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Presidnet Bush Should make a speech, arabic translator next to him, saying that these travesties are NOT the policy of the US. But no, Rummy hasn't even apologized. those fucking doushes

At 5/4/04 03:36 PM, Fiend_Lore wrote: well aparently not. if we really wanted to, we could just carpet bomb the fuckers, take their oil, and call it good.

Err, doesn't oil go "boom!" when you light it?

but NOOO, we have to make a big ol' political deal over it.

EVERYTHING is a big political deal, bub

At 5/3/04 01:36 PM, Lyddiechu wrote: This isn't going to be a rant against the military police who performed the abuse on the Iraqi prisoners.. Yes, what they did was wrong, however, I am more angry at whoever leaked this information to the media and for the media for exploiting this story. HELLO PEOPLE, there is a WAR on here we are trying to win, and there are certain things that need to be kept within the military during a war. Really, more harm than good was done by exposing this incident to the public. The 6 or 7 soldiers who performed the abuse should be reprimanded but really, there is absolutely no need for anyone else to know until the war is long, long over. We are trying to get the arab world to stop hating us so we can clean up the mess we got ourselves into. We cannot do that if we allow our media to expose our military's flaws on international telivision 24 hours a day. Christ almighty, does no one know how to run a regime anymore??

i agree with you but im not mad at all at the military i think they should waste all the fucks just round em' up and blow the shit out of them! but the media has to be assholes now thats probly alot less info we will get from prisoners

At 5/4/04 08:31 PM, imdisturbed wrote: i think they should waste all the fucks just round em' up and blow the shit out of them!

That's brilliant. Why don't you just never post again, hmmm?

At 5/4/04 09:00 PM, LadyGooie wrote:

At 5/4/04 08:31 PM, imdisturbed wrote: i think they should waste all the fucks just round em' up and blow the shit out of them!

That's brilliant. Why don't you just never post again, hmmm?

yes.. but.. think of how easy it would be. *sigh* ah ethics, always mucking things up.

a lot of peopl here are saying that the media leak is going to create even more rage against the americans in the arab world. what i would like to know is, how long do you think this could have been hidden before the iraqi's themselves got a hold of the information.

it's really disgusting when we find out once again that our military can't control itself. bush definately needs to give an apology for this, even though he's not directly responsible.

Isn't he?

no, he's not. the president doesn't micromanage the actions of every military unit. that burden rests on their CO

At 5/4/04 11:38 PM, FatherVenom wrote: Isn't he?

He's not giving an apology either.

I haven't seen Bush apologize for anything . Is it that hard just to say "hey, i screwed up" and try to make amends? Or is he too foolishly proud to admit he could be human, and could have made an error in judgement?

I'd like to see all those soldiers and officers in that chain of command all the way up to that Brigadier General sent to Leavenworth for a long time.

Well technically we wouldn't be over there if it weren't for our beloved CIC, so it really is his fault although I don't know if it's indirect because I freakin tired and I meant to go to be two and a half hours ago. Stupid Cinquo de Mayo parties.

I find it disgusting that some people here believe that this news shouldn't have gotten out. What the hell? It would cause more rage against the US? Well, here's a news flash: If you wouldn't torture people you wouldn't have to worry about negative news reports about you torturing people! God dammit, this is like saying "well, let's not put anything about the holocaust in the history books, because it might give Nazi's a bad name".

At 5/4/04 08:30 PM, MasterGooie wrote: Err, doesn't oil go "boom!" when you light it?

if its all burried underground many many meters below, then a carpet bomb would reach it. Anyways, you carpet bomb major cities, military sites, and of course hospitals, if you want to play dirty

At 5/5/04 09:25 AM, Veggiemeal wrote: I find it disgusting that some people here believe that this news shouldn't have gotten out. What the hell? It would cause more rage against the US? Well, here's a news flash: If you wouldn't torture people you wouldn't have to worry about negative news reports about you torturing people! God dammit, this is like saying "well, let's not put anything about the holocaust in the history books, because it might give Nazi's a bad name".

define "you".
in this case it is a bunch of soldiers, possibly under the guidance of hired mercenaries, who were acting autonomously.
america didn't do this, a few morons who shouldn't have been let into the army did it, but all americans will be tarred with the same brush.

your analogy is completely innacurate. it was the policy of the nazi party to gas the jews, and other "undesireable" races.
the abuse the iraqi prisoners suffered was not a part of the coalition/american procedures or methodology.

holocaust = intentional.
iraqis = minority of idiots.

your analogy is completely innacurate. it was the policy of the nazi party to gas the jews, and other "undesireable" races.
the abuse the iraqi prisoners suffered was not a part of the coalition/american procedures or methodology.

Actually it's fairly tame compared to previous US tactics, like Operation Phoenix. How exactly do you know that it isn't part of American procedures?

holocaust = intentional.
iraqis = minority of idiots.

Actually
Holocaust = intentional
Iraqis = intentional

Although I do have my suspicions about the Holocaust, haven't you ever left the gas on? Or accidently miswired something so water is coming out your cooker and gas out of your showers?

I just saw on BBC, one of the Soldiors accusing the Government, and Higher Officials, saying "They told us to do it". by 'it' I mean the torture.

I can't fid the articel though? Can anyone else get it?

At 5/5/04 02:30 PM, bombkangaroo wrote: in this case it is a bunch of soldiers, possibly under the guidance of hired mercenaries, who were acting autonomously.

None of our soldiers are ever under the command of the mercenaries. Our mercenaries act autonomously

At 5/5/04 06:13 PM, RedSkvnk wrote: None of our soldiers are ever under the command of the mercenaries. Our mercenaries act autonomously

Yeah, when was the last time that we had merc armys? huh?

He's right, we don't have them as leaders, or in the ranks.

according to what i've seen and read there were private military personel (mercenaries), working in advisory roles for the interrogators who may have been advocating the tortures that occured.

First of all, did anybody read the Pentagon Report about it? If you haven't, read it now. Anyone who still believes the explanation that it was 'a few soldiers acting on their own' is in for a very rude awakening.

Fact is, the torture and abuse was ordered by military and civilian investigators in direct violation of Army regulations that prohibit them from asking the MPs to do such things. Said MPs were undertrained, if trained at all, in the Army regulations about this or the applicable parts of the Geneva Convention. Some of the statements gathered from soldiers not directly involved in the most heinous abuses indicated an assumption that, since military intelligence was involved, the standard operating procedures were different.

Some quotes from the report:
"I witnessed prisoners in the MI hold section, wing 1A being made to do various things that I would question morally. In Wing 1A we were told that they had different rules and different SOP for treatment. I never saw a set of rules or SOP for that section just word of mouth. The Soldier in charge of 1A was Corporal Granier. He stated that the Agents and MI Soldiers would ask him to do things, but nothing was ever in writing he would complain (sic)."
"When asked why he did not inform his chain of command about this abuse, SGT Davis stated: ' Because I assumed that if they were doing things out of the ordinary or outside the guidelines, someone would have said something. Also the wing belongs to MI and it appeared MI personnel approved of the abuse.'"
"Formal charges under the UCMJ [Universal Code of Military Justice] were preferred against these Soldiers and an Article-32 Investigation conducted by LTC Gentry. He recommended a general court martial for the four accused, which BG Karpinski supported. Despite this documented abuse, there is no evidence that BG Karpinski ever attempted to remind 800th MP Soldiers of the requirements of the Geneva Conventions regarding detainee treatment or took any steps to ensure that such abuse was not repeated. Nor is there any evidence that LTC(P) Phillabaum, the commander of the Soldiers involved in the Camp Bucca abuse incident, took any initiative to ensure his Soldiers were properly trained regarding detainee treatment."

And the more you read, the more it becomes evident that this is hardly an 'isloated incident,' and that it's a policy of the Army's leadership to tacitly approve of prisoner abuse, while simultaneously making sure that the soldiers carrying out the abuse are blissfully unaware that what they are doing is in violation of Army regulations and the Geneva Convention. Which, incidentally, does not relieve the soldiers who actually performed the abuse of any responsibility for the crimes they've committed; but do you think they'd be as likely to carry out these acts if they were aware that what they were doing was in violation of Army regs and international law?

At 5/6/04 03:34 PM, MasterGooie wrote: Yeah, when was the last time that we had merc armys? huh?
He's right, we don't have them as leaders, or in the ranks.

We have tons of mercenaries in Iraq. And when I mean tons, I mean tens of thousands.

Although, technically they aren't our mercenaries. They're Haliburtons.

A lot of them have been retained by the military, as well. But they prefer the term PMF (Private Military Firm). In fact, Iraq has become a smorgasbord for PMFs, and there's more starting up every day trying to get in on the action while the money's good.

At 5/6/04 05:04 PM, Ben_Fox wrote: A lot of them have been retained by the military, as well.

Yes, true. I made a topic about it a bit ago, another real winner *angiery faise*

Feel free to bring it back if anyone wants to talk specifically about mercenaries now....

bush isnt responsible at all for this great thing......its rummy...bush didnt even know he got angry at him...........i got and idea why dont we just stretch everyone of those bastards and cut thier hearts out its a good thing

This hole thing is blown out of proportion. Yes, soldiers should be punished, yes, this sets a good example for the Iraqis that we take care of our own trash. We had a few bad apples and we are dealing with it in their best interest. Donald Rumesfield is being crucified by the News. The news is saying "Donald rumsfield-Scandle!" When they interview some one that says anything different, they are cut off imediatly. The news is on a which hunt. Suddenly everyone hates Rumsfield? Comon! The guy does a great job and is dealing with a ton of imposible missions. Bush is risking his presidency for standing up for him because he knows it's right. The media is who should be crucified. They are constanly telling us how we are supose to think.

As far as the Iraqi's, we take care of their mess and the are mad at us. I don't give a hoot if they loose inocent civilians. If they had taken care of their own problem we would not be loosing our soldiers. When we finally sort out their country they will be pissed at us because we are not bringing them truck loads of free cheese!!!! We are commited to this job and all the news wants to do is create trouble so they have something to report. They could care less how much damage they do, who it hurts, or what the outcome. The worse the better, the more to report. It is our fault for buying their papers and suporting their industry. They feed everyone crap and every one eats it like cake because comon man is too stupid to know better.

I WAS THRILLED TO SEE THAT WE WERE FINALLY DOING TO THEM WHAT THEY WOULD NOT HESITATE TO DO TO US. ARABS LIVE AND BREATHE A DIFFERENT STANDARD THAN AMERICANS AND WE NEED TO "FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE" TO COIN A PHRASE. THE FACT THAT IT WAS BROUGHT TO LIGHT SUCKS, I AGREE, BUT AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED IT DID NOT GO FAR ENOUGH. HAVE ANY OF YOU SEEN THE BEHEADING? THAT IS THE ARAB MENTALITY IN SPADES. CLICK (OR PASTE) THIS IF YOU ARE NOT TOO SQUEMISH OR YOU ARE REALLY INTERESTED IN WHAT THE ARABS ARE LIKE - http://www.stevemitton.com/terrorist-horror/iraq2vediom.wmv
IF YOU DON'T AGREE THAT THEY ARE ANIMALS AFTER VIEWING THIS, WELL GO BACK AND BURY YOUR HEAD IN THE SAND OR PLACE YOUR HEAD BETWEEN YOUR LEGS AND KISS YOUR SWEET A** GOODBYE!

At 5/13/04 02:59 PM, gem1 wrote: This hole thing is blown out of proportion. Yes, soldiers should be punished, yes, this sets a good example for the Iraqis that we take care of our own trash. We had a few bad apples and we are dealing with it in their best interest. Donald Rumesfield is being crucified by the News. The news is saying "Donald rumsfield-Scandle!" When they interview some one that says anything different, they are cut off imediatly. The news is on a which hunt. Suddenly everyone hates Rumsfield? Comon! The guy does a great job and is dealing with a ton of imposible missions. Bush is risking his presidency for standing up for him because he knows it's right. The media is who should be crucified. They are constanly telling us how we are supose to think.

Are you KIDDING me? Donald Rumsfeld is a fucking monster, and peole hated him LOOOONG before this happened. He is a condescending, arrogant bastard. He's a liar and a murderer. It didn't take us this far to figure that out.
As for Bush defending him, he has too, he's a puupet. For him to back down on Rumsfeld would appear to 'weak.'
Remember his daddy wasn't a real man, he 'pulled out.' little bushy will not make the same mistake

As far as the Iraqi's, we take care of their mess and the are mad at us. I don't give a hoot if they loose inocent civilians. If they had taken care of their own problem we would not be loosing our soldiers.

if we hadn't invaded their country we wouldn't be losing soldiers. if they hadn't fought back we wouldn't be losing our soldiers
besides, that's what soldiers do, they die. if you don't care about the lives of innocents, why do you care about the lives of butchers?

When we finally sort out their country they will be pissed at us because we are not bringing them truck loads of free cheese!!!! We are commited to this job and all the news wants to do is create trouble so they have something to report. They could care less how much damage they do, who it hurts, or what the outcome. The worse the better, the more to report. It is our fault for buying their papers and suporting their industry. They feed everyone crap and every one eats it like cake because comon man is too stupid to know better.

mmmmm cake!

I miss the days when all we had to worry about was a blow-job in the Oval Office. Some presidents get off on oral sex, some destroy other nations and fuck up years foreign policy to the point that we're looking at decades of hard times.

I think in war people stop being human. i believe the American soldiers are action like animals but my family disagrees they think calling them animals is an insult to the animals