the Tyrant's dead! 2011-12-18 23:34:35 Reply

Shame he didn't die before he had kids. I guess if he had been childless some crazy guy high up in the Government would have taken his place, though.

MultiCanimefan
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Response to Ding Dong the Tyrant's dead! 2011-12-19 00:32:11 Reply

One thing is for sure, is that if he decides to open up the country, prepare for a modern-day version of Eisenhower visiting concentration camps for the first time. Who knows what really horrible secrets are hidden inside, and I personally can't wait until the whole thing is blown wide open before they get a chance to dress it up before hand.

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Response to Ding Dong the Tyrant's dead! 2011-12-19 00:58:44 Reply

At 12/19/11 12:32 AM, MultiCanimefan wrote: One thing is for sure, is that if he decides to open up the country, prepare for a modern-day version of Eisenhower visiting concentration camps for the first time. Who knows what really horrible secrets are hidden inside, and I personally can't wait until the whole thing is blown wide open before they get a chance to dress it up before hand.

I doubt that Kim Jong-Un would be any better than his father, but if he does for whatever reason open up the country, you're darn right it'll be like postwar Europe.

VenomKing666
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Response to Ding Dong the Tyrant's dead! 2011-12-19 01:13:43 Reply

At 12/19/11 12:58 AM, Ranger2 wrote:
I doubt that Kim Jong-Un would be any better than his father, but if he does for whatever reason open up the country, you're darn right it'll be like postwar Europe.

He looks like a neckbeard, I bet he'll play wow all day.

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Response to Ding Dong the Tyrant's dead! 2011-12-19 01:17:55 Reply

There was an article yesterday talking about how we were going to be giving food aid to North Korea in exchange for open talks about postponing their nuclear weapons program. Here Makes me think we are trying to get in good with the new leader/governing body before they continue on as usual.

Also, (in a bit of conspiracy theory mind set) that the the CIA or US government must have had pretty decent sources in the North Korean government to be able to learn of this guys death before the press got hold of the story.


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Response to Ding Dong the Tyrant's dead! 2011-12-19 01:31:19 Reply

At 12/18/11 11:11 PM, Korriken wrote: yeah, the fucker's dead.

from article: "Kim suffered 'great mental and physical strain' while on a train during a 'field guidance tour,; North Korea's state-run KCNA news agency reported."
hehe, bunga-bunga.

also; ewwww

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Response to Ding Dong the Tyrant's dead! 2011-12-19 02:36:01 Reply

Well, all I can say is that whatever happens, I hope that the entire Pyonyang regime completely destabilizes and collapses... but that's being too hopeful. I highly doubt that Kim Jong Il was the sole ruler before he died; North Korea is probably one of the most heavily policed and organized country in the world. All of the other military and political leaders are still alive and doing their job, so yeah, I echo the "nothings going to change" sentiment.

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Response to Ding Dong the Tyrant's dead! 2011-12-19 03:31:37 Reply

At 12/18/11 11:34 PM, NowRah wrote: Shame he didn't die before he had kids. I guess if he had been childless some crazy guy high up in the Government would have taken his place, though.

He's got three kids, and his eldest is already in line to get appointed, the middle child is a
"little girl" and his youngest son started as a 4 star general in the military....

must be really good..

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Response to Ding Dong the Tyrant's dead! 2011-12-19 08:14:37 Reply

It's hard to say how he will steer North Korea. He was educated in Switzerland so it's possible he could be less hardline than his father. Seeing as how he is at the top of the food chain now, it's entirely possible things will be business as usual, especially with old generals who want to stay in power.

Depending on how other countries react and what he took away from his European education, it is very likely that North Korea will be much more liberal in the next 10-20 years under Kim Jong-un's ruling.


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Korriken
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Response to Ding Dong the Tyrant's dead! 2011-12-19 08:40:57 Reply

At 12/19/11 03:31 AM, Cochises wrote:
He's got three kids, and his eldest is already in line to get appointed, the middle child is a
"little girl" and his youngest son started as a 4 star general in the military....

must be really good..

Well, he got appointed there because of his daddy, not because he's a military genius. He probably had no REAL duties, except to wear a general's uniform and sit quietly at meetings.

Course, it'd be interesting to see his 2 brother say, 'why does HE get to be god-king? I'm older than he is!" and spark a civil war. a civil war that South Korea, if played right, would win by moving in an annexing north korea.


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Response to Ding Dong the Tyrant's dead! 2011-12-19 12:39:10 Reply

What do you know? Kim Jong-il was one of the Christopher Hitchens' enemies and they both died within a few days of each other! I knew there was something up with Kim Jong-il, because I went to MSN.com and it said something about the new leader of North Korea. There was also this clip from "Team America: World Police Force" that depicted Kim Jong-Il that's been becoming popular lately.


You know the world's gone crazy when the best rapper's a white guy and the best golfer's a black guy - Chris Rock

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Response to Ding Dong the Tyrant's dead! 2011-12-19 13:03:32 Reply

At 12/19/11 11:38 AM, RightWingGamer wrote: Am I the only one who thinks it's odd that Homefront was only 2 weeks off on the actual date?

Kinda makes you wonder what else they could get right on that.

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Response to Ding Dong the Tyrant's dead! 2011-12-19 14:06:00 Reply

Well, Jong Il has been ill (heh) for some time, so it's likely that they've had an "interim" goverment setup in place for a while now, so while Jong Un matures, his leadership role will as well. Until then, true leadership will likely be in the hands of the Military Junta. It'll be another 10 years before any significant change happens (if at all).


Tis better to sit in silence and be presumed a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.

TheMason
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Response to Ding Dong the Tyrant's dead! 2011-12-19 15:47:18 Reply

At 12/18/11 11:23 PM, Iron-Hampster wrote: Stalin was worse than him i believe, so was Mao, neither of those two got replaced by anyone who was near as bad as those two. in both scenarios, they were seen for who they really were after their death.

But this is neither the USSR nor the PRC. Instead this is the only hereditary Communist dictatorship to ever exist. Furthermore, they have been more successful in setting-up a police state and cult of personality that actually diefies the Kim family.

So while the rest of the world already knows who these people are (read: The Aquariums of Pyongyang)...his people do not.

At 12/19/11 01:17 AM, BUTANE wrote: There was an article yesterday talking about how we were going to be giving food aid to North Korea in exchange for open talks about postponing their nuclear weapons program. Here Makes me think we are trying to get in good with the new leader/governing body before they continue on as usual.

This is part of a cycle that the US and other members of the Six-party group have been involved in since the 1990s. So there is probably nothing more than coincidence at play here.

Also, (in a bit of conspiracy theory mind set) that the the CIA or US government must have had pretty decent sources in the North Korean government to be able to learn of this guys death before the press got hold of the story.

I doubt very seriously that the US has any sources inside the North. About all that we know about the regime comes from defectors. For the most part these are peasants or low-ranking soldiers with just a smattering of high level civilian authorities who've fallen out of favor with the regime.

If we did get the story about his death before the press...it's just because we intercepted the TV signal before the press got ahold of it.

I would like to see your source on this though...I hadn't heard that the government knew before CNN or Fox.

At 12/19/11 03:31 AM, Cochises wrote: He's got three kids, and his eldest is already in line to get appointed, the middle child is a
"little girl" and his youngest son started as a 4 star general in the military....

1) His eldest son was in line to be the "Great Successor"...but he took his family on an unsanctioned trip to Tokyo Disney and lost his Kingship.

2) There was talk about his daughter taking up the reigns of power since the official line in N. Korea is gender equality...and several women from the Kim family do enjoy some positions of power in the government.

3) His youngest son, Jong Un, was named next in line sometime before January 2009. So he's been groomed for quite sometime now.

At 12/19/11 11:38 AM, RightWingGamer wrote: Am I the only one who thinks it's odd that Homefront was only 2 weeks off on the actual date?

Love the game...and that's scary as hell!

At 12/19/11 02:06 PM, Ravariel wrote: Well, Jong Il has been ill (heh) for some time, so it's likely that they've had an "interim" goverment setup in place for a while now, so while Jong Un matures, his leadership role will as well. Until then, true leadership will likely be in the hands of the Military Junta. It'll be another 10 years before any significant change happens (if at all).

One of the things I'm interested in is how long has Jong Il been dead? In some of these very closed, and very secretive totalitarian states we've seen leaders who died LONG before the state media announced their deaths. Kinda makes me wonder if Kim's been dead for a couple of weeks (or months) and the power struggle isn't already over.

As for who is in power...it is probably a triumverant of Jong-Un and his paternal aunt and his uncle. Both of these individuals are well connected into the military and have been mentoring him for some time. So I imagine that the truth is he is more figurehead at the moment and as his family sees him grow into his position he will get evermore power.


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TheMason
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Response to Ding Dong the Tyrant's dead! 2011-12-19 15:55:06 Reply

The interesting thing is that shortly before announcing Jong Il's death...the DPRK military (KPA) test-fired two short-range missiles. I personally believe it was a show of force that the DPRK government was firmly in control of the country and remained strong despite the loss of "Dear Leader".

I am a little concerned that there could be some exchange of fire along the DMZ and some of these contested islands after the 10-day period of mourning.


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Response to Ding Dong the Tyrant's dead! 2011-12-19 18:53:27 Reply

At 12/18/11 11:23 PM, Iron-Hampster wrote: Stalin was worse than him i believe, so was Mao, neither of those two got replaced by anyone who was near as bad as those two. in both scenarios, they were seen for who they really were after their death.

I think the reason this happens is because under those two batshits, their party members lived in a state of perpetual fear. Yes they had luxurious lifestyles but being closer to their leader meant being under closer scrutiny. I don't think it will turn out much different for Kim. They will remain a dictatorship but it will be a lot more mild than the last one.

They will probably get a puppet from china to tone things down, since China was getting rather frustrated with their aggressive behaviour.

Of course, Kim Jong Il was a successor to a guy who was also batshit crazy, so I don't think it really applies (especially since the party isn't concerned with implementing Communism).


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Response to Ding Dong the Tyrant's dead! 2011-12-19 20:20:08 Reply

At 12/19/11 03:47 PM, TheMason wrote:
But this is neither the USSR nor the PRC. Instead this is the only hereditary Communist dictatorship to ever exist. Furthermore, they have been more successful in setting-up a police state and cult of personality that actually diefies the Kim family.

things change, a betting man would have said that his skill as a tactician in the civil war and Lenin's recommendation would have been more than enough to get Trotsky into power.

Here we have an interesting set up, a brutal dictator who oppressed his people and scared his party members shitless for years is dead and he is now trusting the military to take charge until his crazy son takes charge. They don't have to give that power to his son, they may use him as a figure head if they are super super nice but they have probably had enough of the purges and seemingly random accusations of treason. If they are really really scared they might just reveal the truth and try him with treason just like the PRC did with Mao's wife and a bunch of his closest buddies.

Add Chinese influence into the picture and I think you can expect a McDonald's in Best Korea soon.


ya hear about the guy who put his condom on backwards? He went.

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Response to Ding Dong the Tyrant's dead! 2011-12-19 20:44:53 Reply

It comes to no surprise that Kim Jong-iI finally bit the dust and thus will be recognize as the bad leader he is, every leader no matter how good or bad can't stay in power forever.

That said, one way or another, old leaders are replaced with new leaders, if a leader is good, a good leader works for one's followers accommodated by the needs of the followers, if a leader is bad, the bad leader makes it so that the followers work for that leader.

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Response to Ding Dong the Tyrant's dead! 2011-12-19 23:59:07 Reply

At 12/19/11 11:38 AM, RightWingGamer wrote: Am I the only one who thinks it's odd that Homefront was only 2 weeks off on the actual date?

Once you think about it, they must've known something about Kim Jong before the rest of us ever knew about it, or it could be just pure coincindence on their part.

Anyways, I'm hoping that Kim Jung-un isn't going to be like his father, and continue to troll the whole world about nuclear weapons and invading South Korea. Although chances are, it's probably going to be business as usual in the world's most isolated shithole, you still got to have some hope that Jung-un would not be the same hardass like his dad was, and not try to piss off China and Russia {among other countries} any more than it is now.

Of course having the military take power at this point is a very tricky situation, and if the hardliners have their way along with Kim-Jung un carrying on in his dad's footsteps, then all bets are off.


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Response to Ding Dong the Tyrant's dead! 2011-12-20 00:27:41 Reply

I actually have hope for the new leader. He is young and it seems as though through out his life he has gotten quite a bit of contact with the outside world so he has known for a long while what is really going on in the country. Hopefully he will realize that the entire world will see him as a hero if he loosens things up for the country. I don't care if he does it for that wrong and vain reason as long as he does it.


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Response to Ding Dong the Tyrant's dead! 2011-12-20 04:40:51 Reply

At 12/18/11 11:11 PM, Korriken wrote: My prediction: nothing much will change. Best Korea just has a younger person to pray to every night before they go to bed.

I heard on the BBC that he's too young to run North Korea, so some sort of Grand Vizier will take over.

Maybe Robert Mugabe isn't the last dictator standing, after all.

Oh, wait, there's that military dictatorship in Burma, isn't there. Sorry, Myanmar.

What other dictatorships are there?


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Response to Ding Dong the Tyrant's dead! 2011-12-20 09:02:48 Reply

At 12/19/11 08:20 PM, Iron-Hampster wrote:
At 12/19/11 03:47 PM, TheMason wrote:
But this is neither the USSR nor the PRC. Instead this is the only hereditary Communist dictatorship to ever exist. Furthermore, they have been more successful in setting-up a police state and cult of personality that actually diefies the Kim family.
things change, a betting man would have said that his skill as a tactician in the civil war and Lenin's recommendation would have been more than enough to get Trotsky into power.

Huh?


Here we have an interesting set up, a brutal dictator who oppressed his people and scared his party members shitless for years is dead and he is now trusting the military to take charge until his crazy son takes charge. They don't have to give that power to his son, they may use him as a figure head if they are super super nice but they have probably had enough of the purges and seemingly random accusations of treason. If they are really really scared they might just reveal the truth and try him with treason just like the PRC did with Mao's wife and a bunch of his closest buddies.

While that would be a wonderful and amazing outcome...I fear it is one of the least likely. The problem with N. Korea is it is Plato's Cave made real. The people there do not have access to the outside world...even Kim's son. Yes he attended a Swiss military school, however he had personal teachers and was not allowed interaction with the other students. That's why you don't see a bunch of classmates on CNN talking about who he was and what kind of stupid stuff he did in college.

So while the leadership may know the truth...the other 99% of the country doesn't and worships the Kim family as gods. So how do you suddenly reveal Oz for the fraud he is to a population who has been starved economically, politically and spiritually?

So if Jong-Un is revealed as just another petty dictator...there will still be chaos and probably civil war. Furthermore, we will see a humanitarian crisis no one has seen since the end of WWII.


Add Chinese influence into the picture and I think you can expect a McDonald's in Best Korea soon.

I doubt it, Chinese influence will be to reinforce the status quo.


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Response to Ding Dong the Tyrant's dead! 2011-12-22 08:37:09 Reply

At 12/20/11 09:02 AM, TheMason wrote:
At 12/19/11 08:20 PM, Iron-Hampster wrote: Add Chinese influence into the picture and I think you can expect a McDonald's in Best Korea soon.
I doubt it, Chinese influence will be to reinforce the status quo.

Really? Are we seriously going to see China knee jerk the situation and bolt down / prop up (delete as applicable) North Korean interests, despite the fact it may jeopardise the carefully forged relations with the Western Nations.

China is in a very difficult situation here and they are going to have to really work hard to try and maintain a status quo, which may not be possible, because if they support the North's position on enforcing the suffering of the Korean people at large, the West will have a field day.

What we have is a bubbling crock pot of issues that aren't going to be solved easily. Do the generals struggle for power? Do they rally behind Kim Jong-Un, or does one of them make a play for control, probably resulting in at least a second Korean War, possibly even WWIII, which I think we can all agree that no-one wants.


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Response to Ding Dong the Tyrant's dead! 2011-12-22 11:05:55 Reply

At 12/19/11 12:32 AM, MultiCanimefan wrote: One thing is for sure, is that if he decides to open up the country, prepare for a modern-day version of Eisenhower visiting concentration camps for the first time. Who knows what really horrible secrets are hidden inside, and I personally can't wait until the whole thing is blown wide open before they get a chance to dress it up before hand.

Be carefull what you wish for, we start pointing fingers and they will turn violent. I doubt we will ever know the extent that man went to in order to keep controll.

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Response to Ding Dong the Tyrant's dead! 2011-12-22 12:11:18 Reply

At 12/22/11 11:05 AM, Sabbalonn wrote:
Be carefull what you wish for, we start pointing fingers and they will turn violent. I doubt we will ever know the extent that man went to in order to keep controll.

sending his own people to Siberia to work and Best Korea gets the paycheck.. how far do you think he went? to the rulers of Best Korea, the people are cattle to be used for their amusement and well being. People suffering in the streets? no problem, as long as the Dear Leader was able to afford his top shelf cognac every night. Ever notice how FAT the Kim family is? everyone else in Best Korea are starving and these guys better resemble Porky Pig.

Look at Kim Jong-Un. He looks like he never missed a meal, ever. Normal people starve so they can feast on delicacies from all over the world.

and if you DARE make contact with someone outside of Best Korea? you just broke the law and will probably get sent to Siberia...


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Response to Ding Dong the Tyrant's dead! 2011-12-22 19:33:06 Reply

At 12/22/11 12:11 PM, Korriken wrote: Look at Kim Jong-Un. He looks like he never missed a meal, ever. Normal people starve so they can feast on delicacies from all over the world.

I've read accounts from Jong-Il's personal chef that the rice that passed over the lips of the "Dear Leader" was hand picked so that a sub-standard grain never entered the temple that is Dear Leader. (He's not dead...just sleeping!)

Also he could tell when his chefs changed how much spices and salt were used in his meals by even the most minute amount. What a palet! I'm pretty sure Jong-Un has inherited the same great traits!

Which makes it ironic because Jong-Un was selected because his older brother went to Disney in Japan and he stayed home lamenting that the Kim family "has fun together, eats delicious meals and rides jet skis".

Two days later (back in '09) he was introduced to the powers that be as the next leader of Best Korea.


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Response to Ding Dong the Tyrant's dead! 2011-12-22 19:41:01 Reply

At 12/22/11 08:37 AM, Coop wrote:
At 12/20/11 09:02 AM, TheMason wrote: I doubt it, Chinese influence will be to reinforce the status quo.
Really? Are we seriously going to see China knee jerk the situation and bolt down / prop up (delete as applicable) North Korean interests, despite the fact it may jeopardise the carefully forged relations with the Western Nations.

I wouldn't use the term "knee jerk" because I'm sure Bejing has been thinking about this for quite awhile.

* North of the Chinese/N. Korea border there are 2 million ethnic Koreans living in China. This is problematic because there are some in this population that would like to see this part of the country annexed by a reunified Korea.

* China has problems of their own economically speaking, and many Koreans who can see the lights of China long for a better life with family that got caught on that side of the border. In their present economic state...they don't need to worry about diseased and malnouished Korean refugees.

* The reasons above is a receipe for political instability in a quasi-police state that has no qualms about human/civil rights when it comes to political stability and the health of the regime.

* They assume that the US will remain a military presence on the penninsula because it keeps the peace between Korea, China and Japan. However, while our presence there benefits them...it also makes them nervous. They are fine with us below the 38th parallel...just not above it (that's why they entered the first Korean war in the first place).

* Regime change could mean chaos and the biggest humanitarian crisis in the world becoming public...thereby forcing them to deal with it politically, economically and militarily.

So no...they want nothing to do with reunifaction or regime change. They want the peace and quiet and domestic tranquility offered by the status quo.


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Response to Ding Dong the Tyrant's dead! 2011-12-22 20:39:02 Reply

so Saddam Hussein, Muammar Gaddafi, and Kim Jong Il are sitting in a bar in hell, Saddam looks over and says, "I can't believe my own people HANGED ME!" Gaddafi looks at Saddam and says, "You got lucky, they shoved a stick up my ass, then shot me." Then Kim Jong Il said, "Hell, at least you went out with a bang, I just killed over while I was on a train ride."

(I made it up as I went along, I don't expect it to be funny at all)


I'm not crazy, everyone else is.