Irene vs Washington DC

[AcetheSuperVillain]

There's a category 3 hurricane barreling towards the US East Coast named Irene (hurricanes go up to category 5). Last I heard, it's expected to hit North Carolina, which for non-geography buffs is about 1 state or maybe 300km away from the nation's capital, Washington DC. Katrina was also category 3 as it hit Lousiana, and if that kind of destruction hits DC, it is going to be a massive cluster fuck.

I don't know about you guys, but after the basically failed debt crisis and freak once-per-century earthquake, this is looking to me like classic bad omens. Portents of doom like quakes and storms have often played the prelude to changes in leadership. Could we be witnessing the end of the US Government or at least the Democratic and Republican parties?

If you don't know where I'm coming from with this, check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandate_of_
Heaven
According this theory, Heaven or Fate decides who should rule nations, and gives the righteous the opportunity to take control. But, when the rulers stop ruling justly, Heaven sends natural disasters and rebellions to overthrow them. I am open to the idea that Heaven has nothing to do with it; that when people get tired of ineffective rulers and then pushed over the edge by the forces of nature, but that still means the Mandate of Heaven effect is still real and might be about to happen to the USA.

I'm saying it now so I can say "I told you so" when it really happens.

[boney-man]

At 8/26/11 01:22 AM, AcetheSuperVillain wrote: I don't know about you guys, but after the basically failed debt crisis and freak once-per-century earthquake, this is looking to me like classic bad omens. Portents of doom like quakes and storms have often played the prelude to changes in leadership. Could we be witnessing the end of the US Government or at least the Democratic and Republican parties?

Alright we haven't had the best of luck but I'd be willing to say it's not the end of the world (or the USA). Just because there's a recession, an earthquake, and soon a hurricane (which is not forecasted to make landfall in Washington DC) doesn't mean the government is going to collapse.

[AcetheSuperVillain]

At 8/26/11 01:52 AM, boney-man wrote: Alright we haven't had the best of luck but I'd be willing to say it's not the end of the world (or the USA). Just because there's a recession, an earthquake, and soon a hurricane (which is not forecasted to make landfall in Washington DC) doesn't mean the government is going to collapse.

No, but it's not a goodsign either.

[Iron-Hampster]

hypothetically, if it were really the case of divine intervention, then only a just god would ensure that it works in favor of good people and that all the good people would benefit.

but i don't think the forecast can say that hurricane hates rapists and murders but intends to donate half of the money if picks up off the ground to charity now can it?

[AcetheSuperVillain]

At 8/26/11 02:46 AM, Iron-Hampster wrote: hypothetically, if it were really the case of divine intervention, then only a just god would ensure that it works in favor of good people and that all the good people would benefit.

but i don't think the forecast can say that hurricane hates rapists and murders but intends to donate half of the money if picks up off the ground to charity now can it?

You're in for an uphill battle if you're going to argue that any system of deities doesn't get angry and shoot up the Earth and their own followers with giant storms and other natural disasters. And like I said, hurricane itself is a bad omen, not the Hand of Fate. Like a "stop fucking around or I'll break your necks" kinda message.

[orangebomb]

So, judging by what the OP is saying, it's a divine punishment for Washington D.C. for the debt crisis and all the other good stuff they have done over the last x number of years.

I'm sorry, but the earthquake and the incoming hurricane is nothing more than coincidences, not any type of divine punishment. You're either a religious nut, or you're just pulling our legs.

[TheStorkCollector]

I'm going to be hit by this storm. I have never experienced one before. As for Washington DC, I don't believe the destruction will be remotely close to Katrina, but we'll see in a couple of days.

[AcetheSuperVillain]

At 8/26/11 11:24 AM, orangebomb wrote: So, judging by what the OP is saying, it's a divine punishment for Washington D.C. for the debt crisis and all the other good stuff they have done over the last x number of years.

I'm sorry, but the earthquake and the incoming hurricane is nothing more than coincidences, not any type of divine punishment. You're either a religious nut, or you're just pulling our legs.

Now you're just putting words in my mouth. What I'm saying is that bad omens precede drastic changes in leadership when leadership is already flopping. The generally accepted reason behind this phenomenon is that Heaven/Fate/The Gods/All Powerful Atheismo sends these warnings to tell the leaders/people to get their acts together.

Congress has less than 20% approval rating. Whether forces unseen have sent the omens as punishment or not is irrelevant; they will stile rile people up and further weaken the rite of leadership. What I've been trying to say is that the Mandate of Heaven effect is real, even if Heaven itself has nothing to do with it.

@TheStorkCollector: Hurricanes are pretty fierce. I've been near a couple, and even when you're 100s of miles away, you can still get pretty violent winds and flooding. Wind is a big concern if you're in the thick of it, but water damage and flooding are the primary weapons of the hurricane. Obey all evacuation warnings and plan out a route to reach higher ground in case you have to.

[Halberd]

This is an absolute fucking tragedy

I'm worried the world just won't pull through with this

I mean just 9/11 itself did enough damage to the world and fucked up things so much for the world

[Dawnslayer]

It'll be okay. The city is protected with Masonic sigils.

[AcetheSuperVillain]

I've just heard Irene is making landfall in North Carolina. I wish you all as much luck as you can get, and again, please follow all evacuation orders and stay as safe as you can.

I've also been keeping up with the path of the hurricane, and it looks like it's about to do the worst possible thing a hurricane can do: hug the coast. Hurricanes are basically fueled by warm water. When they're over water, they get bigger; when they're over land, they shrink. By keeping one foot in the water and one on land, Irene is going to vastly increase its life expectancy and be able to damage the largest area of human habitation possible.

Looking at it now, Irene may be a little too far east to hit DC with its full force, but the Chesapeake Bay area, New Jersey, New York City and Massachusetts (Boston) are all expected to be hit by Hurricane force storm, and even eastern Canada will see some action as it dies down to Tropical Storm levels.

Check weather.com (The WeatherChannel) for constant updates. If you've never lived in a Hurricane zone, I encourage you to take a look at some of the live feeds. Hurricanes are a helluva thing.

[Mr-Shark]

I hope it drowns the white house.

[TheStorkCollector]

At 8/27/11 12:51 PM, Mr-Shark wrote: I hope it drowns the white house.

I hope it drowns your family

[AcetheSuperVillain]

At 8/27/11 04:17 PM, TheStorkCollector wrote:

At 8/27/11 12:51 PM, Mr-Shark wrote: I hope it drowns the white house.

I hope it drowns your family

Glad to hear you're still alive

[Camarohusky]

God forbid a second chair will fall over...

Just kidding. Hope all is well tomorrow morning.

[SolInvictus]

i'm not impressed by your earthquake, nor your hurricane. if this is an indication of the gods' will, i'm thoroughly disappointed by your deities.

Washington is above sea level; thinking anything like Katrina can happen there seems a little ridiculous.
... that's not to say those on the coast needn't be worried (or along the Potomac).

[ArmorGrounds]

Hurricane Irene say hello to Obama for me will yea

[Proteas]

At 8/26/11 01:22 AM, AcetheSuperVillain wrote: I'm saying it now so I can say "I told you so" when it really happens.

Random question, feel free to ignore me for asking it... but if the Mandate of Heaven was going to make BIG changes in Washington, wouldn't it have done it before now? Or say, at any point in our 200+ existence as a nation? Why do you think it's going to happen NOW because of Irene?

[SolInvictus]

i had a chuckle at Irene's expense, i paid the price by having to work outside yesterday.

sideways rain; your pants are fucked.

[djack]

At 8/28/11 02:51 PM, Proteas wrote:

At 8/26/11 01:22 AM, AcetheSuperVillain wrote: I'm saying it now so I can say "I told you so" when it really happens.

Random question, feel free to ignore me for asking it... but if the Mandate of Heaven was going to make BIG changes in Washington, wouldn't it have done it before now? Or say, at any point in our 200+ existence as a nation? Why do you think it's going to happen NOW because of Irene?

Because it's only been in recent years that support for our government has truly dropped to the point where it makes sense to replace our current leaders. People often view disasters as a sign that they need to act, in this case the recent series of natural disasters in the DC area will likely bring public attention to exactly how much they dislike the government and encourage them to enact change.

[SolInvictus]

At 8/29/11 01:05 PM, djack wrote: People often view disasters as a sign that they need to act, in this case the recent series of natural disasters in the DC area will likely bring public attention to exactly how much they dislike the government and encourage them to enact change.

this makes sense; humans are reactionary.
the mandate of heaven does not, mainly because Europe and the West had no such doctrine (the divine right of kings meant you could never, ever, fuck with the king). also, we have don't have any ruling monarchs or unassailable statesmen.

also, why listen to the gods?

[Gustavos]

Yes, God wants to save society by destroying it.

[ArmorGrounds]

hurricane irene didnt do anything major except causing flooding and major rain fall

[aviewaskewed]

At 8/26/11 03:10 PM, AcetheSuperVillain wrote: Now you're just putting words in my mouth.

Not really. When you start talking about "omens" and "portents" then trot out Mandate of Heaven. I think it's quite reasonable to draw the conclusion that you are a strongly religious person who believes the divine impacts and regulates human life.

What I'm saying is that bad omens precede drastic changes in leadership when leadership is already flopping.

Like when? It's all fine and good to say this but examples go a long way towards actually helping the point. Right now I just see you expressing a thought you haven't really backed.

The generally accepted reason behind this phenomenon is that Heaven/Fate/The Gods/All Powerful Atheismo sends these warnings to tell the leaders/people to get their acts together.

Generally accepted? By who? The religious? Churches? I don't think anyone outside those communities believes earthquakes, hurricanes, or fiscal policy not working the way one hopes is a sign that some divine force is pissed off and forcing change.

Congress has less than 20% approval rating.

Right, because Congress is being seen by the public to not be meeting their needs or doing what they promised to do. Oh look! A perfectly reasonable explanation!

Whether forces unseen have sent the omens as punishment or not is irrelevant;

No, it's VERY relevant if your going to try and put forth the claim that these things are "omens" and are sign of some divine intelligence going forward to force change. Your whole damn OP relies on it in fact.

they will stile rile people up and further weaken the rite of leadership.

Or maybe people will just do what they traditionally do: Vote for whoever runs against the incumbent in the next election. I think that seems way more plausible then any sort of uprising or revolution.

What I've been trying to say is that the Mandate of Heaven effect is real,

With absolutely no proof. None. But I guess that's something you just don't need if you believe hard enough right?

[Proteas]

At 8/29/11 01:05 PM, djack wrote: Because it's only been in recent years that support for our government has truly dropped to the point where it makes sense to replace our current leaders. People often view disasters as a sign that they need to act, in this case the recent series of natural disasters in the DC area will likely bring public attention to exactly how much they dislike the government and encourage them to enact change.

"Recent series" of natural disasters? What other natural disaster did I miss?

And if a natural disaster was going to shape who runs our country, why didn't this mandate come into play during Hurricane Katrina, are far more devastating natural disaster?

[djack]

At 8/31/11 10:09 AM, Proteas wrote:

At 8/29/11 01:05 PM, djack wrote: Because it's only been in recent years that support for our government has truly dropped to the point where it makes sense to replace our current leaders. People often view disasters as a sign that they need to act, in this case the recent series of natural disasters in the DC area will likely bring public attention to exactly how much they dislike the government and encourage them to enact change.

"Recent series" of natural disasters? What other natural disaster did I miss?

A once in a century earthquake and a hurricane aren't enough for you? Multiple disasters in short succession seems to fit the definition of a series to me. I suppose if you wait though there may still be more to come if that will satisfy you as being a series.

And if a natural disaster was going to shape who runs our country, why didn't this mandate come into play during Hurricane Katrina, are far more devastating natural disaster?

Government support was still relatively high, partially from the post 9/11 mentality that "terrorists are out to get us so we need to be strong and rely on our government to do the right thing". Plus Katrina occurred in Louisiana, recent events have been occurring on the east coast centered around the D.C. area which will draw peoples attention directly to the government rather than to giving aid to those affected.

[Proteas]

At 8/31/11 10:17 AM, djack wrote: A once in a century earthquake and a hurricane aren't enough for you?

You're cracked if you consider either of these events major disasters, and arguing that they are a "series" is a stretch in terms and you know it.

Plus Katrina occurred in Louisiana, recent events have been occurring on the east coast centered around the D.C. area which will draw peoples attention directly to the government rather than to giving aid to those affected.

"George W. Bush hates black people" ring a bell?

[SteveGuzzi]

are you sure it's cuz of the government? cuz the last outspoken religious folk i heard from said that natural disasters happen because the ruler of the universe hates gay people. i mean, i don't know, the both of you make such compelling arguments.

[djack]

At 8/31/11 08:41 PM, Proteas wrote:

At 8/31/11 10:17 AM, djack wrote: A once in a century earthquake and a hurricane aren't enough for you?

You're cracked if you consider either of these events major disasters, and arguing that they are a "series" is a stretch in terms and you know it.

Well, I'm sorry if I didn't take the time to thoroughly elaborate that there were multiple recent natural disasters in a brief post on an internet forum. Clearly I need to take time to spell every little detail out word for word so that you can understand me. Also, at what point did I ever call them major disasters? It doesn't take a major disaster to get peoples attention. The very fact that they weren't major just means that there aren't a bunch of victims for people to obsess over which means that their attention is more likely to be brought to the government.

Plus Katrina occurred in Louisiana, recent events have been occurring on the east coast centered around the D.C. area which will draw peoples attention directly to the government rather than to giving aid to those affected.

"George W. Bush hates black people" ring a bell?

Does FEMA's major fuck up ring a bell for you? If not, how about the massive industrialization projects that worsened the effects Katrina? Not to mention the entire war on terror that saturated every aspect of the Bush administration whether it belonged there or not.

[Proteas]

At 8/31/11 11:23 PM, djack wrote: Well, I'm sorry if I didn't take the time to thoroughly elaborate that there were multiple recent natural disasters in a brief post on an internet forum. Clearly I need to take time to spell every little detail out word for word so that you can understand me.

Or, the other "disaster" of which you spoke of was so insignificant that it wasn't on my mind, much less anyone else.

I wish I could find the newsradio clip where a guy in california called dc's 5.9 earthquake "no worse than my phone going off on vibrate." Or, I could always just point to the joke groups that have popped up on facebook about it. Either way, it was a non-event, one which leaves you one "disaster" short of a "series" since people are no longer focused on it.

Also, at what point did I ever call them major disasters? It doesn't take a major disaster to get peoples attention.

And people tend to not pay attention to minor ones, so where does that leave you?

The very fact that they weren't major just means that there aren't a bunch of victims for people to obsess over which means that their attention is more likely to be brought to the government.

What negative attention has been brought to the government in any of this? Or are you one of those types who follows in magical thinking and expects anarchy in the streets every time the wind blows a little to strongly?

Does FEMA's major fuck up ring a bell for you? If not, how about the massive industrialization projects that worsened the effects Katrina? Not to mention the entire war on terror that saturated every aspect of the Bush administration whether it belonged there or not.

And yet, at no point did anyone "rise up" and take notice of the mandate of heaven and make any effort to replace the government in charge, yet you expect people to all of the sudden get up NOW and change the government?

You're either terribly naive or foolish to a point that science cannot yet quantify, I'm not sure just yet.