At 12/1/11 07:18 PM, Jedi-Master wrote:
At 12/1/11 04:54 PM, EmmaVolt wrote:
"Happy Holidays" is obviously not enforced by some legal rule or anything. Rather, political correctness has encouraged people, not obligated them, to say this.
Then, go back to my original question of why it's wrong to say "Merry Christmas" instead of using "law".
What I'm saying is, I don't care. I disagree that it is an endorsement of a religion. It's an endorsement of a holiday. Maybe if you had a giant cross with the story of Jesus's birth on it (with a claim of His divinity), it would be a religious endorsement. A tree symbolizing a specific holiday is NOT an endorsement of a religion.Define Christmas for me, please.
Last time I checked, Christmas is a holiday that celebrates the birth of Jesus of Nazareth,
Here's where you should stop.
perceived to be the "Christ," or savior, and Lord.
Here's where you jump to religion.
You defined Christmas - a holiday - yourself.
The holiday is inherently religious. It defies logic to say that endorsement of a religious holiday by the government is not somehow an endorsement of a particular religion.
It defies your perception, not logic. "Logically" it makes perfect sense. You can endorse a holiday without endorsing an entire religion.
Yeah, okay. Most of those claims are "I'm offended by this person's beliefs".Not true. Local government institutions frequently attempt to impose Christian beliefs on others in subtle ways, and they are nearly always defeated in court for it. If you don't believe me, I'd be more than happy to substantiate my claims with dozens of links.
LOL! What Christian belief is inherently bad for the public? Murder? Theft? Adultery? I'm not understanding what you're trying to say, or how this has anything to do with the topic.
I don't define that as having a hard time.OK, but you are wrong insofar as you have tried to marginalize the difficulties that these people face. They are mostly not offended by the beliefs of Christians. Rather, they are offended by the imposition of these beliefs on them by Christians through government institutions.
Again, which of these beliefs are inherently bad? I'm not necessarily supporting it, I'm just curious as to what the problems are.
This is where my sports analogy fit in: "Related trophies should be banned, and instead be replaced by logos of completely irrelevant tournaments."Your analogy isn't appropriate because sports don't try to impose themselves on others. Saying "Merry Christmas" technically does do this.
It's actually pretty accurate. You arrived at your conclusion because "Merry Christmas" doesn't actually impose a religion, and you don't perceive it that way. But still, get over yourself! Other people have different beliefs. And, it's CERTAINLY not imposing a religion on you when I say that.
Merry Christmas, Jedi :) and a happy New Year!
That's fine. I'm just saying it's VERY immature, given the culture, to get upset when someone wishes you a merry Christmas. If there were a muslim holiday that came around this time of year, and a muslim wished me a "Happy (name of holiday)", as long as the holiday wasn't outrageously offensive, I would appreciate their offer.It may not be immature if the person gets offended because the oter person who wishes them a Merry Christmas ignorantly assumes that the other celebrates Christmas and is a Christian.
Hahaha, wishing somebody a merry Christmas does not assume you are Christian. As many others have pointed out, it is very possible to celebrate Christmas as a non-Christian.
If you, personally, think saying those words is a huge assumption ... I don't know ... get over it?
"Pinch me so I can sue you for assault."Pinching doesn't = assault.
Similarly, "Merry Christmas" is not offensive.
No, you didn't. You proved that the people who went to court had that opinion -Did you not click the link I gave you? It was a poll of Americans asking if they supported separation of church and state--and most supported it.
I'm not talking about separation of church and state ...
Lol, okay. Christmas is a holiday not a religion. Plenty of non-Christians celebrate Christmas.I never said Christmas is a religion. I was talking about Christianity.
Then, what is your entire argument for? You just disowned everything you've been saying. How can the government endorse a "not" religion? Maybe because it's a holiday.
Nah, I think they should be free to say anything related to a non-offensive or exclusively religious holiday. If you get upset by a time of cheer and joy - get over yourself.People aren't getting upset by "a time of cheer and joy." They're getting upset over the whole "Let's endorse one particular religion through the celebration of its holiday on public property."
It's not like the government is saying "Become Christian!" it's saying "Merry Christmas".My point still stands as valid.
Hmm ... no it doesn't.
No, it's endorsing a holiday! Whether you want to jump to religious conclusions is your own problem.Christmas is a Christian holiday. I can't believe you don't realize why it would be an endorsement of religion.
It doesn't have to be a Christian holiday (as proven by non-Christians who celebrate it). So, your argument is really invalid.
it would be different if the government endorsed Easter - because Easter is the direct celebration of a religious belief.How in the hell is Easter more religious than Christmas? One holiday celebrates the birth of Jesus Christ, and the other celebrates his death/"resurrection."
Easter is the celebration of a miracle that is not accepted as a historical event. To make Christmas "religious", you must add onto the Jesus story. That's how "in hell" Easter is more religious.
I guess you wouldn't know though, seeing as you are atheist.
Christmas is - if anything - a celebration of a historical occurrence.So is Easter.
So you admit that Jesus was resurrected? That's fine. I guess our argument is over now, lol.
Oh, and what's the deal with complete impartiality to St. Patrick's Day, then? They sure love to put shamrocks everywhere. That's blatant Christianity endorsement if you know anything about the origin.Shamrocks are clovers. There's nothing Christian about that, even if they were used by Saint Patrick for Christian reasons. They're seen more as symbols of Ireland.
Lol. Christmas trees are pine trees with lights/decoration on them. There's nothing Christian about it. And considering the holiday is actually CALLED "St. Patrick's Day" - celebrating a Catholic teacher - you've really backed yourself into a corner.
I don't, I'm just tired of the circular argument.It's not circular at all. Please tell me how it is.
"Christmas is a holiday."
"No, it's a religion."