Atheism Disproven?

[Major-n0ob]

Sorry about the length, but this is something I have been thinking a lot about lately after talking with some atheists and I feel it needs some discourse. Before we begin, I would like to firmly define atheism. According to Merriam and Webster, atheism is defined as,

a : a disbelief in the existence of deity b : the doctrine that there is no deity
Origin of ATHEISM
Middle French athéisme, from athée atheist, from Greek atheos godless, from a- + theos god

From that, and from conversations with atheists, I take atheism to mean the following

1) That God or god(s) do not exist
2) That there is no afterlife
3) That nothing of supernatural occurrence ever happens

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Almost every conversation with an atheist boils down to creationism and the Big Bang Theory. The Christian will ask where all the matter and energy came from that started the universe and the atheist will respond with the idea that there was never a point in time before the Big Bang. In other words, people believe that time has a beginning, before which there was no such thing as time. You can find that sentiment here,

"According to their calculations, time and space had a finite beginning that corresponded to the origin of matter and energy."3 The singularity didn't appear in space; rather, space began inside of the singularity. Prior to the singularity, nothing existed, not space, time, matter, or energy - nothing."

Source: http://big-bang-theory.com/

However, the idea that time did not exist before the Big Bang seems to be in question now.

"String theory suggests that the big bang was not the origin of the universe but simply the outcome of a preexisting state"

Source: http://www.scientificamerican.com/articl e.cfm?id=the-myth-of-the-beginning-2004-
05

"The Big Bang was big, but it wasn't the beginning, Cambridge University mathematical physicist Neil Turok says."

Source: http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries /news/2008/02/qa_turok

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Now let us take a step back and reexamine this information. Scientists agree that the Big Bang happened, and it is now being said that time itself DID exist before the Big Bang occurred. This means that there was a point in time, before the Big Bang, where a great deal of matter and energy did not exist. Then, after the Big Bang, this matter and energy existed. Aside from the obvious issues of conservation of mass and energy one must consider that the second law of thermodynamics stipulates that the universe will proceed towards disorder. This being said, if the Big Bang event really happened, which scientists believe, then it was by its very definition a supernatural phenomenon. After all, it is violating the first two laws of thermodynamics.

This is where I point out the asinine mockery that atheists use when they bring up the "flying spaghetti monster" comment. They purport to say that the existence of God is utterly ridiculous, but what I find ridiculous is how one would prefer to believe in a supernatural event that occurred without cause and has never occurred again since. If the Big Bang event really happened, and it wasn't the work of God, then it would require us to choose between the Big Bang or the Laws of Thermodynamics. Otherwise, the atheistic standpoint stands on a scientific contradiction.

To me, it seems like a done deal. I don't know for certain which religion (if any) is the truth, but it seems to me that atheism simply isn't possible scientifically. I apologize for the long read, but if you made it through, grats. Here's a cookie.

[Cootie]

We don't know how the universe was made. Instead of being humble and admitting that we lack this knowledge we will create the giant bubble monster so we don't have to use the scientific theory.

[FluffyAxe]

I didn't read that but I'll take the cookie anyways.

[TheSporkLord]

At 3/17/11 08:33 PM, Cootie wrote: We don't know how the universe was made. Instead of being humble and admitting that we lack this knowledge we will create the giant bubble monster so we don't have to use the scientific theory.

That is incredibly stupid.

Anyway atheism is simply a lack of belief in a deity. Even then it's just a personal belief.

Can't really be disproven unless God comes down from heaven and says " I'M REAL GUISE "

[Leidolfr]

the truth is if there is a god, hes far too smart for you to figure out if hes there or not, hes the universal ninja, hes chuck Norris' kryptonite. but, i dont think theres a god, and the great thing is, i dont have to explain why, I know why, what you know or think you know is really independent of me entirely

[Cootie]

Man and planet Earth were made in the same week. Somehow this doesn't add up well.

[Major-n0ob]

At 3/17/11 08:36 PM, TheSporkLord wrote:

At 3/17/11 08:33 PM, Cootie wrote:

Can't really be disproven unless God comes down from heaven and says " I'M REAL GUISE "

Actually it can. The gist of what I was saying in my OP is that the Big Bang itself defies the Laws of Thermodynamics and could not have occurred unless it was a supernatural event.

[TheSporkLord]

At 3/17/11 08:37 PM, Cootie wrote: Man and planet Earth were made in the same week. Somehow this doesn't add up well.

You stereotype and make your remarks out of complete ignorance.

[kingcrazy2000]

Pansys.
This is why I prefer Fictionology, no mindless fights with others over your religion because the main point of it is being free.

[Leidolfr]

At 3/17/11 08:37 PM, Cootie wrote: Man and planet Earth were made in the same week. Somehow this doesn't add up well.

Because any game of telephone doesnt prove humans fuck up messages and facts alot, some change them just for the giggles, Renaissance anons

[Cootie]

At 3/17/11 08:38 PM, TheSporkLord wrote:

At 3/17/11 08:37 PM, Cootie wrote: Man and planet Earth were made in the same week. Somehow this doesn't add up well.

You stereotype and make your remarks out of complete ignorance.

The Bible itself says that man and the Earth were made in the same week. I know this for I have read a good portion of the Bible. How about the scientific fact that man and dinosaurs were separated by millions of years.

Million years > six days.

[Neoncrotch]

nothing is real.

Errything is permitted

[Leidolfr]

At 3/17/11 08:40 PM, Neoncouch wrote: nothing is real.

Errything is permitted

Nothing isa true, everything isa permitted, requisite in pace.

[Piggler]

I am a Pastafarian. It is a glorious religion with almost non-existant moral standards, pirates as devine beings, and pasta.

also, Pastafarian heaven has a beer volcano

[Cootie]

At 3/17/11 08:46 PM, BrazilianNinja wrote:
Oh, Cootie. I think Spork knows that already, but is just ridiculing your lack of perspective.

Lack of perspective? Explain please?

[TheSporkLord]

At 3/17/11 08:40 PM, Cootie wrote:

At 3/17/11 08:38 PM, TheSporkLord wrote:

At 3/17/11 08:37 PM, Cootie wrote: Man and planet Earth were made in the same week. Somehow this doesn't add up well.

You stereotype and make your remarks out of complete ignorance.

The Bible itself says that man and the Earth were made in the same week. I know this for I have read a good portion of the Bible. How about the scientific fact that man and dinosaurs were separated by millions of years.

Because all religion is based off the bible. The idea of religion exists as an explanation of how EVERYTHING got created. What if some form of Deity simply created the materials necessary for the big bang and evolution took place from there? You, like most other idiots I've met, base your argument solely off of Fundamentalism, or a strict belief that everything in the bible is true.

Evolution does not disprove the existence of a god.

[Richard]

At 3/17/11 08:40 PM, Cootie wrote:

At 3/17/11 08:38 PM, TheSporkLord wrote:

At 3/17/11 08:37 PM, Cootie wrote: Man and planet Earth were made in the same week. Somehow this doesn't add up well.

You stereotype and make your remarks out of complete ignorance.

The Bible itself says that man and the Earth were made in the same week. I know this for I have read a good portion of the Bible. How about the scientific fact that man and dinosaurs were separated by millions of years.

Million years > six days.

You're an idiot cootie. And any attempt you have at going on about religion has little merit.

I would much rather see somebody who has actually studied religion in college go on, than your drivel that you gathered from reading a book that has been horribly mistranslated at least a dozen times, and is thousands of years old, and thus no longer relevant to today's universe.

I.E. Timmy. That guy has studied religion. He's also older than you. And not a moron.

[dlxrevolution]

I WANT COOKIE!

[poxpower]

At 3/17/11 08:30 PM, Major-n0ob wrote:

From that, and from conversations with atheists, I take atheism to mean the following

And there's your first mistake.
Atheism: the lack of belief in God.

Which is none of your definitions.

After all, it is violating the first two laws of thermodynamics.

Those laws are only valid within the universe which means after the Big Bang. They can't be violated prior to existing.

If the Big Bang event really happened, and it wasn't the work of God, then it would require us to choose between the Big Bang or the Laws of Thermodynamics.

Unless you understood rudimentary physics of course.

[Richard]

In order for the material for the to exist that produced the big bang, something had to exist to contain that material. That tiny fraction of space was the universe.

AMIRITE?

[MushookieMan]

Ever heard of indeterminism? Things can literally come from nothing. Virtual particles for example.

You haven't proven the existence of a personal all powerful eternal being.

[Im-A-Pirate]

Atheism cannot be disproven for the same reason religion cannot be proven. Everything is only theory and we will never, ever get proof except for anecdotal evidence which amounts to my dick

[Richard]

*for the material*

And this is not about when keeping it real goes on. This is using logic that can be applied to a vast majority of 16 year olds in Alabama. Let alone the US. Being 16 in the US typically means that you think you know everything, and fuck what mom and dad, and what that professor who has 16 bachelor degrees and 4 doctorate degrees says.

[Sectus]

Way back in the day everyone believed in God and Jesus Christ. Over time, the numer of Christians has slowly started to dwindle. Why? Because God, like the tooth fairy and Santa Clause, do not exist.

God is a fairy tale, but not for just children, but all of humanity. It is a comfort to Christians to pretend that there is an all powerful being looking after them, rather than accept that humans have no guide, no powerful overlord to guide them through their trials.

Even if your god existed, why would he allow such events like the Black Plague and the Holocaust happen? He is not at all a nice God, he would be a hateful, nasty, evil one.

[TheSporkLord]

At 3/17/11 09:05 PM, Sectus wrote:

Even if your god existed, why would he allow such events like the Black Plague and the Holocaust happen? He is not at all a nice God, he would be a hateful, nasty, evil one.

We can't actually know what a God is, which is why most people just believe in some form of deity you twit. Christian God may not exist, but there are more gods outside of christianity.

At 3/17/11 08:59 PM, poxpower wrote:

At 3/17/11 08:30 PM, Major-n0ob wrote:

From that, and from conversations with atheists, I take atheism to mean the following

And there's your first mistake.
Atheism: the lack of belief in God.

Which is none of your definitions.

Except that that is his first definition. The belief that a god does not exist.

After all, it is violating the first two laws of thermodynamics.

Those laws are only valid within the universe which means after the Big Bang. They can't be violated prior to existing.

Another reason we won't ever know what actually happened.

If the Big Bang event really happened, and it wasn't the work of God, then it would require us to choose between the Big Bang or the Laws of Thermodynamics.

Unless you understood rudimentary physics of course.

Man has existed for about half a million years and out of the approximate 7 billion people on this earth, Pox apparently knows all the answers guys!

[Richard]

At 3/17/11 09:05 PM, Sectus wrote: I'm an angsty 15 year old kid who thinks he knows everything, and fuck all about what my elders have to say.

Yeah, that's what I though.

[TheSporkLord]

Something some of you may want to look into is called Deism.

[Sectus]

At 3/17/11 09:16 PM, MercatorMapV2 wrote:

At 3/17/11 09:05 PM, Sectus wrote: I'm an angsty 15 year old kid who thinks he knows everything, and fuck all about what my elders have to say.

Yeah, that's what I though.

Heh. I may be 15 years old, and I may even be angsty, but at least I don't change peoples words to what I think to be true. I am merely expressing my first amendment rights, asshole.

[BlackmarketKraig]

Atheism =/= science

Atheism is a lack of theism, or rejection of any and all deities. Atheism does not need to rely on science, like a religion, all it needs is faith.

Science and math themselves do not and never will purport to know all the answers but always seeks to uncover them.

There are theories about the causation of the big bang, some day we may understand it better.

You claim that theory of time existing before the big bang proves that a deity or deities created the big bang? To me that is as ludicrous as any other religious 'theory' about anything; based in absolutely nothing other than this wishful thinking that there are some magic beings causing things to occur, which is to say that it doesn't try to solve anything it's just a way to say; "here's a possibility, let's not look into it any further."

When you want to prove or disprove something, it is better to use logic and facts than blind faith.

No, we don't completely understand the causation of the big bang, but to say that a magical being decided to create stuff without any real evidence other than "it's something we don't fully understand." Is asinine.

[Cootie]

At 3/17/11 09:18 PM, TheSporkLord wrote: Something some of you may want to look into is called Deism.

Fun Fact: Thomas Jefferson was a Deist and made his own version of the Bible. He cut out all of the stuff that he considered to be "hogwash". I know for a fact that Jedi-Master is a deist.

I thought this thread was about the Christian religion being true and atheism being false. That is where my confusion came from. But, OP wrongly believes that all atheist think the Big Bang is real.

sorry for the confusion.