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At 7/30/11 07:10 PM, AcetheSuperVillain wrote: Over consuming foreign goods like petroleum or Prius batteries. Investing large amounts of money in bad investments. Giving themselves bonuses while laying off millions of middle and lower class workers. All of the reasons for the recession are in America's upper crust.

That's not really a strong argument and the 2nd part was mainly after the housing bubble burst and the market crashed. The real cause was people taking out loans they knew they couldn't afford and all those people defaulted on their loans, thus that made the banks lose lots of money and thus the recession started.

I think it would be really bad but I don't think it will be apocalyptic like some people think.

On the other hand maybe its fair to say that since its never happened before to the US we have no idea specifically what will happen.

Also this is a bit unrelated but I think Germany would rise up and become a bigger super power. I don't know why but it sounds plausible to me.

At 7/29/11 09:01 PM, Camarohusky wrote: Fighting just to fight does NOT help the American people. I'm talking to you Mr. Speaker.

And I'll echo this sentiment to Mr. President!

At 7/31/11 07:36 AM, FurryDemon wrote: Also this is a bit unrelated but I think Germany would rise up and become a bigger super power. I don't know why but it sounds plausible to me.

I'm German, and let me just tell you this: No. Won't happen.
A United Europe? Maybe. But Germany alone? Never, for way too many reasons. The most likely candidates for 21st-century super power are still China and India, and I really, REALLY hope it'll be India.

At 7/30/11 06:43 PM, AcetheSuperVillain wrote:

By the way, if you don't know anything about American history and don't understand why the crazy people are using the word "Tea Party", look up the Boston Tea Party. It wasn't a tea party.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Tea_
Party

Uhm, I actually know quite a lot about American history, thank you ;-) Truth to be told, I was being somewhat ironic, and my question was rethoric insofar as that I can't just fathom why the american public puts up with the obvious lies and duplicity of the republican party. Normaly, domestic american politics don't affect me all that much (even though I follow them somewhat loosely), but if Congress doesn't get its shit together till tuesday, ALL of the Western World will be REALLY fucked.

I hope your anuses are open wide because US congress is about to blow it's load into you.

I'm bewildered because no one seems to be caring that IF NOTHING IS PASSED THE US WILL DEFAULT ON ITS PAYMENTS THUS DEVALUEING THE CURRENCY! No one really seems to be really concerned too much about it from day to day life, no one's stockpiling food or whatever, hell the last space shuttle seemed to be bigger news than this.

At 7/31/11 05:26 PM, Killersepp wrote: I'm German, and let me just tell you this: No. Won't happen.
A United Europe? Maybe. But Germany alone? Never, for way too many reasons. The most likely candidates for 21st-century super power are still China and India, and I really, REALLY hope it'll be India.

Yah I'm kinda confused why they're always brought up as a possible super power; they're not. Hell they never really were, sure they had considerable power in Europe but Europe isn't the world and outside Europe how much influence did they really have?

either way they are borrowing money to pay off debt.

a new bill is proposed but it hasn't passed yet, and even if it does, it will only delay the impending shitstorm.

unless someone makes a big change that leads USA to live with in it's means, its game over.

At 7/31/11 07:47 PM, Warforger wrote: I'm bewildered because no one seems to be caring that IF NOTHING IS PASSED THE US WILL DEFAULT ON ITS PAYMENTS THUS DEVALUEING THE CURRENCY!

If something passed the currency will still be devalued.

At 7/31/11 09:38 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: If something passed the currency will still be devalued.

If a drop results from extending the debt, it will not only be smaller in magnitude compared to a default, but it will be predictable and known territory.

That's much better than a possible sinkhole and general uncertainty.

So if this deal doesn't pass today, then what?

At 7/31/11 09:38 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: If something passed the currency will still be devalued.

Not on the same level though if we just defaulted.

At 7/31/11 05:30 PM, Killersepp wrote: Uhm, I actually know quite a lot about American history, thank you ;-)

I'm sure there are other people from other countries, or Americans who failed history that have been dying to know that though.

At 7/31/11 05:26 PM, Killersepp wrote: The most likely candidates for 21st-century super power are still China and India, and I really, REALLY hope it'll be India.

Both India and China are gong to become super powers, and there's nothing in god's arsenal that could stop that now. They are already starting an arms race between each other over nukes, stealth fighters and blue water navies, and will likely start mimicking the situation between NATO and the USSR during the Cold War soon. It's only a matter of time before neighboring countries like Japan, Pakistan, the Koreas and Vietnam start getting sucked into the shitstorm as well.

This is one of many reasons why this is a really shitty time for the USA to be dropping its pants.

It looks like the House is about to pass the vote to raise the debt ceiling; the majority of the naysayers are progressives and tea party republicans, and there is nowhere near enough of them for a simple majority.

The debt ceiling bill passes in the House 269 to 161; the Senate will possibly vote on the bill later tonight.

At 7/31/11 10:37 PM, Camarohusky wrote:

At 7/31/11 09:38 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: If something passed the currency will still be devalued.

If a drop results from extending the debt, it will not only be smaller in magnitude compared to a default, but it will be predictable and known territory.

That's much better than a possible sinkhole and general uncertainty.

The drop would have been more sudden, but not more dramatic over the the actual time that the

Especially since, as compared with now, since there will be no actual announced default, the default itself will be at a point when greater debt has been taken on.

That said, the Boehner Deal passed. About as close to the Status quo as one could get.

I really don't understand why the US has a debt limit at all. Here the Congress passes the budget (or not) and there it says how much it will spend, how much it will tax, and how much it will borrow. (The central bank also presents its monetary targets by then, so inflation tax is not signed by the same law, but at nearly the same time). Why doing this twice?
Useless, and now even harmful.

At 8/1/11 10:35 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: That said, the Boehner Deal passed. About as close to the Status quo as one could get.

Ugh, Boehner's a dick. He'd rather ass-fuck 307 million people for his own political gain than do his job.

At 8/1/11 11:00 PM, Camarohusky wrote:

At 8/1/11 10:35 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: That said, the Boehner Deal passed. About as close to the Status quo as one could get.

Ugh, Boehner's a dick. He'd rather ass-fuck 307 million people for his own political gain than do his job.

You've gotten your debt limit increase, I think 1 or 2 trillion dollars were cut from the deficit is ANTICIPATED to be over the next **decade**

However, since no one [who had any political clout] in 1999 had any foresight into what fiscal conditions would be like in 2009, We can be just non-confident in the foresight our leaders in 2012 will have

To be honest I'm skeptical the US would even

http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/1255 614/1

I posted here where I outlined four possible ways the debt ceiling issue could be dealt with;

1. No budget Cuts, Debt Ceiling is raise
2. No budget Cuts, Debt Ceiling not raised
3. Budget Cuts compromise, debt ceiling is raised
4. Balanced budget, Debt ceiling being raised rendered moot

I predicted the following:

"This is also related to the other topic on whether or not the US is Bankrupt. By my logic, [correct or not] it is. Looking at all of these, and concluding that #4 is neigh impossible, and that #3 would likely be closer to #1 than it was to #4 in terms of quality, I conclude US Default is at least a high probability"

Which is precisely what happened. [not the US default part] The compromise that was signed off allowed roughly 900 billion in additional borrowing, [I.e. not enough to last a full year if the yearly deficit is roughly and a half trillion dollars per year] With cuts to spending that were [by the accounts i've heard] back loaded. Which means that depending on who takes power in the next year, those changes could easily be revised to greater significance or greater irrelevance. [My money is on the latter]

http://www.nationalreview.com/agenda/273 256/debt-ceiling-deal-less-meets-eye-jos h-barro#

I do not endorse the opinions of the author, I'm just relying on the credibility of him with respect to the empirical data.

As for what Der Lowe Said, I agree with abolishing the debt limit insofar as it is understood that the congress does not want to, does not, and will not obey it. If Obama announced to the world that the US Government was going to borrow as much money as it saw fit with no self-imposed restraints, His honesty would at least present a relative improvement.

To Democrats: GROW SOME FUCKING BALLS!

To Republicans: LIGHTEN UP/LOOSEN UP! GET THE FUCK OVER YOURSELVES ALREADY!

I disagree with the premise that the US economy will go into default if nothing happens. It wouldn't be a complete government shut-down, it would be a partial government shutdown, which has happened in the past.

Pimp my economy.

By the fucking skin of their teeth, amiright? They finish the rough draft at midnight before it's due and then sign it in just 10 hours before the final deadline. What is this, fucking highschool?

And even then, the vibe I'm getting (mostly Daily Show and BBC News) is that the agreement gets us over the current hurdle, but won't do squat about the next. To keep with the highschool metaphor, they might have passed this quiz, but the semester isn't over.

@ Der-Lowe:
Basically, once a rule is in place, it's crazy hard to change in America, because congressmen will try to tack on unrelated parasite laws. For example, a bill to subsidize alternative energy industry might also try to decrease the legal drinking age to 18 (although i think that's a state level thing). Because of the higher than ever population, there are more Representatives in congress bickering about all kinds of bullshit which is part of why the system is starting to devolve into a useless shit hole.

who is up for another round of economic chicken?

At 8/2/11 09:42 PM, Iron-Hampster wrote: who is up for another round of economic chicken?

Grilled or crispy?