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Immigrants don't pay taxes...?

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Boredy-Mcbored
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Immigrants don't pay taxes...? 2011-05-29 04:51:57 Reply

A common argument against immigration is that illegal immigrant DO NOT pay taxes. Where is this argument coming from? An immigrant that lives in a house pays property taxes. An immigrant that buys from the local walmart pays income tax. Do these not count?

"But they don't pay income tax!" Yes, they do. Not every illegal immigrant is a day laborer or a house maid. There are plenty of people who work corporate jobs just like the rest of us. In fact, I find it FUNNY how people want illegals to STOP working these jobs because its preventing them to pay the government for the "thousands of dollars they take away from legal Americans".

Please put the tax and the "working below minimum wage" arguments aside. Its just a bottomless, misinformed stereotype.


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Response to Immigrants don't pay taxes...? 2011-05-29 10:02:04 Reply

At 5/29/11 04:51 AM, Boredy-Mcbored wrote: A common argument against immigration is that illegal immigrant DO NOT pay taxes. Where is this argument coming from? An immigrant that lives in a house pays property taxes. An immigrant that buys from the local walmart pays income tax. Do these not count?

How exactly is an illegal immigrant going to buy a house?
True, illegal immigrants pay taxes associated with purchases, like sales tax, cigarette taxes, gasoline taxes, etc.

"But they don't pay income tax!" Yes, they do. Not every illegal immigrant is a day laborer or a house maid. There are plenty of people who work corporate jobs just like the rest of us.

Plenty, but they are the extreme minority. Most are day laborers in the contruction and agricultural sectors. A small percentage do file tax returns, believe it or not.

In fact, I find it FUNNY how people want illegals to STOP working these jobs because its preventing them to pay the government for the "thousands of dollars they take away from legal Americans".

Illegal immigrants are almost exclusively poor, with low income potential. Even if they were legal American citizens, they still would not contribute enough in taxes to pay for what they would bring in infrastructure, social welfare, and education costs. Our system depends on a certain level of middle to high-income earners, and adding more poor people only increases the burden. Thats the strongest argument against illegal immigration, since no one considers treating them as a separate category of citizens with fewer entitlements to be an option.

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Response to Immigrants don't pay taxes...? 2011-05-29 11:14:44 Reply

At 5/29/11 10:02 AM, adrshepard wrote: and adding more poor people only increases the burden.

But they work and buy things.
They make the American economy run but Americans don't want to give anything back to them. That's basically how it is.

Americans will hire them, use their goods and services and sell things to them but then they'll bitch about how they're a burden.


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Response to Immigrants don't pay taxes...? 2011-05-29 13:17:38 Reply

At 5/29/11 11:14 AM, poxpower wrote:
At 5/29/11 10:02 AM, adrshepard wrote: and adding more poor people only increases the burden.
But they work and buy things.
They make the American economy run but Americans don't want to give anything back to them. That's basically how it is.

Americans will hire them, use their goods and services and sell things to them but then they'll bitch about how they're a burden.

The issue is whether or not they are net tax contributors or net tax recipients. Paying sales taxes may contribute to this but this is not a question of theory, it's a question of fact. [I.e. it is a statement that can be verified or falsified by reference to actual events]

Also one need not live within the boundaries of X state to enjoy goods [and some services] provided by the citizens of x State. Although this can be the case with most SERVICES, [and the US is a primarily service sector economy]

The other argument is that illegals tend to send large portions of their income to their families back home in, presumably, mexico or another latin american country. And so even if they "Buy Things" in "our country", the bulk of their income is being spent on or by "Foreigners". Now while I'm pretty sure the statement about Illegal's average spending behavior is true [i.e. they do send a good amount of the money to their families] and would thus render the 'they spend money in our country' argument invalid, I don't personally accept it as a valid reason to discredit immigration in general. "America" as some singular entity has no inherent right to tell people who work in it's borders whether to spend their money on their families within some other political boundary or whether to spend it here, or whether to take their money and stash it under their sofa.


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Response to Immigrants don't pay taxes...? 2011-05-29 14:23:38 Reply

They don't pay income tax? No one should have to pay income tax. DOWN WITH INCOME TAXES.


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Response to Immigrants don't pay taxes...? 2011-05-29 14:42:06 Reply

At 5/29/11 01:17 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote:
The issue is whether or not they are net tax contributors or net tax recipients.

Well it's hard to count.

They cost more than they bring in mostly due to education and healthcare costs for their kids. But they're not going to bring the kids back to Mexico, so effectively those kids will be Americans some day and leave the "illegal" group to become "legals", repaying what they cost in the long term while vanishing from the stats.

There's many different kinds of illegal immigrants, we shouldn't forget that. Some come to work for just a few months per year, some come to establish themselves and send money back and some come to become Americans and raise their kids as Americans and are willing to do whatever it takes.

That last category is the one who costs the taxpayers the most money, but in the long term they also bring in the most money.


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Response to Immigrants don't pay taxes...? 2011-05-29 15:25:51 Reply

At 5/29/11 04:51 AM, Boredy-Mcbored wrote: A common argument against immigration is that illegal immigrant DO NOT pay taxes. Where is this argument coming from? An immigrant that lives in a house pays property taxes. An immigrant that buys from the local walmart pays income tax. Do these not count?

You don't pay income tax at stores. You pay sales tax. Most illegals do not own houses; they are too poor.

They consume more in services than they pay in taxes.

"But they don't pay income tax!" Yes, they do. Not every illegal immigrant is a day laborer or a house maid. There are plenty of people who work corporate jobs just like the rest of us. In fact, I find it FUNNY how people want illegals to STOP working these jobs because its preventing them to pay the government for the "thousands of dollars they take away from legal Americans".

Illegals don't have valid social security numbers, so it'd be next to impossible to have any decent job, or else they'd be out of luck. Even if they could procure a social security number, it wouldn't be theirs, so they'd be committing identity theft.

Please put the tax and the "working below minimum wage" arguments aside. Its just a bottomless, misinformed stereotype.

No; it's true.


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SmilezRoyale
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Response to Immigrants don't pay taxes...? 2011-05-29 18:58:30 Reply

At 5/29/11 02:42 PM, poxpower wrote:
At 5/29/11 01:17 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote:
The issue is whether or not they are net tax contributors or net tax recipients.
Well it's hard to count.

They cost more than they bring in mostly due to education and healthcare costs for their kids. But they're not going to bring the kids back to Mexico, so effectively those kids will be Americans some day and leave the "illegal" group to become "legals", repaying what they cost in the long term while vanishing from the stats.

They are still not necessarily net tax payers or recipients. Now according to a 2010 MSNBC article

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36226444/ns/
business-personal_finance/t/half-us-pays -no-federal-income-tax/

Now neither your statements nor my pointing to this article are definitive. But I am going to guess that if half of US Citizens are net tax eaters, I will guess that the proceeding generations of Americans born from immigrant parents are still not contributing to federal coffers [on net]. Not that this is a bad thing per-say.

Like I said, I'm not opposed to immigration. But I'm still fairly certain that immigrants living illegally, as well as their progeny are not net tax payers. This does not mean that immigration persay

There's many different kinds of illegal immigrants, we shouldn't forget that. Some come to work for just a few months per year, some come to establish themselves and send money back and some come to become Americans and raise their kids as Americans and are willing to do whatever it takes.

That's all very charming. \

Keep in mind that I'm not an opponent of immigration. and Illegal immigration is only such because it is just that, illegal. But I am pointing out that the present legal/tax structure is such that illegals cost taxpayers more than they benefit.

Immigration is nothing more and nothing less than the free trade principle as applied to labor markets. Ceteris paribus it's beneficial to everyone generally that the free movement of people between what are thought of as borders be permited, but it is not inconceivable for Governments to, deliberately or not, make this otherwise beneficial process actually harmful.


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Response to Immigrants don't pay taxes...? 2011-05-29 19:30:16 Reply

At 5/29/11 06:58 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: But I'm still fairly certain that immigrants living illegally, as well as their progeny are not net tax payers. This does not mean that immigration persay

Well it takes time to rejoin the middle class from basically nothing.

illegals cost taxpayers more than they benefit.

As far as taxes go, but they also lower the cost of goods and services and enable other people to have high-paid jobs as employers of said immigrants.
They're part of the food chain, the ramifications of their impact is really broad and probably impossible to accurately calculate.

Ceteris paribus it's beneficial to everyone generally that the free movement of people between what are thought of as borders be permited

Up to a point I suppose.

At any rate, they're not stopping illegal immigration any time soon so they might as well learn to live with it.


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Response to Immigrants don't pay taxes...? 2011-05-30 13:30:28 Reply

At 5/29/11 04:51 AM, Boredy-Mcbored wrote: Do these not count?

They are not taxed in terms of the same kind of payroll taxes that you and I (and everybody else who works a legitimate job) pays at the end of the work week. For where I work, I have to pay city, county, and state taxes, federal witholding tax, along with paying into medicare and social security for a grand total of about 18% of my paycheck goes to pay for all these programs.

So they're not paying any of these taxes, and they're costing the U.S. Billions of dollars by being here.

Unless the "good" to the U.S. Economy illegal immigrants do by being here can both be (a) quantified and (b) significantly outweighs the bad they by being here, you have very little to go on arguing in their favor.


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Response to Immigrants don't pay taxes...? 2011-05-30 20:09:57 Reply

At 5/29/11 10:02 AM, adrshepard wrote: How exactly is an illegal immigrant going to buy a house?

My family is composed of legal and illegal Caribbean immigrants and they are more than capable of paying taxes...

Plenty, but they are the extreme minority. Most are day laborers in the contruction and agricultural sectors. A small percentage do file tax returns, believe it or not.

They do. Like the people in my family.

Illegal immigrants are almost exclusively poor, with low income potential. Even if they were legal American citizens, they still would not contribute enough in taxes to pay for what they would bring in infrastructure, social welfare, and education costs.

The education part makes no sense. Logically speaking poor illegal families are more inclined to pay for a lottery ticket because they are want to earn money. Therefore, illegals DO pay for education. And their children are either citizens already or soon to be citizens. They will pay the money back and MORE.

At 5/29/11 03:25 PM, Jedi-Master wrote: You don't pay income tax at stores. You pay sales tax.

A sales tax is still a tax right?

:Most illegals do not own houses; they are too poor.
They don't live in caves... Whether they rent a house or buy one the taxes are still being payed. In a rent situation the person in charge of collecting the tax has to pay taxes.

They consume more in services than they pay in taxes.

Education? Lottery and the fact most of the children are either citizen or grow to be citizens meaning they pay for the taxes in the long run. Health Care? But if they pay taxes what makes an uninsured immigrant different than a uninsured American? What else besides that?

Illegals don't have valid social security numbers, so it'd be next to impossible to have any decent job, or else they'd be out of luck. Even if they could procure a social security number, it wouldn't be theirs, so they'd be committing identity theft.

Explain how people in my family are able to get jobs in which you have to pay income tax at the end of every check then?

No; it's true.

No, you are generalizing...

At 5/30/11 01:30 PM, Proteas wrote:
They are not taxed in terms of the same kind of payroll taxes that you and I (and everybody else who works a legitimate job) pays at the end of the work week. For where I work, I have to pay city, county, and state taxes, federal witholding tax, along with paying into medicare and social security for a grand total of about 18% of my paycheck goes to pay for all these programs.

Um... Some illegal immigrants do pay income taxes. You can't just automatically say most or a minority don't either because the IRS doesn't have a statistic of it. Just explored the FAIR website too. It seems to be very conservative and biased. (I'm just saying. Not discrediting their reputation or anything)

At 5/29/11 02:42 PM, poxpower wrote: There's many different kinds of illegal immigrants, we shouldn't forget that. Some come to work for just a few months per year, some come to establish themselves and send money back and some come to become Americans and raise their kids as Americans and are willing to do whatever it takes.
At 5/29/11 11:14 AM, poxpower wrote: Americans will hire them, use their goods and services and sell things to them but then they'll bitch about how they're a burden.

These two post are a basic summary of what the thread was about. You complain like they are low lives that are all criminals when most come to America to start a new life. They want to make a better life for their children who grow up to be model citizens of America.

In fact, there wouldn't be as many illegals if legalization process weren't so long, hard and expensive. My mom came here 20 something years ago and would have filed YEARS ago if she had someone to recommend her and it weren't so expensive. She had to wait until my sister became a citizen to get a recommendation and only just now got the money. She applied a year ago and after rejecting her residency for some undisclosed reason she has to start the process ALL over again. Shes a model citizen and hasn't done ANYTHING wrong, payed taxes for years and got rejected... Its a frustrating process.

If we made the residency/citizen process easier these types of things wouldn't be happening to this extent.


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Response to Immigrants don't pay taxes...? 2011-05-30 20:29:45 Reply

At 5/29/11 04:51 AM, Boredy-Mcbored wrote: A common argument against immigration is that illegal immigrant DO NOT pay taxes.

Thats the most stupid argument against a pro immigration policy I have ever heard. ILLEGAL immigrants will be will be living in the country outside a governments immigration policy, thats why they're ILLEGAL. Stricter policies will mean less legal immigrants, but may create more illegal immigrants who, as examples above show, are less able to contribute to the economy (through income tax etc.)


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Response to Immigrants don't pay taxes...? 2011-05-30 21:25:18 Reply

At 5/30/11 08:09 PM, Boredy-Mcbored wrote: Um... Some illegal immigrants do pay income taxes. You can't just automatically say most or a minority don't either because the IRS doesn't have a statistic of it.

And you don't automatically get to say I'm wrong without backing up your assumptions, which leads me to my next statement...

Just explored the FAIR website too. It seems to be very conservative and biased. (I'm just saying. Not discrediting their reputation or anything)

Then find numbers of your own to refute them. Otherwise, they stand.


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Response to Immigrants don't pay taxes...? 2011-05-30 22:03:33 Reply

And while we're on the subject of rebuttal statements with nothing to back them up with... I'm curious about this one.

At 5/30/11 08:09 PM, Boredy-Mcbored wrote: My family is composed of legal and illegal Caribbean immigrants and they are more than capable of paying taxes...

How exactly does an illegal immigrant pay payroll taxes? Don't you have to have a Social Security Number for that, or are they just using someone's stolen social security number?

They do. Like the people in my family.

So the illegals in your family file tax returns? REALLY? Using what documentation?

A sales tax is still a tax right?

You know damn well that's not what people get upset about when this subject comes up, quit playing coy.


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Response to Immigrants don't pay taxes...? 2011-05-30 22:18:12 Reply

I don't know the statistics about the US but in Australia most illegal immigrants are people who overstay their temporary visa. If immigration is a problem, consider yourself lucky that people are choosing to immigrate to your nation. You know you have a real problem when people stop immigrating.

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Response to Immigrants don't pay taxes...? 2011-05-30 22:29:35 Reply

At 5/30/11 10:18 PM, bobomajo wrote: I don't know the statistics about the US but in Australia most illegal immigrants are people who overstay their temporary visa.

I think in America it's about half the illegal immigrant population.


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Response to Immigrants don't pay taxes...? 2011-05-30 23:55:29 Reply

At 5/30/11 10:29 PM, Danavers wrote: I think in America it's about half the illegal immigrant population.

I am pretty sure there are more illegal imigarants who sneak in then there are legal immigrants total, let alone enough to even stay beyond their visa...

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Response to Immigrants don't pay taxes...? 2011-05-31 00:36:31 Reply

feel free to respond and discuss my thoughts on the subject
original thread but same thought idea

this is an idea that i had running in my mind few days ago...
please read the whole post and try to understand that am not a racist, hateful bastard or democrat/republican or any other political party; this is simply an idea a thought...

people complain about illegal alians/welfare people and how big and ridiculous family size they are, they work for cash and never pay any tax or government bills; my idea is being an illegal alian/on welfare is ok just as long as you have one child, and no more... (china dose it with its citizens why shouldnt we do it with people of very low income and illegal alians) but my point is, if you are on welfare and government support, you cant care for more than one child and you shouldn't be allowed to populate anymore since you cant support your kids and children... and if you have more than one child (after a date is set where this is idea is voted on and is a law) you will be deported to your home country...

you dont pay taxes and just spread your seeds and populate... i speak of many people when i say "am fucking tired of paying taxes that goes to people who dont work for shit and just smoke crack and popping babys to get a bigger government support foodstamps check etc...

i guess the sum of what am trying to say is, if you (illegal alian or anyone on welfare) shouldn't have more than one kid by law unless you have a job that can pay and support you and your family and don't depend on the government and tax payers money to raise your kids for you.

doing this will eliminate the idea where (am going to pop out as many kids as i can since the government pays me more money) and hopefully encourage a higher goal in the next generations life

discuss


NOTE: PSN Illegal-Product or ILLEGALPRODUCT

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Response to Immigrants don't pay taxes...? 2011-05-31 09:57:01 Reply

At 5/29/11 02:42 PM, poxpower wrote: That last category is the one who costs the taxpayers the most money, but in the long term they also bring in the most money.

I doubt it. Hispanics have the highest reproduction rate of any demographic group, and they also tend to be poorer than whites, meaning that they eat more government money.


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Response to Immigrants don't pay taxes...? 2011-06-02 17:41:15 Reply

At 5/29/11 04:51 AM, Boredy-Mcbored wrote:
"But they don't pay income tax!" Yes, they do. Not every illegal immigrant is a day laborer or a house maid. There are plenty of people who work corporate jobs just like the rest of us. In fact, I find it FUNNY how people want illegals to STOP working these jobs because its preventing them to pay the government for the "thousands of dollars they take away from legal Americans".

You're on to something here Boredy...

When the illegal immigrants get jobs here, lets use Taco Bell for an example... Lets say Taco Bell employs 100 illegals, and is paying those hundred illegals... Now an illegal immigrant fresh off the boat(or fresh from a truck ride through the desert) probably doesn't know much about how our tax system works. When they begin working they probably get taxes taken out out of their checks which is directly paid to the gov't, hence tax returns.

These same illegal folks are going to NOT go claim their refund check at the end of the year because the SSN they're using is linked with someone else, so they let that money sit with the government.

My wife and I get a grand or two every year from the gov't when we get our tax returns, those 100 immigrants aren't getting their grand or two, and that's quite a bit of money. And we can argue that there are more than 100 illegal immigrants NOT collecting their income tax returns..

Are all the extra people hurting our already wounded economy? Yes.. we're over stretching ourselves having to pay for these kids to go to school, food stamps for all these kids, clothing budgets for all these kids. Its really the kids that are kiler...

Not to sound too racist, but I will anyway, I live in an apartment complex with only 8 apartments, 4 of them are mexican apartments. We have 14 Mexican kids spread over those 4 apartments. 4 of the apartments are white people... and there are only 3 kids(with one on the way).

The culture of America was moving to keep our families smaller to reduce the burden on society to feed all of our fat hungry kids.... The culture of Mexico seems to still be heavily laced with how we bred in the 1850s: Stock up on kids, cuz some of them are gonna die!

So, Immigrants do pay taxes, a good portion of them are doing their part, but their culture doesn't mesh with the existing American culture, and therein lies the stress... but what can we do? America's not gonna pull funding for kids in its borders and everyone knows it, so all they have to do is get here, pop the baby out and BAM, it gets all kinds of benefits.

But as I said, what can we do? Tell the kid to go starve in the streets of mexico? Deport it for their parents lack of respect for our economy? Or just choose not to fund it because of its parent's lineage and geographical affiliations? Discrimination at its finest, and America doesn't want that, we're trying to be perfect, remember? :)


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Response to Immigrants don't pay taxes...? 2011-06-02 18:20:46 Reply

At 5/29/11 04:51 AM, Boredy-Mcbored wrote: An immigrant that buys from the local walmart pays income tax. Do these not count?

No, they pay sales tax and that comes standard with any purchase. They don't require any ID information.

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Response to Immigrants don't pay taxes...? 2011-06-03 17:50:46 Reply

At 5/30/11 09:25 PM, Proteas wrote: And you don't automatically get to say I'm wrong without backing up your assumptions, which leads me to my next statement...
Then find numbers of your own to refute them. Otherwise, they stand.

Yes but because there are not statistics stating how much money they put BACK into the economy it's not a strong argument against illegals. Thats like only looking at the money spent on advertising goods. Sure, companies may spend millions trying to buy an advertising spot on TV but the money they gain back from it might be double that amount. The amount spent or gained is only relevant when put against each other (Or I.E. Net Gained).

At 5/30/11 10:03 PM, Proteas wrote: How exactly does an illegal immigrant pay payroll taxes? Don't you have to have a Social Security Number for that, or are they just using someone's stolen social security number?

So the illegals in your family file tax returns? REALLY? Using what documentation?

They received Socials YEARS ago. It's all still valid to because of their work permits. The people in my family aren't thieves, sir.

You know damn well that's not what people get upset about when this subject comes up, quit playing coy.

Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut it's still a tax right...?

At 6/2/11 05:41 PM, Senmetsu wrote: First half of what you said.

THANK YOU. Someone gets it. Your preventing a some extra revenue if you just block them out like that.

But as I said, what can we do?

Make the immigration process a lot easier. You'll have less border hoppers or people who stay past their visa and more residents. I know if it were easier my mom would have applied to be a resident YEARS ago. She misses her home country a lot.

Tell the kid to go starve in the streets of mexico? Deport it for their parents lack of respect for our economy?

It makes me sad that people actually want to do these things. Ripping children away from their parents will only create more criminals or homegrown terrorist. I don't know what would happen to me if my mother got taken away. Sure I wouldn't be a criminal but I don't think I would last in a state home.

Discrimination at its finest, and America doesn't want that, we're trying to be perfect, remember? :)

Partly. The sad things is only Mexicans are really being pointed out. Things like that Arizona bill are ridiculous.


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Response to Immigrants don't pay taxes...? 2011-06-03 20:04:45 Reply

At 6/3/11 05:50 PM, Boredy-Mcbored wrote: Yes but because there are not statistics stating how much money they put BACK into the economy it's not a strong argument against illegals.

There are statistics for them, you're just to lazy to look them up. So here, let me google that for you.

Hm... first link from the Palm Beach Post shows they paid 7 Billion into Social Security last year. Would this really qualify as money being put back into the economy, since it's more of a welfare fund than it is a true retirement fund? I mean, you're not going out and buying brand new big-screen tv's and shit on a Social Security Check and still having the money to pay for basic essentials.

The second link spells it out pretty nicely; "Households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government in 2002 and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of $10.4 billion, or $2,700 per illegal household," said Steven A. Camarota, author of the study. Even though the numbers don't quite match up to what I posted earlier, the Center for Immigration Studies tends to be a little less biased, but still, not in your favor.

Want me to go on?

Oh, oh, here's a good one; the third link is directly from wikipedia, which has a nice little article entitled The Economic Impact of Illegal Immigrants in the United States. Skipping down to the section about Benefits versus Cost, we find that the Congressional Budget Office found the following in 2007;

- State and local governments incur costs for providing services to unauthorized immigrants and have limited options for avoiding or minimizing those costs;

- The amount that state and local governments spend on services for unauthorized immigrants represents a small percentage of the total amount spent by those governments to provide such services to residents in their jurisdictions;

- The tax revenues that unauthorized immigrants generate for state and local governments do not offset the total cost of services provided to those immigrants, although the impact is most likely modest; and

- Federal aid programs offer resources to state and local governments that provide services to unauthorized immigrants, but those funds do not fully cover the costs incurred by those governments.

As the bumper stick says, "We have charts and graphs to back us up, so fuck off."

They received Socials YEARS ago. It's all still valid to because of their work permits. The people in my family aren't thieves, sir.

You said you had illegals in your family paying taxes. I assumed, based on your statement, that they were, you know, HERE ILLEGALLY and subsequently DOING ILLEGAL SHIT. I apologize for nothing.

Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut it's still a tax right...?

Yes, but I imagine based on what I've already presented that any amount they pay in on sales tax is negligible at best, and not enough to offset the cost of them being here. It's like getting a big ego by telling people you donate to charity all the time, when all you really do is drop a dollar in the Salvation Army Bucket at Christmas and nothing for the rest of the year.


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Proteas
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Response to Immigrants don't pay taxes...? 2011-06-03 21:12:48 Reply

If you want to press the issue of "sales tax" even further, consider that most estimates put the number of illegal immigrants in this country at between 10 and 20 million out of a country of 308.7 Million at last check, making them between 3 to 6% of the population. You really want to tell me that less than 6% of the population -- which is supposed to be working the low-paying shit jobs that "no Americans want" -- really contribute THAT MUCH money to the sales tax? Or that they're that much of a vital part of the economy, especially when they're sending reported billions of dollars OUT of this country?

Immigrants don't pay taxes...?


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Demosthenez
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Response to Immigrants don't pay taxes...? 2011-06-04 22:11:57 Reply

Most legal Americans as it is pay no federal income taxes. 47% to be exact. Illegal aliens are not the only ones who have escaped the wrath of the taxman in America.

America is slowly developing into more of a pyramid scheme. The richest funnel benefits down to the poorest, who always want more, and contribute very little of value to the economy.

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Response to Immigrants don't pay taxes...? 2011-06-04 23:54:38 Reply

At 6/4/11 10:11 PM, Demosthenez wrote: Most legal Americans as it is pay no federal income taxes. 47% to be exact. Illegal aliens are not the only ones who have escaped the wrath of the taxman in America.

America is slowly developing into more of a pyramid scheme. The richest funnel benefits down to the poorest, who always want more, and contribute very little of value to the economy.

Relative to their own income the super-rich [multi million dollar earners] Do not pay AS MUCH in income tax.

The graph is very small but it is visible.

http://reason.com/assets/mc/jtaylor/vero tax1.jpg

So let's compare a "Rich" American who earns 70% of their, for example, 350,000 dollars a year from wages and salaries. And a "Super Rich" American who earns 15% of their 10,000,000 dollars a year from wages and salary.

Now I'm aware that you don't pay the same percentages of taxes on each threshold of income you earn, and so if the income tax for your bracket is 10%, you may only pay 10% on a portion of your income, but i for the sake of simplicity.

Let's say the top bracket rate is raised from approx 30 to 90%. The guy earning 350,000 dollars a year makes 65%, or 227500 dollars in income, 204750 is taxed away, leaving him with 145,250

The guy earning 10,000,000, earns 1,500,000 in income He would pay 1,350,000 but he would take home 8,650,000

Or to put in in other words. The guy earning 350,000 paid a 58.5% tax whereas the guy earning 10 million paid 13.5% tax

Progressive huh?

This is why guys like George Soros and Bill gates can advocate higher income taxes on the wealthy with a straight face. Because they know most Americans do not understand the difference between the ammount of money you earn each year and taxable income.

Now i Know that there ARE capital gains taxes that these guys would pay. But the point is that you don't see multi-millionares, and billionaires calling for higher capital gains taxes. And now hopefully you know why.

And the lesson in all of this is that the income tax is shouldered primarily by the upper middle class and what might be described as the up-and-coming-rich.


On a moving train there are no centrists, only radicals and reactionaries.

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Response to Immigrants don't pay taxes...? 2011-06-05 00:03:44 Reply

At 6/4/11 11:54 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: And the lesson in all of this is that the income tax is shouldered primarily by the upper middle class and what might be described as the up-and-coming-rich.

From what I have come to understand, this has more to do with demographics than anything else. Not income tax in particular but taxes in general, the middle class is where the money is. Namely, there are a lot more middle class people than their are people earning millions a year so they shoulder the tax burden. Interesting facts though.

On a side note, guess who will have to break his promise about no new taxes for the middle class if he wants to pay for his new program/current expenditure levels? Any takers :) ????