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djack
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Response to Occupy wall street media black out Nov. 29th, 2011 @ 11:01 AM Reply

At 11/29/11 03:26 AM, DickBuns wrote: This logic is terrible. It basically equates to generalizing. Using this logic it is ok to jail all black people because several of them smoke and deal crack.

How'd you manage to come to that conclusion? It's reasonable to assume that when a group of people is doing something illegal and actively trying to prevent police from getting into a position to stop the illegal activity that they know what they're doing and deserve to be punished for it. The same can be said for any other Occupy group now that police are telling them to leave and they are refusing especially after all the media coverage of Occupy Oakland getting forced out of their park. If you don't believe me why don't you go do some research about criminal law and the importance of intent in criminal trials.

Your claim is terrible. Not mine. Again. You can't compare the military to a protest. No matter how hard you guys want to think that you can. Try serving, and then coming back into this discussion.

I don't need to serve to compare protestors to children. My point remains valid, even children are expected to behave properly when their actions are representative of a group and if children can do it so can a bunch of adults who claim to represent 99% of the population.

akmeteor
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Response to Occupy wall street media black out Nov. 29th, 2011 @ 11:13 AM Reply

Can someone explain to me why these people are "Representing the 99%"? If they were really saying that and I did not want to be represented, nor associated with these people. Wouldn't I actually have grounds to sue?

Just saying, not actually thinking about doing that.

Well.

Shit.

All-American-Badass
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Response to Occupy wall street media black out Nov. 29th, 2011 @ 11:32 AM Reply

At 11/29/11 11:13 AM, akmeteor wrote: Can someone explain to me why these people are "Representing the 99%"? If they were really saying that and I did not want to be represented, nor associated with these people. Wouldn't I actually have grounds to sue?

Well you can sue for anything you want, this is America, we specialize in frivolous lawsuits. But if used common sense, you have to take into consideration that legally OWS isn't really an organization and even if it it was you'd have to be a member of said organization, then you can sue for defamation against the said people. Otherwise it's just random jackasses spewing babble.


Just saying, not actually thinking about doing that.
akmeteor
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Response to Occupy wall street media black out Nov. 29th, 2011 @ 11:40 AM Reply

At 11/29/11 11:32 AM, All-American-Badass wrote:
Well you can sue for anything you want, this is America, we specialize in frivolous lawsuits. But if used common sense, you have to take into consideration that legally OWS isn't really an organization and even if it it was you'd have to be a member of said organization, then you can sue for defamation against the said people. Otherwise it's just random jackasses spewing babble.

That is true, but under the circumstances given. I see this as undesirable to my reputation since I am a person in the "99%", so I see it as slandering me.


Well.

Shit.

Richard
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Response to Occupy wall street media black out Nov. 29th, 2011 @ 01:54 PM Reply

At 11/29/11 11:01 AM, djack wrote:
I don't need to serve to compare protestors to children. My point remains valid, even children are expected to behave properly when their actions are representative of a group and if children can do it so can a bunch of adults who claim to represent 99% of the population.

More generalizing. Seems legit.

Teachers don't put every single child in the corner if one misbehaves.

Richard
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Response to Occupy wall street media black out Nov. 29th, 2011 @ 01:57 PM Reply

At 11/29/11 11:01 AM, djack wrote:
How'd you manage to come to that conclusion? It's reasonable to assume that when a group of people is doing something illegal and actively trying to prevent police from getting into a position to stop the illegal activity that they know what they're doing and deserve to be punished for it. The same can be said for any other Occupy group now that police are telling them to leave and they are refusing especially after all the media coverage of Occupy Oakland getting forced out of their park. If you don't believe me why don't you go do some research about criminal law and the importance of intent in criminal trials.

Deserve to be punished? I'm sorry. Are you the judge, jury, and executioner? Last time I checked, illegal =/= immoral. A small group of people =/= the entire group of people. You do not beat one person with a baton to the point of hospitalization because another one was acting up.

The American revolution was illegal. Does that mean it deserved to be punished? Nope.

If you don't believe me why don't you go do some research about criminal law and the importance of intent in criminal trials.

djack
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Response to Occupy wall street media black out Nov. 29th, 2011 @ 02:16 PM Reply

At 11/29/11 01:54 PM, DickBuns wrote: More generalizing. Seems legit.

Teachers don't put every single child in the corner if one misbehaves.

Have you ever been in school? I can't even count the number of times I had to endure an unjust punishment because a small minority of the class or student population of the school had misbehaved even though I hadn't done anything wrong.

At 11/29/11 01:57 PM, DickBuns wrote: Deserve to be punished? I'm sorry. Are you the judge, jury, and executioner? Last time I checked, illegal =/= immoral. A small group of people =/= the entire group of people. You do not beat one person with a baton to the point of hospitalization because another one was acting up.

The American revolution was illegal. Does that mean it deserved to be punished? Nope.

If you don't believe me why don't you go do some research about criminal law and the importance of intent in criminal trials.

I probably know more about criminal law than you do seeing as how I've actually studied it whereas you just seem to spout whatever nonsense you think sounds right. If you truly find a law unjust there are ways to protest it but those require that you be willing to accept the punishment for those crimes, so yes they did deserve to be punished (if you think the police don't have the authority to remove those protestors then start your own occupation of UC Davis but just remember that when the cops say move and you don't anything that comes after that you asked for and you better be prepared to accept that otherwise you aren't protesting, you're a scofflaw). It's also not just a small portion of the group, they're all committing a crime by illegally occupying that property and they're all committing a crime when they refused to move after the police ordered them to.

Richard
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Response to Occupy wall street media black out Nov. 29th, 2011 @ 02:26 PM Reply

If you actually study criminal law, then you know that it is not the police's responsibility to determine if a person deserves any sort of punishment. It is their job to detain, and disarm. Stating that people "deserve" anything is an opinion. And best left out of the conversation. Why? Because this isn't a court. This is simply people on the street getting beaten by police in a form of vigilantism. There is no justification for pepper spraying an 80 something year old woman for simply being on a street against police orders unless she posed some sort of threat to the officers. Which she clearly did not.

Your anecdotes about studying law are irrelevant here. As is your opinion that what I've stated is nonsense. Let's keep opinions out of this, and keep to facts. I'm beginning to remember why I stopped posting here in the first place. The lack of intelligent debate that is devoid of any form of insulting.

Congress shall make no law that tramples on any of our rights that are provided in the constitution. The Constitution over rides any state law or local laws. There is lots of legal precedence for this. This is no different.

SuperDeagle
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Response to Occupy wall street media black out Nov. 29th, 2011 @ 02:36 PM Reply

ZZzzzZZzzz

pop

Oh sorry guys, I seemed to of drifted off from all this dry baseless circular reasoning and name calling.

Not fun reading the same bullshit that's gone on five pages now.

Wut?

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All-American-Badass
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Response to Occupy wall street media black out Nov. 29th, 2011 @ 05:51 PM Reply

At 11/29/11 11:40 AM, akmeteor wrote:
At 11/29/11 11:32 AM, All-American-Badass wrote:
Well you can sue for anything you want, this is America, we specialize in frivolous lawsuits. But if used common sense, you have to take into consideration that legally OWS isn't really an organization and even if it it was you'd have to be a member of said organization, then you can sue for defamation against the said people. Otherwise it's just random jackasses spewing babble.
That is true, but under the circumstances given. I see this as undesirable to my reputation since I am a person in the "99%", so I see it as slandering me.

Even then you have to prove that said individual has the intent of soiling your reputation, but that's as far as my legal knowledge takes me, but I'm sure slander and libel laws go into more specific circumstances.

Psil0
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Response to Occupy wall street media black out Nov. 29th, 2011 @ 06:34 PM Reply

At 11/29/11 02:26 PM, DickBuns wrote: If you actually study criminal law, then you know that it is not the police's responsibility to determine if a person deserves any sort of punishment. It is their job to detain, and disarm.

Pepper spray is punishment? Lol, don't give me that load of shit. If the officer felt that by using pepper spray, he would be more able to detain the people protesting without further resistance, then he had every right to use it.

Also, even if he had just arrested them without using pepper spray. You'd still have your panties in a bunch.

Camarohusky
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Response to Occupy wall street media black out Nov. 29th, 2011 @ 09:06 PM Reply

At 11/29/11 02:26 PM, DickBuns wrote: If you actually study criminal law,

Well, do you actually study criminal law? Your post suggests you have not (especially seeing as the actions of the police fall under criminal procedure and not criminal law)

Iron-Hampster
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Response to Occupy wall street media black out Nov. 29th, 2011 @ 09:53 PM Reply

At 11/29/11 02:36 PM, SuperDeagle wrote: ZZzzzZZzzz
pop
Oh sorry guys, I seemed to of drifted off from all this dry baseless circular reasoning and name calling.
Not fun reading the same bullshit that's gone on five pages now.

awyea, I have really lost interest in my own topic pretty fast.

dahhh, ill let one more crack in, we should send cops to enforce time outs for everyone every time someone somewhere does something bad.


ya hear about the guy who put his condom on backwards? He went.

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Camarohusky
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Response to Occupy wall street media black out Nov. 29th, 2011 @ 10:12 PM Reply

At 11/29/11 09:53 PM, Iron-Hampster wrote: dahhh, ill let one more crack in, we should send cops to enforce time outs for everyone every time someone somewhere does something bad.

Unless they're greasy homeless hipsters, cause they can't break any laws. It's physically impossible.

orangebomb
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Response to Occupy wall street media black out Nov. 29th, 2011 @ 11:01 PM Reply

At 11/29/11 02:26 PM, DickBuns wrote: If you actually study criminal law, then you know that it is not the police's responsibility to determine if a person deserves any sort of punishment. It is their job to detain, and disarm. Stating that people "deserve" anything is an opinion. And best left out of the conversation. Why? Because this isn't a court. This is simply people on the street getting beaten by police in a form of vigilantism.

How exactly is police action considered "vigilantism", I ask you? They weren't going down in a peaceful manner that would harm outsiders, officers and even themselves, therefore, they had to be detained via pepper spray. Whether they deserve it or not is up to the beholder, but I digress. Simply stated, if a bunch of emotional hipsters start acting the fool out there, the police need to respond with whatever tool that is needed.

There is no justification for pepper spraying an 80 something year old woman for simply being on a street against police orders unless she posed some sort of threat to the officers. Which she clearly did not.

Ok, now I know that has to be a little exaggerated when an officer used pepper spray on an 80 year old. Now if this was true, then the officer should be punished accordingly, but as of now there is no real proof of that happening, or at the very least, we didn't hear from the officer's side of the story.

Your anecdotes about studying law are irrelevant here. As is your opinion that what I've stated is nonsense. Let's keep opinions out of this, and keep to facts. I'm beginning to remember why I stopped posting here in the first place. The lack of intelligent debate that is devoid of any form of insulting.

Truth be told, you're not exactly helping the cause here. Trying to insult our intellegence in a debate like this is not a good idea. We're not trying to be articulate for the sake of being articulate, but we state our points in a simple enough way to understand. Plus, no one is forcing you to be in this debate, so what's your deal?

Congress shall make no law that tramples on any of our rights that are provided in the constitution. The Constitution over rides any state law or local laws. There is lots of legal precedence for this. This is no different.

Well, when hipsters begin to act up and create trouble for themselves and especially to others, then someone has to stop that before all hell breaks loose. There would be no problem with them, if they would simply obey the law and not act the fool, but I guess that's too much to ask for when it comes to butthurt hipsters who piss and moan about corporate greed over their iPhones and Starbucks coffee.


Just stop worrying, and love the bomb.

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Richard
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Response to Occupy wall street media black out Nov. 29th, 2011 @ 11:16 PM Reply

I don't see any hipsters here. So referring to the protesters as simply "hipsters" is not appropriate. Many of them are not hipsters.

Here is an 84 year old lady being helped to the hospital after being pepper sprayed. There is another recorded incident of a pregnant woman being pepper sprayed, and in result, miscarrying.

I was not insulting anyone's intelligence. I was saying that there is a lack of intelligent debate that is devoid of insult. Basically, there is intelligent debate. But there is none that is devoid of insult. Cool down on being defensive eh?

The only tool needed here, was a bit of muscle to move them, and handcuffs/zip strips. Not an industrial sized can of pepper spray. The fact is, is that they were not detained. Simply abused by a chemical agent which is in fact barred from use when two countries go to war. So. It's ok to bar these same chemical agents/weapons from use against enemy combatants, but it's ok to spray civilly disobedient "hipsters" who pose no physical threat?

Richard
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Response to Occupy wall street media black out Nov. 29th, 2011 @ 11:20 PM Reply

At 11/29/11 06:34 PM, Psil0 wrote:
Pepper spray is punishment? Lol, don't give me that load of shit. If the officer felt that by using pepper spray, he would be more able to detain the people protesting without further resistance, then he had every right to use it.

Also, even if he had just arrested them without using pepper spray. You'd still have your panties in a bunch.

Mature. Real mature. Actually, if they were arrested without being assailed by a chemical agent, I would have a small problem with them being arrested for exercising their rights, but I would not have a big problem with it. Because the lawyers guild would step in and help them out. The lawyers guild however, can't do much for someone who is pepper sprayed. Sure they can sue their pants off, but they can't physically heal any of the damage that has been done.

It's safe to say that you've never been pepper sprayed. If you had been, then you could understand why I used punishment in the context that I did. You would not be able to shrug it off. Regardless of what you think.

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Response to Occupy wall street media black out Nov. 29th, 2011 @ 11:26 PM Reply

At 11/29/11 11:01 PM, orangebomb wrote:
At 11/29/11 02:26 PM, DickBuns wrote:
Ok, now I know that has to be a little exaggerated when an officer used pepper spray on an 80 year old. Now if this was true, then the officer should be punished accordingly, but as of now there is no real proof of that happening, or at the very least, we didn't hear from the officer's side of the story.

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011 -11-16/news/30404646_1_pepper-spray-preg nant-woman-protesters

"Pepper spray was deployed only against subjects who were either refusing a lawful order to disperse or engaging in assaultive behavior toward officers."

That will always be, from now until the end of time, an officer's side of the story. The law.

Richard
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Response to Occupy wall street media black out Nov. 29th, 2011 @ 11:26 PM Reply

Your "hipsters" were in the right with their non-violent and civil protest.

Hence the University, who employs those same police who pepper sprayed them, are now paying the victim's medical bills.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/23/us/califor nia-occupy-pepper-spray/?hpt=hp_t3

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Response to Occupy wall street media black out Nov. 29th, 2011 @ 11:36 PM Reply

At 11/29/11 11:20 PM, DickBuns wrote: The lawyers guild

You're speaking of NLG right?

Guess what? I'm on the NLG listserve (I signed up before I knew what it was and have been too lazy to remove myself from it, but I do like to read their stories and debates).

There is a big rift in NLG between those who support the camps and those whothink the camps are counterproductive and actually expose the protestors to harm without any real gains.

You know the funny thing about those "know your rights" groups? They tell everyone how to know their rights when they get in a pickle, yet forego the logical position of avoiding pickles in the first place... It's as if they encourage people to rock the boat for the sole prupose of having someone to fight for. (This last sentence sums up my belief of the protestor's real motives)

Psil0
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Response to Occupy wall street media black out Nov. 29th, 2011 @ 11:52 PM Reply

At 11/29/11 11:20 PM, DickBuns wrote:
At 11/29/11 06:34 PM, Psil0 wrote:
Pepper spray is punishment? Lol, don't give me that load of shit. If the officer felt that by using pepper spray, he would be more able to detain the people protesting without further resistance, then he had every right to use it.

Also, even if he had just arrested them without using pepper spray. You'd still have your panties in a bunch.
Mature. Real mature. Actually, if they were arrested without being assailed by a chemical agent, I would have a small problem with them being arrested for exercising their rights, but I would not have a big problem with it.

They have the right to protest. But within a reasonable means. By refusing to disperse, they were breaking the law. How hard is that to understand?

Because the lawyers guild would step in and help them out. The lawyers guild however, can't do much for someone who is pepper sprayed. Sure they can sue their pants off, but they can't physically heal any of the damage that has been done.

What damage was done? They're eyes burning a bit? So who cares?

It's safe to say that you've never been pepper sprayed. If you had been, then you could understand why I used punishment in the context that I did. You would not be able to shrug it off. Regardless of what you think.

I've not been pepper sprayed. But I have dealt with CS/Tear gas. And you know what, it sucked for an hour or so, but it didn't kill me or do any serious harm. I figure being pepper sprayed is no different, it burns and irritates, but it's not going to kill you.

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Response to Occupy wall street media black out Nov. 30th, 2011 @ 12:13 AM Reply

At 11/29/11 11:16 PM, DickBuns wrote: There is another recorded incident of a pregnant woman being pepper sprayed, and in result, miscarrying.

I'm not entirely sure how's that possible, you wouldn't think having burning eyes would result in miscarrying a child.

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Response to Occupy wall street media black out Nov. 30th, 2011 @ 12:24 AM Reply

At 11/29/11 11:52 PM, Psil0 wrote:

They have the right to protest. But within a reasonable means. By refusing to disperse, they were breaking the law. How hard is that to understand?

Police do not have the right to command a person to stop using their constitutional rights so long as no one else's rights are being violated. How hard is that to understand?


Because the lawyers guild would step in and help them out. The lawyers guild however, can't do much for someone who is pepper sprayed. Sure they can sue their pants off, but they can't physically heal any of the damage that has been done.
What damage was done? They're eyes burning a bit? So who cares?

You clearly have not bothered to actually take a look at the articles reporting on this. People have been hospitalized. It's more than "their eyes burning a bit". See: Scott Olsen. Guy took a gas canister to the skull that was fired by police. He was in the hospital for a couple weeks, and had to go through therapy to recover. His ability to speak was lost, but he has worked himself up to do so again. Did I mention the fractured skull?


It's safe to say that you've never been pepper sprayed. If you had been, then you could understand why I used punishment in the context that I did. You would not be able to shrug it off. Regardless of what you think.
I've not been pepper sprayed. But I have dealt with CS/Tear gas. And you know what, it sucked for an hour or so, but it didn't kill me or do any serious harm. I figure being pepper sprayed is no different, it burns and irritates, but it's not going to kill you.

There is a huge difference between CS/Tear gas, and pepper spray. Tear gas, is in fact, not actually a gas, but a particulate similar to dust. Pepper spray is a liquid. You figure they are no different, but you figure incorrectly. Pepper spray will not clear up in an hour or so unless a basic liquid of some sort is applied to the affected areas immediately after exposure. It is much easier to clear particulates out of the lungs rather than a liquid.

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Response to Occupy wall street media black out Nov. 30th, 2011 @ 12:26 AM Reply

At 11/29/11 09:48 AM, Korriken wrote: no dumbass, its not. you stupid little "jump off the bridge argument" holds no water.

Sigh, okay let me put it this way: Is protesting in the united states of america Illegal?

you miss the concept of "you can't break the law, even if you are a hypocritical hippie"

You labeling the OWS protesters in such a way shows you have no understanding of the issue at hand. You should let the adult talks instead of trying to bolster your ego by bashing OWS to try to look better than them.

blocking off a street, sidewalk, etc is get this, ILLEGAL! as in AGAINST THE LAW! a cop ordering you to move is legal and refusing to obey is illegal. They're lucky the cops didn't just move in, swarm the hippies, load them all into a paddy wagon, and toss them all in jail.

In the situation we are talking about they weren't, and even there, is it moral to just pash the brains out of any protest group because they supposedly blocked a street or a building for some time? I think it's a concession that is greatly acceptable comparing to the actions of the people they are protesting.

next stupid argument? gonna ask me if a cop can order you to leap from a plane with no parachute next?

No but if a cop would order someone else to do it and you would see them refuse you might cheer the police up while they beat them down afterwards amirite?

They found guns in Zucotti Park when they forced the camp to break up. OWS totally non violent? as much as the left would like to say "damn right, totally non violent! these pigs just can't stand to be questioned!" it's just not true.

I see you are a fervent watcher of fox news.What guns are you talking about all I could find info about was regarding a "weapons cache" which allegedly included a kitchen knife, some cardboard rolls and some metal pipes, what a fucking arsenal here, they were obviously ready to storm the mayor's office. I'm sorry but you have no rights to laugh at anybody's arguments when yours are 10 times as laughable.

disobey a lawful order and your ass is grass. they could have saved themselves a lot of pain and suffering by just getting up and clearing the sidewalk. but no, they think they have the right to break the law and then disobey the cops when ordered to move, when then when the cops went to begin making to grab the law breakers off the ground to arrest them, the protestors began resisting arrest.

I get it, I think the issue here is that you do not understand the concept of a protest.

they got what was coming to them. Protest is fine, but breaking the law in the process doesn't help you at all.

Protesting is fine, as long as the cops let you protest. WOW!

Funny that you never saw the tea party (who was villified by the media) being dragged off or pepper sprayed by the cops. wanna know why? HERE is WHY! they didn't go around breaking the law!

Yet they carried guns (they actually did). To say that the tea party was vilified by the media and not OWS is laughable, we just have to look at all the bullshit you spouted about it so far. Not to mention the fact OWS is fighting against corrupt goverment and rigging the system while the tea party was protesting uuh... I don't know but they liked the tax cuts for the rich.

I used to be a security guard, I've been pepper sprayed, had to get sprayed in order to be able to carry it on the job. it burns like hell for a few hours, then it wears off and you're left with a bad memory, little else. Pepper spray doesn't leave a trail of corpses. I've also been tasered, in case you were wondering.

Tasered, how shocking. Cool story you got tasered, I am genuinely surprised. However while those weapons are non-lethal and can serve as a good asset to cops in arresting people, they often get overused and cops abuse their power. Here is a clear, recent example, just in case.

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Response to Occupy wall street media black out Nov. 30th, 2011 @ 12:30 AM Reply

At 11/29/11 11:36 PM, Camarohusky wrote:
At 11/29/11 11:20 PM, DickBuns wrote:
You know the funny thing about those "know your rights" groups? They tell everyone how to know their rights when they get in a pickle, yet forego the logical position of avoiding pickles in the first place...

You're being a bit ridiculous now, because it's not possible to never get into a situation where your rights would be compromised. Getting into a pickle is pivotal in bringing about change. Avoiding such situations isn't logical if you feel that something is amiss with your society and/or the laws it follows. If everyone avoided confrontations and went along with whatever was going on at the time and nobody ever broke the law or was arrested, civil and social progress would be non-existent.

It's as if they encourage people to rock the boat for the sole prupose of having someone to fight for. (This last sentence sums up my belief of the protestor's real motives)

And what would spur you to this conclusion?

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Response to Occupy wall street media black out Nov. 30th, 2011 @ 01:23 AM Reply

At 11/30/11 12:26 AM, VenomKing666 wrote:
Sigh, okay let me put it this way: Is protesting in the united states of america Illegal?

at this point, normally, I would just walk off, but I suppose I'll say it in a way you can understand.

Protesting = legal
barricading public roads and property = not legal
setting up camp inside of city limits on public property = not legal
disobeying a lawful order from a police officer = not legal

You labeling the OWS protesters in such a way shows you have no understanding of the issue at hand. You should let the adult talks instead of trying to bolster your ego by bashing OWS to try to look better than them.

like you got room to speak of "being an adult". I'll put it like this. there are many ways to protest, some are legal, responsible, and effective. what OWS is doing is is sometimes legal, sometimes not, its not very responsible to protest and not hold down a job to support yourself, or at least be looking for work, and its not effective at all to protest in the manner they protest because they just look stupid.

In the situation we are talking about they weren't, and even there, is it moral to just pash the brains out of any protest group because they supposedly blocked a street or a building for some time? I think it's a concession that is greatly acceptable comparing to the actions of the people they are protesting.

who said anything about bashing anyone's brains in? If you want to protest, fine, but do it in a legal manner. blocking off access to a building or property that does not belong to you is illegal. blocking off public property is also illegal.

No but if a cop would order someone else to do it and you would see them refuse you might cheer the police up while they beat them down afterwards amirite?

*facepalm* i will not justify that with an answer, because that is just plain stupid.

I see you are a fervent watcher of fox news....

I was half asleep when i posted this one, Correction: they didn't find it in zucotti park, they found it on a guy. http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manha ttan/party_over_but_more_occupy_arrests_
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and no i didn't get it from fox news. nice try though.

that's also a fun read, dumbasses breaking the law, thinking they can get away with it because they're part of some group, and ending up in prison.

however, it does kinda make you wonder what kind of damage a metal pipe can do, doesn't it? I got some cardboard rolls at work, I know a thick one hits about as hard as a baseball bat if you swing it... not sure if the ones found there are thick or not.

I get it, I think the issue here is that you do not understand the concept of a protest.

I understand the concept of a protest just fine, willfully breaking the law isn't how it's done. All these people know is "break the law, get arrested, garner pity, someone will do something for them... eventually." it's a bad plan. If they want to protest, they need to come up with a solution. However, all I hear is... "we're the 99% and we will be heard!" which apparently anyone who disagrees with them is in the 1%.. I wonder what happened to my millions upon million of dollars I apparently have because these dumb sons of bitches do NOT represent me.

Protesting is fine, as long as the cops let you protest. WOW!

funny that the cops weren't firing tear gas into the tea party rallies, oh wait, that's right, they weren't blocking off streets and camping in parks, or breaking the law. odd how that works.

Personally, I'm amazed they haven't (to my knowledge) try to compare themselves to the civil rights marchers treatment, which would be laughable, because they had a plan and a solution, unlike OWS who just want... something.

OWS is fighting against corrupt goverment and rigging the system...

they're not fighting against anything, they're just pitching tents in places they shouldn't be pitching tents and hoping something happens. that's not protest. normally when people protest, they have a solution to the problem. OWS does not. all they got is, "We're not putting up with this no more! we're gonna camp in town until we get what we want!"

it'll fizzle out as winter comes.

Tasered, how shocking. Cool story you got tasered, I am genuinely surprised. However while those weapons are non-lethal and can serve as a good asset to cops in arresting people, they often get overused and cops abuse their power. Here is a clear, recent example, just in case.

I think they did the right thing. if you fail to uphold the law, shit just goes to hell.


I'm not crazy, everyone else is.

Richard
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Response to Occupy wall street media black out Nov. 30th, 2011 @ 02:54 AM Reply

Breaking the law? The law is not the end all be all god that you think it is bud.

Laws change.

See: Civil rights movement.

Korriken
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Response to Occupy wall street media black out Nov. 30th, 2011 @ 08:40 AM Reply

At 11/30/11 02:54 AM, DickBuns wrote: Breaking the law? The law is not the end all be all god that you think it is bud.

Laws change.

See: Civil rights movement.

I knew someone would eventually invoke the civil rights movement... totally different thing today. there's a difference between marching in the streets, fighting for your right to vote, or sit at the front of the bus. it's just different to pitch a tent in a park or by city hall, demand attention, and have no solution to the problem you want solved.


I'm not crazy, everyone else is.

Richard
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Response to Occupy wall street media black out Nov. 30th, 2011 @ 09:23 AM Reply

At 11/30/11 08:40 AM, Korriken wrote:
I knew someone would eventually invoke the civil rights movement... totally different thing today. there's a difference between marching in the streets, fighting for your right to vote, or sit at the front of the bus. it's just different to pitch a tent in a park or by city hall, demand attention, and have no solution to the problem you want solved.

You have no right to sit at the front of the bus. Simply a right to not be discriminated against. Indeed. It is different to pitch a tent in a park or by city hall and demand attention while having no solution to the problem that you want solved, but that doesn't make it any less legitimate. The civil rights movement was for the cause of equal rights, the dismissal of jim crow laws, and the equal treatment of minorities and whites. The protesters did not write up exact legislation and bills for congress. They simply stamped their feet and rolled hard until they got what they wanted.

Likewise, the protesters want to get rid of corporate personhood, and they want corporate money out of politics.

Last I checked, you don't need a solution to a problem to protest against it and ask for change. That's why we have legislators and lawmakers. To legislate and make laws that reflect the will of the people.

Camarohusky
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Response to Occupy wall street media black out Nov. 30th, 2011 @ 12:21 PM Reply

At 11/30/11 12:30 AM, MultiCanimefan wrote: You're being a bit ridiculous now, because it's not possible to never get into a situation where your rights would be compromised.

Ridiculous? Really? Now I know it's not possible to never get into a bad situation, but this is not the case here. These group do two things. They either encourage people to be completely oblivious of how their acts will put themselves in a bad position, or they actively encourage people to go out and get into trouble. You wouldn't go around harlem shouting the N word just so you can prove your right to self defense, would you?

And what would spur you to this conclusion?

My past experience with this group and their ilk (wikileaks) is that they like to rock the boat for the sole purpose of rocking the boat. They aren't fu;lfilled until something is wrong that they can rail against.

Getting into a pickle is pivotal in bringing about change. Avoiding such situations isn't logical if you feel that something is amiss with your society and/or the laws it follows. If everyone avoided confrontations and went along with whatever was going on at the time and nobody ever broke the law or was arrested, civil and social progress would be non-existent.

Now this I 100% disagree with. Sure there are situations where this is the case. I would even concede that for a very short period at the beginning of OWS this was likely the case, but that ended well over a month ago. OWS accomplised everything they will ever accomplish by hipster style "we wish we had a real cause/let's pretend to be homeless" protesting within one or two weeks. They got the attention, and they got the political backing for their cause. What have they done since? They have become a spectacle. They have turned off the average person. They have tainted their cause.

There are so many good ways that OWS can focus their numbers for actual change whilst not coming off as a bunch of bored, stinky, homless, hippies. Also, guess what another good side effect of doing thingds RIGHT is?

NO PEPPER SPRAY!!!!!