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At 12/27/11 04:53 PM, Killinkyle wrote: Entire thread is bullshit. Ghosts have been proven to be halucinations caused by vibrations that create high frequency tones, that cause halucigenic effects of fear and cold.

I would be open to that theory, but it doesn't explain many, many elements of a haunting. It seems very generalizing.

The voices, fine...I'll humor you that they might be hallucinations.
Visions in the peripherals to full-blown manifestations...sure, why not...hallucinations, all. They hallucinated the fuck out of a consistent shadow man, they should get their eyes checked. Unexplainable similarities to human figures in photography, or "evidence" chalked up to nothing more than imperfections, accidents, or tampering. They're all fakes and flubs. Fine.

The overwhelming sensations of emotions and scents that don't make sense...all lapses of sanity in sane people, for some reason, at a consistent location because that's the source of that vibe.

Are they hallucinating the scratches on their arms, backs, legs, and chest that couldn't have gotten there without their knowledge? Were those vibrated onto their skins while they're hearing whispered voices? Are they hallucinating when they're incongruously filled with rage and just want to murder people around them, driven by something unexplained? Did they hallucinate the object that was thrown across the room by nothing? There it lies, broken...maybe they did it, and they just blacked out.

Even if they're hallucinating being strangled.
Hallucinating being touched.
Hallucinating a face they've never seen before, consistently, in the same place.
If they're hallucinating all of this...they are most certainly not vibrating, high frequency tones. If that was the case, then it could be easily reproduced...so show me. Shake me up with high frequency tones so I can experience my first artificial haunting.

All of these hauntings over generations upon generations cannot be chalked up to something that simple...there could be a percentage of people who have claimed to experienced ghostly encounters who are crazy, but they all can't be. A tiny amount of isolated instances where a high frequency vibration made them feel uneasy is believable, but they can't account for the haunted as shit locations. Not when a room full of people experience it all at once. Not when a whole family lives it in one house.

You must be intimidated by the possibility of their existence to dismiss them so quickly.

At 12/27/11 05:00 PM, Xyphon202 wrote: Serious discussion about ghosts... Isn't that pretty contradictory?

Only if you're close-minded.

At 12/27/11 07:54 PM, Phobotech wrote:

At 12/27/11 05:00 PM, Xyphon202 wrote: Serious discussion about ghosts... Isn't that pretty contradictory?

Only if you're close-minded.

Ironically, your the most close-minded of them all.

At 12/27/11 07:55 PM, escobargames wrote:
Ironically, your the most close-minded of them all.

Once again, I'm not completely closed off to the idea that all ghosts are demons, confirming the existence of hell and reversely, heaven, I'm just saying, logically, it's really unlikely.

You're butthurt in nearly every thread someone disagrees with you.

tldr but as far as to the general concept of ghosts il have to say that they do not exist and in most cases of sightings its just the subjects brains that are playing tricks on them.

At 12/27/11 08:04 PM, slugathor wrote: tldr but as far as to the general concept of ghosts il have to say that they do not exist and in most cases of sightings its just the subjects brains that are playing tricks on them.

Okay. Based on what leads you to believe that?

At 12/27/11 08:00 PM, Phobotech wrote:
You're butthurt in nearly every thread someone disagrees with you.

Well, here is a butthurt picture for you.

At 12/27/11 08:14 PM, Phobotech wrote:

At 12/27/11 08:04 PM, slugathor wrote: tldr but as far as to the general concept of ghosts il have to say that they do not exist and in most cases of sightings its just the subjects brains that are playing tricks on them.

Okay. Based on what leads you to believe that?

Out of simple logic, the existance of afterlife/ghosts is highly illogical while the brain in the other hand governs all of every individual persons perceptive world the room for interpretation so large its more logical that the brain in stressfull times tries to interprete situations and events as something that is not real.

At 12/27/11 08:20 PM, escobargames wrote:
Well, here is a butthurt picture for you.

I don't get it. What's the orange thing? Is that supposed to be a fox? Who's the short yellow kid, and what does the "P" stand for...is that supposed to be me? My name starts with a "G", why would I wear a yellow shirt with a P on it...come to think of it, why am I yellow? How do I not have a face? How come I'm so interested in a poorly drawn killer whale drawing, which is clearly supposed to be attached to a fishing rod?

Is that supposed to be a ghost? Jesus, no wonder you're having such a hard time in this thread...you know nothing about ghosts.

Either draw a picture that conveys your point better, or use your fucking brain and have a logical discussion, kid.

At 12/27/11 08:26 PM, Phobotech wrote:

At 12/27/11 08:20 PM, escobargames wrote:
Well, here is a butthurt picture for you.

I don't get it.

Let me break it down for you.

The 'fox' is a demon. Notice the pointy ears and spirit-like body. It is orange because that color symbolizes vitality with endurance. The demon has this because it is a spirit, it is not flesh and bone. You are yellow because that symbolizes intellectual energy, which you are using all of yours on 'ghosts'. The demon has a fishing rod, he is fishing right now for prey, in this picture he is using 'Ghosts' as bait. Notice the generic depiction of what you think they are. You seem to like this type of bait, your pointing at it right now, saying 'Hey, its a Ghost, cool, lets talk about what I think it is, not what the whole picture portrays'. Notice the hook, your about to take the bait and get caught, because the demon has worn your ass out with this ridiculous thread, and he will reel you in, and then eat you.

At 12/27/11 08:56 PM, escobargames wrote:
Let me break it down for you.

But you even drew me pointing at the hook where the picture is clearly attached, so you've drawn me at the moment I realized it's a folley...

This is all over the place...here, does this convey the point better?

At 12/27/11 08:59 PM, Phobotech wrote:
This is all over the place...here, does this convey the point better?

Thats pretty good, I did not intend for it to be a fox, but that works even better because a fox symbolizes camouflage , agility, and cunning-like behavoir. As far as the KKK guy, I was trying to convey 'Casper', 'Slimer', or a spirit of a dead person. What a 'ghost' is stereotypically made out to be, which is what you are saying.

In reality, yes it is beyond the physical, but you are assuming it is something that it is not, its just a trap.

At 12/26/11 11:29 PM, punchoutking wrote: i dont believe in ghosts in a movie sort of way.

Ok.

i do belive in spirtits of dead bodies that "haunt" places and can be sort of sensed when they are around

So exactly as they are presented in movies, then.

At 12/27/11 09:11 PM, escobargames wrote:
Thats pretty good,

Thank you

I did not intend for it to be a fox, but that works even better because a fox symbolizes camouflage , agility, and cunning-like behavoir.

Understood, point conveyed. 'Tis a demon.

As far as the KKK guy, I was trying to convey 'Casper', 'Slimer', or a spirit of a dead person. What a 'ghost' is stereotypically made out to be, which is what you are saying.

Ahh, but there's underlaying historical reference now. The KKK started dressing up as scary things when they rode about harrassing people to fulfill their terrible racist agenda, and eventually settled to have a ghost represent their uniformed body. That may have succeeded in concreting the image of the white sheet as a ghost, which was an easy way to emulate the transparent wisps of ghost stories, and possibly, sightings.

In reality, yes it is beyond the physical, but you are assuming it is something that it is not, its just a trap.

It's not so much of an assumption as it is wishful thinking...I'm aware that it's nothing we can touch, but that's what's confounding to me. Whether or not they're demons or the perpetual dead or whatever they are, the fact of the matter is that it's a sentient entity that responds to the presence of the living and can successfully manipulate solid objects without being solid themselves...sometimes even manipulating the living; their body and mind.

Like I've said over and over again, I'm fascinated about the subject, and would LOVE to find out what they really are. If they're demons, angels, spirits, or energy...but I'm smart enough to realize that, while current ghost hunting equipment is...well, kind of getting there in finding out what ghosts are all about, it's evident that we need a different approach. Like you said, whatever these things are, they AREN'T in the physical realm, but their in something similar...something parallel that we can't quite grasp.

What are the ghost hunting standard equipment? Voice recorders...if it's a good mic, that might be beneficial in picking up voices we can only faintly hear, or even the Electronic Voice Phenomena. I don't see the point in shooting a ghost hunt in fucking night vision cameras, but I would just as soon document it with a camera and a flash light, or in a well lit environment. Others include motion tracking devices, thermal imaging, props to try and get them to interact with like a ball or something....all things considered, really primitive shit, if ghosts are other-worldly things. I think we need something more advanced, and I'm frustrated that I can't exactly say what yet.

Wherever they exactly are, and whatever they exactly might be, or made of, I'm absolutely convinced we could learn something about them if we put them "under the microscope." Not literally, of course, but if we REALLY thoroughly found out the mechanics behind them. The science. If, for lack of a better term, ghosts were brought to light, and we had our greatest minds expirementing for truths about them....there's no telling what we could find out about them, or even ourselves, since a common pattern is they ARE linked to death in some way. That, in itself, sort of makes the subject apply to us all, since we can't escape death. Wouldn't that be worth looking into?

At 12/27/11 09:03 PM, daethdrain wrote: One time I heard rustling in my room. I thought it was a ghost.
It was rats eating the Oreo crumbs n the floor.

Congrats, your house isn't haunted.

Do you think that haunted houses are real, though?

I remember how people like Bill Maher and Penn and Teller make jokes about why ghosts are always in clothes when they shouldn't be. Then again, if there were really ghosts, why would they even have to look like their physical bodies? It's not their physical bodies that are like this, it's their souls and who says their souls have to resemble their bodies? I think the notion is that if there were ghosts, them having clothes is just how we would perceive them.

At 11/20/11 07:35 AM, GhostOfHalloween wrote: i am the ghost of halloween

ask me anything

DO U WANNA FUUUCK

At 12/27/11 10:41 PM, Phobotech wrote:
It's not so much of an assumption as it is wishful thinking...I'm aware that it's nothing we can touch, but that's what's confounding to me. Whether or not they're demons or the perpetual dead or whatever they are, the fact of the matter is that it's a sentient entity that responds to the presence of the living and can successfully manipulate solid objects without being solid themselves...sometimes even manipulating the living; their body and mind.

Yes, I believe all of that is true.

Like I've said over and over again, I'm fascinated about the subject, and would LOVE to find out what they really are. If they're demons, angels, spirits, or energy...but I'm smart enough to realize that, while current ghost hunting equipment is...well, kind of getting there in finding out what ghosts are all about, it's evident that we need a different approach. Like you said, whatever these things are, they AREN'T in the physical realm, but their in something similar...something parallel that we can't quite grasp.

What are the ghost hunting standard equipment? Voice recorders...if it's a good mic, that might be beneficial in picking up voices we can only faintly hear, or even the Electronic Voice Phenomena. I don't see the point in shooting a ghost hunt in fucking night vision cameras, but I would just as soon document it with a camera and a flash light, or in a well lit environment. Others include motion tracking devices, thermal imaging, props to try and get them to interact with like a ball or something....all things considered, really primitive shit, if ghosts are other-worldly things. I think we need something more advanced, and I'm frustrated that I can't exactly say what yet.

I think it depends on the location or person. At my parents house, weird stuff happens all the time, you can feel the presence of something bad at night, and its hard to sleep through, I get sleep-paralysys and what not. When I lived at my apartment, everything was peaceful and not one weird incident at all, I could sleep great without any interruptions.

Wherever they exactly are, and whatever they exactly might be, or made of, I'm absolutely convinced we could learn something about them if we put them "under the microscope." Not literally, of course, but if we REALLY thoroughly found out the mechanics behind them. The science. If, for lack of a better term, ghosts were brought to light, and we had our greatest minds expirementing for truths about them....there's no telling what we could find out about them, or even ourselves, since a common pattern is they ARE linked to death in some way. That, in itself, sort of makes the subject apply to us all, since we can't escape death. Wouldn't that be worth looking into?

It would be interesting finding out because their isn't much information out there. You have to realize what you're dealing with, like turning around and looking at the fox so to speak. The 'ghosts' are smarter, quicker, and more powerful than a human being, they have no physical limitations. I don't think they like to be found out or talked about though.

At 12/28/11 11:56 AM, Ericho wrote: I think the notion is that if there were ghosts, them having clothes is just how we would perceive them.

Not all ghosts are full-bodied, clothed appareritions, though. There's shadow men, which the shape of a man would make sense if the soul or energy conformed to fill the human shaped fleshy shell it once came from...if it came from that body at all. They've even been known to manifest as a ball of light or conversely, blackness. They resemble mists, or an agile, free-moving puff of smoke. Sometimes the smoke and mist will seemingly try to mimick a human form, if it's a small amount, a hand, arm, or face....it's as if they're trying to understand how to resemble what they once were, and it makes sense that if they could control how they're seen, they would reflect clothing more profound in their memory. If they had a favorite hat, like many cowboy or 1800's ghosts maintain, or a favorite dress. A uniform in the battle they died in, or even a dress uniform that they took great pride in.

Who's to say there aren't naked ghosts out there? lol

At 12/28/11 06:28 PM, daethdrain wrote:
No one has ever been hurt in a scary house by ghost.

Sorry, but that's bullshit. There are violent entities, and it's resulted in unexplained injury.

At 12/28/11 12:54 PM, escobargames wrote:
I think it depends on the location or person. At my parents house, weird stuff happens all the time, you can feel the presence of something bad at night, and its hard to sleep through, I get sleep-paralysys and what not. When I lived at my apartment, everything was peaceful and not one weird incident at all, I could sleep great without any interruptions.

I second that. Which is why investigations are done location by location. USS Lexington sailor ghosts don't seem to roam about Corpus Christi anymore than Cowboys of Tombstone wander off into highways. Whatever they are, they're bound to the location...either of death or an area of relevance to them....though it would make more sense if they were all consistently bound by death, with no exceptions, I'm not even clear on that. But in rare instances, employees or residents of haunted locations have the entity actually follow them...which is uncharacteristic of ghosts, and throws off what little we collectively know about them.

It could be worth your family's time to investigate the history of the house to see if anything grim went down there at one time. Luckily this entity doesn't feel the need to follow you home...it's my opinion, though, they're naturally territorial. Maybe not by choice.

It would be interesting finding out because their isn't much information out there. You have to realize what you're dealing with, like turning around and looking at the fox so to speak. The 'ghosts' are smarter, quicker, and more powerful than a human being, they have no physical limitations. I don't think they like to be found out or talked about though.

I meant no disrespect earlier when I shrugged off the notion of what else they could be, and any subsequent negativity was knee-jerk defense against what I thought was trolling.. The reality is actuality a great deal of paranormal investigators refer to some of the more malicious entities as demons. I am agnostic, in that I find lacking evidence to support one faith or another, but I'll be cautious not to let that bias make me defenseless (...though I guess I'm defenseless anyway if they're in a realm beyond my understanding.) I'll be cautious for the worst case scenario...because even a demon would be limitlessly more powerful with more dangerous potential than anything I know about ghosts, should demons turn out to be the real deal.

If they really wanted to be left alone, I imagine with the potential they may hold, and abilities they may have, they would be pretty successful at remaining hidden. However, if sentience is an attribute of theirs, it's only a matter of time before one or several spill the beans in such a way, that the whole concept would transcend lore and become fact. It's only a matter of time before their presence is documented in a big way, what with better technology and knowledge placed in all of our reach.

At 12/28/11 07:45 PM, Phobotech wrote:
It could be worth your family's time to investigate the history of the house to see if anything grim went down there at one time. Luckily this entity doesn't feel the need to follow you home...it's my opinion, though, they're naturally territorial. Maybe not by choice.

I doubt further investigation is needed. I think the house was built in the 80s, its pretty big. I lived there for 5 years. During that time, my brother sold/used hard drugs in the house. He would rip people off for thousands, and still fiends come by asking for dope to this day (he's in jail atm). He's made a lot of enemies doing this. Also, my dad (not currently living here), would be drunk 24/7 acting a fool, cheating on my mother. Now its just me and my mom, and she has lost some marbles. New Ager's would say this brings 'Karma', which I believe is just a name for a Spirit/Demon (Spirit of Karma). This explains the activity at my house. Every time I have someone over, they say," dude theres something wrong about this house, its like a dungeon, I get depressed and sleepy every time I come over".

I meant no disrespect earlier when I shrugged off the notion of what else they could be, and any subsequent negativity was knee-jerk defense against what I thought was trolling.. The reality is actuality a great deal of paranormal investigators refer to some of the more malicious entities as demons. I am agnostic, in that I find lacking evidence to support one faith or another, but I'll be cautious not to let that bias make me defenseless (...though I guess I'm defenseless anyway if they're in a realm beyond my understanding.) I'll be cautious for the worst case scenario...because even a demon would be limitlessly more powerful with more dangerous potential than anything I know about ghosts, should demons turn out to be the real deal.

Yeah I know I am Bible Bashing here, but that is one of the few books that has information about them, but other religions seem to hold some truth about them as well.

If they really wanted to be left alone, I imagine with the potential they may hold, and abilities they may have, they would be pretty successful at remaining hidden. However, if sentience is an attribute of theirs, it's only a matter of time before one or several spill the beans in such a way, that the whole concept would transcend lore and become fact. It's only a matter of time before their presence is documented in a big way, what with better technology and knowledge placed in all of our reach.

Yeah, I think a tidal wave is coming, not sure what that wave is, but somethings coming.

At 12/28/11 07:15 PM, Phobotech wrote:

At 12/28/11 06:28 PM, daethdrain wrote:
No one has ever been hurt in a scary house by ghost.

Sorry, but that's bullshit. There are violent entities, and it's resulted in unexplained injury.

No, there are thousands of documented incidents with people being scratched/clawed with marks. One time during sleep paralysis, I felt two hands pushing on my back while I was sleeping on my side.

At 12/28/11 08:12 PM, escobargames wrote:
... Every time I have someone over, they say," dude theres something wrong about this house, its like a dungeon, I get depressed and sleepy every time I come over".

Kharma or not, there's DEFINITELY a pattern about locations maintaining negative energies. Emotions or trauma seem to linger in a place...even if it's an outdoor battlefield. Where there are these lingering negative energies, though, there sure as hell seem to be a lot of unexplained entities.

Think about it...recurring haunted locations are hospitals, asylums, prisons, and places of war. EACH are hotspots, nearly catalysts for the most extreme emotions of loss, trauma, really thick, POTENT negative emotions. In one end, these spirits are related or connected in some way to death...in the other, they're connected to extreme emotions. That house had it's fair share of some heavy extremes...through a spirit of kharma or demon or what, either it's manifested from that energy, or it's attracted to it...since they react to the living, and are not bound by mass, perhaps they detect spiritual essence, even if it's residue from an intense occupation of these potent secretions of essence.

Yeah I know I am Bible Bashing here, but that is one of the few books that has information about them, but other religions seem to hold some truth about them as well.

Yeah, well, there's always the Necronomicon :P (joking)

Religions of wide, varied cultural background do have consistencies between each other. The fact that most of them seem to address ghosts in some way or another is promising.

Yeah, I think a tidal wave is coming, not sure what that wave is, but somethings coming.

You're not the only one.

Phobotech, do you know how one can defeat a malevolent entity? It seems like it'd be a good idea to know a way to defend oneself and vanquish malicious ghosts or demons.

At 12/28/11 08:42 PM, daethdrain wrote: Like they were stabbed by a ghost and had to go to the hospital? Or they said they got chills in a cold place at night? I mean I've never seen any good proof of someone being attacked by a ghost.

How do you prove being picked up and thrown?

How do you prove being choked?

There's plenty of proof of the famous scratches.

And sometimes they pick things up and throw them at people.

Used to work at a cemetery, there was this creepy doll that would appear out of no where. When I was the only one on the hill weedwhacking I walk over to the tractor to fuel up, look over where I was weedwhacking and sitting on the fresh clippings was this damned doll.

Dunno if ghosts but what else would move this doll?

At 12/28/11 08:45 PM, Light wrote: Phobotech, do you know how one can defeat a malevolent entity? It seems like it'd be a good idea to know a way to defend oneself and vanquish malicious ghosts or demons.

From what I've heard and read, sometimes exorcism's work, and sometimes they don't. In some instances, ghosts are said to linger because they have unfinished business, or an unresolved conflict...you could try seeing what it wants by communicating with it. If it's information that it seeks, then I suppose you could combat it by obliging it with what it wants to know. And if it's not leaving because it feels the location belongs to it, you have two options; stand your ground and let it know it's not welcome there, telling it to gtfo...or simply move.

There are Wiccan and Voodoo and many other kinds practices abound for removing a spirit from a location...and sometimes they work, and sometimes they don't do anything at all....or in rare instances with voodoo, even make it worse...

I have yet to understand what are the more potent "ghost removal" practices are out there.

Serious reply:

They don't exist...

At 12/28/11 06:23 PM, Phobotech wrote: Not all ghosts are full-bodied, clothed appareritions, though. There's shadow men, which the shape of a man would make sense if the soul or energy conformed to fill the human shaped fleshy shell it once came from...if it came from that body at all.

Um, wow. You really know your ghosts. I mean, it's not a science, but you certainly seem to know the basic mythology behind them. While you may never make it as a scientist, at least you would be a great writer.