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ToonBoom vs. Flash

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bastardofyoung
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ToonBoom vs. Flash 2011-09-20 00:50:06 Reply

I have just recently started getting serious about learning to animate. I've been learning on ToonBoom. Just hoping to hear from some more experienced animators on whether I should stick with TB, or start familiarizing myself with Flash.

DrunkenMonkey123
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Response to ToonBoom vs. Flash 2011-09-20 02:36:53 Reply

Well, I've never used ToonBoom, so I don't really know about that... but flash is great, and easy to use.


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sandwich-eater
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Response to ToonBoom vs. Flash 2011-09-20 05:44:15 Reply

Even though I've never used it, ToonBoom is better for animating.
It's been used for a lot of cartoon TV shows, and movies. Adam Phillips (brackenwood) says it's much better than flash.
From what I've seen it has a lot more cool features than flash and it's aimed purely at animation whereas flash is more programming.

So stick with it I guess.


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Emrox
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Response to ToonBoom vs. Flash 2011-09-20 07:00:40 Reply

At 9/20/11 05:44 AM, sandwich-eater wrote: Even though I've never used it, ToonBoom is better for animating.
It's been used for a lot of cartoon TV shows, and movies. Adam Phillips (brackenwood) says it's much better than flash.
From what I've seen it has a lot more cool features than flash and it's aimed purely at animation whereas flash is more programming.

So stick with it I guess.

Hmm, but flash has been used for a fair share of TV shows also, as it's far more automated. While toonboom is more about traditional animation, I think flash utilizes the capabilities of computer animation much more. Adam Phillips originally learned traditional animation, so I can understand why he'd pick a program better for his style, but when you're a tweenaholic like me, I'm afraid flash is the way to go.

Toonboom & flash is a bit more than just FBF vs Tween, though.


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Deadly-Shadow
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Response to ToonBoom vs. Flash 2011-09-20 14:06:51 Reply

I'm studying animation in college and so far the general consensus that I've heard is that Toon Boom is better for animation, but Flash is better for game making and web applications. I haven't really used Toon Boom very much, so right now I prefer Flash.


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bastardofyoung
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Response to ToonBoom vs. Flash 2011-09-20 15:30:58 Reply

Thanks everyone. I really appreciate the advice. I've had situations where I ask questions on here and people take it as an opportunity to try and make me feel like an ass for not knowing as much as them. And yeah, I am more interested in just animation, not so much in programming, so I believe I'll stick with ToonBoom. I was also wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of some decent tutorials to help me get a little more familiar with some animation basics.

MarkP0rter
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Response to ToonBoom vs. Flash 2011-09-21 19:28:19 Reply

well if you tell people you do animations with flash they will laugh at you unless you just do web animations. i know its sad and i know there are SOME tv programs that are indeed animated with flash (i think i know most of them) toonboom is THE pro choice.

having that said just wiki toonboom and look at all the famous and popular stuff you see on every day tv that is indeed animated with toonboom.

people i know who WORK in animation aka make a living with it use toonboom so you better learn it.

HELL I BETTER LEARN IT! ive bought a copy of toonboom and ive to admit im too stupid for it. so far it seems complicated so if you know how to use it thats pretty cool already and should get you far.

understanding a complex program is better than well just knowing flash which doesnt require much knowledge if its just for animation.

so seriously STICK with toon boom. its pretty easy to pick up flash afterwards if you still feel like it. nowadays there is no real point in flash anymore with video sites like youtube. just make your animations and put them there.

i hope that helps.

MarkP0rter
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Response to ToonBoom vs. Flash 2011-09-21 19:31:30 Reply

At 9/20/11 03:30 PM, bastardofyoung wrote: Thanks everyone. I really appreciate the advice. I've had situations where I ask questions on here and people take it as an opportunity to try and make me feel like an ass for not knowing as much as them. And yeah, I am more interested in just animation, not so much in programming, so I believe I'll stick with ToonBoom. I was also wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of some decent tutorials to help me get a little more familiar with some animation basics.

go to amazon. there are a bunch of really good animation books. i mean it: BUY A BOOK.

if you only buy ONE book (and thats really all you need: buy richard williams "the animators survival kit"
its basically THE book any animator has and it covers everything you need to know. buy it, study it and youve got all you need.

bastardofyoung
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Response to ToonBoom vs. Flash 2011-09-23 18:49:44 Reply

Yeah, I actually just recently got a copy of The Animator's Survival Kit, and it has already helped me tremendously. much thanks for the advice.

VividGrey
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Response to ToonBoom vs. Flash 2011-09-25 03:21:20 Reply

Yeah, Toonboom is an excellent program and is much better suited for traditional animation. Also, I believe the student version is quite cheap. I do agree that flash is more automated, however if you ever find yourself in a situation where you are required to use flash(ie. a school situation), all the traditional stuff is there like onion skinning, layers, timelines, and so on.

As far as books go, I would suggest, as MarkP0rter said above, the Animators Survival Kit. Also, I would HIGHLY suggest you get a Eadweard Muybridge book. He was a photographer at the end of the 19th century, and he photographed the human body in motion as well as animals in motion. It is basically the best realistic walk cycle and movement reference in existence, and is a must if you want to study human and/or animal movement. Anyway, I hope this helps.

VividGrey
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Response to ToonBoom vs. Flash 2011-09-25 03:33:15 Reply

Oh, I almost forgot. The holy grail of old school animation. The book "Animation by Preston Blair" is also a very important book. I'm not sure if you can buy the actual "real" version of the book anymore, but it has been republished by a company called: Walter Foster. It is now called "Cartooning: Animation 1 with Preston Blair," but it is exactly the same thing. This is the book that John Kricfalusi swears by. Also, speaking of John K, johnkstuff.blogspot.com is an awesome resource for all animators. Lastly, http://classiccartoons.blogspot.com/ is a good reference if your interested in old cartoons, and http://klangley.blogspot.com/ is a good resource for old cartoon model sheets and other great stuff.

Markface
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Response to ToonBoom vs. Flash 2011-09-25 06:45:21 Reply

I've been meaning to pick up ToonBoom for a while. I might do so quite soon.

But yeah, it looks the better sole animation program. Flash is an amazing product, especially for game design, but for animation, go with ToonBoom.

I mean, look at the movies that were made with it...

The Lion King II: Simba's Pride (1998)
Doug's 1st Movie (1999)
Mickey's Once Upon a Christmas (1999)
The Tigger Movie (2000)
An Extremely Goofy Movie (2000)
The Little Mermaid II: Return to the Sea (2000)
Recess: School's Out (2001)
Lady and the Tramp II: Scamp's Adventure (2001)
Return to Never Land (2002)
Cinderella II: Dreams Come True (2002)
The Hunchback of Notre Dame II (2002)
Tarzan & Jane (2002)
Winnie the Pooh: A Very Merry Pooh Year (2002)
101 Dalmatians II: Patch's London Adventure (2003)
The Jungle Book 2 (2003)
Piglet's Big Movie (2003)
Atlantis: Milo's Return (2003)
Stitch! The Movie (2003)
Teacher's Pet (2004)
The Lion King 1½ (2004)
Winnie the Pooh: Springtime with Roo (2004)
Mickey, Donald, Goofy: The Three Musketeers (2004)
Mulan II (2005)
Pooh's Heffalump Movie (2005)
Tarzan II (2005)
Lilo & Stitch 2: Stitch Has a Glitch (2005)
Pooh's Heffalump Halloween Movie (2005)
Kronk's New Groove (2005)
Bambi II (2006)
Leroy & Stitch (2006)
Brother Bear 2 (2006)
The Fox and the Hound 2 (2006)
Cinderella III: A Twist in Time (2007)
Disney Princess Enchanted Tales: Follow Your Dreams (2007)
The Little Mermaid III: Ariel's Beginning (2008)
Phineas and Ferb: Across the 2nd Dimension (2011)
The Lion King (1994, "Morning Report" sequence in Special Edition)
Home on the Range (2004)
The Princess and the Frog (2009)
Winnie the Pooh (2011)
The Rugrats Movie (1998)
Rugrats in Paris: The Movie (2000)
Hey Arnold!: The Movie (2002)
The Wild Thornberrys Movie (2002)
Rugrats Go Wild (2003)
The SpongeBob SquarePants Movie (2004)
Space Jam (1996)
Quest for Camelot (1998)
The Iron Giant (1999)
Osmosis Jones (2001)
Looney Tunes: Back in Action (2003)
The Looney Tunes Show (2011)
Curious George (2006)
Curious George 2: Follow That Monkey! (2009)
The Simpsons Movie (2007)

TV:

6Teen
American Dad!
bro'Town
Caillou
Curious George
D'Myna Leagues
Dave The Barbarian
Dick Figures
Di-Gata Defenders
Family Guy
Galactik Football
Gerald McBoing Boing
Geronimo Stilton
Grossology
Happy Tree Friends
Jimmy Two Shoes
Juanito Jones
Kim Possible
King of the Hill
Miniman
Mischief City
Monstories
Mr Baby
Neighbors from Hell
Phineas and Ferb
Robot Boy
Ruby Gloom
Santa Apprentice
SpongeBob SquarePants
The Cleveland Show
The Fairly OddParents
The Large Family
The Simpsons
The Three Baby Triplets
Toot and Puddle
Weird Years
Wilbur
Willa's World
Yvon of the Yukon
Zombie Hotel


[;];=]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]

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chluaid
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Response to ToonBoom vs. Flash 2011-09-26 01:16:16 Reply

Toonboom software is created 100% for animators. Flash however is created about 15% for animators and in my honest opinion, Adobe don't seem to really care about what we need. Adobe's Flash focus is on application development.

If you're not tied to the SWF format then definitely start off with Toonboom Animate 2. If you need help getting started, grab the free PLE (personal learning edition), it never expires. Then watch my intro videos to give you an idea of how to do simple stuff like drawing, painting and moving things around.

stretch1one
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Response to ToonBoom vs. Flash 2011-09-26 02:17:44 Reply

I don't think the program is as significant as the person behind it. I'm familiar with flash, so that's what I use to animate with, I've become more interested in games lately so it works out perfectly. If your that concerned about it pick up a trial copy of flash to test drive, but I think you should focus more on honing your skills in animation with some of the great resources mentioned above. That being said, different programs have different utility, and I often toss files back and forth between photoshop and illustrator so maybe there something in flash your missing out on. Like I said, pick up a trial, flash might offer something that makes some aspect of animation easier for you, the question from there is whether or not the files are compatible between the programs.


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stretch1one
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Response to ToonBoom vs. Flash 2011-09-26 02:19:33 Reply

tv quality animation done in flash i found on another forum http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCxPEB-uu 20


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chluaid
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Response to ToonBoom vs. Flash 2011-09-26 19:57:19 Reply

At 9/26/11 02:19 AM, stretch1one wrote: tv quality animation done in flash i found on another forum http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCxPEB-uu 20

wow, that's actually pretty good!

PBass
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Response to ToonBoom vs. Flash 2011-09-26 20:38:00 Reply

At 9/26/11 07:57 PM, chluaid wrote:
At 9/26/11 02:19 AM, stretch1one wrote: tv quality animation done in flash i found on another forum http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCxPEB-uu 20
wow, that's actually pretty good!

Hahaha, speak of the devil,

I like how the youtube version was linked


"Animation is not the art of drawings that move, but the art of movements that are drawn." -Norman McLaren

chluaid
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Response to ToonBoom vs. Flash 2011-09-27 00:51:28 Reply

lol yeah, NG sponsored it, so I wonder if it's in the Portal somewhere (??)

nathanielmilburn
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Response to ToonBoom vs. Flash 2011-09-27 11:59:51 Reply

just learn both, won't hurt, they're both used in the industry, just depends on what the show needs.

that way you'll have a step up from other animators that only know one and a studio will probably hire you over the other if you're more well rounded.

FlyingNinjaBannanas
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Response to ToonBoom vs. Flash 2011-09-28 18:10:30 Reply

At 9/28/11 06:55 AM, bilalz wrote:
At 9/26/11 07:57 PM, chluaid wrote:
At 9/26/11 02:19 AM, stretch1one wrote: tv quality animation done in flash i found on another forum http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCxPEB-uu 20
wow, that's actually pretty good!
i wonder if that guy has a newgrounds account.

Ask and you shall receive.


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PeterSatera
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Response to ToonBoom vs. Flash 2011-09-28 18:21:51 Reply

Ive used flash for a decade, TBStudio and animate pro.

TB wins everytime, its also what we used in the studios. If you can get the better version though, TBStudio has a 3 frame limit onion skin which is really it's only major flaw over flash.


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Lugen
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Response to ToonBoom vs. Flash 2011-09-29 04:59:58 Reply

This helps a lot. Might as well try ToonBoom.


There are things I do and there are things I want to do. Overall, I just want to live my life and end it the way I want.

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Joeylicious
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Response to ToonBoom vs. Flash 2011-10-08 10:45:16 Reply

At 9/25/11 06:45 AM, Markface wrote: TV:
American Dad!
Family Guy
The Cleveland Show

Nah that's a lie.
Everyone knows Seth McShitfuck makes his travesties in Go!Animate.

ArtyomL
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Response to ToonBoom vs. Flash 2011-10-09 15:35:30 Reply

I tried ToonBoom once, but I'm too used to Flash, so I was like no thanks. I knew that Disney were using TB for their animations, but I know for a FACT that The Simpsons are hand-drawn.

Wikipedia lies.

But after reading all this, I might reconsider and give TB another go.


I need a new sig that fits the new design, but I am too lazy.

Emrox
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Response to ToonBoom vs. Flash 2011-10-09 18:47:42 Reply

As long as we're doing lists, check this one out:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Ma in/AdobeFlash

(scroll down a bit)


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turtleco
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Response to ToonBoom vs. Flash 2011-10-09 19:28:00 Reply

At 9/26/11 07:57 PM, chluaid wrote:
At 9/26/11 02:19 AM, stretch1one wrote: tv quality animation done in flash i found on another forum http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCxPEB-uu 20
wow, that's actually pretty good!

its okay I guess

doesn't have Mario though


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pistolstudios
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Response to ToonBoom vs. Flash 2013-12-12 18:49:36 Reply

At 9/25/11 11:20 AM, BilalZ wrote: depends on which ToonBoom we are talking about. ToonBoom Studio is nothing compared to flash, ToonBoom animate is equally good and Animate Pro is a lot better and of course more expensive.

You obviously haven't used toon boom studio before. I'd say toon boom studio is equal to flash, animate is better than flash, animate pro is way better than flash.