At 9/27/11 07:51 PM, DingoTheDog wrote:
This is a repetition of the same non-argument, the fact other things in history have resulted in mass murder doesnt in any way absolve the mass murder
That's a straw man, buddy, that wasn't my argument. My argument is that your argument that it "caused" murder simply because it was invoked to justify it is flawed. If I were to kill someone and say it was in your name, that wouldn't mean you caused the murder.
Its also a worthy point in the case of communism (all be it your "opiates of the masses" would indicate that you are already completely aware of this that then begs the question of what is your actual stance?) is that most communist states justify there actions through association with god
Um, no they don't. You're flat out wrong.
The Soviet Union had atheism as state policy. It was politically and personally dangerous to be openly religious for a very long time. There was loads of state-sponsored atheist propaganda, even in schools.
Communist China is a catholic country
Hahahahaha what? Where did you hear this nonsense? They've never been a Catholic country, they were/are primarily Buddhist and Confucianist if anything, but the state itself is clearly and emphatically Atheist
In the People's Republic of China under Mao they flat-out told people to become atheist, and actually sought actively to stamp out religion in many cases. The Khmer Rouge outlawed all religions and killed loads and loads of people for being religious. Cuba nationalized all religious properties and declared itself an atheist state.
- North Korea is a totalitarian communist state and a theocracy (also a democratic peoples republic...nahahahaha!) in the sense they have an eternal father; they have managed to associate the regime with having heavenly approval.
Yeah but they don't believe in "God", they believe in the greatness of Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il in the Juche ideal. They're dogmatic atheists, but definitely atheists.
I dont think pointing out that the Bible is a contradictory, historically inaccurate and morally questionable text which is not a healthy basis for a government is a logic that can be equally applied to secular examples.
Um that's not what my argument was at all. I said "broad generalization and association fallacies."
Though I suppose this technically counts as those too because, as I said earlier, I'm not just talking about the Bible and never have been.
Pointing out examples of secular government that has ended in disaster is a non-argument as it doesnt remove the major flaws of a theocracy - and I'm sure we could play a redundant game of back and forth on the matter.
Yeah and that wasn't my argument either. I was saying your argument assumes an inherent flaw in one without considering or applying the logic of the other.
You are saying Theocracy is inherently flawed because of these examples you associate it with of injustice in the name of religion. I am saying that's as unfair as saying that all secular policy is inherently flawed because of its association with abuses by secular states.
You aren't really saying "Here are the flaws in the system and why" because you're not even really talking about one system, you're making a broad generalization of all theologically based institutions without due consideration of the relevant facts.