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Herman Cain ends presidential bid

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Korriken
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Response to Herman Cain ends presidential bid Dec. 8th, 2011 @ 09:26 AM Reply

At 12/8/11 01:36 AM, aviewaskewed wrote:
When you flat out call the accusers liars (you did in your first post). Then back away from that position (your last post) that's backpedaling.

fair enough.

Well, the media reported it because it was news. So let's not act like this was some kind of unprovoked attack on their part or anything. It was news, and it's big news when it relates to someone looking to lead the country. So yeah.

i suppose yellow journalism is still journalism.. and the norm these days.


As far as the proof: what? You expect the accusers to sit there and try their case in the media?

so sweet, near election time I think i might claim that Michelle Obama touched me as a child. who needs proof?

Huh? How do you know all the accusers are Obama supporters? You have proof? You know how they voted in the last election? Careful of that windmill!

well, let's see. Karen Kraushaar works for the obama administration as communications director at the Inspector General's Office of the Treasury Department. # 2 and 3 who didn't share their identity, which of course makes proving/disproving their allegations impossible... so we can't say for certain.

Bialek... it would seem most likely she jumped on the bandwagon looking for money, given her past.

Of course assuming they are true. I'm just providing a counter explanation to your false assertion that if true, it would have been reported, that such a thing happens 100% of the time.

I find it mildly amusing that the news media didn't come out and say, "Anthony Wiener is full of shit, we all know its his crotch, he needs to just admit it!" when he said "I can't say its not me." instead, they report on how the Dems say its a non issue and that he is confusing the media by not admitting nor denying it.

and yet, when these people made their accusations, the media ran with it and began beating Cain over the head with it.

Or maybe they just don't want the scrutiny?

or maybe they're full of shit, or worse, don't exist. I don't give much credibility to a person who makes an accusation and refuses to step forward.

Maybe they don't want the cameras and the media in their faces while all this is going on? Maybe they just want justice, not attention?

justice? what 3rd world country is Cain running in that he can be convicted without facing his accuser?


See? Look how that took me all of 5 seconds to come up with alternate reasons that don't involve the alleged victims being scumbags.

so simple... so simple.... question is. is it the truth? should we assume these women are being completely honest? I should think not. We don't know why exactly these women came forward, and they won't say, and yet people still take them at their word.

and to be clear, Cain handled the mess in a terrible fashion. Suppose he isn't used to the concept of damage control.

It isn't that hard as long as you can take a moment not to be the same kind of person that you bitch about when you say "Obama supporter". You know, the person who blindly follows a candidate and always assumes whatever bad gets said or written about them is false and concocted by some evil bogeyman.

Had they come forward when he first announced his campaign and sunk him from the beginning I wouldn't have batted an eye. I wonder though, had a bunch of women come up and began accusing Obama once he was looking to be the frontrunner if the media would have handled it in the same way. Given the way the media gushed all over Obama, they would have probably had the women exposed and every dirty detail of their life put out for the world to see in order to discredit them.

Not if it's never reported.

one phone call is all it'd take. but why not make the call? I wonder...

Again, see cases in which rape or sexual assault victims don't come forward for years and years. We're seeing that in the Sandusky case. I know this is not comparable to that, of course...but I'm just saying it's plausible the alleged victims's reactions are similar.

those are also children, not adults.

well, from what I've read and heard (and subsequently forgot somehow) is that 2 women did file suits and for a settlement along with a confidentiality agreement. and they decided to come forward again. one of them being Kraushaar. she already got one nice payday out of it. the other hides in the shadows, unwilling to show her face. why not come out? why not show your face and make your accusations in person? it's like sending a letter to the police that your next door neighbor assaulted you, then refuse to testify in court about what happened, and still expect a conviction on the charge.

then you got Bialek, who probably made a small fortune appearing on various TV shows to talk about her "relationship" with Cain. This is a fun read on her too. http://newyorkpost.com/p/news/national/j obless_shameless_gal_going_for_EODvX4qUT V8XoJwYqVF0LJ

Well, as I said before, I'm sure these are all things that will be sorted out at trial.

if it ever does go to trial, which I doubt. I'm sure there's a pile of liberal lawyers lined up to defend them if Cain ever does file a lawsuit.

Yes...I don't think the "tables have turned though". That's only apt if it actually happens. Which I don't necessarily see myself, since things seem to be going in the direction economists predicted a couple years ago.

the economy is a guillotine above the administration's neck. He better hope it doesn't come crashing down before he gets set free by reelection.

Possible, but I think that only works if we get a moderate candidate on the other side for them to switch to. The Republican Party has not been about "moderates" the last few election cycles.

or if people are really that tired of Obama already.

I don't dispute that, I'm just saying without the prospect of another re-election run coming, he may be able to use that to his advantage.

well, the "independents" are a bunch of idiots...

I honestly think that faction is pretty small. Just like I think the left overs of the 08 "Obama is black Jesus" contingent have faded.

Not to mention Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck won't be voting for him this election cycle either.

I think they'll try, but in the end most voters are pretty fuckin uninformed, they only understand black and white. Oh, and blame assignment. So in the end it comes down to which side can more successfully pin the tail on the blame donkey.

so you got zombies and the ignorant choosing leaders. am i the only person frightened by the concept?


I'm not crazy, everyone else is.

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Response to Herman Cain ends presidential bid Dec. 8th, 2011 @ 12:04 PM Reply

This is just...yeah.

soo...


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Response to Herman Cain ends presidential bid Dec. 8th, 2011 @ 12:30 PM Reply

Herman Cain has showed us, Life can be a challenge. Life can seem impossible. It's never easy when there's so much on the line. But you and I can make a difference. There's a mission just for you and me.

What an inspiration!

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Response to Herman Cain ends presidential bid Dec. 8th, 2011 @ 12:50 PM Reply

this could be a new meme. ;)

Herman Cain ends presidential bid

Korriken
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Response to Herman Cain ends presidential bid Dec. 8th, 2011 @ 06:46 PM Reply

At 12/8/11 12:50 PM, WallofYawn wrote: this could be a new meme. ;)

you're late to the party. it already IS.

Herman Cain ends presidential bid


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Response to Herman Cain ends presidential bid Dec. 8th, 2011 @ 07:54 PM Reply

At 12/8/11 06:46 PM, Korriken wrote:
At 12/8/11 12:50 PM, WallofYawn wrote: this could be a new meme. ;)
you're late to the party. it already IS.

That's even better than my image. Now I feel sad. :(

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Response to Herman Cain ends presidential bid Dec. 8th, 2011 @ 10:44 PM Reply

At 12/8/11 09:26 AM, Korriken wrote: the other hides in the shadows, unwilling to show her face. why not come out? why not show your face and make your accusations in person? it's like sending a letter to the police that your next door neighbor assaulted you, then refuse to testify in court about what happened, and still expect a conviction on the charge.

Forgive me, but didn't you just say that that particular case was already settled? Doesn't that imply that there isn't any way in which Cain can be tried for the crime that was alleged in that case? Double jeopardy? So what court are you talking about? If Cain violated the confidentiality agreement of that case by releasing a number of details about it (which is what he did), then she can legally reveal all the details she wants about that trial herself. Doesn't mean Cain is going to be tried for the same thing twice, and nothing she does or doesn't do will change that. Really, what would be the purpose of revealing yourself in this case? What would this woman stand to gain by doing so, other than having her entire life picked apart by the media and political attack dogs alike?

This issue had been dead an buried for years until the media got wind of it and Cain decided to "explain" himself by releasing confidential information about her, violating the agreement, and now you're acting like she owes an explanation to you personally.

By the way, on that thing you guys were talking about, about why someone would choose not to report a crime until many years afterwards; it might be useful to know that only about 22% of rapes and sexual assaults that don't result in physical injuries are reported. I imagine that the numbers are even starker when it comes to mere sexual harassment, and particularly when the harasser is in a position of power (like if he's your boss).

It's been a real treat reading some of your posts Korriken. It's like watching a contortionist the way you twist and flip everything into how everyone is lying and conspiring to topple the one man in the world who has never told a lie in his life, Herman Cain.


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Korriken
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Response to Herman Cain ends presidential bid Dec. 9th, 2011 @ 12:54 AM Reply

At 12/8/11 10:44 PM, Angry-Hatter wrote:
Forgive me, but didn't you just say that that particular case was already settled?

one or two were. they also got a nice limp of cash for it too, then one comes back and lays down the allegations.. again... then other start doing it, at first they were all anonymous, then the media managed to figure one of them out.

Doesn't that imply that there isn't any way in which Cain can be tried for the crime that was alleged in that case? Double jeopardy? So what court are you talking about?

who said Cain ever went to trial for sexual harassment?

If Cain violated the confidentiality agreement of that case by releasing a number of details about it (which is what he did), then she can legally reveal all the details she wants about that trial herself.
Doesn't mean Cain is going to be tried for the same thing twice, and nothing she does or doesn't do will change that. Really, what would be the purpose of revealing yourself in this case?

Besides showing the world you actually exist and are not some made up person? It's not the fact they didn't show themselves bothers me, its the fact the media ran with it without even knowing who is making the accusation. The media did some heavy duty digging to bury all of Obama's naysayers before he was elected, and yet, they don't even look at these women's pasts. No, they just run with it in order to sink him.

What would this woman stand to gain by doing so, other than having her entire life picked apart by the media and political attack dogs alike?

Given the media would have put them on pedestals, like they did with the 2 that did come forward, even inviting them on their shows and giving them piles of money for doing so.


This issue had been dead an buried for years until the media got wind of it and Cain decided to "explain" himself by releasing confidential information about her, violating the agreement, and now you're acting like she owes an explanation to you personally.

Who said to me personally? it irritates me to no end when people try to stick words in my mouth.
no, she doesn't owe ME anything. However, I would like to see a little accountability in the media (yeah right).

It's been a real treat reading some of your posts Korriken. It's like watching a contortionist the way you twist and flip everything into how everyone is lying and conspiring to topple the one man in the world who has never told a lie in his life, Herman Cain.

uh huh... I'll just leave you with this. Does ANYONE think it even mildly strange that a person who is broke can afford a celebrity lawyer like Gloria Allred? Who is paying her fees? She can't be cheap to hire. Also, Why is it that the media never called out Gloria Allred on wanting the United States Senate to subpoena Cain and the accusers to testify before the senate, when the senate has no jurisdiction over such a minor issue and that the statute of limitations had passed?

course, I already know, I'll continue to be attacked while I'm posting here, but so be it.

ALSO.

This isn't the first time Cain has ever run for any sort of office. He ran for president in the year 2000. no accusations sprang up. how very odd.

he ran for senate in 2004. again, no accusations sprang up. how very very odd.

but when he ran for republican nomination THIS year, no accusations sprang up. Indeed odd, that is, until he got ahead of everyone else, then all hell broke loose for him, even going so far as Gloria Allred appearing with a client to put a beating down on cain.

the media never reveals this fact that in 2000 and again in 2004 no one accused Cain of sexual misconduct.

They also fail to ask WHY A woman from Chicago and a Lawyer from California are doing a press conference in NEW YORK CITY! I guess they wanted to be near the talk show studios, people who appear on talk shows do make good money to appear, ESPECIALLY when its a high profile case which will boost their ratings.

But I suppose most ppl on this board have their blindfold on so they can take a swing at the Cain Pinata.


I'm not crazy, everyone else is.

Angry-Hatter
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Response to Herman Cain ends presidential bid Dec. 9th, 2011 @ 03:44 AM Reply

At 12/9/11 12:54 AM, Korriken wrote: This isn't the first time Cain has ever run for any sort of office. He ran for president in the year 2000. no accusations sprang up. how very odd.

he ran for senate in 2004. again, no accusations sprang up. how very very odd.

but when he ran for republican nomination THIS year, no accusations sprang up. Indeed odd, that is, until he got ahead of everyone else, then all hell broke loose for him, even going so far as Gloria Allred appearing with a client to put a beating down on cain.

Hold on, you mean to tell me that a no nothing candidate for president who barely even qualifies as an also-ran and a Senatorial primary candidate who finishes 27 points behind the eventual winner is going to receive less media scrutiny than a candidate who is gaining some actual momentum in the race for the Presidency? That IS odd! I can't quite put my finger on why that might be.

I'm sorry if this offends your sensibilities, but it's simply common sense that when you become a national figure, you're going to be more thoroughly investigated than if you are a practical nobody. If you're running for dog catcher and you have a bunch of skelletons buried in your back yard, you can most likely get by without someone going through the effort of digging them up and it becoming headline news in the national media. A guy with a plausible shot at the White House (or at least the nomination) isn't going to be able to skate by so easily.

These allegations didn't spring from out of nowhere. It doesn't really matter who was digging into Cain's past, or why. The point is that they found something. They didn't make it up; Cain WAS accused by at least two women of sexual improprieties, and he did pay them off to go away.

Now, I don't know about you, but personally, if someone falsely accused me of sexual misconduct, I would fight tooth and goddamn nail to disprove their claims, and I certainly wouldn't want to give them a single cent, let alone 45,000 bucks, and let them get away with it. And if I was somehow manhandled by my attourneys into cutting a bullshit deal like that, there's no way in hell that I'd ever forget about it, like Cain originally claimed he had. More than anything, Cain's reaction and response to the allegations tell me he's as guilty as a nun squatting in a cucumber field. Either he's doing a piss poor job of lying through his teeth, or, the explanation you seem to prefer, he's merely a grossly incompetent politician who can't defend himself against these kinds of baseless allegations.


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Response to Herman Cain ends presidential bid Dec. 9th, 2011 @ 06:24 AM Reply

Herman Cain did Pokemon. And we respected him- as they say, "Life can be a challenge. Life can seem impossible"


I still like Riven Riven Riven Riven Riven Riven Riven Riven Riven Riven Riven Riven!

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Korriken
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Response to Herman Cain ends presidential bid Dec. 9th, 2011 @ 08:04 AM Reply

At 12/9/11 03:44 AM, Angry-Hatter wrote:
These allegations didn't spring from out of nowhere. It doesn't really matter who was digging into Cain's past, or why. The point is that they found something. They didn't make it up; Cain WAS accused by at least two women of sexual improprieties, and he did pay them off to go away.

whoa, hold on a moment, wasn't it argued earlier that there was no chance that this could be some sort of conspiracy? so now someone is saying that, yes, someone dug something up and now it might be plausible that there might be some sort of political motivation behind these accusations?

which may then lead to the possible scenario that beyond the 2 ppl got that paid off that the rest might be full of shit? but even then the ones who did get paid off might have a reason other than "he did this to me and he has to pay, again!"?


I'm not crazy, everyone else is.

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Response to Herman Cain ends presidential bid Dec. 9th, 2011 @ 02:31 PM Reply

At 12/5/11 10:44 PM, Camarohusky wrote:
Romney has the best chance because he can come off as semi-normal, and not batshit crazy. Ron Paul can only pull off the latter.

Respectability and 'Normal-ness' are always relatives, just as people are called front runners because they are CALLED front runners.

Like I said, when people were polled asking who they would vote for in the general election against Obama, Paul performs equally as well.


I think he said that the base is not behind Paul.

I misread him, The word base makes sense now.

Ron Paul is more popular with independents, and republican outcasts.
I don't see this group of independents that loves Ron Paul. I keep looking and looking and looking, but I can't find it. Paul is popular among libertarians and liberals. Among independent and average folk, Paul is looked at as just plain weird. When it comes to independents and average folk, image is twice as important as any stance on the issues.

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2 011/PPP_Release_US_1115513.pdf

These are the numbers for Obama and Romney. Read from top to bottom, Obama, Romney, undecided. From left to right, Base, Liberal, Republican, Independent

46% 82% 9% 38%
43% 13% 81% 38%
11% 5% 9% 24%

Paul and Obama

47% 81% 12% 39%
41% 12% 69% 48%
13% 7% 19% 13%

I don't think Independents actually Adore him like many paleocons, libertarians, and liberals do. But even though his approval with independents is lower than that of Romney, Independents are more likely to side with paul than with Romney.

Though In polls where Romney competes with Obama, he tends to do about as well [sometimes slightly better, sometimes slightly worse] against him as Paul does.
But the problem is Paul has never been able to get traction with the big groups that decide Republican nominations. I'm not saying Paul would be a bad candidate per se. I'm saying that as long as he runs Republican, he has to know he's Don Quixote tilting at windmills.

Yes, and unfortunately, if you want a candidate that has any chance of not killing the US economy, you need a candidate that does not have, and does not require, per say, the blessings of these people.

The evangelicals the neo cons. The two bases that will not vote for a Paul or a Romney, but tend to wield the most power within the Republican Party.

Yeah, It made sense after I read it the second time.

Ron Paul is more popular with independents, and republican outcasts.
But not the mainstream, and the mainstream is who is going to decide the nominee. That's my whole point. It's not a slight on Paul in any way, it's an attempt at a realistic assessment of what the mainstream Republicans are going to do when it finally comes down to picking the nominee.

Again, Mainstream is a relative word. 'Mainstream' or 'undecided' voters are simply people who have zero convictions, and can be lead to believe anything if there appears to be enough consensus about it.


On a moving train there are no centrists, only radicals and reactionaries.

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Response to Herman Cain ends presidential bid Dec. 9th, 2011 @ 05:51 PM Reply

At 12/9/11 08:04 AM, Korriken wrote: whoa, hold on a moment, wasn't it argued earlier that there was no chance that this could be some sort of conspiracy? so now someone is saying that, yes, someone dug something up and now it might be plausible that there might be some sort of political motivation behind these accusations?

which may then lead to the possible scenario that beyond the 2 ppl got that paid off that the rest might be full of shit? but even then the ones who did get paid off might have a reason other than "he did this to me and he has to pay, again!"?

There you go again! It's a freak of nature that your spine doesn't snap into several little neat pieces.

The original accusations themselves were made years ago, long before Cain decided to run for any office. Whoever found the story might have been looking to dig up dirt on Cain, but that doesn't change the fact that they actually did find a sizable amount of dirt. Imagine if it had been a murder that had been covered up, would the motivations of the investigator for looking into the person in the first place matter in the slightest?

And if anything, I believe that it is infinitely more likely that the investigations were instigated by one of Cain's Republican rivals than by any Democratic group. Cain is likely to be one of the weakest candidates for the office on the Republican side, perhaps with the exception of Michelle Bachmann or Rick Santorum, so you're only kidding yourself if you think the Democrats would want to face a Romney, Gingrich, or Perry in the general election rather than a clown candidate like Herman Cain.


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Response to Herman Cain ends presidential bid Dec. 9th, 2011 @ 06:51 PM Reply

At 12/9/11 05:51 PM, Angry-Hatter wrote:
The original accusations themselves were made years ago, long before Cain decided to run for any office.

duh.

Whoever found the story might have been looking to dig up dirt on Cain, but that doesn't change the fact that they actually did find a sizable amount of dirt.

so basically, what you're saying is, "Yes, the resurfacing of the allegations ARE politically motivated"

Imagine if it had been a murder that had been covered up, would the motivations of the investigator for looking into the person in the first place matter in the slightest?

If it had been a murder Cain would either still be in prison, or his record would prevent him from even being able to consider running.


And if anything, I believe that it is infinitely more likely that the investigations were instigated by one of Cain's Republican rivals than by any Democratic group.
Cain is likely to be one of the weakest candidates for the office on the Republican side, perhaps with the exception of Michelle Bachmann or Rick Santorum, so you're only kidding yourself if you think the Democrats would want to face a Romney, Gingrich, or Perry in the general election rather than a clown candidate like Herman Cain.

Romney would be an easy win for Obama. It wouldn't be too hard to say he's. "a white Obama with an R by his name.". Gingrich's past would give Obama plenty of ammo. he'll be labeled a hypocrite and a liar.

Perry will be labeled as someone who doesn't care about the rights of minorities over the execution of Humberto Leal. They could also use this to attack his knowledge (or care) of international law.

what do they have on Cain? not nearly as much. Still, someone wanted Cain removed and they used the dirtiest tactic they could to do it.


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Response to Herman Cain ends presidential bid Dec. 9th, 2011 @ 08:07 PM Reply

At 12/9/11 06:51 PM, Korriken wrote: what do they have on Cain? not nearly as much. Still, someone wanted Cain removed and they used the dirtiest tactic they could to do it.

Call the timing dirty if you want. Hell, call the accusations semi-truths if you want. But saying that there wasn't any ammo against Cain? Really? This guy was Palin-esque the way he created statements that just made him look bad and hardly capable to lead.

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Response to Herman Cain ends presidential bid Dec. 9th, 2011 @ 11:09 PM Reply

At 12/9/11 06:51 PM, Korriken wrote:
Whoever found the story might have been looking to dig up dirt on Cain, but that doesn't change the fact that they actually did find a sizable amount of dirt.
so basically, what you're saying is, "Yes, the resurfacing of the allegations ARE politically motivated"

No, I'm saying that it MIGHT be politically motivated, but that it doesn't matter either way.

If it had been a murder Cain would either still be in prison, or his record would prevent him from even being able to consider running.

It was just a hypothetical. I'm just saying that if someone has something hidden in their past that could be devestating to their public image if it ever came out, it's definitely relevant, and it doesn't really matter WHY it came out.

Romney would be an easy win for Obama. It wouldn't be too hard to say he's. "a white Obama with an R by his name.". Gingrich's past would give Obama plenty of ammo. he'll be labeled a hypocrite and a liar.

Perry will be labeled as someone who doesn't care about the rights of minorities over the execution of Humberto Leal. They could also use this to attack his knowledge (or care) of international law.

what do they have on Cain? not nearly as much. Still, someone wanted Cain removed and they used the dirtiest tactic they could to do it.

Look, I'm not saying those guys are "strong" candidates by any stretch of the imagination. The field of Republican candidates in this election cycle has been deeply flawed, which is a large part of the reason for why there has been such a wild flux from candidate to candidate in the polling. I mean, Donald fucking Trump came in at number 1 in the polling at one point! If that doesn't tell you what a joke these candidates are, I don't know what will.

I keep saying that this is Obama's biggest advantage going into this election, that his potential opponents are so laughably weak that he might eke out a win no matter which one of them he ends up facing.

Romney is a corporate tool who reaks of insincerity; he's flipped on so many core issues that hardly anyone trusts him, let alone the Republican base who will have to turn out for him in the general if he wants to have any chance (and being a scary Mormon isn't going to help him with those voters either). He still has the appearance of being somewhat moderate, and he definitely made the right move in pretending to be against cutting medicare and SS. Whether anyone will believe him is a different question. He's quite gifted at debating, as long as he's prepared ahead of time. Doesn't do so well when someone puts him on the spot.

Gingrich hasn't run a very smooth campaign so far, with many missteps and blunders, like the whole Tiffany's debt mess, half his campaign staff up and quitting, and now the latest revalation of his connection to Fanny and Freddie. He has a lot of baggage, including the vastly unpopular government shutdown that he spearheaded in the mid 90's that likely cost him his job as house speaker, and he might have some difficulty explaining his infidelity and multiple divorces to the values voters. Still, some people might fondly recall his Contract with America plan that propelled the Republicans into a landslide victory in the 1994 mid-terms, and accordingly, he's fairly popular with older voters, which is probably going to help him a lot in the important swing state Florida (where he's currently polling at around 50%).

Perry is a buffoon. He's cast in the same mould as George W. Bush, and his debating skills are at a similar level, which is to say they're horrendous. Obama would run circles around him in the Presidential debates. He also has a record of selling out to corporate interests and using the power of his office to give political donors big favors. On paper, he seems like an ideal candidate for President and he looks the part; long serving Governor of a big state, strong corporate connections and a war chest to match them. He's also one of the few candidates in this race to realize that it's a bad idea to alienate the fatest growing demographic, the Latino vote, so his record on immigration might help him in the general election (if he can get past the voters in the primaries). A Perry/Rubio ticket could spell trouble for Obama.

Now, Herman Cain. Where to start? I guess if you think that foreign policy doesn't matter AT ALL, then Cain is your guy. He just doesn't know what he's talking about. He's like Sarah Palin in this regard, just gets caught off gaurd and makes up something ridiculous, then comes back and tells everyone that he studied up on it over the last couple days, and now he's ready to deal with international affairs. He is about as inexperienced when it comes to running a political campaign as anyone can be, and it shows. His flagship policy, the 9-9-9 plan, is an overly simplistic plan that would decimate the economy by raising taxes drastically on the middle and lower class, while cutting the taxes for millionaires and billionaires enormously. The American people oppose extending the current Bush tax cuts by upwards to 70-80%; if you think they have any interest in a plan that not only cuts the taxes for the wealthy even more, but ALSO raises the taxes for most Americans, you might want to go see a doctor so you can have your brain examined. Cain being black isn't going to magically make black people want to vote for him; polling shows that Obama would beat Cain in the black vote 93-6, which is only marinally better than a Romney/Obama matchup.

In my opinion, one of the few candidates who could beat Obama, fairly easily even, isn't even in this race: Mike Huckabee. His credentials with the religious right are impeccable, but he's likeable enough that less religious voters aren't going to be intimidated by that. He's folksy enough that he can credibly argue from a populist perspective against big government. Why Huckabee ducked out this time is a mystery, but it is likely to have something to do with his couchy new job at Fox News and his nice new home down in sunny Florida. He might still be a contender for the VP slot, if he can be convinced to get off his fat ass and get out there and campaign.


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Response to Herman Cain ends presidential bid Dec. 11th, 2011 @ 02:03 AM Reply

At 12/8/11 09:26 AM, Korriken wrote: i suppose yellow journalism is still journalism.. and the norm these days.

To be honest, I didn't see a massive ton of yellow journalism here. At least not from the outlets I saw, they simply reported the facts as they came out. Inference of guilt, innocence, what have you has been applied elsewhere. But it's not like I followed this intently.

so sweet, near election time I think i might claim that Michelle Obama touched me as a child. who needs proof?

Point sailed right over your head...when you sue someone, or accuse them of criminal actions, it's customary to wait until you get into the actual court room to start presenting proof, arguments, etc. Not to run off to the nearest newspaper or TV camera and say "here's all my evidence and what my case is based on, blah blah blah". I'm hard pressed to think of a single time ANYONE has EVER done what you seem to want these women to do.

well, let's see. Karen Kraushaar works for the obama administration as communications director at the Inspector General's Office of the Treasury Department. # 2 and 3 who didn't share their identity, which of course makes proving/disproving their allegations impossible... so we can't say for certain.

Affiliation or lack thereof with the Obama Administartion is not a qualifier for identifying whether or not the allegations have merit. Come on, you're much smarter then your arguments are making you sound right now.

Bialek... it would seem most likely she jumped on the bandwagon looking for money, given her past.

Very possible. I guess we'll find out when and if the cases go to trial.

I find it mildly amusing that the news media didn't come out and say, "Anthony Wiener is full of shit, we all know its his crotch, he needs to just admit it!" when he said "I can't say its not me." instead, they report on how the Dems say its a non issue and that he is confusing the media by not admitting nor denying it.

I am failing to see how the Anthony Weiner case has anything to do with the validity of the women's claims, and the false assertion you (Korriken) posited, which is what I was specifically talking about. That you made some assertions that are demonstrably false...and you non-sequitor to the media again? If you've got no actual reply to the point I'm making, just don't reply.

and yet, when these people made their accusations, the media ran with it and began beating Cain over the head with it.

The Weiner case and other sex based scandals are covered just as intently. Stop acting like it's a Republican witch hunt and the media never brought down a Dem or placed such scrutiny on him it brought him down. Weiner only admitted wrong doing because he was so scrutinized and couldn't lie well enough on his feet and had been so prodigious in said wrong doing (which with the exception of the allegation he sent pics to a minor, is waaaaay more benign then what Herman Cain is being accused of).

or maybe they're full of shit, or worse, don't exist. I don't give much credibility to a person who makes an accusation and refuses to step forward.

Sounds like a personal problem that has nothing to do with the facts in the case. Like I say, until it goes to trial, or gets settled some other way, we're really just spit balling with the scant facts we have.

justice? what 3rd world country is Cain running in that he can be convicted without facing his accuser?

Uh, has the case gone to trial yet? Has a judge convicted him of anything? Just because their names aren't splashed around in public doesn't mean won't face them in court...this is common sense basic stuff now. Let's leave the ridiculous hyperbole at the door.

so simple... so simple.... question is. is it the truth?

That is indeed the question. Call me old fashioned, but I'm willing to wait for the trial before I make a firm decision one way or the other.

should we assume these women are being completely honest? I should think not.

Why? See, I don't understand why we automatically assume they all are lying unless it's because we have some kind of bias towards Herman Cain.

We don't know why exactly these women came forward, and they won't say, and yet people still take them at their word.

All I'm saying is where there's smoke there's usually fire. But I also readily acknowledge that with scant facts and evidence to go by, it's merely a suspicion on my part.

and to be clear, Cain handled the mess in a terrible fashion. Suppose he isn't used to the concept of damage control.

Guess that's what happens when unqualified novices with no political experience try to run for President :)

Had they come forward when he first announced his campaign and sunk him from the beginning I wouldn't have batted an eye. I wonder though, had a bunch of women come up and began accusing Obama once he was looking to be the frontrunner if the media would have handled it in the same way. Given the way the media gushed all over Obama, they would have probably had the women exposed and every dirty detail of their life put out for the world to see in order to discredit them.

So once again it's back to the media is unfair to Republicans...man I am so so tired of this line...there's bias everywhere. FOX News is Republicans R Us, MSNBC is the Democratic equivalent. Both sides have major network spin factories. That isn't news, and it isn't super relevant here, let's move on from this tedious shit already.

one phone call is all it'd take. but why not make the call? I wonder...

Well maybe if you did a little research into the subject instead of assuming that anything that doesn't make sense to you is automatically nefarious...you might wonder less.

those are also children, not adults.

Those are, but adult women don't always report rape, harassment, or assault either. I'm sure I could get some stats if it'd help you.

I kind of skipped the rest because it's either us agreeing, or seemed I'd just repeat stuff I already said. If I cut something you really think I should respond to though, lemme know.


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Angry-Hatter
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Response to Herman Cain ends presidential bid Dec. 11th, 2011 @ 02:16 AM Reply

At 12/11/11 02:03 AM, aviewaskewed wrote:
those are also children, not adults.
Those are, but adult women don't always report rape, harassment, or assault either. I'm sure I could get some stats if it'd help you.

I got it covered. =)

Women who suffered physical injury in addition to the injury suffered from the rape or sexual assault reported 37% of those crimes, while only 22% of rapes and sexual assaults without an additional physical injury were reported.


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