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At 10/16/11 03:24 AM, sirhenrystudios wrote: this should explain what I was babbling about...

Mildly curious as to why you would trace her photo, rather than just overlay the picture on the photo itself. But whatever.

Anyway, to TreeSapp:

Do you try to construct your heads (and figures) out of basic shapes before you go into doing the final drawings? It can be a great way of keeping everything in proportion and where it's supposed to be. Example attached.

the same reason you didn't, because it looks sloppy and doesn't really show the features of the face I was explaining, I just did a quick red line to show what I was talking about. Good job on being an asshole though.

At 10/16/11 04:36 AM, sirhenrystudios wrote: the same reason you didn't, because it looks sloppy and doesn't really show the features of the face I was explaining, I just did a quick red line to show what I was talking about. Good job on being an asshole though.

Uh. What's your problem Henry? Do we need to go through this again? Aigis was just asking a question. Srsly dude. Sometimes I worry about you.

He didn't ask a question, he was being a dick. I'm trying to help someone out and both of you are acting like immature assholes dude. I obviously didn't draw out a portrait in 5 seconds, I did this as a quick way to outline my critique of her face, because I have had the same problems before. Seriously dude, don't fuck this thread up, just stop while your ahead.

depends, since when do you draw

At 10/16/11 04:42 AM, sirhenrystudios wrote: You guys are assholes and are immature. Blah blah blah blah.

NO U! >:U

Okay I'll stop now.

Guys. Lets be nice to one another. We're all artists, we're supposed have a higher understanding of the world. Now. Lets be nice. We all have butt holes and what comes out of them are pretty. So we don't show them off. Kay?

At 10/16/11 04:23 AM, Fifty-50 wrote: I dunno. These look pretty good in my opinion. But I can't shake off that feeling of it being bland and expressionless. It looks pretty dead if you know what I mean. I'd also like to say you have a pretty inconsistent style. I'm not really sure if that's a bad or good thing, since having multiple styles might be awesome or maybe extremely confusing. I mean how will I recognize your work easily? That might come off a problem.

Maybe it would be better if you used more beautiful and vibrant colors to make your art look more alive. But I gotta say I'm seriously impressed with that lion. The details are pretty much amazing. But it's quite disappointing to see you seem to be unable to apply that level of detail to your other works, you see what I mean by inconsistent?

The reaper thing would look better if you were to add highlights or anything similar. I know he's supposed to be dark and all but you should have given something that will pop out. It's not enough to just splash some paints with no sense of direction and calling it done. I think I sound a bit harsh but I think I'm helping lol. Excuse me for being an asshole.

As for the age thing I'd say your pretty much above the average. Good for you. But I think your technique is quite sloppy and dare I say it again, inconsistent. Some are amazing and others look like somebody else made them. Keep practicing.

Yeah, I think the whole thing with that is some of them are really old. Like last school year and I've practiced a lot over the summer. I think that's why the lion looks so much better. As for my "Death" I was trying to make it dark and creepy but you're right. There were mostly grays and blacks. That's why I added the red cigarette box and lettering. That was my attempt but I guess it kind of failed. And halfway through painting his skull my paint started doing some weird freaky curling thing so I was like Woah, what's going on here. I will definitely try to put more of the detail in my work like I did in my lion. It's just most of the things I do are for my art class and my teacher gets on me about turing things in late, even when they look nice.

At 10/16/11 04:31 AM, Aigis wrote: Anyway, to TreeSapp:

Do you try to construct your heads (and figures) out of basic shapes before you go into doing the final drawings? It can be a great way of keeping everything in proportion and where it's supposed to be. Example attached.

I've never really done that, mostly because I don't really see what you're talking about. No offense to you, but Henry's made more sense to me..

At 10/16/11 05:06 AM, TreeSapp wrote:

I've never really done that, mostly because I don't really see what you're talking about. No offense to you, but Henry's made more sense to me..

He means the lines that are in place around the head, setting up where the eyes, mouth and nose are positioned. Here's an example

At 10/16/11 05:10 AM, sirhenrystudios wrote: He means the lines that are in place around the head, setting up where the eyes, mouth and nose are positioned. Here's an example

Yeah, but it's my face.. It's not supposed to be perfect. It should have a couple problems though right?

True, no one's face is as perfect as artists tend to use for examples, but knowing the structure of the face better, will help you get a more realistic product, or if not realism, knowing what to exaggerate.

THIS IS WHAT REAL LIFE LOOKS LIKE TROUGH OP'S EYES.
ONLY NOW YOU CAN UNDERSTAND!

At 10/16/11 09:23 AM, test-object wrote: No need for being an unfunny git about it, flowers. This is a perfectly fine thread.

I thought it was funny, and Flowers wasn't as much remarking on the thread as he was on your advice.
A: It seems to me pretty likely that the op wasn't actually aiming for some kind of stylization/abstraction but just failed at getting the realism. There is nothing wrong with this, just part of a learning process; that's why aigis and henry gave some tips on how she can use some basic knowledge about facial structure to draw more realistic portraits.
B: Telling someone to just disregard other poeple's advice is 1: disrespectfull to the poeple that offered it and 2: undermining your own position to offer advice (which you did).

@ Henry: When poeple are offering advice, even if it sometimes may sound a bit harsh, they are actually trying to help that person. Being a dick has nothing to do with that.

With that out of the way: @ Treesap
Okay drawings, I'm not gonna lie and say they are amazing, but you're obviously not completely clueless when it comes to making art. The first one you posted and the "make your choice" poster remind me a bit of Mastermerol's style, you might like his work.
I quite like the idea of the poster but, as fifty-50 already pointed out, it's a bit flat. It lacks a clear focal point/read which makes it look a bit messy. Try introducing some more sharp contrasts to draw the eye to a certain area and create some depth. The same goes for the lion drawing, in attached pic I only blackened out the eye and added a highlight in it. That way the eye pops out from the rest of the drawing a bit more, giving the viewer a focal point and the drawing a bit more depth.
On all the pieces you have posted so far, you seem to go about your shading a bit haphazardly; i.e. like you don't really have an understanding of why certain areas would be lighter/darker. art101 has a simple tutorial to get you startedon the basics, including an exercise. Oftentimes it just helps to keep thinking about it while you are drawing: "how does this area get hit by the light, why should this be darker than that etc". Once you understand the basics, you can (and should probably) deviate from it for artistic merit. The same goes for the facial structure; once you know the basics you can deviate from it in a meaningfull way.
Lastly: the low quality pictures don't do your art justice and make it harder for us to critique. Here are some tips on documenting your work.
anyways, keep em coming!

At 10/16/11 10:04 AM, J-qb wrote: ...The same goes for the lion drawing, in attached pic I only blackened out the eye and added a highlight in it. That way the eye pops out from the rest of the drawing a bit more, giving the viewer a focal point and the drawing a bit more depth.

Googoogachoo I am the walrus!

At 10/16/11 02:42 AM, TreeSapp wrote: It's just from this website people were really mean to me to begin with.

Hey, I represent that remark.

and now to prove it.

At 10/16/11 04:42 AM, sirhenrystudios wrote: He didn't ask a question, he was being a dick. I'm trying to help someone out and both of you are acting like immature assholes dude. I obviously didn't draw out a portrait in 5 seconds, I did this as a quick way to outline my critique of her face, because I have had the same problems before. Seriously dude, don't fuck this thread up, just stop while your ahead.

Henry, stow it.
All Aigis was wanting to point out is that with the aid of "Building Blocks" that the artist could have a better understanding of the structure of the face and use that knowledge to have a more solid foundation to build his drawing on. ITS BASIC ART 101.
Its great that you are being supportive of the op, and all around everyone have been rather helpful so far. So how about you don't fuck it up with this little temper-tantrum because someone asked you why you traced instead of showing how to use the basics.

Alright? Ok Good. done, moving on.

OP, I have a suggestion to really help and bring out that reaper. I know that the piece, and the reason for making it is past, but some advise never hurts, right?
Anyway. To help increase the dark feel of the piece and at the same time add a POP factor to it, you should have added some shadow around the edges of the skull. give it a real good feeling of sinking back in to that hood. You really want to slowly work it back in to the black so you see almost no edges. After that you could have added some real strong highlights to some of the most protruded features of the skull. Truly think of skull as a real 3D object and the lighting falling upon it. I see some highlighting and shadows, but I think you could really push it deeper and add a whole new level to this. Quick and dirty example made.
Also Your writing on it is a little unclear. Looking at the piece before reading the text that accompanied, I couldn't really make out what it said. You got to have some level of legibility to aid the reader along. I understand style and personal preference and such, but I think it would be much more impacting if you can understand it just a little.

Your other pieces are alright, The starting pic is kind of weak though. The lion would have made a much nicer start. You could use some anatomy basics and some structural basics, but your young and those things take time to learn.
SO!
Less talk and More Rock, Bring on the Wips and Art.

At 10/16/11 10:19 AM, test-object wrote:

At 10/16/11 10:04 AM, J-qb wrote: I thought it was funny, and Flowers wasn't as much remarking on the thread as he was on your advice.
A: It seems to me pretty likely that the op wasn't actually aiming for some kind of stylization/abstraction but just failed at getting the realism.

Which is exactly the point. She needs to stick to that personal touch. Everyone used to draw things in a way which is considered wrong,

Right... everyone used to wear diapers, let's all wear diapers? Poeple are trying to help her improve; noone is forcing her to do things a certain way, whether or not she uses someone's advice and how she uses it is up to her.

...and it's always such a stupid idea to give them a template as how they SHOULD draw.

Don't you see you are doing exactly that by telling her to forget other poeples suggestions and keep drawing the way she does?

Either way, I explicitly mentioned in my previous post that people agreeing or disagreeing with me are equally correct in doing so.

Actually, you said "it's fine"; which is a lot different from the relativist statement you made just now. If it was your intention all along to stress that this was just your personal opinion/view on the matter, than I misinterpreted you and perhaps you could/should have made that more clear.

However, I'm not going around to reward anyone posting 'funny' drawings with capital letters whoring out for a cheap laugh in otherwise perfectly fine topics/discussions.

There's a difference between applauding something and attacking someone because of it. Besides I don't see how an occasional joke should be a problem for a perfectly fine discussion.

There's less insulting ways to disagree.

I disagree; I don't see how flowers' pic was insulting. It was a joke, you may not find it funny but that's no reason to make more out of it.

At 10/16/11 06:24 AM, test-object wrote: But I personally think you should keep drawing the face the way you actually see people and yourself.

See, you are assuming she already is drawing faces the way she sees them... Don't you consider it a possibility that she had some trouble translating what she saw onto her paper? I know I have had those issues....Other poeple were trying to help her draw faces the way she sees them.

Quick and dirty is right, Kinsei O_o

just how you like it...

Anyways, OP, I'm 15 SO U CAN TOTALLY RELATE TO ME AMIRITE?!?!?
:|
But anyways, I think you can pump up the contrast in that skull piece, as Kinsei had roundaboutly said.
I tend to have the same problem, and I find its easier to just back away from the piece for a bit, come back to it later, and make any changes based on your observations. If you're working digitally, its much easier imo since you can grayscale the image, look at your values, cry a little, and adjust from there. But if you take an art class, just ask your peers (and teacher) for comments and advice, it goes a long way.
---
Also with that piece is that the hand and cigarette package are badly scaled and put at a bad perspective. An actual cigarette box probably wouldn't be as tall, but would be thicker... the hand (as well as the structure of the face) could use some more realistic details.... joints, concave/convex areas, etc....
TL;DR: use some references.
---
The lion is definitely the best out of all of your artwork, and I agree with 50 that I wish there was some more consistency :/

Test- I'm gonna have to side with jqb on this one. You have to understand the rules before you can break them. Beyond that. You can see intention, and the OP was intending to render in a realistic way. So telling her to disregard a formal style is to disregard her intent.

Henry- No dude, you're the asshole. Seriously.

OP- The reason people are commenting on your attitude is that you're comparing yourself to others in your school and neighborhood, and putting yourself waaaaaay above them. It displays a stunning lack of objectivity. Which (credit where due) it actually seems like you came on here to get. If you want to help yourself both give and take a critique leave 'quality of work' at the door. It's a pretty subjective thing at the best of times. And finally there is no general better/worse. There is no sliding scale you move up on. Some people are better at some things some people are better at others. I think I can render pretty well, but my composition is stale. As I already said how you compare is a horrible thing to focus on. Focus instead on how you can get better.

It's great that everyone is giving pointers/suggestions... so, keep doing that and let the OP decide which will work best for her. But no more arguing over which way is right or wrong! You guys are tearing Jonny apart!! :'(

At 10/16/11 02:52 PM, Nae wrote: It's great that everyone is giving pointers/suggestions... so, keep doing that and let the OP decide which will work best for her. But no more arguing over which way is right or wrong! You guys are tearing Jonny apart!! :'(

JONNY....WHY?!

At 10/16/11 03:04 PM, sirhenrystudios wrote:

At 10/16/11 02:52 PM, Nae wrote: It's great that everyone is giving pointers/suggestions... so, keep doing that and let the OP decide which will work best for her. But no more arguing over which way is right or wrong! You guys are tearing Jonny apart!! :'(

JONNY....WHY?!

Don't you know? Jonny is our supreme overlord. He gets hurt every time his loyal subjects fight among themselves. So yeah.

NO U!

At 10/16/11 02:52 PM, Nae wrote: It's great that everyone is giving pointers/suggestions... so, keep doing that and let the OP decide which will work best for her. But no more arguing over which way is right or wrong! You guys are tearing Jonny apart!! :'(

Maybe it should move out of this thread. (into the reg lounge?) But this is a great discussion to have. I would hate to see it stop based solely on the worry that someone's feelings might get hurt.

At 10/16/11 10:17 AM, J-qb wrote:

At 10/16/11 10:04 AM, J-qb wrote: ...The same goes for the lion drawing, in attached pic I only blackened out the eye and added a highlight in it. That way the eye pops out from the rest of the drawing a bit more, giving the viewer a focal point and the drawing a bit more depth.

Googoogachoo I am the walrus!

I completely see what you mean there. I know I made the eye way too light, but there really wasn't anything I could do about it because it's scratchboard. I guess the only thing I can do is not do it again. It looked a lot worse until I went back and put some black into it with a pen.. Don't tell my teacher..

At 10/16/11 10:29 AM, Kinsei01 wrote: OP, I have a suggestion to really help and bring out that reaper. I know that the piece, and the reason for making it is past, but some advise never hurts, right?
Anyway. To help increase the dark feel of the piece and at the same time add a POP factor to it, you should have added some shadow around the edges of the skull. give it a real good feeling of sinking back in to that hood. You really want to slowly work it back in to the black so you see almost no edges. After that you could have added some real strong highlights to some of the most protruded features of the skull. Truly think of skull as a real 3D object and the lighting falling upon it. I see some highlighting and shadows, but I think you could really push it deeper and add a whole new level to this. Quick and dirty example made.
Also Your writing on it is a little unclear. Looking at the piece before reading the text that accompanied, I couldn't really make out what it said. You got to have some level of legibility to aid the reader along. I understand style and personal preference and such, but I think it would be much more impacting if you can understand it just a little.

Your other pieces are alright, The starting pic is kind of weak though. The lion would have made a much nicer start. You could use some anatomy basics and some structural basics, but your young and those things take time to learn.
SO!
Less talk and More Rock, Bring on the Wips and Art.

I think the reason I didn't make it look as sunk back into the hood is because I started on the skull and went back and made the hood. So that was probably my issues with that. I have a hard time understanding where you're coming from though, because you more a long the lines of computer graphics and I don't have that type of opportunity so I can't really make it and then make it perfect later.