Newgrounds.com — Everything, By Everyone.

At 5/29/11 11:20 AM, poxpower wrote:

At 5/28/11 11:02 PM, Iron-Hampster wrote:

take that story however you want to, I thought it was trippy.

Let me get this straight, I come back over and over again, TO LEARN and yet each time my memory is wiped clean?

???

yep, lol.

At 5/29/11 06:25 PM, Iron-Hampster wrote:

At 5/29/11 11:20 AM, poxpower wrote:

At 5/28/11 11:02 PM, Iron-Hampster wrote:

take that story however you want to, I thought it was trippy.

Let me get this straight, I come back over and over again, TO LEARN and yet each time my memory is wiped clean?

???

yep, lol.

So basically God is directing a mediocre Adam Sandler movie casting us as Ms. Barrymore?

... not one of the more enticing arguments I've heard.

To be brief, anyone that is not a fundamentalist or a child needs to adapt their beliefs to compensate for the imperfections of the world - to fail to do so opens the door for ones faith eroding when ones intellect matures. An example would be when you find out that santa inst real ... you take the same conclusion and apply it to God...but God is far more abstract than santa and sinply disallowing the chance to reconcile your faith due to lack of empirical evidence isnt giving your dilemma a fair evaluation.

At 5/29/11 07:50 PM, Ravariel wrote:

So basically God is directing a mediocre Adam Sandler movie casting us as Ms. Barrymore?

Woah, I've forgotten just about everything that was in that movie!

OH MY GOD WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?

At 5/29/11 10:39 PM, poxpower wrote:

At 5/29/11 07:50 PM, Ravariel wrote:

So basically God is directing a mediocre Adam Sandler movie casting us as Ms. Barrymore?

Woah, I've forgotten just about everything that was in that movie!

OH MY GOD WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?

It means god has a terrible sense of humor.

but in all fairness to the guy who wrote it i was paraphrasing and also left out the part where the guy was going to become a god himself when he finished living the life of every single human being on earth.

This is definitely an answer you can only come up with yourself, but consider this:

What is your definition of God?

Keeping that in mind, consider the magnitude of what "God" is. It's immense- it's infinite. It's absolutely beyond the comprehension of any human being. You have been raised (as was I) with a specific idea for the nature of God- but what are the odds of us actually being able to comprehend anything about the way God actually IS?

I suggest keeping an open mind throughout your life. You don't need a God to make life livable or even enjoyable, so just go about it as you like. If you want to know answers, look around for yourself. In time, things will slowly piece themselves together. None of us will ever really know the real answers, but it's up to the individual to decide their view for themselves.

If you'd like to know how I think about these things, check out my article on Physiomonistic Pantheism.

I think it's somewhat less likely than the universe existing forever, or being "reborn" in a cycle of big bangs, or just coming into existence out of nothing. I sure as hell don't think there is a sentient being that intentionally and personally creates and watches over every human. Just thinking about it blows my mind how some people can believe that shit. Just the idea of something like that is so very human, and impossible.

Also, one more thing I've noticed reading these types of threads, the religious people always end up saying "I don't feel like going into detail on a forum" or some variant of that when they run out of bullshit to reply with.

At 5/21/11 10:02 PM, NecroBeast wrote: If there is a god why does he allow his own people to suffer , everyday there are murder cases , (even littel kids). If he is such a great god, then why can't he just fix everything , instead of letting the world tear it's self apart.

Well that just comes down to the free will argument. As an atheist I find it very difficult to understand that idea myself (especially since the idea of God is hypothetical). Yes God does not intervene when even the most terrible actions happen to even innocent people. Considering the alternative that everyone always does the right thing guided by direct control from God, then everyone would be an extension of God. So its kind of a bad consequence of God producing individuality.

The response I received from some friends who are Christian to this argument is. Faith in God is not a one way deal, God wants to have faith in you. Everyone has a dark nature and God wants to believe that you can rise above it.

Convince you that God/heaven/hell etc exist? No one can do that, otherwise there wouldn't be any atheists and only one faith in the world. But personally I don't agree with the idea of mainstream Christian afterlife. Its so unfair that you can receive the same punishment/reward with no consideration of your environment and the severity of your actions. I agree much more with the idea of Islamic hell, where you are shown the consequences of your actions all throughout your life for all eternity.

At 5/30/11 10:49 PM, bobomajo wrote: Considering the alternative that everyone always does the right thing guided by direct control from God

Yeah like, say, you don't want fries with your burger. Considering the alternative that you'd have a pile of stale deer shits, well, it's so wonder you'd want fries with your burger!

The response I received from some friends who are Christian to this argument is. Faith in God is not a one way deal, God wants to have faith in you. Everyone has a dark nature and God wants to believe that you can rise above it.

If only God weren't also alleged not only to be omniscient, but that his righteousness is in part justified by his supposedly acting on it.

Convince you that God/heaven/hell etc exist? No one can do that, otherwise there wouldn't be any atheists and only one faith in the world.

People convince and become convinced of things all the time.

But personally I don't agree with the idea of mainstream Christian afterlife. Its so unfair that you can receive the same punishment/reward with no consideration of your environment and the severity of your actions.

What other truths to you believe because the alternative is unfair? What other things don't you believe in because they're unfair?

Uuarrgh

hahaha whats your problem man?

At 5/30/11 11:23 PM, bobomajo wrote: hahaha whats your problem man?

Yup. Pick up solely on the least topical element of my post. Aren't you the genuine article.

Well the idea of a God is one of those things in life that are un disprovable. because one can basically make up any excuse for god they want.

However there is strong evidence, even in the bible itself that the christian interpretation of "God" probably dosnt exist. Does this mean that there is no god at all? no.just means that god dosnt exist. maybe there IS a god out there in the farthest reaches of space. we havnt seen the universe yet so its hard to tell.

Religion was used for man to try to explain why things happen the way they do, reason for war, and to control the masses.

I used to be a Catholic, and I started reading more of the Bible. The stories in there are not very believable.

Science has explained why most things happen, and how we were created. Religion IMO is outdated. I respect people who believe in religion, but I refuse to believe it.

well the existence or nonexistence of god cannot be proven. nobody will ever point a telescope somewhere in the natural universe and say "look there's god." or some equivalent thing. so without the possibility of ever having proof that he exists, it really ends up being a matter of "do i want to believe in god" rather than "does god exist." if you want to, you can have faith and believe he exists, and nobody will ever be able to prove you wrong. if you don't want to, you can look at the many inconsistencies between what we might expect of a universe created by a loving god, and the universe we live in. so since evidence could lead you either way, it is just a matter of what one wants to believe.
making your decision whether to believe or not is as simple as weighing the reasons why you want to believe against the reasons why you don't. for example
i want to believe in god because:
the idea that my existence will be eternal helps me avoid fears that everything i do is futile in a life that is short and certain to end
it would be reassuring to feel that all of the terrible things in this world happen for a reason, even if i can't understand what that reason is
the feeling that i am loved unconditionally is comforting when relationships with other imperfect humans leads to conflict
i don't want to believe in god because:
eternal existence devalues everything you do in this life
an omnipotent god would be responsible for creating all the evil in the world, which would leave some serious doubt regarding his good intentions and trustworthiness
invisible friends are stupid
god would be omniscient, and would therefore always be watching me. even when i masturbate.

in this way, i come to the conclusion that i would rather not believe in god. and since god is not something that can be proven to exist or not exist, that's really all that matters.

At 6/5/11 11:10 PM, juytedawirldz wrote: in this way, i come to the conclusion that i would rather not believe in god. and since god is not something that can be proven to exist or not exist, that's really all that matters.

So as long as you can excuse your belief or opinion via an appeal to the supernatural, all that matters is that you want to believe or think it? You do realize this is in no way an issue unique to the matter of a god, and that anything can be abstracted into allegedly supernatural terms - that essentially anything can become as a god, 'not something that can be proven or disproven'?

The very argument you make renders the distinction between refutable and irrefutable null and void. It's self defeating.

At 6/5/11 11:38 PM, Bacchanalian wrote:

At 6/5/11 11:10 PM, juytedawirldz wrote: in this way, i come to the conclusion that i would rather not believe in god. and since god is not something that can be proven to exist or not exist, that's really all that matters.

So as long as you can excuse your belief or opinion via an appeal to the supernatural, all that matters is that you want to believe or think it? You do realize this is in no way an issue unique to the matter of a god, and that anything can be abstracted into allegedly supernatural terms - that essentially anything can become as a god, 'not something that can be proven or disproven'?

The very argument you make renders the distinction between refutable and irrefutable null and void. It's self defeating.

Except not everything can be related to the supernatural. For instance, a debate about what economic policy to pursue is not a supernatural or metaphysical debate -- it's is concerned with graphs, data, logic, numbers, history, philosophy etc. The debate on God on the other hand is entirely supernatural, as it's concerning something that is allegedly beyond us, beyond humans, unlike economics, which is a purely human invention. Thus you can't prove disprove God with numbers or graphs; either the logic of a divine being makes sense to you - intuitively resonates with you on a deep personal level - or it does not, However, you can never prove or disprove his existence.

At 6/6/11 12:06 AM, Dubbi wrote: Except not everything can be related to the supernatural. For instance, a debate about what economic policy to pursue is not a supernatural or metaphysical debate -- it's is concerned with graphs, data, logic, numbers, history, philosophy etc. The debate on God on the other hand is entirely supernatural, as it's concerning something that is allegedly beyond us, beyond humans, unlike economics, which is a purely human invention. Thus you can't prove disprove God with numbers or graphs; either the logic of a divine being makes sense to you - intuitively resonates with you on a deep personal level - or it does not, However, you can never prove or disprove his existence.

I know of no belief in the supernatural that is primarily and solely implicative of the supernatural. By the same token that any supernatural belief implies an empirically knowable thing, any empirically knowable thing can be abstracted as a supernatural phenomenon.

Economics as a science, would no longer be economics should it involve the supernatural. This is a semantic issue.

But here's the thing. However you or anyone else wants to restrict the scope of economic debate doesn't matter. According to the construct given by juytedawirldz, as long as you introduce something supernatural to the discussion, all bets are off - all that matters is what one wants to believe. It defeats the notion that any field of knowledge may be off limits to supernatural speculation.

It's self defeating because it relies on a distinction that it itself nullifies.

As to whether there is a God or not my answer would be to look around, look at the complexity of the universe and then decide for yourself if it is in any way possible that this all happened by chance. As to the things that are going on around us if you were raised a Christian then you should know that the main difference between man and animals is that God endowed man with free will. That being said most people tend to make bad choices. If God were to interfere and "fix" everything where is the concept of free will? God created man to fellowship with him by their own choice, if we choose not to we reap the results of that choice. If there is a God, and I believe there is, then there is also a devil whose primary purpose is to deceive us into believing there is no God. Here's a thought for you: If you are living like there is no God you had better be right. If I am wrong I don't stand to lose much, but if you don't believe that God exists and you are wrong?????

At 6/6/11 04:26 PM, TheOneNed wrote: If you are living like there is no God you had better be right. If I am wrong I don't stand to lose much, but if you don't believe that God exists and you are wrong?????

Please, have some respect for the people you witness to. If you think this is a good argument, educate yourself. If you know it isn't, but are using it anyway, quit it.

I don't believe God exists. The fact that it's called faith is very amusing to me. Faith is simply belief without evidence. There is no evidence to god existing so why should you believe in it?

At 6/6/11 08:12 PM, LlamaReaper wrote: I don't believe God exists. The fact that it's called faith is very amusing to me. Faith is simply belief without evidence. There is no evidence to god existing so why should you believe in it?

Some people are drawn to the idea that there is something beyond them, that there lives aren't just completely meaningless...

For some years when I was very little I lived only with my grandparents and they raised me as a catholic, I went to church and pray, but like when I was 4 years old I became more skeptical because of the different versions of God's personality and capabillities and Iearnd about the other deities and all that turned me into an Atheist. Now I'm a little bit intolerant with religious people (And I'm not proud of it). I hate goin' to church (I go only on funerals... and like every year I need to go to one D:). I think the world would be better without religions, I'm not saying that world would be better if everyone were Atheist because that would make the same problems that with religions but with other stuff. I'm saying that it would be better if everyone had their own faith.

At 6/6/11 11:10 PM, Dubbi wrote: Some people are drawn to the idea that there is something beyond them, that there lives aren't just completely meaningless...

You don't have to believe in god to have meaning in your life...

At 6/7/11 01:39 PM, Atheist-Messiah wrote:

At 6/6/11 11:10 PM, Dubbi wrote: Some people are drawn to the idea that there is something beyond them, that there lives aren't just completely meaningless...

You don't have to believe in god to have meaning in your life...

Correct, there are still tons of superstitions and illusions you can convene at your own leisure.

Oh no see what happened, is that there is no god, back in bibilical times, everybody heard voices, who they called god.

Since you were raised Christian, I'll speak as one.

In the Bible, it reminds us, New Testament, that God gives us free will. We can use that free will however we please. He does NOT give us rules to follow. Christians only have to believe that Jesus died on the cross to save us. In the Old Testament, God was very angry with his creation. What everyone else is doing and saying has nothing to do with you and your decisions. He only prefers that we don't kill and steal and lie and cheat.

You have to remember that the Ten Commandments and a number of other harsh rules were made before the New Testament and were meant for people in the Old Testament. Now that we're in the New Testament, we have free will. We can choose our religion as we please and make our own mistakes.

Does this help?

Well they say the Lord works in mysterious ways...
still would such an almightly power let the world go to hell?
I mean look at the state world today and decide for your self...

the answer to your question my friend is maybe.

maybe there is a god and maybe there isnt. Is there a christian god? that i highly doubt... the christian god is portrayed as being very human, with feelings and desires, this is far from a perfect and godly image isnt it? but a force or creature that allowed our world to evolve in the beginning, possibly some kind of unintelligent catalytical being that has spurred on evolution.

but the truth is this, even is there is a god, it seems that it doesnt want us to fully recognize its existance, and so there is no possible way of being able to tell if it is real or not, hell even just the possibility of there being a god renders all human endevors moot, all our studies and research and technological advances are pointless in a "god guides the world" senario.

ill tell you this though pal, regardless of there being a god or not you shouldnt be worrying about it, its beyond human comprehention either way, the absence of god doesnt mean the absence of good... so if you are truely worried about it, just do your best to be a good person anyway. any god WORTH worshipping will be intelligent enough to realise that despite you not believing in him, you still did your best in life.

i just think its pretty ignorant... naive... to think that our universe is simple enough for there to be such a black and white element to it, God. nothing i know of our natural world tells me that anything is that simple.

but hey like i said... no way of knowing untill he pokes his head down from the clouds and says "hello im real".

I would have a tough time attempting to provide proof of a "God". That is such a religiously loaded term that it is meaningless to me personally. Given what we know now, there is no proof and anyone who tries to tell you otherwise will only be reiterating their own personal "beliefs" that they have mistakenly come to believe are "truth and reality" - mainly because their religion or their holy book tells them so. I find most fundamentalists of any religion to be horribly brainwashed and out of fear, are unable to really explore and question their beliefs.