Nintendo was never hardcore.

[FlaminSquirrel]

Ever since the launch of the Wii, people started moaning and groaning about the casual market and how, for whatever freakish reason, Nintendo had left their "hardcore" market, as if they had only worked for the hardcore market, not children or casual gamers, up until the point of the Wii's release.

Well, that's a load of crock.

I'll start back with the NES. The Famicom's design was made to look like a toy so it would appeal to the children. In fact, that was their primary audience back then and of course forever: the children. Both the Famicom and NES would be marketed towards children. Peripherals such as ROB and the Power Pad only further proves that Nintendo aimed towards children and finding new ways for anyone to play a game (thus the casual market).

So you're probably thinking, "Well, the NES and SNES had a super-awesome library." You're right, it did. Do you know why? Because that's all they had. Back when the NES was released, it brought video games back into mainstream when the overflow of consoles from numerous companies dimmed interest since 1983. It was either that or Atari's failed consoles that were relatively weaker in both specs and games. When systems like the Genesis and PS1 started coming along, developers had more of a choice to what platform they wanted to present their games. Considerably, competitors offered stronger hardware that appealed to more than just children. So when Sony and Microsoft entered the fray, they basically set themselves up to the market Nintendo neglected since they started: the teen and adult gamers.

On top of that, most games that were published on Nintendo's systems before the ESRB was made were censored. Nintendo was clear about making their consoles family-friendly and, most of all, kid friendly. While popular titles like Doom and Mortal Kombat were published on the SNES, both were considerably censored, often removing blood or making it look like sweat. Even games like Final Fantasy, Zelda, and EarthBound were edited when released in North America because of religious references. Duke Nukem 3D on the N64 was toned down despite the ESRB's creation, just an example on how Nintendo's censorship rulings take it further than the early years.

With all this, I'd say that Nintendo was never really hardcore, provided they did have nice core titles. But under the circumstances early developers had with choice of platform and age group, there really wasn't a whole lot to go on. That's just my two cents, but in understanding all of this, do you agree? Disagree? Let me hear your side of the story.

[RyanBustersword123]

well i agree with that, older audience mostly quit gaming,but the younger audience just loves game and they are a lot more that the older one
and even with that, nentendo is the only system that doesn't features any adult themes in its systems, and i agree with that because adult themes often bring shame to the company
oh and Genesis was never a competer
and nentendo is the one responsible for the playstation because they wanted partnership with sony so they can make the nentendo-cd, sony changed it mind after reading the agreement that states that nentendo has the property of nentendo-cd so sony made playstaion by herself [nentendo partnered with philip first then sony, and philp also made a system the same way as sony except the fact that it SUCKED it had 3 almost unknown zelda games WHICH ALSO SUCKED]

[iMini]

didn't Contra start on the NES? And weren't games back then made incredibly hard for the sake of increasing play time?

[The-Great-One]

At 5/26/11 10:57 AM, H-A-X-O-R-Z wrote: didn't Contra start on the NES? And weren't games back then made incredibly hard for the sake of increasing play time?

-Ninja Gaiden
-CastleVania
-Ghosts 'N Goblins
-Final Fantasy

Yeah they were.

[Anti-pie]

At 5/26/11 11:43 AM, Addict wrote:

:Yeah they were.

All of those games are classics and highly awesome didn't battletoads start on the NES

Yes.

[SoulMaster71]

Nintendo was traditionally mass-appeal, it's obvious. Not specifically casual entertainment software like Nintendogs that doesn't deserve to be called a game, not specifically core titles like the Zelda and Metroid games. It produced stuff for every kind of gamer. That only stands out nowadays because gaming for so long was getting more and more "ghettoized" with darker, gorier, M-rated games with complicated control schemes that only certain gamers could get into (even a lot of the really good ones, like the Assassin's Creed series, would be difficult for the Wii Sports/Fit/Play/Music/Sodomy crowd to figure out) taking more of the market, and Nintendo's the one who openly defied that trend with their highly successful market-( and controller-)shaking Wii.

[Rallard]

Play through Super Mario Bros 3 again and tell me that game was casual.

[FlaminSquirrel]

At 5/26/11 04:34 PM, Rallard wrote: Play through Super Mario Bros 3 again and tell me that game was casual.

Nintendo's prime target for games then and now are mostly children and casual gamers, i.e. people who don't game 24/7 till their dying breath. Super Mario Bros. 3 would fall under that category because it's simple to pick up and play a level or two on a break, yet offers replay value and secrets to those who wanted more. They advertised it for children because A) that was their main audience and B) they knew they would waste a lot of time on it, making it a popular game.

So yeah, Super Mario Bros. 3 is casual. "A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet", y'know. Don't mean it's bad, but it was marketed for children, it's a very accessible game, but it did offer more to the soon-to-be-called "hardcore" gamers because games are time-wasters. You can either waste a small or large amount of time to it, both of which presented worthy awards for either amounts of time.

[Chdonga]

Nintendo's best selling game is neither rated T or M, nor is it a shooting game. This alone means it's casual.

[SpiderTaco]

Thanks for pointing out the obvious there.

[FlaminSquirrel]

At 5/26/11 05:43 PM, Chdonga wrote: Nintendo's best selling game is neither rated T or M, nor is it a shooting game. This alone means it's casual.

That's the exact opposite of what I mean. It's not that Nintendo's games are for children, but AIMED mainly towards children, which is a large portion of their audience. The Mario and Pokemon games are a good example of that. Of course, they have catered to the more hardcore players over recent years, such as the Metroid Prime games and Twilight Princess for example. Yet Nintendo's primary, and financial, goal relies on the kids.

At 5/26/11 05:45 PM, SpiderTaco wrote: Thanks for pointing out the obvious there.

You'd be surprised on how many people actually don't know this.

[ZJ]

Go play Earthbound on the SNES and fight the final boss. Are you going to tell me that going back in time to kill an alien fetus isn't hardcore?

[Blaze-Heatnix]

At 5/26/11 08:49 PM, ZJ wrote: Go play Earthbound on the SNES and fight the final boss. Are you going to tell me that going back in time to kill an alien fetus isn't hardcore?

Hardcore =/= mature. And that's more risque than mature anyway.

[FlaminSquirrel]

At 5/26/11 08:57 PM, Blaze-Heatnix wrote: Hardcore =/= mature. And that's more risque than mature anyway.

Thank you.

Guys, I'm not saying that all of Nintendo's games are casual or for kids, nor am I saying that Nintendo doesn't cater to the hardcore, but the main THE MAIN audience that Nintendo relies on are the kids. If you cut out kids out of the total audience and sales, you'd find that Nintendo would have a lot less than say Microsoft or Sony.

I made this topic because, for whatever reason, people think that Nintendo's primary target had always been the hardcore fans, and when the Wii was released they believed Nintendo gave up on their audience as if they HAD been for the hardcore. Nintendo's always been more towards the kids and casual gamers, and AS STATED casual =/= waggle fest or games with no depth (because that's just shovelware). Casual means a market in which people don't live, breath, and sleep games like hardcore gamers. And sometimes the wagglefests are abused to attract them because they're easy to pick up and play. That's been Nintendo's shtick for a loooooooooooooong time. Accessibility towards all audiences, primarily kids and non-gamers.

And yes, as I said, there are a lot of "hardcore" titles for the NES and SNES and so-on, but that's because that was pretty much all developers had at the time. When competition started rising up like Sega's Genesis and Sony's PlayStation and Microsoft's Xbox, developers could do more than what Nintendo's consoles can do for them -- and it became blatantly more obvious this generation.

Casual =/= bad, nor does it mean anything else but easy to pick-up and play. And that's what Nintendo's been doing since it joined the gaming industry. That's what they'll keep doing.

[Slug-Gunner]

At 5/26/11 11:42 AM, The-Great-One wrote:

At 5/26/11 10:57 AM, H-A-X-O-R-Z wrote: didn't Contra start on the NES? And weren't games back then made incredibly hard for the sake of increasing play time?

-Ninja Gaiden
-CastleVania
-Ghosts 'N Goblins
-Final Fantasy

Yeah they were.

And don't forget the Megaman series

:CURSE THE YELLOW DEVIL!!!

[orangebomb]

At 5/26/11 09:32 AM, FlaminSquirrel wrote: I'll start back with the NES. The Famicom's design was made to look like a toy so it would appeal to the children. In fact, that was their primary audience back then and of course forever: the children. Both the Famicom and NES would be marketed towards children. Peripherals such as ROB and the Power Pad only further proves that Nintendo aimed towards children and finding new ways for anyone to play a game (thus the casual market).

I agree with you there, but back then there wasn't as many "hardcore" gamers as they're are today, if they even existed at all. Also, back in the 80's, video games were considered entertainment for kids, even if it wasn't always the case. No one back then had even heard of hardcore gamers or casual gamers, considering they viewed them as the same thing, unlike today.

On top of that, most games that were published on Nintendo's systems before the ESRB was made were censored. Nintendo was clear about making their consoles family-friendly and, most of all, kid friendly. While popular titles like Doom and Mortal Kombat were published on the SNES, both were considerably censored, often removing blood or making it look like sweat. Even games like Final Fantasy, Zelda, and EarthBound were edited when released in North America because of religious references. Duke Nukem 3D on the N64 was toned down despite the ESRB's creation, just an example on how Nintendo's censorship rulings take it further than the early years.

Well, as I said before, video games were orginally targeted for kids, so back then, Nintendo didn't want to jepordize the American market by doing anything controversial. In retrospect, it really is kind of stupid that they have those types of policies then, but at the time, they didn't want to take a risk alienating parents in the late 80's and early 90's who bought the games for their kids. Only when there was more choices in consoles did gaming evolved into a respected form of entertainment for adults.

With all this, I'd say that Nintendo was never really hardcore, provided they did have nice core titles. But under the circumstances early developers had with choice of platform and age group, there really wasn't a whole lot to go on. That's just my two cents, but in understanding all of this, do you agree? Disagree? Let me hear your side of the story.

I don't really ever recall hearing about hardcore gamers in the 80's and early 90's, and even if there was, no one really ever heard of them until the 6th or 7th generation of consoles. At times, Nintendo did at least attempt to get into the "hardcore" gamer group with games like Conker's, Goldeneye, Madworld and No More Heroes, but only Goldeneye had any major success in terms of game sales, whereas the rest of them are more novelties than anything else, unfortunely.

[II2none]

Well they definately aren't "hardcore" these days way to focused on mario. What I care about is the Wii always getting halfassed third party games like it's some kind a last gen console.

If I still had my xbox I wouldn't care but since I don't well that's double standard for ya.

[Steaksies]

NES and SNES was the real deal. N64 was okay, but ever since game-cube, nintendo has clearly and consciously been catering to a younger audience.

Which is too bad.

[8Bit-Joe]

I don't really understand why it matters that much and why people brag they are "hardcore" or "old school" gamers. I play mostly older games, but I don't brag or bash newer generation stuff. Also, FPS isn't an automatic sign that you are a "hardcore gamer". If anything, that makes you a "mainstream" gamer. It was like that back in the 90's except the market over flooded with fighters.

[KiDX05]

Only this gen in gaming is fucking easy, few games dare to challenge us anymore.

[link4president]

At 5/27/11 04:06 AM, KiDX05 wrote: Only this gen in gaming is fucking easy, few games dare to challenge us anymore.

Yeah i agree with ya

[Cootie]

Back in the NES and SNES era there really wasn't such a thing as hardcore and casual unless you were some super PC gamer and whatnot. Back then nearly all the games were casual and Nintendo had some of the best hardware out there.

[Lordboy54]

... And? who gives a shit if they are hardcore or not?

Play their games if you want. I don't fucking know why there is a discussion about this.

[FlaminSquirrel]

At 5/27/11 03:46 PM, Lordboy54 wrote: ... And? who gives a shit if they are hardcore or not?

Play their games if you want. I don't fucking know why there is a discussion about this.

Wow, it's like people don't even know how to read plain English anymore.

I made this topic to discuss to Nintendo haters as of this generation that Nintendo has never considered the hardcore gamer to be a main audience. Their main, and largest, audience is kids and non-gamers since they started. And for once more: I DO NOT MEAN NINTENDO'S GAMES ARE BAD OR ALL OF THEM ARE FOR KIDS.

[EtchASketchClock]

hardcore you say?

[GodOfVideoGames]

"Hardcore" gaming didn't exist when Nintendo started making video games. Gamers were just Gamers and not this whole Hardcore/Casual Gamer horse shit, the way it should be.

[Krbyfan1]

At 5/27/11 03:10 AM, Steaksies wrote: NES and SNES was the real deal. N64 was okay, but ever since game-cube, nintendo has clearly and consciously been catering to a younger audience.

Which is too bad.

People are oblivious to the Nintendo strategy. Think about it, Nintendo has been the only constant through the console era dating way back to the 80's when they helped bring back the industry from the brink of collapse. They did this on the platform of making simple games that really anyone could enjoy. They made commercials which usually show younger people playing the games but also threw in older folks as well.

Here lies their power in marketing. The games you consider "kiddy" "not hardcore" games are games that have the widest appeal to the worldwide audience. Instead of catering to a very small window of 18-30 somethings they make games that carry not only brand familiarity, but an appeal to a wide number of people including, yes, the "kiddies" and the "casuals".

While the "hardcore" await the new Gears of War or Call of Duty only to trash it as garbage or THE GREATEST GAME EVAR MAED the "casuals" go pick up the latest Mario or what have you, which usually boasts an attractive track record (For every widely panned Mario game made, you can probably find at least a dozen other ones that were generally well received) and have fun with it no matter the critic score.

Nintendo thrives not on DLC and squeezing the life out of a game before they make the next installment but the fact they have an established fan base of a wide variety of ages, backgrounds, and lifestyles. They have a style that reaches younger gamers who do not know "how good it was" and instead look to an audience who hasn't seen much before. This is why I see a whole bunch of people here yell about the next shootan game because it's just a cookie cutter with a new wall paper and a new gadget or two because they've seen it before.

Nintendo survives because they wow the rookies and are not trying to please the old codgers. Sega, Atari, and any other company that released a console failed to do the same thing (The jury is out on Xbox and Playstation but they're still here despite being a smaller fraction of their parent companies revenue. Microsoft has all their software and PC sales and Sony has audio and video equipment such as cameras and TV's, whereas Nintendo focuses almost all their energy on games.) People such as myself become jaded as the years go by and breaths of fresh air are harder and harder to come by.

You may see a new Mario and think nothing of it, but to a small child just getting into games it is not only a safe bet, but most likely a familiar one due to to his or her parents saying "Oh they'd like this. You remember Mario back then?" And one day that kid will grow old and probably think the same thing you do right now, but then another child will see the latest Mario game, and the cycle continues.

You think they don't know "the good old days" but to them, those memories they have will become their "good old days." As such, Nintendo gets them while they're young. And you know what? It's working. Nintendo is still around after 3 decades in the video game market, and while they may not last forever, their minds are in the right place at the right time.

[Wolfos]

At 5/27/11 05:05 PM, GodOfVideoGames wrote: "Hardcore" gaming didn't exist when Nintendo started making video games. Gamers were just Gamers and not this whole Hardcore/Casual Gamer horse shit, the way it should be.

Yep, and it seems the whole casual thing is dying now. The Wii balance boards are out of stock everywhere, and not because they sell so many, but because nobody buys them anymore.

[The-Great-One]

At 5/27/11 04:41 PM, EtchASketchClock wrote: hardcore you say?

And that proves what? Hardcore collector sure, but that's it.

[EtchASketchClock]

At 5/27/11 09:20 PM, The-Great-One wrote:

At 5/27/11 04:41 PM, EtchASketchClock wrote: hardcore you say?

And that proves what? Hardcore collector sure, but that's it.

A custom cart for use in Nintendo-hosted tournaments isn't "hardcore"?