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Richard
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Response to Occupy wall street media black out 2011-12-05 11:52:02 Reply

At 12/5/11 11:47 AM, akmeteor wrote:
At 12/5/11 11:44 AM, DickBuns wrote:
Not trying to get you mad. Just trying to convince you to actually address the discussion, and not skirt around it with irrelevant drivel.

So again. Do you have proof that the banks paid back most of their bailouts? And what about the issues that the comic brings up? Do you have some sort of retort for that? Or are you simply going to dismiss it because of some sort of irrelevant "It's overused" dodge?
How about the fact that the post I made was to say that while I think it is extremely biased, it does have meaning.

The only part that you actually posted was the bit about it being biased. You did not address anything else regarding the comic. I would apologize for not being psychic and deriving whatever sort of vague meaning that you have behind "it does have meaning" but no. There's no reason to. I shouldn't be expected to be psychic. If you think I have a problem with my reading comprehension because of my lack of ESP, well, I suggest you learn what reading comprehension actually means.

So, in a nutshell, you have no retort to that comic other than the fact that it is biased. So the point made by the comic stands until refuted by someone who will put forth the effort to do so.

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Response to Occupy wall street media black out 2011-12-05 11:58:24 Reply

At 12/5/11 11:52 AM, DickBuns wrote:
So, in a nutshell, you have no retort to that comic other than the fact that it is biased. So the point made by the comic stands until refuted by someone who will put forth the effort to do so.

You only read the first sentence then. I stated that I thought that the Bailouts were socialist, then said that OWS is even more so.

Which does actually pertain to the comic stating "Get a job I need Bailout money!" under Capitalist Socialist.


Well.

Shit.

Richard
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Response to Occupy wall street media black out 2011-12-05 12:13:33 Reply

At 12/5/11 11:58 AM, akmeteor wrote:
You only read the first sentence then. I stated that I thought that the Bailouts were socialist, then said that OWS is even more so.

Which does actually pertain to the comic stating "Get a job I need Bailout money!" under Capitalist Socialist.

That doesn't really pertain to the comic as the comic does not mention OWS at all.

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Response to Occupy wall street media black out 2011-12-05 12:21:16 Reply

At 12/5/11 12:13 PM, DickBuns wrote:
That doesn't really pertain to the comic as the comic does not mention OWS at all.

Because it is going to skip over the fact that OWS is the worse of the two Capitalism/Socialist ideas, or it was made before OWS was even around. I added the fact in, that if it were made before OWS, it would then be relevant to OWS.

Here's what you're saying.

"This textbook from 1930 doesn't mention the Holocaust! Therefore it isn't relevant to history, because this book was written before it."

OR

"This textbook from Japan doesn't mention World War II! That must mean Japan wasn't involved in a bad light!"


Well.

Shit.

VenomKing666
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Response to Occupy wall street media black out 2011-12-06 12:43:49 Reply

At 12/4/11 09:26 PM, Korriken wrote: and still biased.

Please indicate how so.

Obviously they change jargon based on their perception of current public opinion.

Public opinion which was changed by OWS.

It is indeed nothing, its as much of nothing as calling Welfare "assisted living" same thing, just another word for it.

There is a political reason why these people do it, and for OWS to force the reps to change theirs when you see how they treated them before, it's a huge step and you can downplay it as much as you want it does not change this fact.

That's perception for ya, great way to cloud judgement. your argument falls as flat as saying "Well, Glenn Beck may be opinionated, but he's not biased, he DOES speak of real new articles afterall."
Obviously you wouldn't agree with that statement because Glenn Beck isn't opinionated in the way you WANT him to be.

See, I knew you would ay that. And no, there is a difference with Beck and Ugyur, and it's not only their position, Fox has a huge history of spinning stories in their favor see this guy's channel. He's got over 100 examples of fox news bias.

Now I know Cenk exagerates sometimes he's a character, however if don,t think you will ever find him maliciously or ideologically hiding facts or reporting anything incorrectly, and if you somehow do I would love to see you post it here.

I argue in fine faith. I just see things for what they are. I'm not underplaying it, you're overplaying it. It's easy to grab a news article like that and take off running with it to see how far you can blow it out of proportion. Here's an example.. not a great example, but it still makes the point!

Bob the Builder turns down a contract to build a black guy's house, explaining he doesn't have the time or manpower to build the house in the time the man wants his house built in.

Tom: Bob the Builder is obviously racist for not wanting to build a house for a BLACK MAN! I can't believe racists like this still exist in the world! They should take his contractor's license away from him for being a bigoted idiot!

Reality: Bob the Builder has too much work on his hands as is and doesn't have the manpower to build another house in the amount of time the man wants it built. simple.

I don't think this happens, like ever. Or if somebody in that case would point to rascism he would not be taken seriously... and I am the one overplaying it now?

Obama makes a reference to there being 52 states.
Left: he misspoke, he's tired.
right: he's a moron! does he know even know how many states are in our nation? this man doesn't deserve to be our president!

Palin makes a reference to skinning a moose
Left: she's a MORON for talking about skinning a moose, he's not sophisticated enough to be vice president!
Right: so she skinned a moose, big deal.

If you want to look at an incompetent republican and a moron just look at Herman Cain. Now of course people tend to be biased for the party they like the most. I don't like the dems either, and certainly not obama. And I always try to not be biased.

Also I think we are straying away from the main subject of this thread.

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Response to Occupy wall street media black out 2011-12-06 16:35:43 Reply

At 12/6/11 12:43 PM, VenomKing666 wrote:
At 12/4/11 09:26 PM, Korriken wrote: and still biased.
Please indicate how so.

Obviously they change jargon based on their perception of current public opinion.
Public opinion which was changed by OWS.

It is indeed nothing, its as much of nothing as calling Welfare "assisted living" same thing, just another word for it.
There is a political reason why these people do it, and for OWS to force the reps to change theirs when you see how they treated them before, it's a huge step and you can downplay it as much as you want it does not change this fact.
See, I knew you would ay that. And no, there is a difference with Beck and Ugyur, and it's not only their position, Fox has a huge history of spinning stories in their favor see this guy's channel. He's got over 100 examples of fox news bias.

There is little difference. both have an agenda and both spin things to help their agenda. you're just too blind to see it.


Now I know Cenk exagerates sometimes he's a character, however if don,t think you will ever find him maliciously or ideologically hiding facts or reporting anything incorrectly, and if you somehow do I would love to see you post it here.

Challenge accepted.
I choose the "other big movement" the tea party.

Let's see... um nope, I can't find a single positive video on the tea party by them. according to your precious "non biased" cenk, the tea party is full of racists who want nothing more than to put Obama out of office and enslave the black people.

I don't think this happens, like ever. Or if somebody in that case would point to rascism he would not be taken seriously... and I am the one overplaying it now?

*facepalm* the point is its a matter of perception. anything can be spun, anything can be twisted to suit your needs/desires. the young turks does just that. you just refuse to see it for what it is. you ever hear anything good about the republicans? no. you ever see em slamming obama? minor, but nothing major. point is he's a leftist hack that the zombies on the left listen to, much like Glenn Beck is a right wing hack that the zombies on the right listen to.

If you want to look at an incompetent republican and a moron just look at Herman Cain. Now of course people tend to be biased for the party they like the most. I don't like the dems either, and certainly not obama. And I always try to not be biased.

nice. sidestep the point and try to stick it to someone you don't like. I think I'm done here. I made my point, make what you will of it.


I'm not crazy, everyone else is.

VenomKing666
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Response to Occupy wall street media black out 2011-12-10 01:42:46 Reply

At 12/6/11 04:35 PM, Korriken wrote:
There is little difference. both have an agenda and both spin things to help their agenda. you're just too blind to see it.

Once again you just say stuff out of your ass with no evidence to back it up, like I said, find a fucking tyt article that reported facts wrong or tried to hide facts.

Let's see... um nope, I can't find a single positive video on the tea party by them. according to your precious "non biased" cenk, the tea party is full of racists who want nothing more than to put Obama out of office and enslave the black people.

Exept where he says they have been fighting for similar things than OWS even tough they do not go after corporations themselves.

*facepalm* the point is its a matter of perception. anything can be spun, anything can be twisted to suit your needs/desires. the young turks does just that. you just refuse to see it for what it is. you ever hear anything good about the republicans? no. you ever see em slamming obama? minor, but nothing major. point is he's a leftist hack that the zombies on the left listen to, much like Glenn Beck is a right wing hack that the zombies on the right listen to.

Exept not, and Cenk blames both the left AND the right AND Obama when they do stuff that are wrong and will say when both do good things, I have heard examples of all of these. Like i said, he IS giving his opinion but he is not biased, not in the sense that he will hide facts or lie to get his agenda trough, like some other fox news people.

If you want to look at an incompetent republican and a moron just look at Herman Cain. Now of course people tend to be biased for the party they like the most. I don't like the dems either, and certainly not obama. And I always try to not be biased.
nice. sidestep the point and try to stick it to someone you don't like. I think I'm done here. I made my point, make what you will of it.

What point was there that I hadn't already adressed before? You gave an overexagerrated example of bias. I am not saying bias doesn't exist here.

Also you're done? Great, not like anything could have made you change your mind anyways.

Iron-Hampster
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Response to Occupy wall street media black out 2011-12-10 02:05:57 Reply

Banks make money by borrowing and spending other peoples money. This money is invested into the stock market, wich can result in gain or loss.

The banks lost, but they didn't lose their own money, they lost their customer's money. In response, they appealed to the government to bail them out, in order to save us from losing our money. The government responded by giving the banks more of our money, in fact they gave enough of it so that the banks could get a nice kick ass bonus for all of their executives.

The banks payed that money back over time, with more of our money (remember how they make their money?), and the government was happy to take that money and give it back to the population, by building more bombs and sending them over seas to blow up brown people and secure the oil fields for the oil companies, who still to this day charge us an arm and a leg plus a blowjob as a tip for their so called "still plentiful" goods.

Did I meantion that banks charge you to use your money?


ya hear about the guy who put his condom on backwards? He went.

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Camarohusky
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Response to Occupy wall street media black out 2011-12-10 13:02:45 Reply

At 12/10/11 01:42 AM, VenomKing666 wrote: Once again you just say stuff out of your ass with no evidence to back it up, like I said, find a fucking tyt article that reported facts wrong or tried to hide facts.

VK, don't get sucked into the lore and sexiness of 'facts'. The mere existence of a fact doesn't mean anything. Facts are merely facts. They do nothing but indiciate a single bland piece of information. It's the story that counts. Facts are fungible.

Korriken is not saying the facts of the Young Turks are wrong. he's saying their story is biased and one sided. His point that TYT has been salivating over OWS like Zoidberg when someone mentions food. They haven't reported much, if at all, on a similar bottom up grass roots (though at least partially astroturfed) Tea party movement.

So when it comes down to it, regardless of whether the facts that TYT puts forth are 100% true or not, they are extremely biased. They choose the facts they out forward and the story they craft is done so through the lenses of their beliefs, and they make little effort to hide that fact.

In conclusion, fatcs aren't gospel. They are merely tools through which people craft stories.

Korriken
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Response to Occupy wall street media black out 2011-12-10 14:43:07 Reply

At 12/10/11 01:42 AM, VenomKing666 wrote:
Once again you just say stuff out of your ass with no evidence to back it up, like I said, find a fucking tyt article that reported facts wrong or tried to hide facts.

show me a few good articles that Cenk did about the tea party. finding the negative ones is EASY, he has a huge pile of them. I rest my case.

Exept where he says they have been fighting for similar things than OWS even tough they do not go after corporations themselves

Tea party wants fewer taxes and more economical freedom... well most of em anyway, some are nuttier than others.

OWS wants more regulation and to end corporate bailouts.. well, most of em anyway, some are nuttier than others.

Exept not...

Bias doesn't mean lying. Bias is spinning positive stories for those you like into something major, while downplaying the negative stories about them. the opposite is also true, playing up the negative aspects of your opponents and downplaying their positives. THAT is bias.

Also you're done? Great, not like anything could have made you change your mind anyways.

not when I know I'm right. Also, Camarohusky hit the nail on the head.


I'm not crazy, everyone else is.

Camarohusky
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Response to Occupy wall street media black out 2011-12-10 15:51:58 Reply

At 12/10/11 02:43 PM, Korriken wrote: Tea party wants fewer taxes and more economical freedom... well most of em anyway, some are nuttier than others.

OWS wants more regulation and to end corporate bailouts.. well, most of em anyway, some are nuttier than others.

You at least have to admit that they both want to end corporate welfare (i.e. the bailouts and TARP and stuff).

Their methods for doing this, however, diverge significantly.

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Response to Occupy wall street media black out 2011-12-10 15:57:11 Reply

At 12/10/11 01:02 PM, Camarohusky wrote:
VK, don't get sucked into the lore and sexiness of 'facts'. The mere existence of a fact doesn't mean anything. Facts are merely facts. They do nothing but indiciate a single bland piece of information. It's the story that counts. Facts are fungible.
Korriken is not saying the facts of the Young Turks are wrong. he's saying their story is biased and one sided. His point that TYT has been salivating over OWS like Zoidberg when someone mentions food. They haven't reported much, if at all, on a similar bottom up grass roots (though at least partially astroturfed) Tea party movement.

I guess I see your point here, and I would agree about that, thanks for explaining that.

So when it comes down to it, regardless of whether the facts that TYT puts forth are 100% true or not, they are extremely biased. They choose the facts they out forward and the story they craft is done so through the lenses of their beliefs, and they make little effort to hide that fact.

By that definition everyone is biased (And everybody is). I was speaking in terms of massive bias or outright lying, or hiding critical information from the viewer, which unlike fox news I am not aware of the people from TYT doing.

In conclusion, fatcs aren't gospel. They are merely tools through which people craft stories.

A fact, evidence is by definition true, if it is altered then it becomes untrue, and therefore is not a fact anymore.

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Response to Occupy wall street media black out 2011-12-10 15:59:17 Reply

At 12/10/11 03:51 PM, Camarohusky wrote:
At 12/10/11 02:43 PM, Korriken wrote: Tea party wants fewer taxes and more economical freedom... well most of em anyway, some are nuttier than others.

OWS wants more regulation and to end corporate bailouts.. well, most of em anyway, some are nuttier than others.
You at least have to admit that they both want to end corporate welfare (i.e. the bailouts and TARP and stuff).

Their methods for doing this, however, diverge significantly.

I believe they could be strong allies, the thing is that corporations that tend to be greedy don't want regulations so it's easier to not play by the rules. So I would agree some regulation is definitely important, especially health regulations.

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Response to Occupy wall street media black out 2011-12-10 16:03:43 Reply

At 12/10/11 02:43 PM, Korriken wrote:
show me a few good articles that Cenk did about the tea party. finding the negative ones is EASY, he has a huge pile of them. I rest my case.
Tea party wants fewer taxes and more economical freedom... well most of em anyway, some are nuttier than others.

Fewer taxes for who? As for less government interventions... Are you sure it's a good thingfor that to happen in america? Especially regarding big companies? I do not mean to trash the tea party, I believe they want what is best for their country as much as OWS, just wonderin'. Or maybe you do not have a personal opinion on that.

OWS wants more regulation and to end corporate bailouts.. well, most of em anyway, some are nuttier than others.

That's pretty much it, yep.

Bias doesn't mean lying. Bias is spinning positive stories for those you like into something major, while downplaying the negative stories about them. the opposite is also true, playing up the negative aspects of your opponents and downplaying their positives. THAT is bias.

Oh yeah, that's true.

not when I know I'm right. Also, Camarohusky hit the nail on the head.

He sort of did.

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Response to Occupy wall street media black out 2011-12-10 16:13:25 Reply

At 12/10/11 03:57 PM, VenomKing666 wrote: By that definition everyone is biased (And everybody is). I was speaking in terms of massive bias or outright lying, or hiding critical information from the viewer, which unlike fox news I am not aware of the people from TYT doing.

TYT is pretty biased. They are not biased to the point of altering the truth, however if you were to make a "news of 2011" based solely on TYT reports you would have a very liberal and very small picture of world news. This small picture isn't due to lack of resources, but due to selective reporting.

A fact, evidence is by definition true, if it is altered then it becomes untrue, and therefore is not a fact anymore.

But one fact alone is almost meaningless. Take these three facts.

A man has a gun.
A person died.
The man has money in his wallet.

Each of these facts mean very little. Put them together to make a story and you have, a man with a gun, killed another person and took his money. Or is it, a person left the bank and killed someone trying to mug him? Or is it a police officer who shot a sucpect? Or is it a tragic heart attack, and some random guy has a gun?

This is pretty extreme, but this is how facts work. One fact alone is meaningless. It does not get meaning until someone creates a story with it and gives it meaning. After that even the same exact set of facts in the same sequence can have different meanings. The Libyan people were 'rebels' in the Government's eyes, but they were 'freedom fighters' in our eyes. Two VERY different stories based off the exact same facts.

camobch0
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Response to Occupy wall street media black out 2011-12-10 19:15:59 Reply

Just went to the first Occupy meeting for my small city, and we're already planning future meetings and community action projects including getting started on a soup kitchen that'll run 3 days a week with no limits, and a group of knitters making clothes for local homeless. It actually felt like legitimate democracy, every person had a say on every decision. We had an open mic with a voted on time limit so everyone could say their piece at one point. This movement isn't just about protesting, it is about educating and helping EVERYONE.


A vagina is really just a hat for a penis.

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Response to Occupy wall street media black out 2011-12-10 19:24:35 Reply

At 12/10/11 07:15 PM, camobch0 wrote: This movement isn't just about protesting, it is about educating and helping EVERYONE.

So in other words it's a bunch of hippie social themes rolled under the vague confines of anti-corporate angst?

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Response to Occupy wall street media black out 2011-12-10 20:44:59 Reply

At 12/10/11 07:24 PM, Camarohusky wrote:
So in other words it's a bunch of hippie social themes rolled under the vague confines of anti-corporate angst?

So in other words you're a conservative shut-in who has to call anyone who likes to help other human beings a hippie?


A vagina is really just a hat for a penis.

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Response to Occupy wall street media black out 2011-12-11 07:51:14 Reply

At 12/10/11 08:44 PM, camobch0 wrote:
At 12/10/11 07:24 PM, Camarohusky wrote:
So in other words it's a bunch of hippie social themes rolled under the vague confines of anti-corporate angst?
So in other words you're a conservative shut-in who has to call anyone who likes to help other human beings a hippie?

Thank you very fucking much for that, I almost ate my keyboard out of anger when I read his comment.

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Response to Occupy wall street media black out 2011-12-11 07:55:53 Reply

At 12/10/11 04:13 PM, Camarohusky wrote: TYT is pretty biased. They are not biased to the point of altering the truth, however if you were to make a "news of 2011" based solely on TYT reports you would have a very liberal and very small picture of world news. This small picture isn't due to lack of resources, but due to selective reporting.

They report what most other news outlets tend to ignore, sometimes critically important information. It's not about ONLY watching TYT but all kinds of media outlets, TYT being an important piec eof the puzzle.

But one fact alone is almost meaningless. Take these three facts.

A man has a gun.
A person died.
The man has money in his wallet.

Each of these facts mean very little. Put them together to make a story and you have, a man with a gun, killed another person and took his money. Or is it, a person left the bank and killed someone trying to mug him? Or is it a police officer who shot a sucpect? Or is it a tragic heart attack, and some random guy has a gun?

We don,t know in that casde and this requires more investigation (aka more fact gathering)

This is pretty extreme, but this is how facts work. One fact alone is meaningless.

No, I am sorry but you are an idiot. I don't like to call names but when people say something that stupid I just have to.

Listen, a fact is not meaningless, a fact means what it means, that's it.

It does not get meaning until someone creates a story with it and gives it meaning. After that even the same exact set of facts in the same sequence can have different meanings. The Libyan people were 'rebels' in the Government's eyes, but they were 'freedom fighters' in our eyes. Two VERY different stories based off the exact same facts.

Exept these are two BIASED points of view of the same events, the truth still is that one of these points of view (or both) may be wrong. And therefore not facts. It's not because we don't know all the information that facts are suddently meaningless.

I can't believe I have to explain this.

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Response to Occupy wall street media black out 2011-12-11 12:30:18 Reply

At 12/11/11 07:55 AM, VenomKing666 wrote: No, I am sorry but you are an idiot. I don't like to call names but when people say something that stupid I just have to.

A fact is meaningless. One fact is narrow and only tells one piece of information. Without a story or context a fact can be twisted to mean anything and therefore has no real meaning.

Listen, a fact is not meaningless, a fact means what it means, that's it.

And this is why you'll be mislead by the news becuase you are bound to be follow the story because you're too distracted by sparkly facts.


Exept these are two BIASED points of view of the same events, the truth still is that one of these points of view (or both) may be wrong. And therefore not facts. It's not because we don't know all the information that facts are suddently meaningless.

No shit, there genious. The STORIES aren't facts. A ball is not a triangle and a car is not a filet mingon. However, bot the stories I presented were created off of the same facts, and guess what? These stories are extrmely divergent! TYT can look at the same facts as me, Fox, CNN, and every otehr American and there story is gonig to be anti-corporate. It always will be. That's the story they choose to tell with the facts at hand.

My story of OWS is shaped through my experience with these sort of people in numerous stages of my life. I take the same facts and see them and project them through my lens. What TYT sees as heroic Egypt-style protestors, I see as stinky bored children yearning for a cause. It's not like we're lookin at different things.

I can't believe I have to explain this.

Don't. You don't understand what you're trying to explain.

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Response to Occupy wall street media black out 2011-12-11 13:24:34 Reply

you are supposed to call them a saint when they feed the poor, and a communist when they ask why the poor are starving, not the other way around.


ya hear about the guy who put his condom on backwards? He went.

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Response to Occupy wall street media black out 2011-12-11 13:42:58 Reply

At 12/11/11 01:24 PM, Iron-Hampster wrote: you are supposed to call them a saint when they feed the poor, and a communist when they ask why the poor are starving, not the other way around.

Let's not be disingenuous here. It's great and all some group is now helping to feed and clothe the poor, but that is not inherently due to this so called movement. I'm a little appalled by this actually because if these people had the capability to do these things.. then why weren't they doing it to begin with? They're just using the Occupy movement as a title to get things done because it's topical.

I don't feel like arguing that this is being done without government intervention but ffffffffffffffffffffff.


Wut?

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Response to Occupy wall street media black out 2011-12-11 15:21:11 Reply

At 12/11/11 01:42 PM, SuperDeagle wrote:

I'm a little appalled by this actually because if these people had the capability to do these things.. then why weren't they doing it to begin with? They're just using the Occupy movement as a title to get things done because it's topical.

last time I checked, Charity was optional. you see various corporations spending more on advertising for their little charity promotions than they actually donate to that said charity, yet its still just the greatest damn thing ever.


ya hear about the guy who put his condom on backwards? He went.

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Response to Occupy wall street media black out 2011-12-11 15:26:13 Reply

At 12/11/11 03:21 PM, Iron-Hampster wrote:
At 12/11/11 01:42 PM, SuperDeagle wrote:
I'm a little appalled by this actually because if these people had the capability to do these things.. then why weren't they doing it to begin with? They're just using the Occupy movement as a title to get things done because it's topical.

last time I checked, Charity was optional. you see various corporations spending more on advertising for their little charity promotions than they actually donate to that said charity, yet its still just the greatest damn thing ever.

Irrelevant to the point I was trying to make. Actually, that has nothing to do with anything in this thread at all.


Wut?

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Response to Occupy wall street media black out 2011-12-11 19:24:41 Reply

At 12/11/11 12:30 PM, Camarohusky wrote: A fact is meaningless. One fact is narrow and only tells one piece of information. Without a story or context a fact can be twisted to mean anything and therefore has no real meaning.

What the hell are you even talking about?

An example of a possible fact would be: A man died at 7:30 this morning.

Then a story would be me telling how it happenned.

How can you distort the original fact? You cannot. Sure you could lie about it but then it's not a fucking fact anymore.

And this is why you'll be mislead by the news becuase you are bound to be follow the story because you're too distracted by sparkly facts.

Wow, stop talking. "WHO CARES ABOUT EVIDENCE IT'S MEANINGLESS"

You are making a fool of yourself.

No shit, there genious. The STORIES aren't facts. A ball is not a triangle and a car is not a filet mingon. However, bot the stories I presented were created off of the same facts, and guess what? These stories are extrmely divergent!

And one of the stories you made might be itself a fact while the other one isnt.

TYT can look at the same facts as me, Fox, CNN, and every otehr American and there story is gonig to be anti-corporate. It always will be. That's the story they choose to tell with the facts at hand.

TYT is not anti-corporate, you are an idiot.

My story of OWS is shaped through my experience with these sort of people in numerous stages of my life. I take the same facts and see them and project them through my lens. What TYT sees as heroic Egypt-style protestors, I see as stinky bored children yearning for a cause. It's not like we're lookin at different things.

Yet you cannot be both right, either you or TYT is wrong. Guess who it is.

Don't. You don't understand what you're trying to explain.

You have no right to say what anybody understands in this thread with the kind of posts you make.

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Response to Occupy wall street media black out 2011-12-11 23:22:36 Reply

At 12/11/11 07:24 PM, VenomKing666 wrote:
What the hell are you even talking about?

An example of a possible fact would be: A man died at 7:30 this morning.

Then a story would be me telling how it happenned.

How can you distort the original fact? You cannot. Sure you could lie about it but then it's not a fucking fact anymore.

I think this sums it up nicely. watch.
A man died at 7:30 this morning. his body has one hole in the center of his chest, where he bled out. A man was later found with a 9mm pistol in his coat and was arrested.

obviously the man is guilty, right?

And this is why you'll be mislead by the news becuase you are bound to be follow the story because you're too distracted by sparkly facts.
Wow, stop talking. "WHO CARES ABOUT EVIDENCE IT'S MEANINGLESS"

You are making a fool of yourself.

Camaro is right actually. What's a fact? something you believe to be true. FACT: Americans landed on the moon... or did they? they teach it as a fact in school and want you to believe it without question. but did we REALLY land on the moon? to some the "fact" is that it staged and we didn't really go to the moon.

To some its a "fact" that JFK was killed by the mafia, to some the "fact" is that JFK was killed by the CIA.

Everything in life is all about perception rather than reality. to a 5 year old $10 is a LOT of money. to a millionaire $10 is less than pocket change. Hell I can't even watch the news without the old woman im renting a room from going on a rant about how "bush destroyed the economy and the republicans are keeping the economy down in order to make obama look bad." is it fact? to her it is, to me it isn't.

And one of the stories you made might be itself a fact while the other one isnt.

and how do you know which is fact and which is crap? if you believe everything someone tells you, then you're the fool. how do you know TYT is always right? if you answer is "because its TYT!" then you need to step back and give the answer some thought.

TYT is not anti-corporate, you are an idiot.

not necessarily, but they do have an agenda and lead people on with selective coverage of the world's events.

Yet you cannot be both right, either you or TYT is wrong. Guess who it is.

I'd wager on Camarohusky, myself. Blind faith in anything only leads to misguidance.


I'm not crazy, everyone else is.

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Response to Occupy wall street media black out 2011-12-12 16:19:49 Reply

At 12/11/11 07:24 PM, VenomKing666 wrote: What the hell are you even talking about?

Let's just boil this down. Liste n to TYT, FOX News, CNN, and CBS. Take down the facts they use. Chances are the facts they use in common will be the same. I can gurantee you that 90%+ of the facts they use will be the same. However, based on that remaining 10%, the context, the order, and the manner in which they all resent it, you'll get 4 stories, some more different than the others. I mean the mere eixtsence of Sean Hannity yelling angrily a set if facts and Brian Schieffer droning on about the same facts in the same exact sentences as Hannity, and you'll get a different story.

Facts are maleable. You can't change the fact of the fact, but you can minimize, couch, hide, exaggerate, highlight, ignore, or blow that fact out of proportion. Hell, you can even add lies to a fact to make it seem 100% different than it truly is. Or you can cop off a seemingly mnor part of that fact (like a quote) to completely change the meaning of that fact. All I am saying is that you have got to think beyond the mere facts and words thrown at you and dig down to the why. Ask yourself, "When TYT, or FOX, or NGBBSers say facts and storys, why are they telling this story?" The more biased and selective a source is the more likely the why is more important than the what.

Now, I know how you're looknig at this. You've come across TYT and they seems to say everything you want to say and they say it the way you want to say it. When I was younger I latched on things the same way. Now TYT wasn't around back then, but you can bet your bum that if I knew about TYT when I was 16-19 I would've latched upon them like a vice grip. Now, that might have lasted a few years, but when you have things that fit your bias, yoiu love it until that onbe time when they no longer fit your bias. Once you disagree with them you realize that the entire time this is how they've treated everything, and it will quickly turn really really sour. Trust me.

Not everything you see or hear is exactly what it appears to be.

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Response to Occupy wall street media black out 2011-12-13 05:14:46 Reply

At 12/11/11 11:22 PM, Korriken wrote: I think this sums it up nicely. watch.
A man died at 7:30 this morning. his body has one hole in the center of his chest, where he bled out. A man was later found with a 9mm pistol in his coat and was arrested.

obviously the man is guilty, right?

Obviously not necessairly. However it does not affect my point even in the slightest.

Camaro is right actually. What's a fact? something you believe to be true.

That is the stupidest thing I heard you say. No, a fact is something that IS true, and beliefs do not affect them in any way.

FACT: Americans landed on the moon... or did they? they teach it as a fact in school and want you to believe it without question. but did we REALLY land on the moon?

*sigh* yes we did. I

to some the "fact" is that it staged and we didn't really go to the moon.

That's what they believe to be a fact, but guess what, they're fucking wrong.

To some its a "fact" that JFK was killed by the mafia, to some the "fact" is that JFK was killed by the CIA.

See my previous point. I want to also add that not knowing which is fact or not about an issue does not make ALL the facts any more valid, one of these premises is true, everything else isnt.

Everything in life is all about perception rather than reality.

Okay, THIS is the stupidest thing I heard anyone say.

Let's take this fact: Normal grass, as seen by a healthy human eye will come out as green colored.

Let's say I use a bunch of mind tricks to make you strongly believe without a doubt it's purple, guess what, it's still going to be fucking green.

Belief or perception have NO effect on evidence and facts. You suggesting otherwise really make me question the purpose of arguing with you since you do not seem to care about what is true or not.

to a 5 year old $10 is a LOT of money. to a millionaire $10 is less than pocket change.

That might be true, however it does not affect the evidence that a 10$ bill is worth 10$.

Hell I can't even watch the news without the old woman im renting a room from going on a rant about how "bush destroyed the economy and the republicans are keeping the economy down in order to make obama look bad." is it fact? to her it is, to me it isn't.

Again, facts are facts, they are universal, some people might believe in erroneous things, but that makes them fucking wrong. Also don't get me started with the Bush tax cuts.

and how do you know which is fact and which is crap? if you believe everything someone tells you, then you're the fool. how do you know TYT is always right? if you answer is "because its TYT!" then you need to step back and give the answer some thought.

If you really believe anyone reasons like this it really shows with how much contempt you view other human beings.

TYT is not anti-corporate, you are an idiot.
not necessarily, but they do have an agenda and lead people on with selective coverage of the world's events.

TYT just released a video where they defend bachmann on an issue.

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Response to Occupy wall street media black out 2011-12-13 05:31:06 Reply

At 12/12/11 04:19 PM, Camarohusky wrote: first part

See, but if you change a fact it's not one anymore. If you lie about it it becomes (conveniently enough) a fucking lie. I know how differently you can treat an information to make it look different or to change public perception. I am studying in communications. It does NOT change the base facts of what happenned. Fox news' bias is outright lying and bullshit, other news media not so much. And sure they might ommit some stuff for various reasons but that's your job to check the information.

I was defending merely defending comparing tyt to fox news here, as I have not seen them lie about an issue in the way fox did and at least TYT have the honesty to show they have an opinion unlike the "straight" fox news anchors and the "no spin zone".

Now, I know how you're looknig at this. You've come across TYT and they seems to say everything you want to say and they say it the way you want to say it. When I was younger I latched on things the same way. Now TYT wasn't around back then, but you can bet your bum that if I knew about TYT when I was 16-19 I would've latched upon them like a vice grip. Now, that might have lasted a few years, but when you have things that fit your bias, yoiu love it until that onbe time when they no longer fit your bias. Once you disagree with them you realize that the entire time this is how they've treated everything, and it will quickly turn really really sour. Trust me.

You think you got me figured out but you are wrong, and you are arguing against a straw man you made up for yourself. It might come up as a surprise to you but other people can also think critically.

Not everything you see or hear is exactly what it appears to be.

I know that thank you very much, now you can stop with the smug act.