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kisame
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Response to USA attacks Libya Mar. 21st, 2011 @ 11:37 PM Reply

I don't care. Atfer 11 years of this shit, I just don't fucking care.

USA attacks Libya


Science can't lie.

BURN!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Roy-Tomara
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Response to USA attacks Libya Mar. 21st, 2011 @ 11:57 PM Reply

At 3/21/11 10:23 PM, FrailEloi wrote: Classic American sentiment.

Admire arrogance, obnoxiousness and cruelty over the 'soft' handed empathetic approach.

How entertaining.

Classic '11er reply

Trying to sound intelligent and cool but ends up looking like a unimformed cunt

Eat a dick.


"My God, I haven't be fucked like that since grade school." Marla Singer, Fight Club

FrailEloi
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Response to USA attacks Libya Mar. 22nd, 2011 @ 12:02 AM Reply

At 3/21/11 11:57 PM, Roy-Tomara wrote:
At 3/21/11 10:23 PM, FrailEloi wrote: Classic American sentiment.

Admire arrogance, obnoxiousness and cruelty over the 'soft' handed empathetic approach.

How entertaining.
Classic '11er reply

Trying to sound intelligent and cool but ends up looking like a unimformed cunt

Eat a dick.

Classic '07er response

Really super hurtful to my feelings.


im ejit im using an alt and no mods will ever catch me

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Response to USA attacks Libya Mar. 22nd, 2011 @ 01:32 AM Reply

At 3/21/11 11:57 PM, Roy-Tomara wrote:
At 3/21/11 10:23 PM, FrailEloi wrote: Classic American sentiment.

Admire arrogance, obnoxiousness and cruelty over the 'soft' handed empathetic approach.

How entertaining.
Classic '11er reply

Trying to sound intelligent and cool but ends up looking like a unimformed cunt

Eat a dick.

Shut the fuck up, '07er. You have no right to express contempt anyone else...Your generation is still fucking up, even to this day.

Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if Gaddafi accidentally gets killed in this war. I wonder what the repercussions of such an event would be. The rebels have stated that they don't desire Gaddafi's demise. Rather, they want to depose him, and nothing more.

What would the UN do if Gaddafi died in this war? God only knows.

What would the U.S. do if it ends up being the cause of Gaddafi's demise? God only knows.


I was formerly known as "Jedi-Master."

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."--Dr. Seuss

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Cootie
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Response to USA attacks Libya Mar. 22nd, 2011 @ 01:39 AM Reply

At 3/22/11 01:32 AM, Jedi-Master wrote:
What would the U.S. do if it ends up being the cause of Gaddafi's demise? God only knows.

Say, "oh cool" and then proceed to watch basketball.


For I am and forever shall be... a master ruseman.

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Response to USA attacks Libya Mar. 22nd, 2011 @ 01:48 AM Reply

At 3/22/11 01:39 AM, Cootie wrote:
At 3/22/11 01:32 AM, Jedi-Master wrote:
What would the U.S. do if it ends up being the cause of Gaddafi's demise? God only knows.
Say, "oh cool" and then proceed to watch basketball.

I can imagine his face now.

USA attacks Libya


I was formerly known as "Jedi-Master."

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."--Dr. Seuss

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Spartan204
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Response to USA attacks Libya Mar. 22nd, 2011 @ 02:31 AM Reply

At 3/21/11 10:23 PM, FrailEloi wrote:
At 3/21/11 09:42 PM, Alfraydo wrote: Truth be told, Gadaffi has my respect.
Classic American sentiment.

No, classic remark from an uninformed person that thinks they have smart, edgy opinions and ideas. No need to bias by nationality, stupidity is very much so universal.


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Response to USA attacks Libya Mar. 22nd, 2011 @ 03:57 AM Reply

hopefully we'll know when to step out from in front of the fan this time before it's too late..


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Response to USA attacks Libya Mar. 22nd, 2011 @ 07:36 AM Reply

Some facts and my opinions for the masses:

The UN Mandate that France, Britain, the US and allies are enforcing gives authority to participating UN Member States to do the following:

1. Impose a no fly zone in Libyan airspace. This means all aircraft, minus those of participating Member States, Libyan aircraft used for the treatment, resupply and/or evacuation of civilians and civilian airliners evactuation citizens out of the country.

2. Use any and all means necissary to protect civilians from harm, EXCLUDING an occupation force.

3. Facilitate a situation where a ceasefire can be arranged and enforced by the two sides of the conflict.

4. Prevent Mercenary forces from entering Libya and engaging in the conflict.

France and Britain were amoung the first nations to push for a No-Fly zone in the UN security council, leading the charge by submitting a draft resolution. This resolution submitted an idea of a No-Fly zone but not more.

The United States, a little late to the game, submitted a counter draft resolution believing the original one didn't go far enough in protecting civilians.

For something similar, see the peacekeeping force of Somalia in the 90's. US soldiers had to sit back and watch as Islamic Militants ripped UN aid convoys apart because the mandate for the soldiers stationed in Mogadishu only allowed them to fire on rebels if they themselves were being fired at.

I assume the United States didn't want something similar, appearing to lead the charge to protect civilians only to lose face when one of their jets records footage of Libyan tanks demolishing a mosque while the pilot desperately tries to get authority to intervine, and for this to be leaked and plastered all over the news. Hypothetically speaking.

At the moment there is no definitive Commander in charge of the UN mission. The United States put themselves at the forefront but are due to hand over control. Suggestions are that a joint French/British Command could take over, or the NATO command could step in. Norway is refusing to dispatch its committed forces to the UN Mission until a definitive command has been appointed.

The main contentious issue with this UN mission is the fact it isn't clear what consitutes 'protecting civilians from harm'. One might argue that protecting civilians from harm is to destroy a tank convoy attacking a built up city, shelling it indiscriminatly. Another might argue it is better to destroy that tank convoy before it ever reaches the city, despite the fact it may not be clear who or what the tanks intend to target/engage.
The destruction of Air Defence installations is reasonable, in my opinion, as it is part of enforcing a No-Fly zone. If the peace keepers can't safely fly their aircraft into particular sections of Libya, an all encompassing No-Fly zone can't effectively be enforced.

The attacks on Naval bases and command and control centers require a little more reasoning, as I'm unsure how this directly protects civilians from harm. This smells more like decapitating the Libyan loyalist military command, therefore making Rebel operations easier, and that's getting a bit too involved in a civil war for my liking. If we want to actively help the Libyan rebels, we need a clearer mandate allowing us to do so.

Another interesting point to note is that the resolution strictly forbids, using black and white clear language, that an occupation force may not be used. What it fails to do is define what an occupation force is. With clever use of word play and legal language, one can say that putting ground troops to directly assist Libyan Rebels could be a legitimate method of 'protecting civilians from harm' and because the troops are only 'assisting' the rebels it isn't 'technically' an occupation force. Special Forces ground troops can also be quite easily justified, as they are small level combat teams performing very particular roles. SF teams don't take and hold ground in a broader military sense.

My personal view is that the UN needs to get its act together in improving the language used in resolutions to make it clear to what extent nations can use them in support of particular actions. I also have no doubt that various Special Forces troops from the involved nations are currently on the ground performing target aquisition and observation roles, if not directly getting their hands dirty.


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Response to USA attacks Libya Mar. 22nd, 2011 @ 07:44 AM Reply

Update since my last post. A US warplane has crash-landed.

"A US warplane has crash-landed in Libya, a US military spokesman says.

The spokesman, Kenneth Fiddler, told the BBC there was no indication the F-15E Eagle had been brought down by hostile fire.

Both crew members ejected safely after what was believed to be a mechanical failure, US officials say."

Desert air, coupled with the high tempo of these raids and the location of the crash landing lead me to believe this was likely a mechanical fault, most common for these theatres being engine stall by dust clogging and/or engine fatigue. It'd make even more sense if this F15 has seen service in Afghanistan recently. F15's are old and only getting older.


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Lorkas
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Response to USA attacks Libya Mar. 22nd, 2011 @ 08:00 AM Reply

At 3/21/11 11:57 PM, Roy-Tomara wrote:
At 3/21/11 10:23 PM, FrailEloi wrote: Classic American sentiment.

Admire arrogance, obnoxiousness and cruelty over the 'soft' handed empathetic approach.

How entertaining.
Classic '11er reply

Trying to sound intelligent and cool but ends up looking like a unimformed cunt

Eat a dick.

Perma-newfag.


My topics when I wasn't an asshole...12
NOBODY IS ALLOWED TO STEAL AND/OR EDIT MY SIG WITHOUT MY PERMISSION

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IncendiaryProduction
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Response to USA attacks Libya Mar. 22nd, 2011 @ 04:24 PM Reply

At 3/21/11 10:34 PM, FireWOLF109 wrote: Man, out of one war and into another... when will it end...

It won't. It's human nature, always has been and always will be.


A merry heart does good like a medicine; but a broken spirit dries the bones. Proverbs 17:22
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iateamexican
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Response to USA attacks Libya Mar. 22nd, 2011 @ 04:31 PM Reply

AHAHAHHA
Less than a week in Libya and the US have already managed to crash one of their planes and shoot the people trying to help the injured out of the wreckage.
Classic.


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Response to USA attacks Libya Mar. 22nd, 2011 @ 04:33 PM Reply

At 3/22/11 04:31 PM, iateamexican wrote: the US have already managed to crash one of their planes

It's our fault dust exists.


A merry heart does good like a medicine; but a broken spirit dries the bones. Proverbs 17:22
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Response to USA attacks Libya Mar. 22nd, 2011 @ 04:35 PM Reply

Amerika.


A lot of people have pictures for their signatures. But that's stupid. I'm not going to do that. That is so 2008. Not even kidding. Jeez, you guys are stoopid.

iateamexican
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Response to USA attacks Libya Mar. 22nd, 2011 @ 04:37 PM Reply

At 3/22/11 04:33 PM, IncendiaryProduction wrote:
At 3/22/11 04:31 PM, iateamexican wrote: the US have already managed to crash one of their planes
It's our fault dust exists.

It's your fault you don't have the common sense to not send jets that dive bomb into the ground with a bit of dust into a country in the Sahara fucking desert.


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Mans0n
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Response to USA attacks Libya Mar. 22nd, 2011 @ 04:40 PM Reply

Looks like what's happening in Libya is Starting to occur in Yemen as well :/


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IncendiaryProduction
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Response to USA attacks Libya Mar. 22nd, 2011 @ 04:41 PM Reply

At 3/22/11 04:37 PM, iateamexican wrote: It's your fault you don't have the common sense to not send jets that dive bomb

Dive bombing isn't necessary with modern bombs.

into the ground with a bit of dust into a country in the Sahara fucking desert.

Well since planes are out of the equation, let's just use magic.


A merry heart does good like a medicine; but a broken spirit dries the bones. Proverbs 17:22
"It's not gay because we're bros." - Gobblemeister

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Response to USA attacks Libya Mar. 22nd, 2011 @ 04:43 PM Reply

At 3/22/11 04:37 PM, iateamexican wrote:
At 3/22/11 04:33 PM, IncendiaryProduction wrote:
At 3/22/11 04:31 PM, iateamexican wrote: the US have already managed to crash one of their planes
It's our fault dust exists.
It's your fault you don't have the common sense to not send jets that dive bomb into the ground with a bit of dust into a country in the Sahara fucking desert.

Since when does any modern fighter, US or otherwise divebomb?

Also, dust devils exist in the middle east and in africa.

iateamexican
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Response to USA attacks Libya Mar. 22nd, 2011 @ 04:43 PM Reply

At 3/22/11 04:41 PM, IncendiaryProduction wrote: Well since planes are out of the equation, let's just use magic.

Or, you know, planes that can actually fly.


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Response to USA attacks Libya Mar. 22nd, 2011 @ 04:45 PM Reply

At 3/22/11 04:43 PM, iateamexican wrote:
At 3/22/11 04:41 PM, IncendiaryProduction wrote: Well since planes are out of the equation, let's just use magic.
Or, you know, planes that can actually fly.

How did it crash if it wasn't flying?


A merry heart does good like a medicine; but a broken spirit dries the bones. Proverbs 17:22
"It's not gay because we're bros." - Gobblemeister

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Response to USA attacks Libya Mar. 22nd, 2011 @ 04:45 PM Reply

At 3/22/11 07:44 AM, SkeletonGimp wrote: Update since my last post. A US warplane has crash-landed.

"A US warplane has crash-landed in Libya, a US military spokesman says.

The spokesman, Kenneth Fiddler, told the BBC there was no indication the F-15E Eagle had been brought down by hostile fire.

Both crew members ejected safely after what was believed to be a mechanical failure, US officials say."

Desert air, coupled with the high tempo of these raids and the location of the crash landing lead me to believe this was likely a mechanical fault, most common for these theatres being engine stall by dust clogging and/or engine fatigue. It'd make even more sense if this F15 has seen service in Afghanistan recently. F15's are old and only getting older.

The thing with the F15s though is they have alot of failsafes to prevent them from just crashing out of mid air due to mechanical failures but engine fatigue would be the most likely of any explanation if pilot error wasn't a factor.

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Response to USA attacks Libya Mar. 22nd, 2011 @ 04:46 PM Reply

At 3/22/11 04:43 PM, MercatorMapV2 wrote: Since when does any modern fighter, US or otherwise divebomb?
At 3/22/11 04:41 PM, IncendiaryProduction wrote: Dive bombing isn't necessary with modern bombs.

Ha ha, oh wow.
'Dive bomb' as an exaggeration of 'crash'.
You guys really are that stupid..


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Response to USA attacks Libya Mar. 22nd, 2011 @ 05:05 PM Reply

At 3/22/11 04:46 PM, iateamexican wrote:
Ha ha, oh wow.
'Dive bomb' as an exaggeration of 'crash'.
You guys really are that stupid..

No, but you are. For thinking that anyone could predict such a thing if all preflight checks were correctly carried out.

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Response to USA attacks Libya Mar. 22nd, 2011 @ 05:59 PM Reply

At 3/22/11 04:46 PM, iateamexican wrote: Ha ha, oh wow.
'Dive bomb' as an exaggeration of 'crash'.
You guys really are that stupid..

How are we supposed to make a connection between WWII bombing strategies and jet engine failure?


A merry heart does good like a medicine; but a broken spirit dries the bones. Proverbs 17:22
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Response to USA attacks Libya Mar. 22nd, 2011 @ 07:53 PM Reply

Jet engine failure = America is stupid.

you people are really grasping for straws, eh? Also... my fucking topic... get back on subject.

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Response to USA attacks Libya Mar. 23rd, 2011 @ 02:17 PM Reply

The USA has taken a step down and is now taking a less significant role. A European power will be the main player in this it seems. Gaddafi seems to be getting cold feet lately. Or, that is what Secretary of State Hilary Clinton says.


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Response to USA attacks Libya Mar. 23rd, 2011 @ 03:07 PM Reply

I'm hearing it's possible Obama could get impeached for this attack. Another waste of tax payers money, another war.


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Response to USA attacks Libya Mar. 23rd, 2011 @ 03:12 PM Reply

At 3/23/11 03:07 PM, smeagol1 wrote: I'm hearing it's possible Obama could get impeached for this attack. Another waste of tax payers money, another war.

You hear wrong.

The president has to commit a crime to be considered being impeached.

The house of representatives has to charge him with a crime.

The senate has to have the trial.

He has done nothing illegal or outside the confines of the constitution. Not to mention the cause was just.


A merry heart does good like a medicine; but a broken spirit dries the bones. Proverbs 17:22
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Response to USA attacks Libya Mar. 23rd, 2011 @ 03:51 PM Reply

At 3/22/11 04:45 PM, All-American-Badass wrote:
At 3/22/11 07:44 AM, SkeletonGimp wrote:
Desert air, coupled with the high tempo of these raids and the location of the crash landing lead me to believe this was likely a mechanical fault, most common for these theatres being engine stall by dust clogging and/or engine fatigue. It'd make even more sense if this F15 has seen service in Afghanistan recently. F15's are old and only getting older.
The thing with the F15s though is they have alot of failsafes to prevent them from just crashing out of mid air due to mechanical failures but engine fatigue would be the most likely of any explanation if pilot error wasn't a factor.

This is true, F15s, specifically F15E's do indeed operate failsafe systems, but these are mostly for the event of electronic failure, such as the controls frying up. Think of it as running yourcomputer on 'Safe Mode' since the failsafes act as a kind of back up aircraft control system.

Mechanical failure is that, the physical mechanics break down and unless these are reduntant (ie a wing piece where using Fly By Wire the other wing and tail panels can compensate) any issues mechanically aren't going to be fixed electronically.

An educated guess would be that there are two main issues that resulted in the crash.

One is that high levels of dust clogged up moving parts in the air intake, resulting in loss of airflow and therefore loss of power. This would then result in a stall, and if not fixed before a safe altitude the pilots did right to eject. Large quantities of dust, especially in sand storms or dust clouds, can literally stick to surfaces inside jet engines like glue and stop them from moving effectivelly or moving at all. Get enough dust in your intake fans and you're fucked, however unless there's some heavy dust cover in the skies above Libya or the airforce base/carrier these fighters are operating from, I'd be suprised if dust clogging was the case considering how early into the operation this crash occured.

The other is engine fatigue/failure. This could be a result of dust damage to the air intakes (different from clogging, rather then 'freezing' the parts up in a sheet of thick dust, dust damage causes metal parts to rust and/or decay out of shape and occurs over time, usually over a period of a week or two in high intensity air campaigns. At high speeds, it's surprising how much dust can eat away at the surfaces of paint and metals) It could also be a result of aircraft over-use, maintenance failure/human error in repairs, or simply old componants finally giving up. As I already said, F15s, even the E series, are getting old. Cannibalising parts from stockpiled F15's is comman practice I hear from USAF pilots I've met since its seen as too expensive and time consuming to replace many engine componants outside of the usual cycle of refits/retrofits/upgrades, but this is heresay so don't take my word as fact.

The latter seems more likely if it's a mechanical and not electronic issue, but unless this particular aircraft has been involved in intense fighter runs in afghanistan recently it's unlikely dust damage was the cause.


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