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http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_on_c rossbows
Does anyone else think it's kinda ridiculous that you can shoot any legal game with a high powered rifle yet you can barely even hunt small game with a crossbow. Is there any particular reason why the laws on them are so strict?

You can track a bullet to a firearm, but you can't track an arrow to a bow?

Hey, I tried.

At 5/7/11 02:10 AM, Dawnslayer wrote: You can track a bullet to a firearm, but you can't track an arrow to a bow?

Hey, I tried.

It's beyond easy to kill someone with a crossbow, they shoot these huge ass bolts and are quiet as ever. HOWEVER, there are so few crossbow owners and as far as I know you have to register everything like a firearm, Things get narrowed down pretty quickly.
But we're talking about hunting here, some states require you to have a disability in order to hunt with one, that's beyond useless.

And I have my personal beliefs, I believe it's kinda cheap to use a gun to hunt an animal, I think if you go hunting and are an average capable human being you should atleast use something respectable that requires skill and patience to use.

At 5/7/11 02:34 AM, Magic-Mushroom wrote:
And I have my personal beliefs, I believe it's kinda cheap to use a gun to hunt an animal.

You're right. We should chase them towards canyons and have our brethren dump boulders on them from above.

At 5/7/11 02:00 AM, Magic-Mushroom wrote: Does anyone else think it's kinda ridiculous that you can shoot any legal game with a high powered rifle yet you can barely even hunt small game with a crossbow.

The way you said that makes it sound like hitting small game with a crossbow is harder than taking legal game with your rifle.

There isn't much difference in hunting with specialized arms. I'd say scope technology influences the actual chances of game being harvested more so than the delivery system. Crossbows can be equipped with some stellar lenses... if you felt the need for it.

Is there any particular reason why the laws on them are so strict?

The church started the war on crossbows way, way back, declaring them tools of the devil for their extreme dependability and range. Or something along those lines.

maybe you should stick to using a rifle... In the event of an accident, its harder to treat an arrow wound than it is to treat a bullet. + cross bow bolts might have some alterations that make them more deadly than bullets (ex: a barb, poison, or fragmenting head)

Hmm... it's a strange issue. Part of it may be due to the fact that the constitution does not protect anyone's right to use a crossbow (as it does with the use of firearms), part of it may be due to the state trying to protect people from injuring themselves from hunting bigger game with possibly inadequate tools (imagine shooting a bear with a crossbow... yeah, goodnight hunter, unless you're really, REALLY good with that fucking crossbow). There's no way to really know, though, since there's so much variance from state to state on the crossbow laws.

At 5/7/11 09:50 AM, LazyDrunk wrote:

At 5/7/11 02:00 AM, Magic-Mushroom wrote: Does anyone else think it's kinda ridiculous that you can shoot any legal game with a high powered rifle yet you can barely even hunt small game with a crossbow.

The way you said that makes it sound like hitting small game with a crossbow is harder than taking legal game with your rifle.

Not quite what I ment, I mean that with the laws you are only allowed to hunt smaller game in some states.

At 5/7/11 01:14 PM, Iron-Hampster wrote: maybe you should stick to using a rifle... In the event of an accident, its harder to treat an arrow wound than it is to treat a bullet. + cross bow bolts might have some alterations that make them more deadly than bullets (ex: a barb, poison, or fragmenting head

If you are that careless to the point where you could shoot yourself you don't even deserve to use a firearm, or your foot for that matter.

At 5/7/11 01:45 PM, Gario wrote: Hmm... it's a strange issue. Part of it may be due to the fact that the constitution does not protect anyone's right to use a crossbow (as it does with the use of firearms), part of it may be due to the state trying to protect people from injuring themselves from hunting bigger game with possibly inadequate tools (imagine shooting a bear with a crossbow... yeah, goodnight hunter, unless you're really, REALLY good with that fucking crossbow). There's no way to really know, though, since there's so much variance from state to state on the crossbow laws.

You don't use a bow to kill a bear, you don't use a BB gun to kill a pissed off badger, common sense. They are best used for hunting deer and medium to small game,

There's ignorance everywhere in this thread.

There is no crossbow registry, just like there is no rifle registry. You can buy a crossbow and bring it home same day with no paperwork at all in every state as far as I am aware, just like a bow. In most states, the only way they will let you hunt with a crossbow during bow season is if you are physically disabled. I'm as lost as you are on what the reason is, but I feel the same way about the 3 round limits that most states have for rifles. I might figure that the major reason is sportsmanship, though. Hunting with a bow is challenging and bow hunters would have a hard time competing with crossbow hunters. For that reason, hunters are still allowed to hunt with crossbows during rifle season in most states. I don't know what state you are in, but odds are you can do it if you just figure out when in the season you are allowed to do it. The problem is you'll probably be competing against guys with rifles that can shoot many times farther than you could.

Also, bows and crossbows are as viable for any game as any firearm out there. You just have to use the right weapon and the right heads. They have smaller effective ranges, but they are exactly as deadly and dangerous as a firearm could be, so don't underestimate them.

I forgot to ask something; would your interest in crossbows happen to come from Black Ops?

What about the issue of hunting with a crossbow being a far less humane hunting tool? If it takes more skill to use one effectively, chances are it means it takes longer for the animals to die due to either injury by misfire or the bluntness of the tool.

At 5/8/11 06:27 AM, Yorik wrote: I forgot to ask something; would your interest in crossbows happen to come from Black Ops?

I don't play call of duty, and even if I did I'm not pissing away $60 for a half assed game.

At 5/8/11 04:06 AM, Magic-Mushroom wrote:
You don't use a bow to kill a bear, you don't use a BB gun to kill a pissed off badger, common sense. They are best used for hunting deer and medium to small game,

I know that. Don't assume everyone does. There's more than enough proof on the internet alone to show that people can be (and probably are) that stupid. Just saying that some laws might be to prevent some natural selection occurring.

At 5/8/11 01:24 PM, Gario wrote:

At 5/8/11 04:06 AM, Magic-Mushroom wrote:
You don't use a bow to kill a bear, you don't use a BB gun to kill a pissed off badger, common sense. They are best used for hunting deer and medium to small game,

I know that. Don't assume everyone does. There's more than enough proof on the internet alone to show that people can be (and probably are) that stupid. Just saying that some laws might be to prevent some natural selection occurring.

I don't see any problem with that, it's their own stupid fault. And if they are really that stupid they probably deserve to get mauled to death by an angry bear.

Just saying.

its an obsolete weapon anyways. In fact, I'm curious about the laws around hunting with a spear now.

At 5/8/11 03:25 PM, Iron-Hampster wrote: its an obsolete weapon anyways. In fact, I'm curious about the laws around hunting with a spear now.

oh wait a minute...

sorry double post

At 5/8/11 01:31 PM, Magic-Mushroom wrote:

At 5/8/11 01:24 PM, Gario wrote:

At 5/8/11 04:06 AM, Magic-Mushroom wrote:
You don't use a bow to kill a bear, you don't use a BB gun to kill a pissed off badger, common sense. They are best used for hunting deer and medium to small game,

I know that. Don't assume everyone does. There's more than enough proof on the internet alone to show that people can be (and probably are) that stupid. Just saying that some laws might be to prevent some natural selection occurring.

I don't see any problem with that, it's their own stupid fault. And if they are really that stupid they probably deserve to get mauled to death by an angry bear.

Just saying.

I regret to inform both of you that people can and DO hunt VERY large game effectively with bows and crossbows, and if you need evidence all you need to do is a 3 second google search. I've even seen hunters take alligators and crocodiles with bows. Just because you would be too afraid to do something doesn't mean nobody else participates in it.

At 5/8/11 07:03 AM, Chris-V2 wrote: What about the issue of hunting with a crossbow being a far less humane hunting tool? If it takes more skill to use one effectively, chances are it means it takes longer for the animals to die due to either injury by misfire or the bluntness of the tool.

The only way for any weapon to kill quickly and painlessly is with a vital shot. A shot with a gun to a non-vital area of the body isn't any more lethal or painless than an arrow to the same area. Most deer that run after being shot die from bleeding out regardless of what they were hit with and modern bows are powerful enough to completely penetrate the body just like a bullet would. The only factor is that arrows move much slower than bullets and at farther ranges a deer's hearing and reactions are good enough that they could begin running and a shot that would have struck a vital area could instead go into the gut or something, but in the case of a gut shot it's not any worse than a gut shot from a bullet.

Actually, a lot of people believe exactly the opposite - that bow/crossbow hunting is a lot more humane because it's a lot harder than hunting with a gun. You have to get a LOT closer so the prey is more likely to smell or hear you and completely avoid you, the prey can hear you drawing and firing the weapon in time to do something about it, etc...

At 5/8/11 04:20 PM, Yorik wrote:
I regret to inform both of you that people can and DO hunt VERY large game effectively with bows and crossbows, and if you need evidence all you need to do is a 3 second google search. I've even seen hunters take alligators and crocodiles with bows. Just because you would be too afraid to do something doesn't mean nobody else participates in it.

Here's my original point.

[it's the] state trying to protect people from injuring themselves from hunting bigger game with possibly inadequate tools (imagine shooting a bear with a crossbow... yeah, goodnight hunter, unless you're really, REALLY good with that fucking crossbow).

Some people can do it. Believe me, though, there are some people that can't, but they think they can when they see it on the internet. That's not the sort of mistake that you can learn from, since you'll probably be dead when you make it once. That would most likely be who the laws are directed at.

At 5/8/11 06:05 PM, Gario wrote:

At 5/8/11 04:20 PM, Yorik wrote:
I regret to inform both of you that people can and DO hunt VERY large game effectively with bows and crossbows, and if you need evidence all you need to do is a 3 second google search. I've even seen hunters take alligators and crocodiles with bows. Just because you would be too afraid to do something doesn't mean nobody else participates in it.

Here's my original point.

[it's the] state trying to protect people from injuring themselves from hunting bigger game with possibly inadequate tools (imagine shooting a bear with a crossbow... yeah, goodnight hunter, unless you're really, REALLY good with that fucking crossbow).

Some people can do it. Believe me, though, there are some people that can't, but they think they can when they see it on the internet. That's not the sort of mistake that you can learn from, since you'll probably be dead when you make it once. That would most likely be who the laws are directed at.

I really don't think so. Laws usually aren't made to protect people from thinking they are better than they are. There are plenty of really dangerous sports that there are no laws restricting their practice. I really don't even think there's much call for large game hunting in the US as most hunters are content to hunt mid sized game and don't care much for the travel involved. When you go big game hunting you usually aren't alone, you go on a hunting trip that is coordinated by a third party that plans the trip and makes sure you have transportation and stuff, and there are usually guides available, so it's not like you are totally alone. Also, big game hunters usually carry powerful sidearms to make sure they can defend themselves if their target charges or even if they get into some trouble with animals they didn't intend to hunt, so a guy hunting bears with a crossbow would still likely have a .44 magnum or better for protection. On top of that, most of the time you'll probably be in a tree stand anyway. If you are especially rich you can hunt large game from a helicopter.

Big game hunting is actually a very cost prohibitive sport. Not just any redneck can do it even if they have all of the equipment they need. Nobody that isn't prepared could really attempt it in the first place and if you die doing it you went at your own risk. It's just like climbing everest; it's extremely easy to die trying it but if you have the money nobody is going to stop you, and odds are if you DO have the money and you are actually WILLING to try it you probably exactly unprepared. At that point it's nobody else's responsibility to protect you from it. You're exactly as likely to die big game hunting with a crossbow as you are with any other weapon.

To be honest it probably has more to do with ignorance, just as is the case with most laws restricting weapons and their use.

At 5/8/11 06:36 PM, Yorik wrote:

To be honest it probably has more to do with ignorance, just as is the case with most laws restricting weapons and their use.

Exactly, the government thinks we are all fucking idiots who can't even tie our own damn shoes without the help of mommy and daddy government.

At 5/8/11 06:36 PM, Yorik wrote:

At 5/8/11 06:05 PM, Gario wrote: That's not the sort of mistake that you can learn from, since you'll probably be dead when you make it once. That would most likely be who the laws are directed at.

I really don't think so. Laws usually aren't made to protect people from thinking they are better than they are. There are plenty of really dangerous sports that there are no laws restricting their practice.

I really don't even think there's much call for large game hunting in the US as most hunters are content to hunt mid sized game and don't care much for the travel involved.

Deer are considered large game, and really, anything over 50 lbs can take a heavy toll on your immediate health if you aren't careful/lethal enough. Lots of times, the game you're hunting isn't the most dangerous thing in the woods, it's the top predators, the landscape, other people and most often yourself. That hunting is prohibitively expensive (money, time, location) where you are is sorta sad, but I know what you mean. Out of state hunters are routinely charged exponentially more than in-state residents who choose to hunt "in their backyard" so to speak. Getting a permit to take large game out of state often means waiting years for the tag, and in the cases of a few of the largest game, you only get one tag before the rets of the flock gets their shot at a hunting trip.

When you go big game hunting you usually aren't alone, you go on a hunting trip that is coordinated by a third party that plans the trip and makes sure you have transportation and stuff, and there are usually guides available, so it's not like you are totally alone.

From my experience, if you aren't going to a totally foreign location, you are most often alone, seldom with a single buddy or guide for aid. The most common big game hunted in America is the whitetail, and many people choose to hunt them close to home, for the obvious benefit of reducing vehicle collisions and having a food source untainted by the factory meat-mills. Hauling meat/trophies long distances can also add to the prohibitive costs you mentioned earlier.

Also, big game hunters usually carry powerful sidearms to make sure they can defend themselves if their target charges or even if they get into some trouble with animals they didn't intend to hunt, so a guy hunting bears with a crossbow would still likely have a .44 magnum or better for protection.

This is true. A gentleman on our local police force went Kodibear hunting in Alaska with his compound, and used his personally-bought service arm .45 as backup. Part of the thrill of hunting is knowing that out in the woods, the animals still have a good chance against you, even if you're armed to the teeth. One mistep or misprep and you could find yourself hurt, thirsty, mauled or lost.

Big game hunting is actually a very cost prohibitive sport. Not just any redneck can do it even if they have all of the equipment they need.

All they need is a gun. They call it poaching, and it's a common enough practice where rednecks habitate.

You're exactly as likely to die big game hunting with a crossbow as you are with any other weapon.

Meh.

To be honest it probably has more to do with ignorance, just as is the case with most laws restricting weapons and their use.

Kinda. Crossbows are for the disabled though. Healthy? Pull a compound if you want to use an arrow. Crossbows have more in common with rifles in that you can "set and forget" a locked and loaded bolt in a crossbow while traditional bows require potential energy to be stored in your arm and not the mechanisms of the weapon you're holding.

That's the difference I see in the laws we have on the books.

At 5/9/11 09:26 AM, LazyDrunk wrote:

I wasn't talking about white-tail hunting at all. When I said big game hunting I meant BIG game hunting, like caribou, bears, whatever else, in places where just about any animal could kill you. The question was whether or not crossbows can take bears and they certainly can. In the majority of states there is no restriction on crossbow hunting other than during archery season. It has little to do with safety.

At 5/9/11 11:37 AM, Yorik wrote:

At 5/9/11 09:26 AM, LazyDrunk wrote:

I wasn't talking about white-tail hunting at all. When I said big game hunting I meant BIG game hunting, like caribou, bears, whatever else, in places where just about any animal could kill you.

Okay. I assumed you meant what most hunters use crossbows for, when they are used. As far as caribou and elk are concerned, a crossbow just isn't ideal for the distances involved in hunting those animals.

Unless you're "hunting" at a game farm or something.

The question was whether or not crossbows can take bears and they certainly can. In the majority of states there is no restriction on crossbow hunting other than during archery season. It has little to do with safety.

For all intents and purposes, yeah.

Most places you can't use crossbows during bow season because crossbows and compound bows are very different. They both shoot the same projectile more or less and use similar mechanics, but a cross bow is point and shoot and requires far less skill then a compound bow. Hunting with a compound bow is more challenging, hence its own season. Crossbows from the standpoint of how you operate them resemble a firearm, point and pull the trigger.

At 5/9/11 12:00 PM, LazyDrunk wrote:

At 5/9/11 11:37 AM, Yorik wrote:

At 5/9/11 09:26 AM, LazyDrunk wrote:

I wasn't talking about white-tail hunting at all. When I said big game hunting I meant BIG game hunting, like caribou, bears, whatever else, in places where just about any animal could kill you.

Okay. I assumed you meant what most hunters use crossbows for, when they are used. As far as caribou and elk are concerned, a crossbow just isn't ideal for the distances involved in hunting those animals.

Yeah, absolutely not, but I suppose that's the idea. Nothing other than a rifle or shotgun is really "ideal" for any kind of hunting, but there are tons of people out there every season pushing the limits of what they can do and going outside the comfort ranges of most people. Handgun hunting, including LARGE game handgun hunting is growing in popularity. Long range for a handgun is generally considered to be around 25-30 yards(about the effective distance for a bow) but these guys are training to shoot their handguns at rifle distances. In that sport the power of the weapon isn't the problem as is the case with bows and crossbows, these handgun cartridges they use are actually comparable to rifle cartridges, but here you are dealing with a much smaller weapon that you have much less control over that is very easy to completely botch a shot with any little mistake. That's totally unrestricted, too.

So yeah... Probably not a safety issue. Like I said before, the main reason you can't crossbow hunt in archery season is surely because a crossbow provides too much of an advantage over a bow. Likewise, the reason crossbows are unrestricted in the general rifle season is because they provide no advantage. If they were really concerned with people's safety they would make it illegal to hunt large game with a .22lr rifle or handgun. This is also not the case.

Using crossbows in bow hunting season would completely destroy the purpose of bow hunting season, which is to allow people to bow hunt without having to compete with people who have weapons that are easier to kill game with.

This works now because bow hunting is much less popular than rifle hunting. If you could use crossbows, rifle hunters would go buy crossbows just to get the extended hunting season, which would basically make bow hunting impossible.

they would make it illegal to hunt large game with a .22lr rifle or handgun. This is also not the case.

Um, it IS illegal to hunt large game with something smaller than .221, at the least, and handguns must have a cartridge length of a .357mag or larger.

There are regulations within the rifle/bow seasons, like minimum draw # and shot size/type. Lead vs steel, plugs vs full mag, day vs night, baiting/waiting.

It's not as unrestricted or uncontrolled as you may think.