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Nope, right now this thing is in DISCUSSION MODE. We are bringing up new ideas, discussing old ones, and all in all making sure this is layed out properly.

BEFORE POSTING PLEASE READ THIS! This list contains everything we have gone over so far. Feel free to discuss it if you disagree with it, bring new points up, or PM me for info / if you want to be a judge or do some other help in promoting this.

1.) The album should include new songs not available on the portal. We will have various, short termed contests for each theme and choose the top winners to be added into the specific theme album.

2.) Due to the inability to determine if people will enjoy the fact that the album has multiple genres on it, we should instead develop multiple themed albums based around certain genres that fit well together. Each album will be sold to the NG store with about 20+ songs on each album.

3.)Since there are so many people that will be put on the albums, we should donate all funds towards charity. Otherwise, everyone would get only $10 or so for condoms and electricity bills.

4.) The list of genres for each album can include:

- Heartwarming, serious themed album based around the orchestral, folk, jazz, solos, and classical genres."
- Upbeat, dance/grindcore themed album based around Dubstep, Drum N Bass, progressive, and trance."
- Hardcore, brutal themed album based around metal, rock, face melters, and others."
- Chill, visual themed album based around ambient, pop, drone, 8-bit, and experimental/glitch.

5.)vIn order to decide who get's in each album, we will create four separate contests that each revolve around a specific theme with certain genres. Everyone who would like to enter would create their song for the said theme and upload it in a loseless format to the given online private uploading service such as Bandcamp. This way, everyones music will only be available for the judges / anyone who gets the password from the individual track.

6.) Once the contest is over, a team of judges and I will use a judging sheet to determine which the best tracks are. This "judging sheet" wlll most likely be out of 100 points and will be judged based on Quality, Fit, Originality, e.t.c. Only we judges have to worry about this though! :)

7.) Everyone who doesn't make it in will then be allowed to submit their song on the NG Audio Portal for proper criticism and suggestions. The main reasoning behind letting EVERYONE submit a newly made piece is to give EVERYONE a chance at getting into this. If someone ends up working hard and not making it in, then at least they can say they tried their best and therefore improved!

8.) Each album will be designed by someone over on the art portal.

9.) Each album will be mastered and mixed properly from a professional quality technician over here.

10.) We can promote and sell this album in just more than the NG store! With proper research on security to prevent piracy, we can sell this album in Itunes, ReverbNation, e.t.c. but it will mainly be created for Newgrounds by Newgrounds ro promote the Newgrounds audio community and Newgrounds as a whole... NEWGROUNDS.

At 5/30/11 03:56 PM, camoshark wrote: I probably missed the query, but in the advent that it WILL be sold on other sites, will the revenue go to the artists if it's sufficient enough that it's worthwhile?

All profits made from this will go towards charity, since the purpose of this is to gather the audio community together for a massive collaboration to help get everyone experience, online friendships, and promote their work along the way to show that there truly is a lot of hidden talent in the underrated spectrum of the audio portal here on Newgrounds. Since there are going to be over 120+ people helping with this project, there is no right way to split funds amongst ourselves. Therefore, most of us have decided to give the profits to charity. Even if we were to split the funs amongst ourselves, we would all get just enough to get a really, REALLY cheap hooker. ;)

I agree with all of your ideas so far. I'm hoping to put myself on the Classical Album( i just finished a track that has yet to be published on newgrounds that would work perfectly for it)

At 5/30/11 07:18 PM, jarrydn wrote:

At 5/30/11 07:08 PM, NimblekidX wrote: I agree with all of your ideas so far. I'm hoping to put myself on the Classical Album( i just finished a track that has yet to be published on newgrounds that would work perfectly for it)

Except for the fact that if it's already on newgrounds, it can't go on the cd.

lol,i just said i have yet to publish it.

At 5/31/11 12:17 AM, jarrydn wrote: Sorry mate, to me "yet to be published" sounds pretty synonymous with "pending approval" :3

WHICH COULD BE CHANGED BY YOU SIR. PERHAPS ITS A CRY FOR HELP.

Oh snap crackle pop shit just hit the fan.

At 5/30/11 03:44 PM, FatKidWitAJetPak wrote: DISCUSSION MODE.

This sounds like an awesome idea. I definitely want to get involved in this, and the ideas that people have thought of so far are really good. B'marking this page for now, as I don't think I have any ideas to add that haven't been said already.

At 5/31/11 02:57 AM, jarrydn wrote: Would you not consider this classical?

i know it's a cover, but pretend that it's not.

Although it is more synth induced, that is orchestral which is in the classical spectrum yes. :)

At 5/31/11 04:54 AM, jarrydn wrote: Oh wow, I posted that in the wrong thread. How surprisingly relevant

Oh, well then... thats quite odd.

This sounds very very interesting. Put me in for the orchestral album :D

At 5/30/11 03:44 PM, FatKidWitAJetPak wrote: 4.) The list of genres for each album can include:

- Heartwarming, serious themed album based around the orchestral, folk, jazz, solos, and classical genres."
- Upbeat, dance/grindcore themed album based around Dubstep, Drum N Bass, progressive, and trance."
- Hardcore, brutal themed album based around metal, rock, face melters, and others."
- Chill, visual themed album based around ambient, pop, drone, 8-bit, and experimental/glitch.

Well, I think that it is not good to put Drum & Bass together with Progressive and Trance.
Personally, I don't mind that, because I like both Drum & Bass and Progressive (along with other similar genres like House). Electro House would, maybe, go well with Drum & Bass, but Trance... never.

Other than that I would be glad to participate in the electronic album contest. :)

Well, to respond to these genre comments, I believe mixig DnB with trance and progressive isn't all that bad of an idea. I have seen many raves and live broadcasts where DnB and Dubstep are fluently mixed into a trance / progressive mood. Take Hamiltons "Breathe" for example. That song is a DnB / trance hybrid. It works very well, in my opinion. Where else would DnB go if it didn't go in the trance album?

At 5/29/11 10:07 AM, Supersteph54 wrote: This is why I suggested that we post our best tracks and then the artists with the highest quality music get chosen to make a new track, rather than everyone making a new track and the best tracks get chosen for the CD.

Yeah, and I completely agree with it. I just seen that wasnt in the..what will we call it, original manifesto? :P

As for the conversation and debate, im agree with supersteph original case which witholds mispointed facts, basically - toward the show what we can do by our previous submissions. That means people can create something to get a place. Afterall this is a NG's cd, it should be produced by people who are at NG's, not by people who want to get their track on a cd and then leave. If they are a newcomer, then to show they are serious about it, you could put something in their audio area as an example. Isnt it a bit you know spin it on its head if NG's trying to sell a cd from people who could have just jumped in now because they have googled "get your music on cd". Or something like that. If Bjra or whoever gets in, thats what you should want...those are the massive artists who get people interested. People want to know that it's a certified good product by the consistent and recognised names.

If you go out with £15 to buy a CD, do you spend it on a new album by your fav band? Or blow it on a band you've never heard of. The chances are you'll go, research the new band, then make the choice. People dont want uncertainty in a product, they want clarification. I know you're all talking about being fair, but we need to be commercially wise too. I'd like to think NG's could hand over a great amount of proceedings to charity, but if only 2 people by the cd because its produced by people who have 1 or 2 audio tracks in their library then we'll kick ourselves for such a simple mistake.

Thanks for discussing all these points btw, i enjoy a good debate with an awesome goal! I appologise for the lack of input from me, I will try harder to reply tomorrow, but after that you wont hear until saturday. (Away to London to see the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra play movie scores!---Cant wait!)

I don't think we need another thread full of people just posting links to tracks though. They can make a post like Echo's just above saying that they're interested and which album they'd like to contribute to, then whoever is judging can have a look at one or two of their relevant songs.

Or something.

We are trying to decide if we should...

1.) Have everyone submit previously made tracks to us. From there we will pick out the best artists we hear and ask them each to produce a new track, depending on their genre, for the album.

2.) Let everyone produce a new track for the album and choose the best tracks made to put on the album.

Here are the pros and cons of the two: ***Feel free to add to this! This is a pros and cons list based around my personal opinions***

-Option 1-

If we have everyone submit a previously made track, and pick out the best artists we hear based on those tracks to submit work to the album, then that means:

Pros:
- It would be easier and quicker, promoting the good artists on the site. Many underrated artists would be discovered if they have good music on the site. There is a lot of good music on here, but there is also a lot of crap and the good stuff seems to get lost in it.

- Posting past tracks will be like a treasure hunt, showing the hidden gems of the portal. The good artists with tracks would have a better chance of properly being recognized.

Cons:
- Just because they make good tracks now, doesn't mean they won't screw up and make a non-suitable track for the album, resulting in a major delay and hassle we shouldn't need to deal with.

- We wouldn't be giving everyone a chance to be on the album, since we would only be judging based on work submitted here. Many, many artists on Newgrounds haven't submitted their best works simply because they feel disheartened from the harsh environment of the portal.

- The purpose of this collaboration isn't only to promote great artists! This collaboration is meant to strengthen the audio community as a whole, letting people gain experience by making the best track they can make, letting people receive and give critique on everyones works, and building online friendships along the way based on this. If we simply include artists based on past performance... then we wouldn't be letting anyone else have any fun, now would we?

Option 2

If we let everyone produce a new track using all their best efforts, and pick the best tracks to be put into the album, then that means:

Pros:
- A pool of inspiration and passion would arise, allowing for the audio community to put forth their best efforts to produce a newly made track, resulting in a gain in experience, the recieving and giving of critique across the portal, and all in all bring the community together into a collaboration.

- This option would give everyone a chance to prove themselves worthy! Just because someone doesn;t have a good song up on NG, doesn't mean they aren't good at making music. Many people here get extremely discouraged from the harsh environment of the portal, believing that the score on the screen matters massively. Being able to make a track for the album would really give that person a chance to proove themselves and recieve proper critique for getting better.

- This could surely help remove writers block and help people learn new things about creating audio.

Cons:
- There would be more things to judge, so a large judging team would be needed to write critique everything into an organized list of the best of the best.

- Some people might become discouraged if they work really hard on making a track and don't get in.

it should be produced by people who are at NG's, not by people who want to get their track on a cd and then leave. If they are a newcomer, then to show they are serious about it, you could put something in their audio area as an example. Isnt it a bit you know spin it on its head if NG's trying to sell a cd from people who could have just jumped in now because they have googled "get your music on cd".

The thing is, no newcomers will get on this album at all because for one, they have to be approved before submitting any work onto the portal. Plus, why would an outsider even realize this contest existed? Google has a vast list of possabillities... unless they literally typed in something like "NG BBS NG CD JOIN", then no outsider would even realized this existed. Also, even if newcomers did pose a threat, they would for BOTH options, since people come come in all wily nilly and post their music... but newcomers really dont post a threat to this because audio has to be approved before submitting it to newgrounds. If Bjra gets in, your right that is what we want. However, he would get in EITHER WAY because he is good at what he does. Both options will allow the good to get in, but I believe option 1 will allow for many, many others to have an opportunity, while fostering a community, increasing experience, and tugging along a nice pool of critique along the way.

If you go out with £15 to buy a CD, do you spend it on a new album by your fav band? Or blow it on a band you've never heard of. The chances are you'll go, research the new band, then make the choice. People dont want uncertainty in a product, they want clarification.

Most people will not know about the audio portal guys with either option. However, we have many ways of appealing to the public and community of NG. With the help of Tom Fulp promoting this, we can certainly make it seem like a great album. It's all about giving clarification based on sending everyone samples of the album, not based on what people already know about the people in it. Besides, people like discovering new things.

Thanks for discussing all these points btw, i enjoy a good debate with an awesome goal! I appologise for the lack of input from me, I will try harder to reply tomorrow, but after that you wont hear until saturday. (Away to London to see the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra play movie scores!---Cant wait!)

Thanks for discussing this further with us! I hope I don't come out as bitter, I'm simply stating my opinion on things.

Oh, just to clarify I pick Option 2 but further discussion should be brought up on it. It's a very important topic, seeing as it decides who gets a chance to participate.

Hmm... I think with option 2 there seems to be something missing. Wouldn't the judging technically be easier in a sense, since we'll only be listening to one track, and it'll encompass both the process of getting accepted in writing for the album AND getting a particular track chosen? Option 1 you'd need to judge the person's batting average, then find the best of the best, then chose which tracks are best for the albums. Double dipping is no fun.

That seems to be yet another perk to #2. BTW, if I didn't mention it before I'm all for #2.

I'm more inclined towards option #2 myself since, personally speaking, each new song I make improves a lot from my previous one so judging my current skill by taking my old songs isn't particularly fair. I think this would also apply to a lot of other artists who are also still improving since, if they're anything like me, I always start a new piece by taking the old one and listing what I did wrong. So I guess that's another pro to option #2 there.

I would be interested in joining this contest, and I would also think that #2 would be the better option.

I think when you made those choices, you never really worded it so that anyone would choose #1 lol... I'm up for #2 and my song is at 85% complete.

At 6/1/11 04:46 AM, Supersteph54 wrote: I'm still up for #1. #1 is also more flexible because you can submit a previously made track to get chosen, but nobody's stopping you from making a new one (my point was that you don't HAVE to submit an older song, but you can if you want), which rules out the last two cons of Option #1. It's true that somebody who made awesome music may suddenly make a piece of crap, but I don't think that's very likely.

Alright, here's the problem with it. #1 has an unnecessary step in it. Sorting artists into who should contribute and who shouldn't is a redundancy in the process. Worse, it's something that will take more time away from the quality control judges - whereas before they'd look through whoever submit music, now they're looking at whoever is going to submit music AND those that actually submit music. Even worse than that, it's a system that favors those that submit frequently over those that don't post as often, since they'll have more to chose from. Sure, people CAN make something for the sake of finding out if they're accepted or not, but why would they want to do that when they know they're going to need to make another track afterward? Or, in the case that the judges can accept any presented track and put it on the album, why is there a separate judging process to begin with?

The only thing that extra step serves is to save spots for the artists that are already fairly prolific on the portal. I don't like the favoritism/elitism that would inevitably occur in that system (it's an inherent flaw in the system, there's not much that you can do about that).

I think Option #1 is better because it's simply more flexible. In my opinion we should allow people to post old tracks of theirs and then a handful get chosen to make music for the album. It may turn out to be a bit more of a longer process than Option #2 but it's the best approach, the way I see it.

It's not flexible, at all, and I don't see why you think it is. It's more strain on the judges, it favorites those that are frequent posters by adding extra work to those that are not, and it is completely redundant otherwise. Option two gets rid of all these issues without any other issues occurring. How is the first method more flexible than the second?

... and I thought people have already been over why submitting previously submitted tracks on NG wouldn't be a good idea? People will feel terribly ripped off if many/most of the tracks on the album are available elsewhere for free - even if it's hard to find otherwise, people do not like the idea of purchasing something that is legally free. It'll be very bad for sales, and it'll create customer dissatisfaction, leading to a collapse in the product.

It's... just not a good idea, at all.

At 5/31/11 07:19 PM, FatKidWitAJetPak wrote: Thanks for discussing this further with us! I hope I don't come out as bitter, I'm simply stating my opinion on things.

Not at all, actually, now that I think about it, yeah, I would like this to be a bigger thing, and so a supplied track for judging may be a better process. As you say, the good will get in. However be aware that google can bring in people. In fact when i was searchin for headphones, a post on ng's was amongst them saying, what headphones should I buy? That aside though, when i come to think of it, wheres the community fun if only say 12 artists per album were pm'ed to say make a track. Then that's it... the event becomes empty.

At 5/31/11 10:21 PM, Gario wrote:

:Wouldn't the judging technically be easier in a sense, since we'll only be listening to one track, and it'll encompass both the process of getting accepted in writing for the album AND getting a particular track chosen? Option 1 you'd need to judge the person's batting average, then find the best of the best, then chose which tracks are best for the albums. Double dipping is no fun.

Well, the first one would be also shown via examples. So you would put up your fav track you've made. Not link to your profile or post 10tracks, that would take forever. So it wouldnt take longer than option2. If anything it would be quicker, option 2 requires you to wait say a month to make a track, the say a 2 week judging process on all tracks. Option 1 allows you to post 1 track existing and then be judged say in a week, then final track is done say over three.

Your misreading SS. he doesnt mean post an old piece for the cd, he means post an old piece to be judged on. It means if someone wants to make a new track then they can to show they're good enough, however if someone has existing works then they simply post that. Thats why its flexible, it wouldnt force people to make a track, and potentially waste a lot of time, it gives the freedom of newcomers and those who regularly post. There is no unfair conduct as we all end up posting one track as an example, old or new to show if were going to be chosen.

I have not chosen 1 or 2, im still in debate with myself.