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Anarchist Federation

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Iron-Hampster
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Response to Anarchist Federation Aug. 1st, 2011 @ 12:16 PM Reply

theres no chance people aren't going to group up and form gangs or tribes, heck some will probably start another civilization.

this "anarchist" stuff is more about people saying "we would rather live in a world where everyone is in it for themselves than this shitty one" and I actually agree with the sense that what is going on now is madness. People in Somalia revolted and over threw a dictatorship without anything to take its place, the result is lawlessness, warlords, gangs, piracy, etc. Yet, some now i cant see myself choosing the dictator over that.


ya hear about the guy who put his condom on backwards? He went.

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psycho-squirrel
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Response to Anarchist Federation Aug. 1st, 2011 @ 02:07 PM Reply

Check out the Vancouver riot. That was anarchy.


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WizMystery
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Response to Anarchist Federation Aug. 1st, 2011 @ 02:29 PM Reply

At 8/1/11 07:51 AM, Confucianism wrote: An anarchist society is governed by small, highly decentralized communes. There are no real "leaders", but there are elected delegates who can be recalled at any time by popular vote. Societies basic functions are handled by community institutions.

So it's basically like a tribal system? Would these "tribes" be isolated from one another?

No, libertarianism is not part of anarchism, many people think this. [ETC]

I see. But anarchists want freedom, right? The whole idea behind libertarianism is stopping people from taking control of one another, so in a sense wouldn't that be better? I mean anarchy is really relying on every single person in the world not to become evil and control everyone. A Libertarian government would stop that from happening outright.

Iron-Hampster
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Response to Anarchist Federation Aug. 1st, 2011 @ 04:33 PM Reply

At 8/1/11 02:07 PM, psycho-squirrel wrote: Check out the Vancouver riot. That was anarchy.

if it were anarchy there would have been no police, only vigilantes.

(i think we had a few of those too though)


ya hear about the guy who put his condom on backwards? He went.

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SmilezRoyale
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Response to Anarchist Federation Aug. 1st, 2011 @ 10:52 PM Reply

You're not going to convince people to abandon their states. [at least not in favor of 'no state'] There are too many things that are directly or indirectly controlled by them. The best you can do is argue for the superiority of non-state solutions to problems piecemeal, on issues where people's attentions are focused and arguments cannot as easily be won by backpedaling from police to defense to roads to regulations to law to welfare to education and back to police again.

You also have a status quo problem. All someone has to do is make two observations

1. That there appears to be a general progress in western society in terms of technology, medicine, and 'economic growth', that has been going on for at least two centuries. Albiet this progress has not been continuous or even across all metrics.

2. There are these things called States, they exist and in most western countries over the last century-and-a-half their power and influence over the lives of their citizens has expanded into previously untouched, or previously non-existent areas.

And they can readily conclude that the former *effect* is brought about by the the latter *cause*.

And for an understandably legitimate reason, even if they don't go as far as to make the prior conclusion that expansion of the state is essential to progress, they'll be hesitant to make any broad and radical change so long as things are ostensibly improving. I say understandable because from their perspective, which is shared and enforced by nearly everyone around them, the bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.


On a moving train there are no centrists, only radicals and reactionaries.

Bantun
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Response to Anarchist Federation Aug. 8th, 2011 @ 02:10 PM Reply

At 7/30/11 10:07 AM, Confucianism said

If you are an Anarchist or are interested in the ideals and principles of Anarchy then this is the place to go.

This will be interesting.
Count me in.

Confucianism
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Response to Anarchist Federation Aug. 8th, 2011 @ 04:01 PM Reply

At 8/8/11 02:10 PM, Bantun wrote: This will be interesting.
Count me in.

Wow, its been a while.


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Markface
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Response to Anarchist Federation Aug. 8th, 2011 @ 05:16 PM Reply

But what do you do when you realise the majority of the world wants a rationalised and normal world, the way it is now?

What do you do when you realise all your anarchy gets absolutely nowhere?


[;];=]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]

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Bantun
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Response to Anarchist Federation Aug. 8th, 2011 @ 07:23 PM Reply

At 8/8/11 04:01 PM, Confucianism wrote:
At 8/8/11 02:10 PM, Bantun wrote: This will be interesting.
Count me in.
Wow, its been a while.

Have we met in the past?

Deadclever23
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Response to Anarchist Federation Aug. 8th, 2011 @ 07:35 PM Reply

I may be being stupid here but 2 things.

1) Freedom doesn't make people happy. Just because someone has freedom does not mean they will use it effectively, in fact they are more likely to destroy themselves. People like to know that someone is above them, taking the fire. It lets people sleep better at night, rather than worrying if someone may kill you or how you're going to get your food...etc. Someone does not have a richer life just because they can make more choices.
2) People are afraid of true freedom. They have to have lots of responsibility, lots more hard decisions, lots of repercussions for their mistakes. People would rather have something to moan about, some sort of imaginary dark power which oppresses them, something they can do nothing about. If it was not so, people would revolt far more often than they do. People often have to be really pushed to have full revolutions, the tipping point is quite far.


"To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all."
- Oscar Wilde

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orangebomb
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Response to Anarchist Federation Aug. 8th, 2011 @ 11:52 PM Reply

At 8/1/11 07:33 AM, Confucianism wrote:
At 7/31/11 11:26 PM, camobch0 wrote:
Yet again you are another person who does not know much about the subject in hand, and no Im not some 14/15 year old kid. "Destroying the laws and police forces and armies doesn't bringing us closer to freedom, it actually tears us farther from it."

So in other words, you would simply allow others to rob, rape and steal from whoever on the streets while they please while vigilantes would come in and possibly make it more worse. Yeah, I don't want to live in that type of society, especially if there are no rules that say criminal behavior is a no-no.

This is a very ignorant thing to say indeed. "Anarchism has but one infallible, unchangeable motto, 'Freedom.' Freedom to discover any truth, freedom to develop, to live naturally and fully." »» Lucy Parsons.

I have no idea who the fuck is Lucy Parsons, maybe come up with a link about said person, because most people here haven't ever heard of her until now. And besides, in a pure anarchist state, even hardcore bigots and criminals can do whatever they want, which starts a cycle of revenge that just keeps going and going.

You give up your freedom for the safety that the government promises you. In reality what are these Governments, without which people think they could not exist?

You're repeating what you have been saying, that's not good if you're trying to convince people to join your cause, especially if everyone keeps shooting down your arguments.

There may have been a time when such goverments were necessary, and when the evil of supporting a Government was less than that of being defenceless against organized neighbours, but now such Governments have become unnecessary, and are a far greater evil than all the dangers with which they frighten their subjects. Not only military Governments, but Governments in general, could be, I will not say usefull, but at least harmless, only if they consisted of imaculate, holy people, as is theoretically the case among the Chinese 100 years ago. But then Governments, by nature of their activity, which consist in commiting acts of violence, are always composed of elements the most contrary of holiness - of the most audacious, unscupulous and perverted people. A Government, therefore, and especially a Government entrusted with military power, is the most dangerous organization possible.

So judging by the big ass wall of text here, you're suggesting that all government and capitalism should be destroyed for more or less, Human Nature? Yeah, nothing says freedom and peace like almost everyone armed to the teeth with whatever they have, and having free will to blast people and loot whatever they feel like, almost to a point where it's almost like Mad Max world, except without a nuclear war.

In short, anarchy would only encourage more violence and war, because there is no way to control people from doing violent acts and getting away with it. There is a reason why humans are no strangers to war, and we have laws and rules {no matter how loose or trivial some may be} to make sure we don't wipe each other off the planet.


Just stop worrying, and love the bomb.

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Camarohusky
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Response to Anarchist Federation Aug. 8th, 2011 @ 11:56 PM Reply

We are anarchists, do as we say!

Confucianism
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Response to Anarchist Federation Aug. 9th, 2011 @ 09:03 AM Reply

At 8/8/11 11:56 PM, Camarohusky wrote: We are anarchists, do as we say!

You know it would be helpfull if you actualy had an argument to put forth.

It is rather funny how so many of you believe that the moment law goes out the window that everyone wants to rape and kill and rob. You people realy do have no faith in human kind do you. No t everybody is a fucking metalist who wants to kill. As I have said time and again there have been places around the world where this has worked and is NOTHING like what you have described it to be. I have also said that this would start of in small areas of a country not taking on the whole country at once. You seem to think that this would happen over night. If you want me to pull up this information again so be it, but it is only so I can push it into that thick skull of yours.


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Camarohusky
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Response to Anarchist Federation Aug. 9th, 2011 @ 09:35 AM Reply

At 8/9/11 09:03 AM, Confucianism wrote:
At 8/8/11 11:56 PM, Camarohusky wrote: We are anarchists, do as we say!
You know it would be helpfull if you actualy had an argument to put forth.

My statement is actually quite apt. It summarizes the attitude of anarchists in this country. They so want anarchism, but realize (quite ironically) that they can't do it alone, and then start strongly suggesting others to follow them.

It is rather funny how so many of you believe that the moment law goes out the window that everyone wants to rape and kill and rob.

Nobody has said EVERYBODY would rob and rape and kill. However, there would be enough to cause problems. Shit, just look at how many people are imprisoned in this country. Take away half for the insane defense bar folks and you still have over a million. That's 1 in 300 people. Now double the number to account for those who would commit a bad crime were it not for the rules. 1 in 150. If you have ever heard of the 10:80:10 rule of crime, that jumps dramatically higher saying that 9 out of 10 people would commit a crime if the circumstances were right.

Anarchy removes social order and protection. The removal of this would no doubt constitute a right circumstance that would induce many of the 80 to commit crimes.

However, even if this were not the case and it was just 1 in 150. You would be faced with 1 person who is willing to exploit the other 149 violently. They are not dumb so they would likely not target the 49 of those who could defend themselves. So you have essentially 1 person who has free range to victimize the other 100. It isn't until these 100 team up together, or better yet, with the 49 strong people that they are collectively able to protect from these violent people. OOPS! We have just formed a government. Anarchy is over.

The thing that makes anarchists seem out there is that they cannot see the need for at least some minimalist form of government. A combination of our weaknesses and the faults of some create a need for at least some governmental order.

Confucianism
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Response to Anarchist Federation Aug. 9th, 2011 @ 10:12 AM Reply

At 8/9/11 09:35 AM, Camarohusky wrote: The thing that makes anarchists seem out there is that they cannot see the need for at least some minimalist form of government. A combination of our weaknesses and the faults of some create a need for at least some governmental order.

'Cough cough' I have said this before.

An anarchist society would be governed by small, highly decentralized communes. There are no real "leaders", but there are elected delegates who can be recalled at any time by popular vote. Societies basic functions are handled by community institutions. In my eye.


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MultiCanimefan
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Response to Anarchist Federation Aug. 9th, 2011 @ 10:30 AM Reply

Look bro, I'm the first member of what you tried to create before. This is the wrong place for what you're trying to accomplish. Politics is worse than General, don't let anyone kid you on that. The vast majority of people here are NOT going to take you seriously.

orangebomb
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Response to Anarchist Federation Aug. 9th, 2011 @ 10:38 AM Reply

At 8/9/11 09:03 AM, Confucianism wrote:
At 8/8/11 11:56 PM, Camarohusky wrote: We are anarchists, do as we say!
You know it would be helpfull if you actualy had an argument to put forth.

It is rather funny how so many of you believe that the moment law goes out the window that everyone wants to rape and kill and rob. You people realy do have no faith in human kind do you. No t everybody is a fucking metalist who wants to kill.

That may be, but with anarchy it will simply encourage the behavior, because there are no police presence to stop said criminal from doing his or hers dastardly deeds. As I said before, the revenge factor in people will eventually kick in, because since there is no social order and no police force to defend people, then it's just going to be a cycle of violence.

As I have said time and again there have been places around the world where this has worked and is NOTHING like what you have described it to be.

Where, pray tell? Somalia? Haiti? Yeah, those are good examples.

I have also said that this would start of in small areas of a country not taking on the whole country at once. You seem to think that this would happen over night. If you want me to pull up this information again so be it, but it is only so I can push it into that thick skull of yours.

Okay, sure. Let's say that in the small communties that anarchy {without captialism, like you suggested} takes hold, and the place gets turned to shit all of the sudden. Soon, criminals will be let out of jails, there would be no snow removals and trash pickups, which means the streets would smell like shit and buried under snow, and so forth. Sounds like a recipe for tanks to storm down Main Street trying to restore order to me, curbing any type of anarchist movement in said town.

And don't give me the elected delegate crap as a way to justify your anarchism, because not only is that a form of government, {in a small sort of way.} but it won't really help if the sewers stop working and looters and arsonists take and burn everything to the ground without punishment.


Just stop worrying, and love the bomb.

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MultiCanimefan
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Response to Anarchist Federation Aug. 9th, 2011 @ 10:48 AM Reply

Yeah because people can't dispose of their own trash or shovel their walkways!

Confucianism
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Response to Anarchist Federation Aug. 9th, 2011 @ 11:03 AM Reply

At 8/9/11 10:48 AM, MultiCanimefan wrote: Yeah because people can't dispose of their own trash or shovel their walkways!

Hahaha its realy quite funny the way people think we are going to become within a night of no law.

Also, yes I do know that people realy view us in the wrong light and alot of these people on here are armchair anacrchists. This doesnt mean that they are an anarchist but they ask stupid questions like "whats the right job for an anarchist in todays society".


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Bantun
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Response to Anarchist Federation Aug. 9th, 2011 @ 02:56 PM Reply

At 8/8/11 07:35 PM, Deadclever23 wrote: I may be being stupid here but 2 things.

1) Freedom doesn't make people happy.
2) People are afraid of true freedom.

1)Freedom is not about happiness.
2)Those who have not yet discovered the truth.

There can be no free will.

Confucianism
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Response to Anarchist Federation Aug. 9th, 2011 @ 03:15 PM Reply

At 8/9/11 02:56 PM, Bantun wrote:

Have we met?


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Deadclever23
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Response to Anarchist Federation Aug. 9th, 2011 @ 05:56 PM Reply

At 8/9/11 02:56 PM, Bantun wrote:
1)Freedom is not about happiness.
2)Those who have not yet discovered the truth.

There can be no free will.

So what is this truth that you speak of and what's even our motivation to be free? Why anarchism?


"To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all."
- Oscar Wilde

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Confucianism
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Response to Anarchist Federation Aug. 9th, 2011 @ 06:14 PM Reply

At 8/9/11 05:56 PM, Deadclever23 wrote: So what is this truth that you speak of and what's even our motivation to be free?

Okay, let we ask you a question. What is with your lack of motivation to be free? What makes you give up on the idea of freedom?
I could give a reason but its best if you tell us.


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Deadclever23
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Response to Anarchist Federation Aug. 9th, 2011 @ 06:56 PM Reply

At 8/9/11 06:14 PM, Confucianism wrote: Okay, let we ask you a question. What is with your lack of motivation to be free? What makes you give up on the idea of freedom?
I could give a reason but its best if you tell us.

I do not give up on the idea of freedom, rather I am not seeking freedom to the degree that I would take on full responsibility of my own protection. I agree to surrender certain freedoms in exchange to be part of a system which keeps me protected. I do not wish to buy into this anarchic ideal which hardly seems sustainable.

Also, what kind of anarchy is this thread about? I know this may fly into the face of everything I just said, but frankly, how can we debate anarchy when we have not yet defined it?


"To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all."
- Oscar Wilde

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Confucianism
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Response to Anarchist Federation Aug. 9th, 2011 @ 07:12 PM Reply

At 8/9/11 06:56 PM, Deadclever23 wrote: Also, what kind of anarchy is this thread about? I know this may fly into the face of everything I just said, but frankly, how can we debate anarchy when we have not yet defined it?

'Cough cough' Its amazing how few people go to the first post of threads isnt it.

This is a group for those who aim to abolish capitalism and all oppression to create an equal world, without leaders and bosses, environmental destruction or wars.

In short. I could summarise a few things if you want.


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Deadclever23
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Response to Anarchist Federation Aug. 9th, 2011 @ 07:20 PM Reply

At 8/9/11 07:12 PM, Confucianism wrote: 'Cough cough' Its amazing how few people go to the first post of threads isnt it.

This is a group for those who aim to abolish capitalism and all oppression to create an equal world, without leaders and bosses, environmental destruction or wars.

In short. I could summarise a few things if you want.

That's not a definition of anarchism. That's a definition of many things.


"To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all."
- Oscar Wilde

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Confucianism
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Response to Anarchist Federation Aug. 9th, 2011 @ 07:23 PM Reply

At 8/9/11 07:20 PM, Deadclever23 wrote: That's not a definition of anarchism. That's a definition of many things.

'Also, what kind of anarchy is this thread about?' YOU said this. This 'THREAD' is what you asked about. This is what we should have been discussing.


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Response to Anarchist Federation Aug. 9th, 2011 @ 07:51 PM Reply

At 8/9/11 07:12 PM, Confucianism wrote: 'Cough cough'

You've been coughing a lot, you should probably get that checked by your capitalist/state funded hospital (depending on where you live).

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Response to Anarchist Federation Aug. 9th, 2011 @ 09:32 PM Reply

At 8/9/11 07:23 PM, Confucianism wrote:
At 8/9/11 07:20 PM, Deadclever23 wrote: That's not a definition of anarchism. That's a definition of many things.
'Also, what kind of anarchy is this thread about?' YOU said this. This 'THREAD' is what you asked about. This is what we should have been discussing.

everyone is disagreeing with OP and each other, I think this thread really is legit anarchy thread.


ya hear about the guy who put his condom on backwards? He went.

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Response to Anarchist Federation Aug. 10th, 2011 @ 07:22 AM Reply

I can't be bothered to read all these posts. But im gonna guess they have the theme of peopel arguing that anarchism is anti-organization and saying that capitilism is human nature etc. I would just like people here to read up about Thelma, the Religion/Philosophy Aleister Crowely founded. His main law, was 'Do what you will'. There's a big difference between What you will and What you want


A man is no less a slave because he can choose his master