Gop: Mormonism Is A Cult

[Love]

Buzzing in mainstream right now is the claim that Mormonism is not a Christian denomination, but a cult - according to a GOP evangelical leader, those who follow the Christian faith should not vote for Romney in the primary (if an equal candidate in competence [and Christian] is found). Naturally, the LDS church is insisting that it is not a cult at all because it believes in the same core ideas. People caught up in the middle of this (mostly of other religions / "athiesms") seem to believe this simply because it the LDS and Christian churches have some similar words in them - and those people try to argue about a subject they know little about. Plainly speaking, the Mormon response is utterly false. Here are some strict LDS philosophies that completely oppose Christianity - the beliefs of which would automatically invalidate a denomination with objective reasoning:

- - - - -

1. Book of Mormon:
The book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible.

2. The Devil:
The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus "in the morning of pre-existence," (Mormon Doctrine, p. 192.)

Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both.

3. God:
God used to be a man on another planet.
"The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as mans..." (D&C 130:22).

4. Becoming a god/goddess:
After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god.

"Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them," (DC 132:20).

5. Polytheism
There are many gods.
"And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light," (Book of Abraham 4:3).

6. Mother goddess
There is a mother god. (Articles of Faith)

God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children.

7. False Trinity
The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.
"That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage).

8. Heaven
There are three levels of heaven: telestial, terrestrial, and celestial.

9. Holy Ghost
The Holy Ghost is a male personage.

10. Jesus
"Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage).
"The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood - was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers," (Journal of Discourses).
"Elohim is literally the Father of the spirit of Jesus Christ and also of the body in which Jesus Christ performed His mission in the flesh ..." (First Presidency and Council of the Twelve, 1916, God the Father, compiled by Gordon Allred).

11. Joseph Smith
If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation [the context is the full gospel including exaltation to Godhood] outside the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

12. Pre-existence
We were first begotten as spirit children in heaven and then born naturally on earth.

The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus.

The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus "in the morning of pre-existence."

13. Salvation
"One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation." (Miracle of Forgiveness, by Spencer W. Kimball).

A plan of salvation was needed for the people of earth so Jesus offered a plan to the Father and Satan offered a plan to the father but Jesus' plan was accepted. In effect the Devil wanted to be the Savior of all Mankind and to "deny men their agency and to dethrone god."

Jesus' sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our sins, (murder and repeated adultery are exceptions).

Good works are necessary for salvation (Articles of Faith, p. 92).

There is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p. 188).

"The first effect [of the atonement] is to secure to all mankind alike, exemption from the penalty of the fall, thus providing a plan of General Salvation. The second effect is to open a way for Individual Salvation whereby mankind may secure remission of personal sins...As these sins are the result of individual acts it is just that forgiveness for them should be conditioned on individual compliance with prescribed requirements -- 'obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel,'" (Articles of Faith).

"This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts," (LDS Bible Dictionary, p. 697).

"We know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do," (2 Nephi 25:23).

- - - - -

Cult: a religion (also, its followers) regarded as unorthodox and/or spurious. - Webster

- - - - -

So yes, Mormonism and the LDS Church is a cult religion - an abomination of Christianity and its values. Although I disagree with the GOP's "civil war" over this, the ignorant mainstream interviewers/anchors - as well as the public in general - are trying to sugar coat Mormonism in order to entice the conservative Christian population into supporting Mitt Romney instead of Perry. (I laugh at both candidates).

Do you agree, though? Is the LDS a cult, or do you still think it is a Christian denomination? Should this even be a category of interest for promoting a hoped-President of the USA (which, incidentally, is supposed to be separated by church and state)?

Please do not turn this into a debate over the validity of religion in general; and, respect other's beliefs however misguided. Information > Opinion.

[SadisticMonkey]

Yeah, mormonism is a cult. Just like Islam.

[Camarohusky]

When it comes down to the GOP picking a person who can win versus a cook it definitely matters. If Mormon hating causes the GOP to put a loser cook up for the nomination, then, hell yes, Mormonism is a cult. Also, I heard that Joseph Smith peed on the American flag while making Mexican babies, who grew up to take all of the manufacturing jobs away from white people.

If this pull is false? Then No, it's not a cult, and ignore all of the above. If the GOP is willing to shoot itself inthe foot based on religious infighting, i will gladly play along.

[Iron-Hampster]

all religions started out as a cult. To the Romans, Jesus saying "there is one god" was the equivalent of saying "I am going to burn this American flag because it is the symbol of Satan." in the eyes of a Texan. So I can understand this person's confusion but opinions can be very easily ignored.

[djack]

I can see why someone would call Mormonism a cult. Joseph Smith was pretty obviously lying yet somehow mormons are still convinced to believe in his book by whatever jedi mind trick they use to convert people, and they live secluded in communities away from normal society so that they can do things the rest of America doesn't condone to the point that some of these things are illegal in multiple states(yes, polygamy really is illegal in some states). Of course Mormonism has also proven that it isn't a threat to anyone and there's no reason to think that Mormons are about to drink poisoned Kool-Aid en masse so there is no reason to attack it.

At 10/7/11 08:29 PM, Iron-Hampster wrote: all religions started out as a cult. To the Romans, Jesus saying "there is one god" was the equivalent of saying "I am going to burn this American flag because it is the symbol of Satan." in the eyes of a Texan. So I can understand this person's confusion but opinions can be very easily ignored.

1, The Jews said "there is one God" long before Christians came around and Romans didn't have a problem with it, Christians were just new and few in number so they made easy scapegoats. It was a completely different situation from your metaphor. 2, Mormonism is too old now to say that it's starting out.

[Warforger]

What? How is this an abomination? I see nothing repulsive about it and I don't see why anyone would be mad about it. What the Mormons believe makes as much sense as what the Methodists, or what Presbyterians, or what the Catholics believe. I mean if anything Mormons should be treated like blacks or Native Americans are in the sense that they should serve as a reminder of how intolerant society can be. Next thing you know they're going to start attacking Catholics as agents of Rome....AGAIN!

[aviewaskewed]

Yeah, but...

Sorry, they're Christians. They're just not "true" Christians for you...and we all know where that fallacious road goes.

[aviewaskewed]

djack, there's a big difference between Mormons who live on compounds and in a very fundamentalist mormon lifestyle vs. the LDS Church and it's teachings.

If you aren't aware of the differences (and clearly you don't seem to be) you probably shouldn't comment.

[djack]

At 10/7/11 09:43 PM, aviewaskewed wrote: djack, there's a big difference between Mormons who live on compounds and in a very fundamentalist mormon lifestyle vs. the LDS Church and it's teachings.

If you aren't aware of the differences (and clearly you don't seem to be) you probably shouldn't comment.

All of the groups that fit within the LDS Church (which isn't just Mormons although they are one of the largest and best known of the groups) follow Joseph Smith so that part of my post is still completely valid. And if being able to understand why someone would call Mormonism a cult means that I don't know the difference between that group and the larger denomination that they are a part of then clearly I don't understand parallelograms or triangles either because those are larger groups that encompass other things such as squares and equilateral triangles. I never claimed they weren't Christian, I simply said that some of their behavior fits the definition of a cult.

[Camarohusky]

At 10/7/11 11:20 PM, djack wrote: I never claimed they weren't Christian, I simply said that some of their behavior fits the definition of a cult.

Righto, then dj. Define cult.

[djack]

At 10/7/11 11:29 PM, Camarohusky wrote:

At 10/7/11 11:20 PM, djack wrote: I never claimed they weren't Christian, I simply said that some of their behavior fits the definition of a cult.

Righto, then dj. Define cult.

Most people think of cults as fitting this definition from the dictionary "a quasi-religious organization using devious psychological techniques to gain and control adherents". Devious psychological techniques generally include such things as separating your members from regular society, lying about religious experiences such as visions (Joseph Smith), and an individual who makes themselves the indisputable leader by being the only hope for salvation of their followers through what they claim to be the truth which only they have access to (Joseph Smith claimed he was the only one who could translate the golden bible but when asked to duplicate this he was unable to do so). Satisfied?

[adrshepard]

At 10/7/11 11:29 PM, Camarohusky wrote: Righto, then dj. Define cult.

Must you play the logical definition game? Do you not have a strong enough handle on normal society to recognize freaks when you see them? Do you need a dictionary or a philosophical discussion to say, for instance, that people who get sexually aroused upon seeing women in high-heeled shoes crushing puppies are deviants and weirdos? Or what about the people from Packlands (if you've ever read somethingawful.com), who pretend that they are wolves in human form? They're most definitely freaks, and I didn't need a dictionary to convince me of it.

Of course, there's no reason to hate them if they can still function in society on a normal level, saving their craziness for their own personal time when it doesn't affect anybody but themselves. But they are still freaks, just the same.

[Camarohusky]

At 10/7/11 11:53 PM, djack wrote: Devious psychological techniques generally include such things as separating your members from regular society,

Monks. Nuns.

lying about religious experiences such as visions (Joseph Smith),

Sermon on the mount, Moses and the Ten Comandments?

an individual who makes themselves the indisputable leader by being the only hope for salvation of their followers through what they claim to be the truth which only they have access to \

Jesus?

Satisfied?

Yeah in the fact that your so-called examples pretty much apply to Christianity itself as much as they apply to Mormonism.

At 10/7/11 11:57 PM, adrshepard wrote: Must you play the logical definition game?

Well, when I am trying to show that those who claim Mormonism is a cult are doing nothing but splitting hairs to fit their own views, asking their exact definition is quite important.

They're most definitely freaks, and I didn't need a dictionary to convince me of it.

This isn't even close to anyt of your examples. This is like saying that men who like women who are 2 inches above average are freaks. It's hair splitting at its finest.

But they are still freaks, just the same.

Now, I have had some NASTY encounters with the Mormon religion in my lifetime and my opinion of it is less than sparkling, but for one religion to call this a cult is just plain stupid. yeah, their beliefs are kinda weird, but so much weirder than regular Christianity as to lebal them freaks? HA! Don't waste my time.

[djack]

At 10/8/11 12:45 AM, Camarohusky wrote:

At 10/7/11 11:53 PM, djack wrote: Devious psychological techniques generally include such things as separating your members from regular society,

Monks. Nuns.

Monks and nuns are individuals that choose to devote their life to God and often integrate themselves within society as part of charities and private schools whereas Mormonism has entire communities of people who go about their daily lives but still remain cut off from the rest of the world.

lying about religious experiences such as visions (Joseph Smith),

Sermon on the mount, Moses and the Ten Comandments?

Are you really trying to compare events from thousands of years ago that billions of people have no reason to doubt to a man who, 180 years ago, couldn't even get the same translation two times in a row when claiming to have the help of God?

an individual who makes themselves the indisputable leader by being the only hope for salvation of their followers through what they claim to be the truth which only they have access to \

Jesus?

Did Jesus lead thousands of people to cut themselves off from the world on the basis that he had magic rocks that translated a new book of the bible but couldn't translate the same thing twice? No. He led 12 disciples who traveled with him throughout the Roman Empire while he spoke in parables to spread wisdom. He wasn't even the leader, the church of Christianity didn't even get truly started until after Christ's death.

Satisfied?

Yeah in the fact that your so-called examples pretty much apply to Christianity itself as much as they apply to Mormonism.

Only when you ignore the clear differences between the major figures of the Judeo-Christian religion and Joseph Smith. Hell, between the religious homogeny of Mormon communities and the extreme opposition most people have to polygamy it led to a conflict known as the Utah War. If the fact that they were willing to go to war with the U.S. government isn't an indication that they have at least some cult type behavior then what exactly do you consider to be a cult?

[psycho-squirrel]

Who ever said this is just trying to get attention.

Its the oldest trick in the book. Say something outrageous and start getting the media spotlight on yourself.

Why people fall for this over and over I have no clue, but I see it for what it really is, just another politician trying to make a name for himself.

[SolInvictus]

At 10/8/11 01:30 AM, djack wrote: If the fact that they were willing to go to war with the U.S. government isn't an indication that they have at least some cult type behavior then what exactly do you consider to be a cult?

a good Christian should put God and religion before the state, i don't see why war with a state over religious disagreements is out of the question for "true" Christians.

[lapis]

At 10/8/11 01:30 AM, djack wrote: Did Jesus lead thousands of people to cut themselves off from the world on the basis that he had magic rocks that translated a new book of the bible but couldn't translate the same thing twice? No. He led 12 disciples who traveled with him throughout the Roman Empire while he spoke in parables to spread wisdom. He wasn't even the leader, the church of Christianity didn't even get truly started until after Christ's death.

"And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first." (Matthew 19:29-30)

"Blessed are you when people hate you, when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man." (Luke 6:22)

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters-yes, even their own life-such a person cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26)

Telling people to isolate themselves from society is what a cult does, right?

[Love]

At 10/8/11 07:11 AM, lapis wrote:

"And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first." (Matthew 19:29-30)

Meaning, those who let go of the material, superfluous ambitions will be more successful in spreading the gospel.

"Blessed are you when people hate you, when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man." (Luke 6:22)

Meaning, the message of Jesus Christ is inherently offensive to the secular world - and most people will reject you because of it. It is not an instruction to be excluded.

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters-yes, even their own life-such a person cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26)

I am 100% positive you read this out of context. "Hate" here is not the same "hate" that we know. But, it is once again a calling to let go of material ambitions when following Christ.

Also, this was said in response to a man who did not want to become a disciple because he wanted to wait for his father to die and receive his inheritance. It should be obvious that "hate" means loving Jesus and the message over money.

Telling people to isolate themselves from society is what a cult does, right?

Is this your basis for labeling Christianity as a cult? Because this is bad deductive logic, and ignores the very definition of a cult.

[lapis]

At 10/8/11 10:12 AM, Hybridization wrote: It is not an instruction to be excluded.

Semantics. If the whole world had embraced the doctrines of the Branch Davidians then the people at Waco would also not have needed to isolate themselves. Jesus rejected everything from basic materialism to mainstream rabbinical Judaism. When you reject society, it will reject you, and if you are to see this rejection as a blessing then you are being told to isolate yourself, period.

Is this your basis for labeling Christianity as a cult?

I'm not saying that Chirtianity is a cult, I'm saying Christianity started as a cult.

Because this is bad deductive logic, and ignores the very definition of a cult.

Oh, what is the definition of a cult then? Wasn't this asked earlier? Let me try: it's a religious community centered around a central messianic leader of which the followers are instructed to reject mainstream society. Now argue why this isn't what Christianity (or Mormonism, Islam or even Judaism for that matter) started as.

[Warforger]

At 10/8/11 09:16 AM, Tokecat wrote: Mormonism is an officially racist organization. It specifically precludes black people from being Priests.

Quite disgusting, really, so fuck anyone who follows it seriously.

Oh that would be so bad if Christianity in general didn't bar women from being priests. So fuck that sexist religion (although reading the Bible, there's alot more truth to that statement then ya know).

[djack]

At 10/8/11 11:07 AM, lapis wrote:

At 10/8/11 10:12 AM, Hybridization wrote: It is not an instruction to be excluded.

Semantics. If the whole world had embraced the doctrines of the Branch Davidians then the people at Waco would also not have needed to isolate themselves. Jesus rejected everything from basic materialism to mainstream rabbinical Judaism. When you reject society, it will reject you, and if you are to see this rejection as a blessing then you are being told to isolate yourself, period.

It isn't an isolation it's a persecution. I would say that anyone, regardless of their specific beliefs, who has sufficient faith to withstand persecution and continue to believe what they do is blessed.

Is this your basis for labeling Christianity as a cult?

I'm not saying that Chirtianity is a cult, I'm saying Christianity started as a cult.

I don't agree. Having a different religion is not the same as rejecting society, especially in societies like that of Rome which had numerous religious sects.

Because this is bad deductive logic, and ignores the very definition of a cult.

Oh, what is the definition of a cult then? Wasn't this asked earlier? Let me try: it's a religious community centered around a central messianic leader of which the followers are instructed to reject mainstream society. Now argue why this isn't what Christianity (or Mormonism, Islam or even Judaism for that matter) started as.

Where did you get that definition? Furthermore, other than the passages you posted, which Hybridization showed was not a rejection of mainstream society, what evidence do you have that Christianity started as a cult? Finally, Mormonism is not something that is just starting so why do you continue with this fallacious argument that all religions start as cults when it doesn't apply to the current situation?

[Camarohusky]

Anyone ever notice that the sort of people that call Mormons freaks are the Christians who speak in tongues, slap demons with bibles, and do the stuff with the venomous snakes.

It's like a schizophrenic guy calling an autistic guy crazy...

[adrshepard]

At 10/8/11 12:45 AM, Camarohusky wrote: This isn't even close to anyt of your examples. This is like saying that men who like women who are 2 inches above average are freaks. It's hair splitting at its finest.

I agree. I only wanted to preempt the whole " 'cult' is a subjective term and therefore can never be meaningfully applied to anything" line of argument.
To devoted Christians, perhaps Mormonism is bizarre enough to be a cult, but I'd bet the average person doesn't really have a problem with it. Its foundation may be strange, but in terms of what Mormons do it's not very shocking.

[lapis]

At 10/8/11 12:54 PM, djack wrote: It isn't an isolation it's a persecution. I would say that anyone, regardless of their specific beliefs, who has sufficient faith to withstand persecution and continue to believe what they do is blessed.

How utterly subjective. Jesus separated his disciples from regular society and it's the fault of society, the early Mormons separated themselves from society and it's the fault of the Mormons. You know that the definition of a heretic is that it's someone who follows his religion is way different from yours? Your definition of a cult seems to be similar. Now if you could find something objective to differentiate between early Christians and early Mormons then we'd have something to go by. This "devious psychological techniques"stuff is nonsense, how is promising someone eternal life if he leaves his family and gives away all his possesions to isolate himself from society to become a disciple not a psychological trick? But hey, let's not call it psychological pressure but "faith" and then it becomes the highest virtue instead of something dirty.

I don't agree. Having a different religion is not the same as rejecting society, especially in societies like that of Rome which had numerous religious sects.

We aren't talking about "Rome", we're talking about Iudaea which just happened to have a Roman vassal as a ruler at the time. Its people all subscribed religiously to the orders of the rabbis (the Pharisees) and the Sadduceans --- outside that, there were the apocalyptic, messianic, ascetic movements like the Essenes and the Merkaba mystics. Today, these groups would be called "cults" by people like you.

Where did you get that definition?

Amalgamation to what I read here. but I changed it to be better suit your previous posts.

Furthermore, other than the passages you posted, which Hybridization showed was not a rejection of mainstream society

Hybridization didn't "show" anything, all I saw were word games intended to water down direct commands to isolate oneself from sinful society to more mainstream interpretations. Now I'd normally agree with that kind of mild interpretation; it's normal for a cult to mitigate its more radical positions as it gets mainstream acceptance. Still, that doesn't take anything away from the fact that at its inception, Christianity was a cult - but then there was Paul and the apologists, then the ecumenical councils and then the reformation among other formative events to shape Christianity into what it is today.

Finally, Mormonism is not something that is just starting

Never argued that. All I want is you to admit that by the same definitions that you use to say that Mormonism exhibits cult-like behaviour early Christianity was a cult as well.

[SolInvictus]

At 10/8/11 12:54 PM, djack wrote: I don't agree. Having a different religion is not the same as rejecting society, especially in societies like that of Rome which had numerous religious sects.

speaking of which; Roman, and other polytheistic religions, often had "cults" centered around a singular deity from their pantheons. the defintion of cult in this context is much different from the one being used to "define" cult in this thread.

omgz! more conundrum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SolInvictus]

At 10/8/11 02:04 PM, adrshepard wrote: I agree. I only wanted to preempt the whole " 'cult' is a subjective term and therefore can never be meaningfully applied to anything" line of argument.

oh hey, it was already said.

i'm so original i'm still first for posting it second.

[Love]

At 10/8/11 12:57 PM, Camarohusky wrote: Anyone ever notice that the sort of people that call Mormons freaks are the Christians who speak in tongues, slap demons with bibles, and do the stuff with the venomous snakes.

It's like a schizophrenic guy calling an autistic guy crazy...

Ignoring your pointless insults, wouldn't it make logical sense that the orthodoxy of Christianity would be offended my the Mormons who disown many of the foundational teachings of it? The "sort of people" who are most offended by the LDS are those whose beliefs have been twisted and labeled as their own. It is a huge insult to reject an opinion and speak on behalf of it. Moreover, it undermines the credibility of the belief (in this case, Christianity) because people who are on neither side will simply clump everybody together and point out an inconsistency - thereby "disproving" Christianity when, in reality, they are "disproving" the LDS.

It's similar to me saying, "On behalf of Camarohusky, I'd like to say: I have no idea what I am talking about and should probably stop posting ignorant comments so that I might, instead, engage in an intelligent conversation." Since this, apparently, isn't what you want to say, you become offended.

[Love]

At 10/8/11 02:15 PM, lapis wrote:

At 10/8/11 12:54 PM, djack wrote: It isn't an isolation it's a persecution. I would say that anyone, regardless of their specific beliefs, who has sufficient faith to withstand persecution and continue to believe what they do is blessed.

How utterly subjective. Jesus separated his disciples from regular society and it's the fault of society, the early Mormons separated themselves from society and it's the fault of the Mormons.

There's that bad logic again. The premise "If A = C and B = C, then A = B" is only absolute in mathematical algebra.

You know that the definition of a heretic is that it's someone who follows his religion is way different from yours? Your definition of a cult seems to be similar.

True, they are similar. But, the difference is, a cult manipulates the orthodoxy; heresy ignores the orthodoxy.

Now if you could find something objective to differentiate between early Christians and early Mormons then we'd have something to go by.

Objective Differences:

History, Founders, Time Period, Origins, Teachings

:::To name a few.

This "devious psychological techniques"stuff is nonsense, how is promising someone eternal life if he leaves his family and gives away all his possesions to isolate himself from society to become a disciple not a psychological trick?

You must not have read my responses to the Scripture passages you posted above. The part about eternal life is completely wrong. Christianity teaches that eternal life is achieved through acceptance of Jesus's divinity, His death, and resurrection. it has/had nothing to do with abandoning your family - ever.

Furthermore, other than the passages you posted, which Hybridization showed was not a rejection of mainstream society

Hybridization didn't "show" anything, all I saw were word games intended to water down direct commands to isolate oneself from sinful society to more mainstream interpretations.

Googling verses that make Christianity seem like a cult is a poor way of proving a point.

Either educate yourself on the meanings of the verses, or don't post them at all.

Finally, Mormonism is not something that is just starting

Never argued that. All I want is you to admit that by the same definitions that you use to say that Mormonism exhibits cult-like behaviour early Christianity was a cult as well.

Christians did not take Roman religion, change it, and claim to be proponents of it. The definitions that we are using to define a cult do not relate Mormonism to Christianity.

[lapis]

At 10/8/11 04:28 PM, Hybridization wrote: Christianity teaches that eternal life is achieved through acceptance of Jesus's divinity,

"Christianity" doesn't teach anything. What a modern-day born again Christian believes is radically, fundamentally, essentially different from what a 4th century Monophysite or a 3rd century libertine believed. The only things they have in common is symbolism and an ambiguous piece of text. Protestants and Catholics can't even agree on whether it's just faith or a combination of faith and works that brings people salvation. Agree with me on this: that Christianity has evolved drastically throughout the past two millennia. Only then we can move on to discussing why Christianity at its inception was like a cult, while modern Christianity isn't.

[Camarohusky]

At 10/8/11 04:07 PM, Hybridization wrote: wouldn't it make logical sense that the orthodoxy of Christianity would be offended my the Mormons who disown many of the foundational teachings of it?

That's a crock of shit. EVERY sect of Christianity has something that another sect believes misrepresents them in a fundamental way (otherwise they wouldn't have split), so is every other sect that isn't yours a cult? I mean has the rank and file of Christianity fallen so low as to take a step down from "you're worshipping the wrong God" to "you're worhsipping the right God, but because your way of worshipping said God is wrong, you are a cult."

The "sort of people" who are most offended by the LDS are those whose beliefs have been twisted and labeled as their own.

Would you claim the Adventists as cultish with their twisted belief that it was Saturday not Sunday that's a Holy Day? Or the Catholics that you cannot speak to God directly?

It is a huge insult to reject an opinion and speak on behalf of it. Moreover, it undermines the credibility of the belief (in this case, Christianity) because people who are on neither side will simply clump everybody together and point out an inconsistency - thereby "disproving" Christianity when, in reality, they are "disproving" the LDS.

I have never seen anybody do this. Where do people say "Christianity is at fault, because Mormons are"?

It's similar to me saying, "On behalf of Camarohusky, I'd like to say: I have no idea what I am talking about and should probably stop posting ignorant comments so that I might, instead, engage in an intelligent conversation." Since this, apparently, isn't what you want to say, you become offended.

Are you trying to assert no true Scotsman here?