So today, I was far too weak and fatigued to go to any of my classes and do anything but sleep, read and go online. I spent a lot of my early morning doing some paperwork but that's about it. Even though I wasn't at school today, it was still at the front of my mind and remains so, even now.

Anyway, later on in the day, I got caught up in Facebook conversations with two older friends--both of whom became my friends because we met at gigs years ago. Both of them are college-educated--one has a degree in Mathematics (one of my favorite subjects and this is no secret to people that know me) and the other one has a degree in Sociology. Both completed their degrees at least 2 years ago at places like Lehigh University (where my younger 19-year-old brother currently attends for industrial engineering) and SUNY Oneonta upstate. The kicker? Both are still unemployed with no hope for secure employment in the future and owe tens of thousands of dollars to student loan companies. One of those friends said to me: "If I knew college would cost so much and deliver so little, I wouldn't have bothered going to begin with."

Here's another more extreme example from just a little over 2 weeks ago: one of my high school history teachers (weird how I still keep in contact with some of my old teachers after this many years, but whatever), who I had for Global History as a freshman and U.S. History as a junior. He was a Harvard grad and had a reputation as one of the toughest history teachers in my HS. He ditched his teaching career in 2007, right after my junior year to pursue a JD program at Boston College Law School. After nearly a year removed from graduation and passing the bar exam, he has been luckless in finding a job, owes more than $100k in loans and has to stay with his parents in Detroit indefinitely. Verbatim quote: "I regret every penny I spent and every second I wasted on the whole law school experience."

What's even more fucked up is that some other people I know who have had less education have seen substantially more success. I have another friend who went to trade school and had no trouble at all finding a job as a plumber in Long Island. On the side, he also bartends. My best Jewish friend with only a high school diploma is currently an EMT in MA and plans to stay there. As a final example, another friend is soon to drop out of college to take up guitar tutoring full-time for at least $20/hour.

Throughout all of my school years (early and late), I mostly felt miserable, and that misery was especially bad in high school. I worked hard, constantly felt exhausted (much like I do now) and was often surrounded by morons...and really for what? Where has it all gotten me? Fucking nowhere, that's what. Usually when I wanted companionship, I looked outside my school, turning to people on NG, or hanging outside popular venues where my favorite bands played since I knew many of the people there were friendly and didn't have the intellectual prowess of an inbred Rett Syndrome-afflicted cunt.

I understand that most people here are in high school and college, and some maybe even in grad school or well beyond college. Nevertheless, the same general questions still apply.

Why do you bother with school? Is it strictly for the social experience or do you have an innate love for the world of academia? What has school done for you so far? Do you really believe in the age-old notion that furthering your education will lead to guaranteed wealth, happiness and prosperity? Do you really want to be doing the things school trains you for throughout the remainder of your lives, or do you think you're more innovative than that?

why do these threads pop up every day?
On topic, you are entitled to your opinion, i believe school is important, why? Because history is bound to repeat itself, but will only bring harm if we let it.
No idea why we have to take an Algebra/trig class though.

Where else can I learn material science?

I don't bother because I am banned from every school in this city.

I agree with you partially, I find the huge emphasis on school ridiculous, but if you do persevere and go to college/uni with very specific goals on what you want to become. (Ex gp, lawyer, etc..) and choose courses that are able to land you in a six-figure job then even 10 years of schooling after high school is completely worth it. Not sure about other places, but where I'm from the average salary for a GP is 230 K, now if I was 100 K in debt, that wouldn't be much of a problem. It is completely possible to still end up with a job that has a much better pay than working at McDonald's with basic schooling. However, if you want to achieve a job with a six-figure salary, then going to uni is your best bet.

At 4/25/11 10:25 PM, FrostMonarch wrote: No idea why we have to take an Algebra/trig class though.

I used to think that too, but you unconsciously are using it all the time. But Reading Comprehension and Writing is also pretty important.

Why do I bother with college? My degree will be in biochemistry with a emphasis on chemical engineering. Without a bachelor degree I have 0% of a chance of practicing the chemistry that I am/will. Most of my social experience is on my judo team and the classes don't mean dick without certification and internships on the side which would drop me instantly if I weren't pursuing my degree.

This next part is going to piss a lot of people off and I'm going to recieve major flack but degrees in Math, Sociology, Psychology, Law, Art, Music, History, and even Pre-Med don't mean a thing in terms of hireability unless you're extremely competitive and are ready for a volatile career for the rest of your life. If you want financial success you need certification and a degree that leads to a job no one can live without or do without a degree.

Uh well... it'd be impossible for me to get my license without an accredited degree?

At 4/25/11 10:21 PM, GoryBlizzard wrote: Why do you bother with school? Is it strictly for the social experience or do you have an innate love for the world of academia?

I love the social experience, but really furthering my repertoire of knowledge and skills is nice. In order to get ahead, you should get an education. Sure, you can do it without it--but you better have a strong back or be very, very talented at your art. Or "know somebody who knows somebody".

What has school done for you so far?

Given me a bit of debt, but also opened me up to many resources and new friends. Oh, and a career.

Do you really believe in the age-old notion that furthering your education will lead to guaranteed wealth, happiness and prosperity?

Not necessarily. I know plenty of people that "have everything yet have nothing". No matter what you do, be happy with yourself. Also let's not forget that you need to go for something that is viable in the real world. I've seen so many people going for "communication" or "history". Where will you go after that?

I've seen many kids just pay for college and take classes without any direction, and they end up going for extra years or dropping out completely, doomed to pay off their school debt for the rest of their lives if they don't go back (and spend more money).

Just because you have that shiny piece of paper doesn't mean you will get a job, it's as simple as that. Your music theory has little application in "the real world" unless you compose something really good and get famous (be very good at your art, like I said before).

Do you really want to be doing the things school trains you for throughout the remainder of your lives, or do you think you're more innovative than that?

Hell no. The day job is just for security purposes only. After you've conquered creature comforts, all you can do is dream of new, exciting things to do and then DO them. That's where self-actualization starts--when you don't have to worry about housing, food, transportation--your basic needs have been satisfied and now you grow personally. If you had infinite money (magnets?), what would you do?

You are not your job. Insert the rest of that Fight Club quote here. Go out, be creative, have fun, make every day special because life will have a way of passing you by if you don't.

And remember that material things will only get you so far--it's not true happiness.

So in conclusion, "School: Why Bother?" I say--why not?

I intend to go to school to learn.

Specifically Psychology, Philosophy (My intended college majors), sociology, theology, mathematics, and many others.

I intend to get a PhD, and I had already done lots of study.

I can vouch for every damn word of this. It's like a verbatim copy of what I've been doing too.

Graduated from university, with a decent degree, almost 2 years ago, and have been completely stuck for a job since. Same story with every friend that I made in uni and stayed in contact with. And it all comes down to one little fact: The only thing employers care about right now, as well as for the forseeable future, is previous experience.

However, it seems I am particularly screwed. I live in the biggest employment blackspot in the whole country (and it's been hopeless around here for a lot longer than the recession's duration, too), and I got a first-hand view of someone getting a decent job with a lot less effort than me, too. I was doing voluntary work in a school (to get around said experience vicious cycle), and when they had a job opening for exactly what I'd been doing for the last 2 months, guess who got it? Not me. The person who got it was a graduate who hadn't even had her graduation ceremony. She walked right into a job I'd been working my ass off for, for 2 months. : /

Oh, and the best bit? Her boyfriend got out of school with the bare minimum of qualifications (I think he got like 3 GCSE's or something), and is now working as a builder earning £50,000 (about $80,000) a year. On qualifications he got when he was 16. The reason, as always, was experience: He did an apprenticeship instead of higher education, which turned out to be a very wise move.

So here's some free advice, to those who are still in school and don't know what to do next: The world, it seems, is flooded with qualifications right now. They alone will get you nowhere. Do something that gets you either experience, or at least into a prospective employer's good books, and you'll likely do a lot better than those who thought education was a guaranteed ticket to success. Don't make he same mistake my entire generation did and spend your whole youth cooped up in a classroom.

At 4/25/11 10:41 PM, Bees wrote:
they are majors for a reason. theres tons of careers for both majors. the only shitty major is like fucking language or pig latin or some shit.

As cold as it sounds those majors don't improve your odds of finding a job much more than a high school diploma. A dick thing to say but when the number of people graduating far exceeds the number of job positions you're screwing yourself.

I'm just... going with the flow.

I'm having the same issue, pretty much.

However, I didn't spend tens of thousands of dollars for my education. Admittedly, I could have done research into the amount of people graduating from the seemingly billions of similar courses in Vancouver and the suburbs.

Lots of care aide programs, lots of graduates.

All of the jobs I've seen being advertised seem to need 1-2 years of previous experience, or won't hire new graduates.

How am I supposed to become what I'm good at (besides volunteering, but fuck, I want a job that pays me $16-$21/hr) if no one will hire, besides some seedy people that tend to go for more of the immigrant population that will screw them over*?

Sigh.

Now I'm starting to think about opening up my own non-medically related business...

*lots of people will hire women from the Philippines to be live-in caregivers, then pretty much hold their passports for ransom, or family members abuse the women with absurd work hours, rules, and living conditions.

I'm still in school mainly to buy time before I have to "do something with my life".
I won't be going to uni. But I might go to an animation school since I want to be animator.
But there are shit all of those in New Zealand.

At 4/25/11 10:33 PM, daethdrain wrote: Opinion much idk. Some times school is just a waste of time but you can't deny that most of the time it serves a purpose in preparing people for a fulfilling career.

Bill gates and Steve jobs were just lucky

Wait.. you're saying that Gates and Jobs prepared to become CEOs of giant companies by graduating college?

They didn't.

Sounds pretty existentialist. Trying to rationalize the irrational. Basically you didn't want to school so you spent the whole day convincing yourself it was a good idea with a few examples, then you posted it on newgrounds hoping people would confirm your opinion and thereby defeating the inner guilt that you know you SHOULD finish school.

It's not just a matter of jobs, for the rest of your life people will judge you based off your education, a topic that almost always comes up. Unless you're fucking rich as hell people won't be impressed. So there's this to consider, even if you don't care what people think it could come to harm you down the road

Honestly, I put up with school because I want a better life than I have now. Living in a cramped apartment with a stressed, single mom is not fun. I want to be a pediatrician and if it means sitting in a room filled with idiots for 8 hours, so be it. Sure, college bills will be expensive. Hopefully I can apply for scholarships in the future and I could always get loans. I can ever attend school part time and get a job on campus to help pay. For me, it's anything goes so that I never have go through the same crap I'm going through now.

This is what works for me. If anyone else doesn't want to go to college or just gets their diploma or GED, then more power to you. Whatever works for you and makes you happy.

I never completed grade 8

Oh yeah, I'm cool...
I'm a failure :(

I completely agree with you, school is pretty pointless. I don't bother it, that's why I dropped out. In my opinion you can put that time to much more useful things, like actually doing something productive instead of wasting all of that time.

I plan on joining the Navy to pay off college... and hoping I don't get boned and get bombed or shot, and if I do then preferably not in the dick, cause i'd probably just off myself if that happened.

At 4/25/11 11:10 PM, Ragenaric wrote: I plan on joining the Navy to pay off college... and hoping I don't get boned and get bombed or shot, and if I do then preferably not in the dick, cause i'd probably just off myself if that happened.

Hehe in a world where 90% of America's conflicts are in desert countries you'll be fine!

Do what you want it life, whatever makes you happy, I'm having a blast at my university and plan on going into law school after I finish this double major in philosophy and classics. Money isn't everything, if you're content doing a trade do it! Money is fine in trades to boot!

At 4/25/11 11:20 PM, Ganon-Dorf wrote: Do what you want it life, whatever makes you happy, I'm having a blast at my university and plan on going into law school after I finish this double major in philosophy and classics. Money isn't everything, if you're content doing a trade do it! Money is fine in trades to boot!

Well, frankly, bartending or working at a liquor store would make me happy, but that's about it.

Math tutoring (which is a large part of what I do now) certainly pays but isn't really enjoyable. It's not really a "happy job" for me. I don't think I'd be content doing a trade either, but I might not have much of a choice in the future.

At 4/25/11 11:20 PM, Ganon-Dorf wrote: Money isn't everything, if you're content doing a trade do it! Money is fine in trades to boot!

That's exactly the point: There is no 'trade' at the end of it. If you think education leads to a higher chance of actually getting where you want to be in life, then you've effectively been mis-sold the concept. Granted, there was little anyone could do to see it coming, but for the overwhelming majority of trades / sectors, there simply isn't a graduate job market left at all. And that's not going to change anytime soon. Ergo, what's the point right now?

you know, i agree with you, but at the same time, if you dont get an education, odds are you arent gonna get far in life

Lets take life advice from a boy who enjoys shit and eats his own cum.

I WISH I COULD BE LIKE RYDER FROM SAN ANDREAS AND BE TOO INTELLIGENT FOR SCHOOL BUT IM STILL AT GRADE 4

At 4/25/11 11:34 PM, Sheizenhammer wrote:
That's exactly the point: There is no 'trade' at the end of it. If you think education leads to a higher chance of actually getting where you want to be in life, then you've effectively been mis-sold the concept.

I agree 110%

I stated before in this topic that I intend to go to school, study many things, and major in psychology and philosophy.

But I am not doing it to get a job as _____, but because I want to learn, hence why I already studied into it, a lot.

as for cash I couldn't care less.

I really just despise school. I have a few subjects that I really, really like, History for instance is my favourite. The problem I have is that as you get older, you notice more that some teachers are just assholes, and you quickly lose respect for them because of it and you don't try, they be an asshole because you're not trying and it goes on and on. I'm in my final year at high school and quite frankly I'm looking at anything but an office job in my working life. I honestly cannot think of anything more tragic.

There are SO many jobs I want to do, but the only one I can honestly say is the one I have dreamt to do is to become a stand up comedian. It's pretty much been my dream since I started freshman year in HS. I want to do it because it's something I love to do, and the things you need to do it; charisma, being quick witted, timing i (hopefully) have. The big problem with that is the fact that it takes at least 10 years to be established, and there isn't a fucking 'Be a Comedian class' going on after HS.

Most of the people in my high school are all so sure of what they want to be: engineers, scientists, lawyers, politicians. Yet more and more I've seen their naivety. This is seriously bad, the amount of people who are planning on going to university in my school is fucking astronomical. If they all go all that's going to cause is a severe saturation of the market. So what do you go onto next? Experience. Do they have any experience? No, because they've been studying. They then wonder where the $35,000 went, and what it was really worth.