Self defense curriculum in school?

[TheSixthCell]

Do you think there should be incorperated into Phys Ed from seventh grade on a unit on self defense, and a self defense class? Not teaching how to ram your fist down somebodies throat or break their arm or shit like that, just very basic stuff like rolling out of falls, throwing, blocking hits, throwing a decent punch, stance, taking them to the ground, very basic stuff like that? I personally would teach my kid from a very early age, because they need to know this. I don't see this happening in the near future, but how would you react if it did, and do you think it should happen?

[Warforger]

P.E. is the most pointless class ever. No one gives a shit about the class and its taking the place of what could be more class options for those who want to get ahead. It wastes money and time and doesn't even improve anything.

[TheSixthCell]

At 9/28/11 10:26 PM, Warforger wrote: P.E. is the most pointless class ever. No one gives a shit about the class and its taking the place of what could be more class options for those who want to get ahead. It wastes money and time and doesn't even improve anything.

Well it makes sure that kids aren't all lazy asses. That's about it. If they taught self defense as part of the curriculum at least it would pose some use.

[Camarohusky]

Great. Let's teach a bunch of immature and anger prone students who are likely to fight, HOW to fight...

Great idea. But this is would likely have too many initial bad side effects to actually justify its use.

[All-American-Badass]

I support it, have something like a heavily watered down MMA training complete with wrestling mats and punching dummies. If I was running a school district I'd put in that program for a year see how it goes and go on from there.

[orangebomb]

I wouldn't be opposed to a self defense class in school, as long as it's optional and the training is not anything like you see in a UFC fight or something like that. Of course, there is always a chance out there that some douchebags might take the course, and just go practice this on some poor kid outside, so maybe make a rule that if you are caught using moves you just learned on someone who is defenseless in school grounds, then you can automatically fail them on the spot.

[Proteas]

At 9/28/11 10:51 PM, Camarohusky wrote: Great. Let's teach a bunch of immature and anger prone students who are likely to fight, HOW to fight...

And that's any different from football or wrestling.... how?

[Famas]

The best self defense is to avoid confrontation, and if that's not possible you run away. They even teach you that in martial arts classes.

[Proteas]

At 9/29/11 12:24 AM, Famas wrote: The best self defense is to avoid confrontation, and if that's not possible you run away. They even teach you that in martial arts classes.

If you can't avoid confrontation, how are you going to run away?

If you can answer me that, we'll sit down and write a book and make millions.

[Famas]

By avoid confrontation I mean diffuse a situation by backing down and placating somebody. Say what they want to hear, apologize for angering them, whatever you think will keep them from escalating.

Where's my book

[Proteas]

At 9/29/11 12:30 AM, Famas wrote: By avoid confrontation I mean diffuse a situation by backing down and placating somebody. Say what they want to hear, apologize for angering them, whatever you think will keep them from escalating.

Where's my book

You said if it wasn't possible to avoid the situation, run away. How are you going to run away from something you can't avoid?

Answer; you don't.

[Famas]

Run away from a confrontation you can't diffuse, genius.

[SteveGuzzi]

from the bullying thread:

3.} Should the schools deal with this problem, and/or does the government have to get involved at any level?

i've always held the opinion that self-defense should be a basic part of the school curriculum. being educated on how to defend oneself from harm seems as practical and common-sense to me as being educated on how to perform simple arithmetic.

---

so, yeah.

[Proteas]

At 9/29/11 12:37 AM, Famas wrote: Run away from a confrontation you can't diffuse, genius.

Say you're in a bar somewhere, and some guy who has had one too many beers has decided that you were looking at his girlfriend a little to intently, and he has you backed into a corner. He's drunk, he can't be reasoned with. The bartender is busy calling the cops, the bouncer is in the back taking a shit, and you can not physically run away. You're on your own because it's a Tuesday night and your buddies did not want to go drinking with you tonight. Your options at this point are to either defend yourself, or let this guy do what he wants until the cops or the bouncer shows up.

What are you going to do?

That's the kind of situation I was trying to illustrate for you. Taking the U.N. option of being diplomatic and running away if the situation gets hairy is not always available, sooner or later you're going to have to take responsibility for yourself. And who knows, a basic self defense class in high school just might be helpful.

[Famas]

Schools (public schools at least) almost universally instruct students to not fight back. They do this under the premise of student safety, but I think it's safe to say it's mainly just policy put in place in order to avoid lawsuits. In most of the school systems I'm familiar with, fighting, even in the case of self defense, usually results in suspension and a lot of cases even expulsion.

That said, most public schools DO offer extra-curricular/elective 'self defense' classes such as wrestling and boxing. My school offered judo as well as TKD. When you get into college, your options are significantly expanded if you attend a halfway-decent campus. I'd say if you're really that concerned about learning how to throw a punch or see yourself getting into fights frequently, it's your prerogative to take the classes, or in the case of younger children, the initiative of the parents to decide how to best approach it. Schools taking the active stance of teaching kids how to fight would likely just cause an incredibly annoying shitstorm.

Doing everything you can to avoid punches being thrown is still the best and safest defense. Your bar brawl scenario is kind of absurd given the context of talking about school age kids.

[Love]

At 9/28/11 10:51 PM, Camarohusky wrote: Great. Let's teach a bunch of immature and anger prone students who are likely to fight, HOW to fight...

Seconded.

[TheSixthCell]

At 9/29/11 01:47 PM, Hybridization wrote:

At 9/28/11 10:51 PM, Camarohusky wrote: Great. Let's teach a bunch of immature and anger prone students who are likely to fight, HOW to fight...

Seconded.

It's teaching how to defend, not how to start and finish fights. You know, defend so you don't get your ass handed to you until a teacher inevitably breaks it up? Learning to start and finish fights is up to the students.

[thedo12]

Actually the high school I went to did something like this and it worked out great , instead of just "self defense" we learned judo ,and we actually did chokes/armbars in addition to all the throws we did it in a safe way . There was also some judo philosophy that was nice.

It worked out great, the bullies at school will already know how to fight , they get plenty of first hand experience with it. The people your mostly teaching are those who aren't going start anything and will defend yourself. Nerds/dorks/weirdos and average people.

I still have my yellow belt , lol . The only thing bad that came out of it was how awkward it was changing into your gi front of a whole class of gals/guys (we didn't have change rooms lol , only thing we had was a tiny japenesse wall thing for girls to change in)

I also hate the idea when people say PE is useless and this is coming from the biggest lib you will find. physical activity is important for both your mind and body , it can help with depression and a lot of things you wouldn't think about. The only problem with PE is how competitive it is so awkward/less active kids are left out , which happens to be the exact opposite of what you want to happen.

[TheSixthCell]

At 9/29/11 02:42 PM, thedo12 wrote: Actually the high school I went to did something like this and it worked out great , instead of just "self defense" we learned judo ,and we actually did chokes/armbars in addition to all the throws we did it in a safe way . There was also some judo philosophy that was nice.

It worked out great, the bullies at school will already know how to fight , they get plenty of first hand experience with it. The people your mostly teaching are those who aren't going start anything and will defend yourself. Nerds/dorks/weirdos and average people.

I still have my yellow belt , lol . The only thing bad that came out of it was how awkward it was changing into your gi front of a whole class of gals/guys (we didn't have change rooms lol , only thing we had was a tiny japenesse wall thing for girls to change in)

I also hate the idea when people say PE is useless and this is coming from the biggest lib you will find. physical activity is important for both your mind and body , it can help with depression and a lot of things you wouldn't think about. The only problem with PE is how competitive it is so awkward/less active kids are left out , which happens to be the exact opposite of what you want to happen.

You had some points there I hadn't thought of, such as the bullies already knowing how to fight. I can't believe I missed that, I must have been tired or distracted or something. Do you still remember the moves you learned? I'm curious to that. I took karate... for a month when I was six. All I learned was combat rolls and one block. Surprisingly enough, just that has saved my ass in a fight before. Such as combat rolling to duck a punch while kicking out their knee mid-roll. You have no idea how useful that is.

[thedo12]

At 9/29/11 02:49 PM, TheSixthCell wrote:
Do you still remember the moves you learned? I'm curious to that. I took karate... for a month when I was six. All I learned was combat rolls and one block. Surprisingly enough, just that has saved my ass in a fight before. Such as combat rolling to duck a punch while kicking out their knee mid-roll. You have no idea how useful that is.

I still remember basic throws , but not anything specific. I also remember grappling, how to fall safely, how to do a flying arm bar(they never taught me the flying part I learned that by myself, lol) and the basic choke. I've never had to use it yet thankfully , but it's good just to develop what I would call physical literacy (basic movements and hand eye coordination ect:) . This is something people who get picked on the most usually lack and hence can't even compete if you discount skill and experience which bullies have in spades most of the time.

[TheSixthCell]

At 9/29/11 03:01 PM, thedo12 wrote:

At 9/29/11 02:49 PM, TheSixthCell wrote:
Do you still remember the moves you learned? I'm curious to that. I took karate... for a month when I was six. All I learned was combat rolls and one block. Surprisingly enough, just that has saved my ass in a fight before. Such as combat rolling to duck a punch while kicking out their knee mid-roll. You have no idea how useful that is.

I still remember basic throws , but not anything specific. I also remember grappling, how to fall safely, how to do a flying arm bar(they never taught me the flying part I learned that by myself, lol) and the basic choke. I've never had to use it yet thankfully , but it's good just to develop what I would call physical literacy (basic movements and hand eye coordination ect:) . This is something people who get picked on the most usually lack and hence can't even compete if you discount skill and experience which bullies have in spades most of the time.

I basically learned how to punch correctly, kick correctly, roll, and a basic block. I then learned the rest from fights and experience. It's all fun to use. Thankfully i've only had to actually try to hurt somebody badly once. The rest of the times I badly hurt somebody it was just me trying to defend myself, somebody else, or they pissed me off way too much.

[thegarbear14]

At 9/29/11 01:47 PM, Hybridization wrote:

At 9/28/11 10:51 PM, Camarohusky wrote: Great. Let's teach a bunch of immature and anger prone students who are likely to fight, HOW to fight...

Seconded.

so me learning military history makes me more dangerous knowing a few easy military strategies as well then, and if i learned kung-fu i'd be a risk, or was in wrestling.......and football if i was in that. might as well ban school sports and knock out classes and tape up kids arms and legs.

[Ericho]

Self defense sounds like a bad idea because wouldn't you teach the same thing to kids who would potentially become bullies? Of course, then the victims would be equally as difficult to beat. Anyway, I think martial arts is something that only certain people should have and it doesn't seem right to insert it in a school curriculum because it's not basic enough to recommend. Then again, it could come in useful.

[TheMason]

One of the things we see with firearm self-defense is places where people are allowed to carry for self-defense you see a decrease in violent crime. One of the main reasons for this is the criminal mindset is geared towards making fast cash or preying on the weak. When the victim pool is potentially armed and thereby either a) able to level the playing field or b) tilt the field in their favor...the predators tend to slink away.

Now with bullying and fighting in school you often have the same mindset. You've got ppl who are able to use blunt force to intimidate and get their way. Let's face it, it's usually not the martial arts dorks who go around trying to kick ppl's ass. It's the big guys who merely throw their weight/strength around.

SO if you teach self-defense to everyone these guys will now face guys who for the most part are more agile than they. So the bully's effectiveness goes down. If you teach the scrawny nerds (like I was) how to evade and even harm their attacker...now the bullies have incentive to control themselves.

There is no data on this so at this point so everyone's opinion is just thought-experiments. Which is great about living in a decentralized system. We can try it in some schools and if it yields positive results other schools can adopt it. If the results are negative, the negative impact is negligable.

[Camarohusky]

At 10/3/11 07:54 PM, TheMason wrote: Now with bullying and fighting in school you often have the same mindset.

With bullying yes, but that's not my worry here. Fighting, at least when I grew up, was usually between two evenly matched participants. In this situation, what would likely be a wrestling match could turn into an actual fight between two people who know how to fight to win.

[SteveGuzzi]

At 10/3/11 09:15 PM, Camarohusky wrote: what would likely be a wrestling match could turn into an actual fight between two people who know how to fight to win.

...what's the difference?

is your argument that people are going to fight anyway so they might as well be inept at it?

[DarkMatter]

At 9/28/11 10:26 PM, Warforger wrote: P.E. is the most pointless class ever. No one gives a shit about the class and its taking the place of what could be more class options for those who want to get ahead. It wastes money and time and doesn't even improve anything.

Most ignant thing a person could say.

Thanks to P.E. I'm still somewhat decent shape more than 6 years after not having it as part of my daily life. Of course I rocked P.E. rather than just spend the hour loafing around like a turd.

I'm a stoner btw.

[JoNoGo]

I think that there is some evidence that those with low level self defense knolegde end up getting injured much more than those with no knowledge. The theory placed on that being that those with some basic knowledge of defense have less anxiety in violent situations fueled by their belief that they will subdue an attacker in situations were other peopple would run away avoid the situation.

For that reason my answers No, however i enjoy Chinese kick boxing both as a route to increased fitness and as a sport. Still avoid confrontation like the plague though.

[Cootie]

No, kids that are violent could use what they learned to become bigger bullies. Also, kids shouldn't even worry about fighting because 99% of the time kids fight in school it is because they are running their mouth too much.

[Dromedary]

Can you imagine the public uproar if schools taught compulsory self defence lessons? Despite being potentially useful, or lifesaving even, a disgruntled parent would sue the school/education board because their child 'got beaten up by someone who was taught combat skills by school/turned into a killing machine at school.'