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Dogbert581
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Response to Automatic four year sentence... Dec. 19th, 2011 @ 05:16 AM Reply

At 12/18/11 07:03 PM, Proteas wrote:
You know how the police in England work. Scotland, on the other hand, is completely seperate (legally) from the way England and Ireland work. So you commenting on how you "know" how the police in your "country" work is about as asinine as me commenting on how I "know" how the police in Canada work.

The legal systems aren't that different. Scotland may have slightly different guidelines, but they are still extremely similar to England and the rest of the UK. Because we are still one country we have a lot more similarities in policing than Canada and US. Commenting that I know how the police in scotland work would be the same as you commenting you know how the police in Mississippi work. Sure there may be regional differences, but in the majority of cases its exactly the same.

And on top of that, Zero Tolerance is just that, ZERO TOLERANCE. It does not err on the side of common sense, it does not distinguish between right and wrong, it just goes with what is presented in front of it; somebody who was stupid enough to get caught in public with a knife.

Ok, look at it this way. You're the Chief Constable, you know knife crime is a problem. Given that one of the primary purposes (if not the main purpose of a knife) is to kill/injure. Also, given that someone who has been stopped and searched must have done something to make the police suspicious of them. Would you order your officers to adopt a zero tolerance policy regarding people caught with knives - nick them and you can establish the reason for why they carry the knife down the station? Or would you order your officers to completely ignore anyone caught carrrying a knife, because hey they probably mean no malicious intent with it?

Don't try to make out like I'm saying something I'm clearly not.

Because nowhere in this thread have you made it out like I was saying something I clearly wasn't

No, I'm saying you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground.

Do you always insult people like that? How did you ever get to be a mod?

Proteas
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Response to Automatic four year sentence... Dec. 19th, 2011 @ 05:57 PM Reply

At 12/19/11 05:16 AM, Dogbert581 wrote: Sure there may be regional differences, but in the majority of cases its exactly the same.

My point remains; you're not from Scotland, you don't have anything resembling firsthand knowledge on the issue, and as such, do not qualify as the authority on the matter you think you are.

Ok, look at it this way. You're the Chief Constable

It wouldn't be up to me, because my job isn't to make the law, my job is to enforce the law. And if the law is a zero-tolerance policy that says I have to make arrests on people who have knives, guess what I'm going to do? I'm going to enforce that law. I don't get to pick and chose which laws I enforce or how, because if I did, I wouldn't have a job... especially if I tell my men to ignore the law or enforce it however they see fit.

And you can take your little package deal fallacy and cram it, buddy, because I'm not saying they shouldn't enforce the law at all and let people run amok in the streets, I'm showing you how ludicrous this whole situation is. No matter how much you hem and haw over how you THINK it will be enforce, it is a Zero Tolerance Law, and they will not listen to excuses and they will not listen to reason. They are going to prosecute the law abiding alongside the criminals.

Do you always insult people like that?

Just the ones I think are especially stupid, namely you right now.

But I forget, you're English; I could fart in your general direction and you would get offended.

*fart*

How did you ever get to be a mod?

I said lot worse than that before selling my eternal soul to become a mod, believe me. You might faint if you were to go through some of my earlier insult work.....

PENIS.


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Response to Automatic four year sentence... Dec. 19th, 2011 @ 06:30 PM Reply

At 12/19/11 05:57 PM, Proteas wrote:
My point remains; you're not from Scotland, you don't have anything resembling firsthand knowledge on the issue, and as such, do not qualify as the authority on the matter you think you are.

I may not be Scottish, but I have spent a good deal of time in Scotland. You're not Scottish either, in fact you're not even British. Therefore, I have far more knowledge about British legal affairs than you do. I am not going around claiming I know more about American legal affairs than you do. You are no where near the authority on this matter you think you are

Just the ones I think are especially stupid, namely you right now.

But I forget, you're English; I could fart in your general direction and you would get offended.

I'm British actually

I said lot worse than that before selling my eternal soul to become a mod, believe me. You might faint if you were to go through some of my earlier insult work.....

PENIS.

You know what, it appears that no matter what I say on this topic you still refuse to listen to me, or even read my posts. Instead, you comment on single sentences in those posts rather than addressing the whole post.

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Response to Automatic four year sentence... Dec. 19th, 2011 @ 07:10 PM Reply

At 12/19/11 06:30 PM, Dogbert581 wrote: You know what, it appears that no matter what I say on this topic you still refuse to listen to me, or even read my posts. Instead, you comment on single sentences in those posts rather than addressing the whole post.

I have addressed you're whole post; you have no fucking clue what you're talking about. Not a one. If they were going to selectively enforce this the way you say they are, this wouldn't be an issue, it wouldn't even be a topic of discussion as it probably wouldn't have even made the news. They'd be enforcing the law in a logical and rational matter that no one would disagree with, so what, Kim Jong Ill just died and there are bigger issues to talk about that knife crime in Scotland.

What's pissing you off right now is you know I'm right, and there's not a thing you can do about it.


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Response to Automatic four year sentence... Dec. 20th, 2011 @ 12:24 AM Reply

I was about to be pissed off and go on a rant about how the 2nd Amendment should include this, but then I realized that this takes place in the UK. Must suck for you guys and I hope you get this sorted out. Four years for just having a blade on you (which is common here in America at least) is just silly.


For I am and forever shall be... a master ruseman.

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Response to Automatic four year sentence... Dec. 20th, 2011 @ 03:29 AM Reply

I will say this one last time, the law may say zero tolerance but policemen aren't robots: they will not enforce zero tolernce and will use common sense in deciding when to enforce it.

All policemen do it. I'm sure even in America (where you apparently dilsike the police) they do it. For instance as far as I know the age of consent for sex is 18 (16 in some states). That means if policemen were to enforce the letter of the law instead of applying common sense an 18 year old having sex with a 17 year old would be charged with statuatory rape. How many 18 year boys do you know who were arrestedand charged with statuatory rape for having sex with their 17 year old girlfriend?

You may bang on about how it says zero tolerance, and thus anybody who carries a knife will get 4 years no matter what the reason. I am saying that will never happen no matter what the law says. As I have said before, the British press tends to side against the police. Certainly the tabloids would love a story like 'Man who buys set of kitchen knives for his mothers christmas present gets 4 years'. Everytime an article like that appears over the enxt six weeks, feel free to PM me and rub my nose in how you were correct, until then, stop acting like you know how the British police will operate.

What's pissing you off right now is you know I'm right, and there's not a thing you can do about it.

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Response to Automatic four year sentence... Dec. 20th, 2011 @ 06:05 PM Reply

At 12/20/11 03:29 AM, Dogbert581 wrote: I will say this one last time, the law may say zero tolerance but policemen aren't robots: they will not enforce zero tolernce and will use common sense in deciding when to enforce it.

And I will say it again, because you are as wrong as Richard Simmons saying he's not gay; the law is zero tolerance, and it is the job of the police to enforce the law. If they don't, they are out of a job. Just because YOU say they won't enforce it does not reflect reality, unless you just so happen to be a scottish police officer who can go on record publicly and say so...

Hold that thought for a minute.

All policemen do it. I'm sure even in America (where you apparently dilsike the police) they do it.

They sure as hell didn't selectively enforce it for the kid with the guns, now did they? The guns were unloaded in a locked car and the kid had no malicious intent, but he was still expelled for it.

How many 18 year boys do you know who were arrestedand charged with statuatory rape for having sex with their 17 year old girlfriend?

Depends on how much of a shit the parents give about their daughter.

You may bang on about how it says zero tolerance, and thus anybody who carries a knife will get 4 years no matter what the reason.

We both speak the same language, dogbert, what part of this article are you not getting?

I am saying that will never happen no matter what the law says.

And you are on drugs. That wasn't the China White you bought off that dealer, it was Comet and Ajax mixed with lidocaine and it's showing through in your posts.

As I have said before, the British press tends to side against the police.

Except, the police have come out and said they will enforce a zero tolerance policy, remember?

Scotland's top law officer, Lord Advocate Frank Mulholland QC, said the six-week pilot will involve a zero-tolerance approach to the problem.

Mr Mulholland said: "The public will wish to enjoy the festive period in our towns and cities without fear. The zero tolerance crackdown should help to deter anyone stupid enough to think about carrying a knife.

"I am pleased the prosecution service can provide support to further deter knife crime and protect communities. If the threat of severe penalties for breaking the law deters the serious offence of knife carrying and prevents one act of violence it will have been a success.

....

Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill said: "Tackling knife crime is an absolute priority for this Government and we have made clear that Scotland's prosecutors and the courts have my full backing in using the full force of the law to punish anyone who carries or uses a knife.

"We believe the key to tackling knife crime is a combination of tough enforcement on the streets, backed by education. Latest statistics show this approach is working with the number of people caught carrying an offensive weapon down to its lowest level in a decade, and those caught carrying a knife in Scotland now being punished through the longest prison sentences in a decade."

Certainly the tabloids would love a story like 'Man who buys set of kitchen knives for his mothers christmas present gets 4 years'. Everytime an article like that appears over the enxt six weeks, feel free to PM me and rub my nose in how you were correct, until then, stop acting like you know how the British police will operate.

I don't have to know how they'll operate, I've already got their word on it. Their word > you're word.

What's pissing you off right now is you know I'm right, and there's not a thing you can do about it.

Let's review, shall we?

- The word of the article is "zero-tolerance," not "selective enforcement."
- The top law officer said they will be enforcing "zero-tolerance," with full government support.
- You refuse to admit that Zero-Tolerance means exactly what it's defined to mean.
- You refuse to see how stupid this whole situation is.

And you still want to claim you're right in this matter?

You're pathetic.

Automatic four year sentence...


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Response to Automatic four year sentence... Dec. 20th, 2011 @ 06:24 PM Reply

Their have been a few great posts made here and I'm pissed off I have only had a chance to skim read them. Got to go out again but I can reply to one point made because it is actually important.

Scotland dose have an entirely separate legal system: http://www.supremecourt.gov.uk/

"The Supreme Court is the final court of appeal in the UK for civil cases. It hears appeals in criminal cases from England, Wales and Northern Ireland. It hears cases of the greatest public or constitutional importance affecting the whole population. "

Notice Scotland is absent, and we also have an entirely separate, education system, church etc etc. Its not like two separate councils implementing different by-laws. It is completely separate. A doubt Al Megrahi would have gotten out of an English gaol :)

Anyway need to get back to business but looking forward to coming back to this!

At 12/19/11 05:16 AM, Dogbert581 wrote:
At 12/18/11 07:03 PM, Proteas wrote:
You know how the police in England work. Scotland, on the other hand, is completely seperate (legally) from the way England and Ireland work. So you commenting on how you "know" how the police in your "country" work is about as asinine as me commenting on how I "know" how the police in Canada work.
The legal systems aren't that different. Scotland may have slightly different guidelines, but they are still extremely similar to England and the rest of the UK. Because we are still one country we have a lot more similarities in policing than Canada and US. Commenting that I know how the police in scotland work would be the same as you commenting you know how the police in Mississippi work. Sure there may be regional differences, but in the majority of cases its exactly the same.

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Response to Automatic four year sentence... Dec. 21st, 2011 @ 06:27 AM Reply

At 12/20/11 06:05 PM, Proteas wrote:

unless you just so happen to be a scottish police officer who can go on record publicly and say so...

I may not be a scottish police officer, but the number of British police officers (that includes English, Welsh and Scottish) I know on a personal or semi personal basis is very high. Talking to them you can see that just because they have been told to act one way doesn't necessaqrily mean they'll do that. And this goes all the way up to pretty senior police officers. They all apply common sense in cases such as this.

Depends on how much of a shit the parents give about their daughter.

Whether the parents give a shit or not, hte law has still been broken. It is still the police's duty to enforce that law. Whether they do or not is down to their own common sense

And you are on drugs. That wasn't the China White you bought off that dealer, it was Comet and Ajax mixed with lidocaine and it's showing through in your posts.

When you can't prove someone wrong any other way, its always a good idea to imply they're on drugs. I would love to see that argument stand up in any proper debate.

'Mr Speaker, with regards to the Prime Minister's comment about the economy, he is clearly wrong'
'Mr Speaker, the right honourable member is so wrong on this matter that he must be on some mixture of heroin and anti freeze'

Yeah, that definitely means you have high quality debating skills. How long before you call me a Nazi?

As I have said before, the British press tends to side against the police.
Except, the police have come out and said they will enforce a zero tolerance policy, remember?

Scotland's top law officer, Lord Advocate Frank Mulholland QC, said the six-week pilot will involve a zero-tolerance approach to the problem.

Except that the Lord Advocate isn't a policeman. He's the equivalent of the attorney general, the QC tells you he is a lawyer. In that article there is no quote from a police officer explaining how they will enforce the law

Let's review, shall we?
- The word of the article is "zero-tolerance," not "selective enforcement."

Because if the word of the article was 'selective enforcement' they would have to then list all the instances where it was not to be enforced.

- You refuse to admit that Zero-Tolerance means exactly what it's defined to mean.

As I said before, if you come across any articles during the next six weeks with headlines like 'Man's christmas present gets him 4 years' feel free to PM me and rub my nose in it.

And you still want to claim you're right in this matter?

If you find any of those articles and PM them to me I will happily admit I was wrong. If you can't find any evidence of a man getting arrested for buying christmas presents rest assured I expect you to do the decent thing and admit you were wrong.

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Response to Automatic four year sentence... Dec. 21st, 2011 @ 10:42 PM Reply

At 12/21/11 06:27 AM, Dogbert581 wrote: They all apply common sense in cases such as this.

Sorry, but you're about as believable to me as Miss Cleo at this point. Keep reading.

Whether the parents give a shit or not, hte law has still been broken.

Who do you think is going to tell the cops about the crime, hm? The 18 year old boy, the 17 year old girl, or the parents of the 17 year old daughter when they find out she's been banging an 18 year old boy (and believe me, they will one way or another)? Because the cops aren't going to know unless somebody TELLS THEM or they walk in on the act.

But that's beside the point, let's get back to the main event.

When you can't prove someone wrong any other way, its always a good idea to imply they're on drugs. I would love to see that argument stand up in any proper debate.

I have no idea why you're posting at this point beyond having a wounded pride, I just don't. I'm doing this because I'm bored and have nothing else to do, and I can go on like this for days and weeks, just ask somebody. You seem to keep to returning in a feeble attempt to save face, and it's not working.

Just take this into consideration before you post next; this topic is almost up to 600 pageviews. You and I didn't click on this topic that many times just to respond to each other, there's a lot of people reading this topic watching us who aren't commenting right now. I've been here long enough to know that if I was half as wrong as you'd like me to believe, I'd have more than half of them on my ass in support of you... and yet... they've remained silent.

Except that the Lord Advocate isn't a policeman. He's the equivalent of the attorney general, the QC tells you he is a lawyer. In that article there is no quote from a police officer explaining how they will enforce the law

"Chief Inspector Graham Goulden, of the Scottish Violence Reduction Unit, said: "The Lord Advocate's announcement of a crackdown on knives is vital support to all those many partnerships who work to ensure that Scotland's towns and cities are safe places for the public to enjoy.

"In addition, it will be a reassurance to all those many people who are out and about in our towns and cities as the festive season gets under way that they can enjoy themselves without fear."

Chief Inspector = American Ranking of a Captain, as in, somebody who actually helps enforce the law (click).

So, we have the Lord Advocate talking about how overjoyed he is at this law, we have the Justice Secretary coming out in full support of it, and we have an actual cop (who is in charge of a special unit for this kind of stuff) in full support of it. We also have the fact that this is going on in the United Kingdom, where inanimate objects are routinely blamed for crime and subsequently outlawed and confiscated on a regular basis, so this law and law enforcement officials saying they'll gladly enforce the law isn't that surprising.

Then we have you... random online person of indeterminate origin saying otherwise.

Go back to general forum from whence you came.

Automatic four year sentence...


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Response to Automatic four year sentence... Dec. 22nd, 2011 @ 12:16 AM Reply

At 12/16/11 07:16 AM, Jon-86 wrote:

How the hell is the republic supposed to rise? How can you arm your militia when even knives are being clamped down on> You yanks are fuckin spoilt rotten for choice.

Decent post until you, like many Europeans, went to the knee-jerk reaction of insulting Americans. At this point I don't care about the stupid knife ban, I just know if they ever put a ban on men wearing skirts, the whole country will be in prison.

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Response to Automatic four year sentence... Dec. 22nd, 2011 @ 04:00 AM Reply

You keep banging on about how it will be Zero Tolerance. I keep saying that although the letter of the law says Zero Tolerance policement will be unlikely to enforce it that way. If Zero Tolerance was enforced scenarios like these 2 here will occur frequently throughout the next six weeks.

Scenario 1
'Good Morning Sir, what's in that shopping bag?'
'Good Morning Officer, its just a set of steak knives I bought from Argos, the wife and I are planning to have a steak night tonight'
'Well then Sir, I'm arresting you on possession of a lethal weapon, you do not have to say anything etc.....'

Scenario 2
'Good Afternoon Sir, what's in the toolbox?'
'Afternon Officer, I'm on my way home from work. I work as a handyman so I've got the standard tools, a hammer, chisel, electrical tape and I also have a craft knife incase I need to cut anything'
'In that case, Sir, I am arresting you for possession of a lethal weapon, you do not have to say anything etc...'

How many times do you think those scenarios will play out? If those scenario (and similar ones) aren't occuring on a frequent basis in Scotland then it either means that the police are using common sense and not enforcing zero tolerance, or it means that people have stopped taking their toolboxes to work or stopped buying kitchen equipment from Argos (which doesn't seem ver ylikely)

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Response to Automatic four year sentence... Dec. 22nd, 2011 @ 04:03 AM Reply

At 12/21/11 10:42 PM, Proteas wrote:
Just take this into consideration before you post next; this topic is almost up to 600 pageviews. You and I didn't click on this topic that many times just to respond to each other, there's a lot of people reading this topic watching us who aren't commenting right now. I've been here long enough to know that if I was half as wrong as you'd like me to believe, I'd have more than half of them on my ass in support of you... and yet... they've remained silent.

Surely if I was half as wrong as you'd have me believe then those people would be responding in here jumping to support you?

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Response to Automatic four year sentence... Dec. 22nd, 2011 @ 10:04 AM Reply

At 12/22/11 04:00 AM, Dogbert581 wrote: You keep banging on about how it will be Zero Tolerance.

Because that's what SCOTTISH LAW and SCOTTISH GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS say it is.

If Zero Tolerance was enforced scenarios like these 2 here will occur frequently throughout the next six weeks.

And as you pointed out, how likely are they to even stop and harass such individuals?

Which is more likely....

Scenario 1; they stop the random person going down the sidewalk, find out they have a knife or knives on them, and arrest them.

Scenario 2; they stop the person going down the sidewalk because they are a belligerent drunk, find out they have knives in the bag, and arrest them for public safety reasons.

The cops can't be bothered to go after every last person walking around in a given area, dogbert, that's just obvious and you don't get points for mentioning it. It's too time consuming and no police force on the planet has the manpower, time, or resources to do so. What they will do is go after the ones who decide to act out and raise the suspicion of the police, and they will crack down on those individuals they can make an example out of.

I can see some tradesman getting arrested for having a box cutter on them, or some shopper for having a knife or knives in their bag, but there are going to be extenuating circumstances on the matter, because they want the public's support behind it. It won't matter that the tradesman was your old Uncle Bob coming home from the bar that night and he got into a scuffle with somebody on the way out the door, he was a belligerent drunk in possession of a banned item, and as such, posed a threat to the public.

Your government officials want you docile and agreeable so they can keep stripping away what rights you have with your full support. Before long, this temporary ban on knives is going to become permanent (as one government official in that article hoped it would be), and next they will be after airsoft guns, because those are used in crimes quite often around the UK, are they not?

At 12/22/11 04:03 AM, Dogbert581 wrote: Surely if I was half as wrong as you'd have me believe then those people would be responding in here jumping to support you?

Won't happen, mainly because I'm one of the few conservatives in this forum and in doing so they'd actually have to swallow their pride and admit that a conservative is right for a change. So here I am stuck trying to talk sense to you in a scenario I've seen play out many times past on this forum because nobody else can be bothered to try and set you straight.

The point is, you're in a forum full of people who are (likely) ideologically similar to you, and you're alone arguing with me.


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Response to Automatic four year sentence... Dec. 22nd, 2011 @ 10:10 AM Reply

At 12/22/11 10:04 AM, Proteas wrote: I can see some tradesman getting arrested for having a box cutter on them, or some shopper for having a knife or knives in their bag, but there are going to be extenuating circumstances on the matter, because they want the public's support behind it. It won't matter that the tradesman was your old Uncle Bob coming home from the bar that night and he got into a scuffle with somebody on the way out the door, he was a belligerent drunk in possession of a banned item, and as such, posed a threat to the public.

It also doesn't matter that it was your Aunt Doris stopped in at the bar to have a few drinks on her way home from shopping. She had one too many irish coffee's while she was in there, and got into an argument over the recent soccer match with somebody outside of the bar. That's when the cops showed up and the fun began.


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Response to Automatic four year sentence... Dec. 22nd, 2011 @ 10:27 AM Reply

So you're saying that the only people who will be arrested by this law are the people who do something suspicious or attract the police's attention. And that people who aren't acting suspicious won't be arrested for carrying knives

That's funny because I seem to remember myself saying something exactly like that earlier in this thread

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Response to Automatic four year sentence... Dec. 22nd, 2011 @ 10:54 AM Reply

At 12/22/11 10:27 AM, Dogbert581 wrote: That's funny because I seem to remember myself saying something exactly like that earlier in this thread

Yeah, and I told you that you said that, remember? I also told you that you didn't get credit for pointing it out, because it was simply common sense. At no point did I believe that the police were going to setup TSA styled check points and screen everybody in a given town center, that's your mistaken impression.

But the thing is, it's still a zero-tolerance law. You get caught with it, and your ass is grass.


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Response to Automatic four year sentence... Dec. 22nd, 2011 @ 11:05 AM Reply

At 12/22/11 10:04 AM, Proteas wrote:
Won't happen, mainly because I'm one of the few conservatives in this forum and in doing so they'd actually have to swallow their pride and admit that a conservative is right for a change. So here I am stuck trying to talk sense to you in a scenario I've seen play out many times past on this forum because nobody else can be bothered to try and set you straight.

The point is, you're in a forum full of people who are (likely) ideologically similar to you, and you're alone arguing with me.

Flawless logic, just because no one is supporting me that must mean everyone is against me. Where do you come up with these brilliant examples of debating skills?

Also you seem to have incorrectly labelled meas a leftist liberal. On virtually every situation I would consider myself a conservative and slightly to the right of Margaret Thatcher. OK I am aware that even the most die hard British conservative is no where near as right wing as many American conservatives but I would still consider myselfa conservative. Why should these people jump to my support and admit a conservative is right for a change?

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Response to Automatic four year sentence... Dec. 22nd, 2011 @ 11:30 AM Reply

At 12/18/11 12:26 PM, Proteas wrote:
At 12/18/11 11:27 AM, Dogbert581 wrote: He knew the possible consequences of his actions, he has no one to blame for his expulsion but himself
I find it ironic that you're taking the lawful neutral stance on this issue and simply agreeing with the law because it is the law. You fail to recognize that there was absolutely no malice or ill intent with this kid bringing these weapons to school, he was simply an idiot who didn't think to stop and drop them off at home.

Meanwhile, you bitch and gripe and complain about how the zero-tolerance policy (and that's what the article refers to it as, a zero-tolerance policy) that Scotland is adopting will not recognize the difference between legitimate and illigetimate reasons for somebody to carry a knife.

Perhaps this is a fine illustration of what djack said, earlier; "Out of curiosity, how many of the people against this would still be against it if it was about guns instead of knives?"

That may be the case in America, in the UK it is the opposite. I know several members of the police who's roles range from standard copper up to firearms expert. They all say the police have to be so careful in search incidents. Procedure has to be followed every step of the way. The reason is, at even the slightest cry of foul play, the media (and by association the general public) instantly jump on the side of the person making the accusation and vilify the police.
That's the way it is here in America, where if you so much as fill out a form wrong you can have a lawsuit on your hands. And guess what? Police abuse and misconduct still happens, and the police can and will do whatever they can to falsify documents and make it look like everything is legit.

That's the difference between you and me; I recognize that too much power placed in one man's hands isn't a good thing. You guys have placed so much power in the hands of your government that you have no choice left but to follow with what they say because you have no ability to stand up and change things, and this is what you've been left with; a nanny state that can and will remove your rights at a moment's notice for "your best interests."

Make fun of the rednecks who say "they want our guns!" and groups like the National Rifle Association all you want, at least at the end of the day I can still carry one of these on me.

Violence leads to violence. Why carry a knife ?

So you stab someone, in self defence. Well done you, your'e wallet could cost a life. Thats zero tolerance, you don't ask questions, you dont' ask why he steals you're wallet, you don't know his situation. You are scared about giving away controll, a view which most backwards americans share. So tell me, why should i put my life in the hands of you ? Why do you get the controll to take their life ? The issue isn't the right to carry a blade. The issue is the right to kill

Sure you have you're knife, and the law allows that. You criticise someone for saying "taking the lawful neutral stance on this issue and simply agreeing with the law because it is the law." Yet what is it you say "at least at the end of the day I can still carry one of these [knife]on me" The irony is almost hilarious.

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Response to Automatic four year sentence... Dec. 22nd, 2011 @ 11:31 AM Reply

At 12/22/11 11:05 AM, Dogbert581 wrote: Flawless logic, just because no one is supporting me that must mean everyone is against me.

If anybody supports this gentleman's logic and can help him defend his point in this exchange, speak now or forever hold your peace.

Why should these people jump to my support and admit a conservative is right for a change?

Because they'd be the ones most likely to support you, wether you call yourself a conservative or not.


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Response to Automatic four year sentence... Dec. 22nd, 2011 @ 12:25 PM Reply

At 12/22/11 11:31 AM, Proteas wrote:
At 12/22/11 11:05 AM, Dogbert581 wrote: Flawless logic, just because no one is supporting me that must mean everyone is against me.
If anybody supports this gentleman's logic and can help him defend his point in this exchange, speak now or forever hold your peace.

I'm assuming you were typing this before the previous poster actually managed to post their post

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Response to Automatic four year sentence... Dec. 22nd, 2011 @ 01:26 PM Reply

At 12/22/11 12:25 PM, Dogbert581 wrote: I'm assuming you were typing this before the previous poster actually managed to post their post

From your alt account, Sabbalonn? Yeah, look at the time stamp, genius.

At 12/22/11 11:30 AM, Sabbalonn wrote: Violence leads to violence. Why carry a knife ?

Because I consider self defense to be a basic human right, in order to preserve my own life. I will not wield that blade against somebody if I don't absolutely have to, because I don't want to end somebody's life. But I will if I am in fear of my own life.

That being said, all you see in that picture is a big scary knife. What you don't see is that when folded, it provides a perfect loaded fist for punches, and makes one HELL of a kubaton for blunt force strikes. It's not some piece of junk knife you get your hands on from a gas station, it's solid.

So you stab someone, in self defence. Well done you, your'e wallet could cost a life.

If somebody wants my wallet, they can have it. I'm not going to kill somebody over a wallet. If they attack me while trying to take my wallet, I'm going to beat the hell out of them. If I feel my life is threatened, they aren't walking away from the conflict.

you dont' ask why he steals you're wallet, you don't know his situation.

I don't give a fuck what his situation is, times are tough for everybody. That doesn't give him the right to go around comitting crime just because of it.

You are scared about giving away controll, a view which most backwards americans share.

As one wise man once said, "Step up or step aside. Step up and handle the situation, or step aside and let the authorities handle it." If I don't step up and take my own personal security into consideration, I'll have to step aside and let the cops deal with the issue when they are taking my statement for "random meth head mugs random civilian, case number 687451398125" in the hospital because they aren't there to protect me 24/7.

You on the other hand are living in a slippery-slope of a country. First it was guns, now it's knives (there was a law enforcement official in that article calling for the ban to become permanent), it won't be too long before they come after airsoft... what's next after that? Canes? I can see it now; you won't be able to have a cane without a license and a doctor's note, and if you lose it, you can't get another one.

So tell me, why should i put my life in the hands of you ?

Because I am not an evil individual, and if I can, I will help.

Sure you have you're knife, and the law allows that. You criticise someone for saying "taking the lawful neutral stance on this issue and simply agreeing with the law because it is the law." Yet what is it you say "at least at the end of the day I can still carry one of these [knife]on me" The irony is almost hilarious.

I have a knife (and soon, a handgun) and the law allows it because there are groups out there who fight tooth and nail to keep America from becoming what the United Kingdom and so many other European countries have become. I can walk down the street and know I have what it takes to ensure my own safety... you don't, because you've relinquished that right, and I pity you.


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Response to Automatic four year sentence... Dec. 22nd, 2011 @ 02:29 PM Reply

At 12/22/11 12:25 PM, Dogbert581 wrote:
At 12/22/11 11:31 AM, Proteas wrote: If anybody supports this gentleman's logic and can help him defend his point in this exchange, speak now or forever hold your peace.
I'm assuming you were typing this before the previous poster actually managed to post their post

That post was a response to a post from 4 days ago and had nothing to do with the level of enforcement on zero tolerance policies (your current argument with proteas). Also given his tendency to spend days arguing with people there are plenty of posters who would gladly jump in if they believed he was wrong (I'd be one of them). Zero tolerance policies get enforced as zero tolerance, I don't see why that needs to be explained. Sure on one side of the spectrum there are going to be some cops who listen to reason and don't arrest everyone they find with a knife but the majority will because that's their job, and on the other end of the spectrum there's going to be douchebag cops who will find any reason to search someone and if they find a knife they will arrest you. Going back to the example of the student who was expelled under a zero tolerance policy, had the guns been found by the type of person who would listen to reason despite the policy (something that would be more common among those who know him) they probably would have found him to discreetly ask him about the guns and would have told him to remember not to bring them. Most people wouldn't however because their job is to enforce that policy which makes sense when you consider the possible downside. What if he didn't get expelled and one day had guns with him again but this time he starts shooting people? Anyone who knew about the guns the first time would not only lose their job but would also be sued by the families of the victims and could face criminal charges all assuming that they didn't get killed when he was shooting people at the school. The same what if could be applied to this policy, if a cop let someone go because their knife was the type of knife normally used for work and they claim they were on their way home from work but that person later stabs someone the cop is going to be held responsible or he could just get stabbed in the back after walking away from the guy.

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Response to Automatic four year sentence... Dec. 22nd, 2011 @ 03:10 PM Reply

At 12/22/11 01:26 PM, Proteas wrote:
At 12/22/11 12:25 PM, Dogbert581 wrote: I'm assuming you were typing this before the previous poster actually managed to post their post
From your alt account, Sabbalonn? Yeah, look at the time stamp, genius.

Yet another lesson from Proteas about good debating skills on forums. If someone disagrees with you they must obviously be an alt of someone else, because we all know only one person is allowed to disagree with Proteas at one time

You said if anyone disagrees with you to post or forever hold their peace and then when someone does you cry unfair play

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Response to Automatic four year sentence... Dec. 23rd, 2011 @ 12:14 AM Reply

At 12/22/11 03:10 PM, Dogbert581 wrote: You said if anyone disagrees with you to post or forever hold their peace and then when someone does you cry unfair play

I was a mod, remember? Do you honestly think I haven't seen this shit before, or that this is the first time I've had it happen to me?

His activity was while you were signed off and not commenting, and yours resumed after he signed off. He appeared out of nowhere to support you with views that you would espouse at just the right time, and just so happens to be one of your countrymen. You've run out of points, you have no argument (not that you had either to begin with, but it sure as hell didn't stop you from posting), no one is coming to save your ass, and you're desperate to save face... so the next logical step would be to create support for yourself.

Here, let me give you a nudge in the right direction. Go play, now.

here's a pic I used to like to use when I was a mod, dusted off just for you.

Automatic four year sentence...


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Response to Automatic four year sentence... Dec. 23rd, 2011 @ 04:42 AM Reply

At 12/23/11 12:14 AM, Proteas wrote:
At 12/22/11 03:10 PM, Dogbert581 wrote: You said if anyone disagrees with you to post or forever hold their peace and then when someone does you cry unfair play
I was a mod, remember? Do you honestly think I haven't seen this shit before, or that this is the first time I've had it happen to me?

Yeah well I can categorically say he is not my alt. Nor am I his alt. I have no idea who he is.

Your skills appear to be fading

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Response to Automatic four year sentence... Dec. 23rd, 2011 @ 10:25 AM Reply

At 12/23/11 04:42 AM, Dogbert581 wrote: Yeah well I can categorically say he is not my alt. Nor am I his alt. I have no idea who he is.

And I'm Jimmy Hoffa's brain in a cyborg body.

Your skills appear to be fading

Develop your own, then we'll talk.


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Response to Automatic four year sentence... Dec. 23rd, 2011 @ 10:37 AM Reply

At 12/23/11 10:25 AM, Proteas wrote:
At 12/23/11 04:42 AM, Dogbert581 wrote: Yeah well I can categorically say he is not my alt. Nor am I his alt. I have no idea who he is.
And I'm Jimmy Hoffa's brain in a cyborg body.

Your skills appear to be fading
Develop your own, then we'll talk.

Well since you're not willing to believe the truth that I am not his alt I don't think there's much point us talking anymore