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O SNAPZ! CONSPIRASIEZ!

At 5/10/11 02:18 AM, Ninjafap wrote: O SNAPZ! CONSPIRASIEZ!

Hahaha. Awesome.

I'd rather believe he's dead, because I don't like Islam.

my favorite part about this is this smug little bit in your sig linking to this thread

The practical, non-conspiracy version of why they lied about Osama bin Laden

they! they! good job using glenn beck tactics for your manchild argument

Didn't they find a huge pile of discs and documents in his apartment? Wouldn't the government suspect he could've distorted evidence and given false evidence so they wouldn't use these documents and discs to harm al-qaida?

At 5/10/11 02:48 AM, Sanch wrote:

they! they! good job using glenn beck tactics for your manchild argument

"They" is a functional literary term. It's applied to connote an implied group. It's been used as such long before Glen Beck was even born. I'm more specific all over the place but I'll clarify once again what "they" applies to: Those who would be involved with his capture.

Glenn Beck is an insufferable idiot, and he would also use insults to accentuate his disagreeing with my idea.

Where do you get off admitting that you don't have any hard proof of your theory and then rallying us to action? You tell us that we can't believe the government because they have no proof, but we can believe you even though you don't have any proof.

Hmm very good points.

Don't know much else to say.

At 5/10/11 03:37 AM, ratchetrockon wrote: Hmm very good points.

Don't know much else to say.

People on forums are so reliable.Wake up sheeple! Down with the authority telling us information!

At 5/10/11 03:36 AM, MJOLNIRchief90 wrote: Where do you get off admitting that you don't have any hard proof of your theory and then rallying us to action? You tell us that we can't believe the government because they have no proof, but we can believe you even though you don't have any proof.

I understand your issue here, but understand that from my point of view, the action is what's necessary to get the proof in the first place. If enough people were to display distrust and suspicions over the situation then odds are good an investigation would likely be launched, most likely by the U.N. (who else?).

Of course, I'm not sure that it matters. Not nearly enough people care, and even the majority of those who do don't care enough to be outspoken about it. Even if I'm right, the time since I originally posted this article has put me under the strong impression that it doesn't matter, because those who are responsible got away with it. The people of the nation aren't going to challenge it. They'll get the information they need and kill him. They might take some pictures to "leak" them later, or to release them whenever a new administration is in place- though that's certainly merely conceivable action and not a certainty. Then they'll probably destroy the body and that will be the end of it, with no one ever the wiser. People (not me, unless people continue to respond to me directly) will still argue over it for years to come, but it wil purely be useless rhetoric at that point. Hell, it practically is at this point, already.

At 5/10/11 04:47 AM, Tokecat wrote:

Bin Laden's hiding out from the U.S.A was his raison d'etre; his eluding of justice spawned followers who were in awe of his ability to escape his hunters.

Even if Bin Laden isn't dead, the U.S.A has proved it has his strongholds of Al-Quaeda support in it's crosshairs.

Bin Laden has done all the harm he is ever gonna do, either way.

No argument there.

At 5/10/11 02:08 AM, PhoenixGodwin wrote:

At 5/9/11 11:42 PM, Dubbi wrote:

How exactly is the government pretending the most wanted man in the world was killed when he was actually captured not a conspiracy?

Jesus, you really just don't quit, do you? So now your harassment has gone from one thread, to my profile page, to a personal message, to the thread of my actual article which you still haven't even bothered to read.

I've explained this multiple times already, on the other thread and even once to you, I believe. However I know how much you hate to read so I'll copy and paste the relevant excerpt to answer your question- because at this point I feel like showing you how redundant you've been is the only way to get your ignorant hassling to cease.

"The definition of "Conspiracy" is "A secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful". What I am suggesting arguably does not necessarily fit into that category. It's most likely technically a military action (and military operates on a different set of laws than civilians or politicians), and it's being done to protect us from harm. "

I'm pretty sure the government lying about a raid and covering it up is unlawful. Just as unlawful as the moon landing conspiracy at least. I think it's pretty clear that this is a conspiracy, and I wish you'd at least admit it.

Also, you never answered - I ask for I think the 4th time - if the release of photos would change your mind.

I answer that in the article. I answered that in the second article I linked in this one from when I still believed he was dead. I answered it numerous times in multiple threads. I'm not doing it again because if you actually were reading anything I said before just judging not only my work, but me as a person as well- you would already realize that almost (if not) every single thing you have said to me has been redundancy and ignorance nearly epitomized.

So that's a "no" then?

your theory isn't logical.

You are an idiot. Do some reading and use your head, or stop bothering me you moron.

Insulting me doesn't make you correct. I still think you're wrong. You have said absolutely nothing to prove that the government is lying. All you have provided is is a couple objections to the way the information was released, which the government has reasons for; if you don't agree with these explanations, fine, but don't think that this proves that Bin Laden is actually alive.

Is it so hard hard to believe that maybe we did bury his body in the sea in accordance with Islamic tradition and so that his burial ground wouldn't be a shrine? There's DNA evidence and photographic evidence, what more do you need? The fact that the government isn't releasing the evidence doesn't mean that they are lying.

We never were determined to capture Bin Laden. From the start of the manhunt it was about killing him -- we attempted to kill him at Tora Bora; we attempted to kill him in 2007. Why would be so so determined to capture him now?

Logically your argument just doesn't make sense. If we were so desperate about intelligence, we would capture and kill all terrorist leaders -- except the majority of them we kill in predator strikes and in raids.

If we indeed did capture him, why do you assume we'd have to lie about it? We've captured other terrorist leaders before and interrogated them without faking their death. You claim it's so we can torture him, which is totally inconsistent with Obama stand on torture. If we did capture him, where did we take him? You'd probably say to some base where we later killed him. However if our plan was intelligence, it takes years to reveal information, like with Khalid sheikh mohammed. And I highly doubt we could keep Bin Laden a secret for years -- there'd be a huge incentive to reveal the coverup, the person who did would be forever membered, hailed a hero. Also, Obama's highly against torture, even for Bin Laden, and I'd bet anything that he wouldn't agree to this plan.

I understand that there is no conclusive proof of his death. But there isn't anymore proof that he is alive. You claim no body, no photos, but this doesn't proof he's actually alive, only that the government won't release them, which they have their reasons for -- even if you don't agree with them. Thus, if the choice is between believing the government or not, I'd choose to believe the government. Occam's razor states that the theory with the least new assumptions is most likely right, and yours is not. You make plenty of assumptions -- that hundreds or even thousands of people are lying to us. While the view that the government is telling the truth just dictates that Obama is being honest, which makes much more sense.

Do you really think your conspiracy is more logical?

At 5/6/11 10:06 PM, Suprememessage wrote: We disprespected him the same way he disrespected us. It is sort of karma, if you think about it.

It wasn't out of disrespect. It was out of necessity.

It was thrown in the sea for two solid reasons:

1. Muslim traditions require his body be buried within one day.

2. No country would allow him to be buried there. They did not want a shrine for his followers to worship.

The fact doesn't change Phoenix, that you have offered not one piece of solid evidence to back up your theory. Not only that but you are entrenching yourself in a position where no matter what proof of the official story is offered up to you, you will be able to dismiss all the evidence and feel like a hero to yourself for doing so.

You are not part of a vanguard of truth seekers that will uncover this great conspiracy.
You are a hypocritical loon who will be forgotten about. No body will even care enough about your theory to remember how wrong you were.

My, my, Dubbi. Aren't we persistent?

At 5/9/11 11:42 PM, Dubbi wrote:

I'm pretty sure the government lying about a raid and covering it up is unlawful. Just as unlawful as the moon landing conspiracy at least.

As I've already mentioned before, Military law varies in many (sometimes extreme) ways from laws set for civilians/politicians. If bin Laden was captured it would have been a military action. It would be protocol to commit the action that could potentially save the most lives- and capturing Osama for information and not telling people would be way more likely to do so then killing him outright. Keeping the fact that he is still alive would keep Al-Qaeda from saying something along the lines of "Release our leader to us now, or we will start randomly blowing up [middle-eastern] schools, hospitals, and burning down farms until you do".

Again, this isn't about the government being "out to get us", it's about the potential to protect us from harm. I still am of the firm belief that not capturing him would be poor foresight and an irresponsible decision. Even if just for the possibility that information extracted from him could save lives.

And come on, we've obviously been to the moon, and there's plenty of evidence available to indicate this.

Is it so hard hard to believe that maybe we did bury his body in the sea in accordance with Islamic tradition and so that his burial ground wouldn't be a shrine? There's DNA evidence and photographic evidence, what more do you need? The fact that the government isn't releasing the evidence doesn't mean that they are lying.

Watch what you say. There is no functional photographic evidence. The DNA evidence is only evidence that they took a DNA test of Osama bin Laden, not that they killed him in the raid in Pakistan. Don't be redundant.

We never were determined to capture Bin Laden. From the start of the manhunt it was about killing him -- we attempted to kill him at Tora Bora; we attempted to kill him in 2007. Why would be so so determined to capture him now?

Well for one, Osama bin Laden was officially wanted "Dead or Alive". Also if they wanted to they could have just bombed the hell out of that cave and potentially killed him, but they didn't. Also, if you actually read up on it, we weren't positive he was even there in the first place, with evidence available that he may have also been in Pakistan.

Logically your argument just doesn't make sense. If we were so desperate about intelligence, we would capture and kill all terrorist leaders -- except the majority of them we kill in predator strikes and in raids.

I mean, you do know about Guantanamo Bay and what that was, right? Besides, other terrorist leaders aren't Osama bin Laden, who was the leader of the entirety of Al-Qaeda, a terrorist organization that spans over numerous countries that he still had control over.

I highly doubt we could keep Bin Laden a secret for years -- there'd be a huge incentive to reveal the coverup, the person who did would be forever membered, hailed a hero.

Well that's just silly. If he's alive nobody is ever going to hear from him again anyway. Haven't you ever heard of Bradley Manning? If someone that was part of the military or government were to reveal the sensitive, classified "conspiracy"- they would be accused of treason. They could potentially be responsible for countless deaths, and only a very few people would hold him in high regard for something like that. If you look up Bradley Manning, you'll see that most people don't support him at all and feel his imprisonment is absolutely justified. Also odds are good that if someone were in a high enough position to be aware of this on a first-hand basis, they are not the kind of person who would expose it anyway because they would understand the importance of keeping it secret.

I understand that there is no conclusive proof of his death. But there isn't anymore proof that he is alive.

I'm aware of this. That's why you're free to believe what you will, and I am only offering a logical alternative that you can take or leave.

You make plenty of assumptions -- that hundreds or even thousands of people are lying to us.

repeat, repeat, repeat

No. I'd estimate that only 15-40 people would know he was alive: The one's who captured him, the ones who made the decision to capture him, and the ones who would have him in custody right now. They told the media, other politicians, and the world that they shot and killed bin Laden, because it was a responsible imperative to do so.

While the view that the government is telling the truth just dictates that Obama is being honest, which makes much more sense.

That just means that you have a strong faith in Barrack Obama. It has nothing to do with logic. That's like saying "God exists because my priest told me so, and he's a really good guy".

Do you really think your conclusion is more logical?

Well yes, obviously that's what I think. I'm not the only one either. You don't have to think I'm right, but just because you don't understand or agree with the logic doesn't mean that other people who do are stupid, it just means that they analyze information in a different way than you. You would do well in life to learn from that.

If you want to keep ping-ponging this back and forth, fine. But unless you find some information that people here- who have put considerably more thought and reading into this- haven't come up with yet, we're not going to get anywhere.

Is this a Cracked.com article? It really sounds like a Cracked.com article. Also, well thought out post, broski. I don't particularly believe that's the case, but it does seem like a reasonable assumption. I suppose the main problem is that if this ever got out, it would be the next Watergate scandal, which makes it a little to risky for it to seem a feasible option for Obama.

At 5/10/11 05:37 PM, SG3 wrote:

Is this a Cracked.com article? It really sounds like a Cracked.com article. Also, well thought out post, broski.

Thanks man, I really appreciate it- and I'm flattered by the comparison.

So a new development has come up, in which Osama bin Laden's family is calling shenanigans as well. Omar bin Laden, the son of Osama bin Laden- has released a statement on behalf of him and his family expressing their disdain for the lack of information and evidence regarding Osama's death.

The entirety of the statement can be read here.

"I Omar Ossama Bin Ladin and my brothers the lawful children and heirs of the Ossama Binladin (OBL) have noted wide coverage of the news of the death of our father, but we are not convinced on the available evidence in the absence of dead body, photographs, and video evidence that our natural father is dead. Therefore, with this press statement, we seek such conclusive evidence to believe the stories published in relation to 2 May 2011 operation Geronimo as declared by the President of United States Barrack Hussein Obama in his speech that he authorized the said operation and killing of OBL and later confirmed his death.....

......Most importantly, when it is a common knowledge that OBL's family is residing at one place outside KSA, why they were not contacted to receive his dead body. His sudden and un witnessed burial at sea has deprived the family of performing religious rights of a Muslim man"

I think that last part is really important. It puts a lot of stress on the impromptu claimed burial of Osama, particularly when considering that the given reason for it was that it was out of respect for traditional Islamic funeral rites. So not only does that reasoning contradict previous times where we've assassinated Islamic extremist leaders, but but it contradicts itself because a fundamental part of the process was completely bypassed.

"Without agreeing to the ways of OBL as to how he professed, believed and operated, We Omar Ossama Binladin, and my brothers, the lawful children of the Ossama Binladin (OBL) herewith demand an inquiry under UNO to reach to the accuracy of the facts....

....Failure to answer these questions will force us to go to International forum for justice such as International Criminal Court and International Court of Justice and UN must take notice of the violation of international law and assist us to have answers for which we are lawful in seeking them. A panel of eminent British and international lawyers is being constituted and a necessary action may be taken if no answers are furnished within 30 days of this statement."

Omar has shown himself on numerous occasions to be a fairly intelligent and well meaning individual. He has publicly opposed his father's ways and actions many times, and has constantly exhibited support for peace between the Islamic and Western world. He's not doing this as a vengeful "Fuck you!" to America for his father being taken from him, he's doing it because the event goes against examples previously set by our nation and it's ideals, and his family feels that whatever happened, it was particularly unfair to them- and they want answers.

Special thanks to Michaelas10 for bringing this to my attention, just when I was about to give up on the whole thing because I thought that nobody was going to care about the lack of evidence. He has implied doubts about my conclusion, but it's good to see that some people have been paying attention, nonetheless.

Seen here, Omar bin Laden

I read all of it, it makes sense, but the DNA tests we're allegedly positive, not to mention that one of bin Laden's wife confirmed it was his corpse.

OP watched Glenn Beck once, and now thinks he knows everything.

LOL AT OP

At 5/11/11 04:25 PM, misterchees0 wrote: I read all of it, it makes sense, but the DNA tests we're allegedly positive

Which really isn't very functional evidence for us, is it?

not to mention that one of bin Laden's wife confirmed it was his corpse.

Which I thought was the best counter argument anyone could provide, until the rest of his family came out and said they want proof of his death. Besides, I can't even imagine the circumstances where she would have been able to confirm that considering how quickly they shipped the body to a boat and then supposedly dumped it off.

At 5/11/11 04:35 PM, Scarface wrote:

OP watched Glenn Beck once, and now thinks he knows everything.

LOL AT OP

Glenn Beck is an insufferable, moronic, ass-hat. So far you're not much better, considering that you've just judged me and my theory without actually reading anything I've had to say.

Anyway, I realized immediately after posting the new update that it was a mistake to add it to this thread. Almost no one will read the new information this way because it's all the way on the second page- and as we've seen from a lot of people, reading is a lot to ask for. Hopefully it will die down quickly though and I'll just start up a new thread with the new information and a link to this one.

At 5/11/11 01:32 PM, PhoenixGodwin wrote: So a new development has come up, in which Osama bin Laden's family is calling shenanigans as well.

It's just hearsay. Just words somebody wrote. Could be the government, like you claim they did with Osama's daughter. If you're going to doubt written claims, why make a double standard and only doubt those that counter your point of view?

If there was any chance of Osama being alive, Al Qaeda would not have confirmed his death.

At 5/11/11 01:32 PM, PhoenixGodwin wrote: ......Most importantly, when it is a common knowledge that OBL's family is residing at one place outside KSA, why they were not contacted to receive his dead body. His sudden and un witnessed burial at sea has deprived the family of performing religious rights of a Muslim man"

I think that last part is really important. It puts a lot of stress on the impromptu claimed burial of Osama, particularly when considering that the given reason for it was that it was out of respect for traditional Islamic funeral rites. So not only does that reasoning contradict previous times where we've assassinated Islamic extremist leaders, but but it contradicts itself because a fundamental part of the process was completely bypassed.

Okay just to point out something. Lets say Osama's body was handed over to his family. Now as you mention Islamic funeral rites involve burying his body right? You realize how his grave will become a shrine to his fellow extremist? Now I get the fact that he deserves to be buried properly but in a way throwing his body at sea would get rid of the possibility of his grave becoming a tourist attraction or a shrine.

At 5/6/11 10:03 PM, RobJohnson wrote: I read every last word.

lol j/k.

lol neither did i

At 5/11/11 04:50 PM, Michaelas10 wrote:

It's just hearsay. Just words somebody wrote. Could be the government, like you claim they did with Osama's daughter. If you're going to doubt written claims, why make a double standard and only doubt those that counter your point of view?

You're being mature and rational about this and I just first want to say that I respect that. To answer your question, the logic works on both ends. Based on all of the news and statements that we do have, there is the logical possibility that I am right, and there is the logical possibility that I am wrong. I do not deny the possibility that I am wrong, but I've been continually bringing up deductive rationales against people's counterarguments because I'm of the impression that I'm right, due to the fact that I think it would be an incredibly irresponsible decision of the cabinet to not try to extract information from Osama. As I've said, that information could potentially save many lives, and I have faith that they would try to take advantage of that as opposed to simply eliminating the information source.

I'll continue to defend my theory until someone is able to provide an infallible counter argument or until the truth is unveiled publicly- whatever it may be. If I were to give up on sustaining my theory just because it's possible that it's wrong, then what would have been the point of putting all of the effort into writing and sharing the article in the first place?

At 5/11/11 05:01 PM, 34Deadman wrote:

Okay just to point out something. Lets say Osama's body was handed over to his family. Now as you mention Islamic funeral rites involve burying his body right? You realize how his grave will become a shrine to his fellow extremist? Now I get the fact that he deserves to be buried properly but in a way throwing his body at sea would get rid of the possibility of his grave becoming a tourist attraction or a shrine.

They wouldn't have had to hand it over. To speculate on this we could easily assume that the Bin Laden family could have been invited on the ship in order to participate in the funeral. That's just one way they could have catered to the rites. Hell, they could have asked the family if they wanted to hold the burial being within 24 hours over them being able to see the body, but neither of those happened. It's not like they wouldn't have been thought of, either. Bin Laden's family is incredibly wealthy we've been interacting with them for decades.

At 5/11/11 04:56 PM, Nerdonk wrote:

If there was any chance of Osama being alive, Al Qaeda would not have confirmed his death.

Don't be an idiot.

Read the article. Al-Qaeda is practically the farthest thing from a valid source of information on this matter that we have.

:At 5/11/11 05:22 PM, Lorkas wrote:

At 5/6/11 10:03 PM, RobJohnson wrote:

I read every last word.

lol j/k.

lol neither did i

Then don't bother posting, man. I'm hoping the thread dies down soon anyway so I can start a new one about the new information.

At 5/11/11 04:48 PM, PhoenixGodwin wrote: Anyway, I realized immediately after posting the new update that it was a mistake to add it to this thread. Almost no one will read the new information this way because it's all the way on the second page- and as we've seen from a lot of people, reading is a lot to ask for. Hopefully it will die down quickly though and I'll just start up a new thread with the new information and a link to this one.

Well I read every word in this thread, so at least one of us out there is willing to entertain your idea. I do not take any solid stance on this issue, nor, probably, shall I. However, a few things do occur to me as (in my opinion in comparison to the observable status quo) a relatively attentive and critical thinker and one who does not simply believe what he is told, whatever it is, without good reason, to be fishy:

1) The lack of concrete, tangible evidence (photos which allegedly exist, video footage which allegedly *should have* existed but does not). I'm not even asking for absolutely, irrefutably conclusive evidence (although it would be nice to have and one must admit that ALL evidence can be argued EITHER way), just something to go on that is more tangible than a public statement.

2) The manner in which we *allegedly* disposed of the body. I understand the argument against creating a place for his followers to congregate, and although having such a place in and of itself seems to me as if it would be a relatively harmless thing, I can understand why no country would want such a place on their soil. I also do think that the argument that we dumped his corpse into the ocean out of "respect" is bullshit. Even if Islamic tradition accords a 24-hour period between death and burial it doesn't say to do it in the ocean or to exclude the family of the deceased from the right to do as they will with the body.

3) Pakistan. Did they REALLY not know that Osama Bin Fucking Laden was in their country for five fucking years, hiding in a house suspiciously close to military bases and installments? Why would the ISI be SO indignant about our "unauthorized and unilateral" operation and why would we have had to keep it from them? I know, this is largely irrelevant to the issue at hand (the operation DID happen, we're asking about the subsequent events), however I think it's necessary to get the whole picture into view.

4) Flip-flopping. Yes, the ultimate killer of credibility. Regardless of WHAT they're saying, the fact that any aspect of the story has been changed implies either untruth or the resolution of untruth, which still implies untruth and undermines ALL credibility.

Ultimately, once again, I do not hold on to any strong stance on this issue. ALL we have to work with is conjecture. However, I'm not the type to automatically trust the given word of authority without proof, and I AM the type to think that the witholding of said proof is indicative of (not conclusively, but nonetheless indicitave of) untruth.

What or why (and if) we're being lied to about is beyond me, however I am an extremely strong proponent of Accountability.

I understand that the global political scene being what it is, genuine, 100% transparency of government and military could compromise the safety of the constituents the members thereof are sworn to protect, and as such I can understand your argument that the information is being witheld for our own safety (although I don't opine either way).

However, I do FIRMLY believe that were the entire congregate of world governing bodies to be made 100% accountable and transparent in their activities and collected intelligence we would have no choice but to resolve our differences in a global forum and many of the social and political walls seperating the people of the world from one another would crumble.

Granted, I also understand that many technologies and intelligences we posess (ProjectPegasus.net and a wonderful radio interview with Andrew Basiago about his experiences as a child in the 70's and 80's traveling through time and space using post-Tesla technologies we've been in posession of for over 40 years and his subsequent campaign to expose them), regardless of "national" security, might very likely scare the living SHIT out of humanity and cause mass panic, and as such it's an ethical question as well as one of military power about whether or not to expose everything we know and compromise the geopolitical stability (if it could be called stable) of the world.

Accountability's a fine line, however I am STRONGLY of the opinion that the initial outbreak of panic which is almost invariable were such things as time/quantum space travel, temporal engineering, trans-dimensional beings, sentient and organized life on Mars and the like exposed, it would ultimately be for the better of humanity and provide incentive on a scale never before seen in the history of mankind to set aside our petty squabbling and unify as one race, free of the degrading effects of internal competition for conceptual value which only serves to undermine the value, potential and output of the human race.

So, in /tangent, I think that regardless of their reasoning (which, I must admit, is quite weak) for not releasing any concrete evidence, I think it is only one small, insignificant act among a political culture of deeply engrained exclusivism, secrecy and (understandable) paranoia which serves to undermine the ability of the world peoples to decide for themselves in a fully present, engaged and informed manner their own destiny and as such is, immediate reasons aside, unethical in the long run.

Plus just look at the track record of EVERY governing body in modern history: Clandestine, illegal actions covered up just well enough that people buy the line until 30-50 years later we finally do admit our actions once it's been long enough so that no recourse can reasonably be excercised.

Thank you.

I love all of you people who bash this guy, he has some of the most concise and well written idea ever, and honestly I would not be surprised if we have him right now, and guess what good.

I hope they torture the fucker for days on end.

He is fucking died from 2 bullets in his brain from the raid.
They look and DNA of him is %99.99998 percent correct. He had no twin brother.
The Navy berried his body at sea within 24 hours. They did this for the religion of Islam.
The body is now at the bottom of the ocean. THE END!

HE'S DEAD!!!

At 5/31/11 05:34 PM, mattuiop wrote: He is fucking died from 2 bullets in his brain from the raid.
They look and DNA of him is %99.99998 percent correct. He had no twin brother.
The Navy berried his body at sea within 24 hours. They did this for the religion of Islam.
The body is now at the bottom of the ocean. THE END!

HE'S DEAD!!!

Wouldn't surprise me if he is by now.

The DNA doesn't prove when he was killed though. It only (probably) proves that we removed him from Pakistan that night (dead or alive still debatable). Your arguments are very weak in light of all the discussion that has already occurred in this thread.

In all honesty all though while it does make sense for something like this to happen, and probably should I'm afraid people are right, Obama really is that much of a pussy that all of his reasons for why he did things this way are true. It is retarded and illogical, but hey the media has such a vice-gripe on the government's balls its disgusting.

You can't say one thing without being blasted by this newspaper or that, I wish they would pull their head out their asses and get back to reporting the news as it is without all their little "slants" and "nudges" that clearly lean to one side.

And If what you say is true, that gives me hope that America is still strong and willing to do not whats right or wrong for the sake of Ahmed or Muhammad, but whats necessary for the people that live in THEIR country.