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In need of a classical review?

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Breed
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Response to In need of a classical review? 2011-07-01 21:52:24 Reply

Just wanted to add that credentials or not the review I received was very well thought out and it defined a lot of problems really well.

AndyLau
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Response to In need of a classical review? 2011-07-02 18:41:27 Reply

Yes his / her / their reviews seem to be well-thought out and educated. Very well put indeed.

Ok, here's another (I'm actually "brokendeck" this is just my ALT)

  • Peasant's Dream
    Peasant's Dream by AndyLau

    Click to listen.

    Score
    4.31 / 5.00
    Type
    Song
    Genre
    Classical
    Popularity
    147 Views


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AndyLau
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Response to In need of a classical review? 2011-07-02 18:45:30 Reply

I'm actually interested to see how you review ProudAardvark's piece. Seeing that he is an actual Hollywood composer.


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Deflektor
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Response to In need of a classical review? 2011-07-02 18:54:19 Reply

Well, i might as well see how good/bad i am. Could you please review my most recent piece ?

  • Cataclysmic Puppeteer
    Cataclysmic Puppeteer by Deflektor

    Click to listen.

    Score
    3.69 / 5.00
    Type
    Song
    Genre
    Classical
    Popularity
    300 Views


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ProudAardvark
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Response to In need of a classical review? 2011-07-02 21:27:35 Reply

Well, more "aspiring" at this point, but ty :D

I really liked your peasant dream piece btw; left a review.

At 7/2/11 06:45 PM, AndyLau wrote: I'm actually interested to see how you review ProudAardvark's piece. Seeing that he is an actual Hollywood composer.

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samulis
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Response to In need of a classical review? 2011-07-02 22:27:19 Reply

I have a large selection of 'classical' compositions lying around if you're in need of more stuff to go through... Here are a few more recent ones that I fancy quite well myself, although they are all rather bland theory-wise. I'm interested in hearing what you have to say, as I have taken some of these to a relative who teaches composition for feedback. Some of my stuff seems more medieval in structure, but others are quite contemporary.

  • Dance of the Rose
    Dance of the Rose by samulis

    Click to listen.

    Score
    4.48 / 5.00
    Type
    Song
    Genre
    Classical
    Popularity
    103 Views
  • Aeneas Flees
    Aeneas Flees by samulis

    Click to listen.

    Score
    4.34 / 5.00
    Type
    Song
    Genre
    Classical
    Popularity
    175 Views
  • [Crusaders] Day's End
    [Crusaders] Day's End by samulis

    Click to listen.

    Score
    4.09 / 5.00
    Type
    Song
    Genre
    Classical
    Popularity
    146 Views
  • Greensleeves in Bb
    Greensleeves in Bb by samulis

    Click to listen.

    Score
    4.25 / 5.00
    Type
    Song
    Genre
    Classical
    Popularity
    323 Views


My Music - Virtual Instruments - Website
Orchestral/Cinematic Composer

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BrokenDeck
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Response to In need of a classical review? 2011-07-02 23:30:58 Reply

At 7/2/11 09:27 PM, ProudAardvark wrote: Well, more "aspiring" at this point, but ty :D

I really liked your peasant dream piece btw; left a review.

Hey thanks! It was done before my big "upgrade" back then I still had trouble getting the notes to respond quicker than 20ms lag. So when time came to play the samples from my keyboard, that was as accurate as I couldplay then live....

ProudAardvark
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Response to In need of a classical review? 2011-07-03 13:30:30 Reply

Well, its a review from a really pretentious music student. Delivers on all expectations.


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Response to In need of a classical review? 2011-07-03 14:27:04 Reply

I don't know if orchestral counts as classical but I think that's the best genre for it on here.
http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/4 29300


Let's ride bikes!

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Response to In need of a classical review? 2011-07-03 14:28:43 Reply

btw, how are people getting the CD icons with their links?


Let's ride bikes!

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seargenthippo
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Response to In need of a classical review? 2011-07-03 14:47:57 Reply

I will take part in this.

  • The Sneak
    The Sneak by seargenthippo

    Click to listen.

    Score
    4.36 / 5.00
    Type
    Song
    Genre
    Classical
    Popularity
    396 Views

I'm only 15 so go easy on me :P

ClassicalCritic
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Response to In need of a classical review? 2011-07-03 14:52:29 Reply

At 7/3/11 01:30 PM, ProudAardvark wrote: Well, its a review from a really pretentious music student. Delivers on all expectations.

What kind of critic did you expect? We only made suggestions how to make the piece better in our opinion, nothing outrageous. As for the critic, it is very harsh of you to decline every suggestion in a single sentence.

Spikrodd
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Response to In need of a classical review? 2011-07-03 15:26:57 Reply

Yeah, I'll bite.

  • SpK*) - Cloudy Day in C Minor
    SpK*) - Cloudy Day in C Minor by Spikrodd

    Click to listen.

    Score
    4.32 / 5.00
    Type
    Song
    Genre
    Classical
    Popularity
    422 Views
  • SpK*) - Cloudy Day in G Major
    SpK*) - Cloudy Day in G Major by Spikrodd

    Click to listen.

    Score
    4.38 / 5.00
    Type
    Song
    Genre
    Classical
    Popularity
    385 Views
  • SpK*) - The Climax [WIP?]
    SpK*) - The Climax [WIP?] by Spikrodd

    Click to listen.

    Score
    4.15 / 5.00
    Type
    Song
    Genre
    Classical
    Popularity
    208 Views

sorohanro
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Response to In need of a classical review? 2011-07-03 15:59:17 Reply

I read some of reviews. Very well done.
So, I would appreciate an opinion on those:

  • Rising of a Hero
    Rising of a Hero by sorohanro

    Click to listen.

    Score
    4.25 / 5.00
    Type
    Song
    Genre
    Classical
    Popularity
    5,066 Views
  • Amazon Groove
    Amazon Groove by sorohanro

    Click to listen.

    Score
    4.19 / 5.00
    Type
    Song
    Genre
    Classical
    Popularity
    4,108 Views

ProudAardvark
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Response to In need of a classical review? 2011-07-03 16:30:02 Reply

If you want me to decline your suggestions at length send me a PM ;D

What kind of critic did you expect? We only made suggestions how to make the piece better in our opinion, nothing outrageous. As for the critic, it is very harsh of you to decline every suggestion in a single sentence.

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ClassicalCritic
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Response to In need of a classical review? 2011-07-03 16:44:59 Reply

At 7/3/11 04:30 PM, ProudAardvark wrote: If you want me to decline your suggestions at length send me a PM ;D

What kind of critic did you expect? We only made suggestions how to make the piece better in our opinion, nothing outrageous. As for the critic, it is very harsh of you to decline every suggestion in a single sentence.

You offended us in public, why don't you explain it in public, too? Right here in this very thread.

Gario
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Response to In need of a classical review? 2011-07-03 16:49:10 Reply

I don't post any of my classical music on here (for music thats taken me over a month to really write/proofread, then a couple of months more to get performances, I'd rather not whore it out to the internet... dunno, that's just how I feel about it), so unfortunately I can't have anything posted. Though from what I see in the reviews, while there are good points to them (some of the ideas they point out are neat, and the mixing suggestions are often spot on), unfortunately it seems that they are a bit too obtrusive in their opinions. They're looking for a style that's well varied, uses correct counterpoint, has less cliche instrumentation, etc., and when a track doesn't fill those requirements they fault the composer for it.

Coming from experience, this approach is a flawed way to review any track, since the inevitable outcome is that the music that follows the suggestions listed end up losing the original composer's flavor (or the composer's 'voice', as I've heard it referred to before) and become more the 'reviewer's track'. Suggesting something specific for a track is alright, if something is really amiss (for example, the soundscape isn't filled at all, or the beat doesn't match the flow of the track, or something), or if the composer is looking for suggestions, but using these ideas as the bulk of a review when there isn't anything technically wrong with the music isn't conducive to the freedom a composer has for his/her music, and to many people it's rightfully insulting.

Just saying, keep these things in mind when reviewing. The depth you go into is a nice feature, and you have a little experience in the theory, but faulting composers for what should be within their liberty to do brings the reviews down.


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ClassicalCritic
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Response to In need of a classical review? 2011-07-03 17:34:32 Reply

At 7/3/11 04:49 PM, Gario wrote: I don't post any of my classical music on here (for music thats taken me over a month to really write/proofread, then a couple of months more to get performances, I'd rather not whore it out to the internet... dunno, that's just how I feel about it), so unfortunately I can't have anything posted. Though from what I see in the reviews, while there are good points to them (some of the ideas they point out are neat, and the mixing suggestions are often spot on), unfortunately it seems that they are a bit too obtrusive in their opinions. They're looking for a style that's well varied, uses correct counterpoint, has less cliche instrumentation, etc., and when a track doesn't fill those requirements they fault the composer for it.

Coming from experience, this approach is a flawed way to review any track, since the inevitable outcome is that the music that follows the suggestions listed end up losing the original composer's flavor (or the composer's 'voice', as I've heard it referred to before) and become more the 'reviewer's track'. Suggesting something specific for a track is alright, if something is really amiss (for example, the soundscape isn't filled at all, or the beat doesn't match the flow of the track, or something), or if the composer is looking for suggestions, but using these ideas as the bulk of a review when there isn't anything technically wrong with the music isn't conducive to the freedom a composer has for his/her music, and to many people it's rightfully insulting.

Just saying, keep these things in mind when reviewing. The depth you go into is a nice feature, and you have a little experience in the theory, but faulting composers for what should be within their liberty to do brings the reviews down.

We understand, what you are saying here. Faulting the composer is a wrong term here. We are giving them something to get them thinking. We think that they keep themselves in their own limits, cliché instrumentation for example or if they try to emulate somebody else. We are also trying to score them individually, because every composer wants to express something else. We hear definitely that the composer is using his own voice.

One question though, not only for you, what should a reviewer write? We see a lot of 10/10 reviews of them saying something irrelevant and not-helping such as ProudAardvark likes to do.

Music is 3/4 craft and 1/4 heart. The heart is of course the composer's voice and it is immutable. But the craft can be changed without altering the expression of the musical piece, such as the instrumentation or the more recent aspect, the mixing. If the composer's voice is prominent enough, and he knows about it, he should be able to not let it influence/manipulate by reviews, more likely pick the essential suggestions from it, because there are always things to improve on, such as the instrumentation in many pieces we reviewed on Newgrounds. It is more about the intention of the composer and we give them suggestions, how they can break their own limit and achieve the maximum, of what they want.

If a composer wants to make something really epic, and only wants to use strings and a horn for it, then we would say "You could also use the woodwinds, the other brass-instruments and some sophisticated percussion to get a more epic sound." He/she is going to say "But that is my own style and I do not want to change it." "Then you won't achieve the maximum of what you were planning."

By the way, we actually did not look for a right counterpoint yet. It is more like a question of taste. If he/she wants to make something sound more classic intentionally, than we will be checking those aspects. The same counts for people, who want to sound like from impressionism or expressionism and et cetera. Though this must be chosen deliberately by the composer. But as for that, every composer should have his own style of course.

sorohanro
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Response to In need of a classical review? 2011-07-03 18:04:51 Reply

@ClassicalCritic
I think your reviews are very useful.
Of course, some might be offended that their tracks doesn't get 10/10 with a review that praise them and have a title like "AWESOME !!!!". Of course, some might not agree with your opinion and of course, sometimes an effect that was intentionally done by a composer might be misinterpreted.

But what's the option, to write flat and useless reviews that doesn't help in any way ? "Nice track. 5/5, 10/10" or "your track is gay 0/5, no stars" ?
Just because a composer is too touchy (oh, my baby is hurt by this review) should be a reason for people NOT to have their own opinions?
Just because a composer is too touchy should be a reason for people never EVER point a mistake or a bad thing ? (oh he's a HOLLYVOOOD star)

so, ClassicalCritic, please keep doing what you do, you're doing an awesome job.

ClassicalCritic
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Response to In need of a classical review? 2011-07-03 18:32:37 Reply

At 7/3/11 06:04 PM, sorohanro wrote: @ClassicalCritic
I think your reviews are very useful.
Of course, some might be offended that their tracks doesn't get 10/10 with a review that praise them and have a title like "AWESOME !!!!". Of course, some might not agree with your opinion and of course, sometimes an effect that was intentionally done by a composer might be misinterpreted.

But what's the option, to write flat and useless reviews that doesn't help in any way ? "Nice track. 5/5, 10/10" or "your track is gay 0/5, no stars" ?
Just because a composer is too touchy (oh, my baby is hurt by this review) should be a reason for people NOT to have their own opinions?
Just because a composer is too touchy should be a reason for people never EVER point a mistake or a bad thing ? (oh he's a HOLLYVOOOD star)

so, ClassicalCritic, please keep doing what you do, you're doing an awesome job.

We thank you dearly for supporting our opinion on this matter. That is actually the reason why we formed this account. We keep ourselves anonymous because there are many people, who cannot stand critic.

Deflektor
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Response to In need of a classical review? 2011-07-03 18:46:55 Reply

I gotta agree with Sorohanro. ClassicalCritic knows his stuff (well, THEY know their stuff), and the review they gave me is the most useful i ever had. I highly encourage constructive criticism, because it helps in improving our stuff. We're all looking for improvement, right ? So, let's accept that our music isn't perfect and let's accept advices.


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Response to In need of a classical review? 2011-07-03 21:04:11 Reply

Keep in mind, that they are only ONE opinion, or possibly TWO opinions. Their reviews are not the be all that ends all. Take what you want / need from it and ignore the rest. It is only opinion, and opinion can be only ever objective.

Keep in mind that different music-related professions have different ideals / standards, and that a lot of "Orchestral" music is NOT "Classical" music.

There are actually very few pieces on Newgrounds written in proper Classical form.

Perhaps the subject should be " "In Need Of A Orchestral Musical Piece Review", You Say?"

Food for thuoght

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Response to In need of a classical review? 2011-07-03 21:20:35 Reply

At 6/30/11 03:47 PM, ClassicalCritic wrote:
We want to be anonymous but we assure you, we have experience in what we are doing. We are specialized in composing for orchestras and ensembles and that for movies. So we are both film composers.

MY PETITION: (posted in public for transparency)

Substantiation of these claims would greatly improve your relationship with the NG community and more than likely earn you more trust and friendship both in the short term AND long term. Hiding behind anonymity does not help your credibility or professionalism.

Although your reviews thus far are reasonably educated and thought-provoking, an opaque identity will only serve to hamper future opportunities.

To add upon the cordial working relationship (between yourselves and the NG Audio Community), might I suggest the masked strangers identify themselves. We're a generally friendly bunch here and I believe such an unmasking will serve to benefit everyone.

Sincerely

Andy B. Lau
"brokendeck"

WizMystery
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Response to In need of a classical review? 2011-07-03 21:26:22 Reply

At 7/3/11 09:04 PM, AndyLau wrote: Keep in mind that different music-related professions have different ideals / standards, and that a lot of "Orchestral" music is NOT "Classical" music.

There are actually very few pieces on Newgrounds written in proper Classical form.

Perhaps the subject should be " "In Need Of A Orchestral Musical Piece Review", You Say?"

Food for thuoght

"Classical" covers nearly all orchestral pieces in existence, including the many film score orchestral pieces we have here. If you are talking about the Classical Era, then you would be right - but Classical has a double meaning in the world of music. Orchestral pieces are only excluded as Classical music when the main focus is of another genre, as evident in Symphonic Metal or a Pop accompaniment.

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Response to In need of a classical review? 2011-07-04 00:29:41 Reply

Ah good, I need to start recording my piano playing now!


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Response to In need of a classical review? 2011-07-04 04:37:52 Reply

At 7/3/11 09:04 PM, AndyLau wrote: Keep in mind, that they are only ONE opinion, or possibly TWO opinions.

That is what you can say about any review. Still, because of that you don't block reviews or flag all as inappropriate.
So... all NG musicians crave for feedback and reviews but when somebody comes and give proper reviews you complain that is only one or two opinions... Am I the only one who see this situation as absurd ?

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Response to In need of a classical review? 2011-07-04 10:36:07 Reply

At 7/4/11 04:37 AM, sorohanro wrote: So... all NG musicians crave for feedback and reviews but when somebody comes and give proper reviews you complain that is only one or two opinions... Am I the only one who see this situation as absurd ?

Yeah this exactly. It shows how people get too used to mindless 10/10 reviews that are thrown around everywhere to accept any real criticism.

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Response to In need of a classical review? 2011-07-04 10:50:42 Reply

I'd just like to say that this guy has excellent reviews, no matter if he doesn't show any qualifications. His reviews are harsh, but if you really want to improve, that's exactly how you should look at your songs, harshly.

Definetely recommend asking this guy for a review if u want some criticism.

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Response to In need of a classical review? 2011-07-04 13:52:43 Reply

I think this is pretty cool, I'm glad ClassicalCritic is doing what he's doing.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on 2 classical pieces.
As these were made primarily as mockups for LIVE performance, commenting on the mixing is not required (unless you'd really like to!)

  • Animus Intorqueo, No.2
    Animus Intorqueo, No.2 by NickPerrin

    Click to listen.

    Score
    4.18 / 5.00
    Type
    Song
    Genre
    Classical
    Popularity
    551 Views
  • Piano Trio in C# Minor
    Piano Trio in C# Minor by NickPerrin

    Click to listen.

    Score
    4.39 / 5.00
    Type
    Song
    Genre
    Classical
    Popularity
    639 Views

As the piano trio is more recent I feel that it could be very much improved (was written in a bit of a rush), and would certainly like the kind of honest suggestions I've seen so far from your reviews so that I can do that.

Gario
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Response to In need of a classical review? 2011-07-04 15:35:39 Reply

Actually I caught one counterpoint comment (a cross relation is a contrapuntal technique :P)... but that's not a problem (I'm obsessed with counterpoint, myself). I agree that comments on that should be made only in particular cases (like if there's a counter melody that obviously should be a separate voice, or something).

You'd probably notice that I'm more of a 7-8 reviewer myself (I rarely give a 10 unless it really is perfect), so I don't mind the lower scores. However, things such as instrumentation are pretty subjective opinions that you have, and unless there is some detailed reason as towhy you want woodwinds or something then it ends up sounding a little trite. For example...

If a composer wants to make something really epic, and only wants to use strings and a horn for it, then we would say "You could also use the woodwinds, the other brass-instruments and some sophisticated percussion to get a more epic sound." He/she is going to say "But that is my own style and I do not want to change it." "Then you won't achieve the maximum of what you were planning."

Understandably, this is a vague statement since there isn't actually an example, but I'll go with it since it's perfect for what I'm thinking of. An 'epic sound' is... vague, and the suggestion isn't too helpful since it is merely telling the composer to throw more instruments at the problem. Even if the composer follows, it might not actually help unless they know what to throw the instruments at.

If the track sounds open with just strings and a horn (which it probably would) then the comment should note that the soundscape isn't filling well enough (an objective statement), and that the use of [trumpets/trombones/specific woodwinds] would fill the space better, especially at [some time stamp that really exemplifies the problem]. Then the review has no way of being interpreted as being subjective - it's a real problem that you're giving possible solutions to, and it gives the composer some real room to move around (they might surprise you and solve the underlying issue in an unexpected way, which the reviewer might learn from).

Or perhaps there isn't enough variety with the textures and instruments and the listener gets easily tired of the song (again, an objective problem) - then suggesting to use different instruments to space the track appropriately would be helpful (again, the use of time stamps is great - even ifthey don't break them up at the suggested places they'll have a good idea to what you're hearing). Alternatively they could use the same instruments in different ways (horn covers a counterpoint while high strings take theme, or something like that). Again, the composer notices the objective problem with their track and they can act on it as they see fit, and again they might surprise you.

Your reviews have a lot of good things going for them (their organization is very nice, the mixing aspect is often spot on and some of the suggestions are interesting), but they seem less helpful than they should because they seem to focus on subjective factors rather than objective ones. I'm hoping that my... um, reviews of your reviews are helpful.


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