Educated versus non-educated

[RubberTrucky]

My question: Are university students overall smarter, better informed than the working people?

This is based on a discussion I had a while ago with someone about things like higher entry prices in Britain and so on. In particular, I raised a point someone made on the BBS about university being a luxury thing and I wondered if this is a fact (do we need more people in archaeology when they could as well work in construction?)
One of his main points was that university is good, since it educates the people better and learns them to form an informed opinion.

So I wondered, is this agreeable?
Mind you, I can accept some farmers are a whole lot smarter than some stupid students. But I'm talking overall. (so take your average person with a degree in... and compare with an everage non-university guy/girl)

[Gagsy]

All I know is that you can have a more intelligent and exciting conversation with an average Joe than with some snotty uni kid who thinks he knows everything, then grows up to continue that belief once he has got his degree.

[Lintire]

Honestly, it's really hard to tell in itself - there are plenty of smart, decent and informed people who have never set foot in an university, but on the other hand, you'd never see a bogan/hillbilly/derposaur going for a doctorates.

[BarryL]

Depends on the topic of discussion, really. You don't need a uni degree to be intelligent.

[RubberTrucky]

At 2/3/11 05:48 PM, Gagsy wrote: All I know is that you can have a more intelligent and exciting conversation with an average Joe than with some snotty uni kid who thinks he knows everything, then grows up to continue that belief once he has got his degree.

Well, my personal experience learns that intelligent conversations with people differs whether they are universities or average Joes. The first one tend to relay data in the abstract outside perspective, whereas average joe prefers pitting from his own experience (oh the crude irony) and from his personal perspective.

This may be due to the people i had a conversation with, though.

Perhaps a wider question: Do we need as much college students as we have now?

At 2/3/11 05:52 PM, RubberTrucky wrote: Perhaps a wider question: Do we need as much college students as we have now?

Almost indefinitely, no.

But prospective students will not factor in that in my experience, though maybe that will change very soon. It seems like the right thing to do for many reasons: it's still pushed by the government (for financial reasons primarily), high school counsellors (British groups like Conexxions for instance) are likely to use a catch-all 'You'll probably need to go to university for that' line in career discussions, the very idea is cherished by some families, etc. But I don't think you should tell young people who are genuinely passionate about something 'worthless' (tends to relate to anything arts-based) that they're just losers too. Some people accept it (me), others less so. S'cool.

The answers to your first idea are amazingly varied. My Dad went to a polytechnic (techincal college, have been phased out generally in the UK since around 1992 due to... well, lack of substantial home manufacturing and engineering employment) which would seem like a 'lesser university' to an elitist... but he's perfectly intelligent. Although he knows his politics, he prefers not to dabble. I'm largely a political greenie, and pretend I know things. I'm aware of that though, and so I'm not really serious about it.

University has taught me things that lots of people won't know. But they on their wave won't find it interesting or even relevant in many cases. I accept that, and honestly I have similar views to students studying things I haven't the slightest bit of interest in. Non-students have the same things about them. I might come off as the kind of elitist otherworldly snob Gagsy refers to (and I know they exist, I won't deny that at all), but I hope not. Besides, if I do, I probably didn't need university to make me that way.

So I suppose it depends on what you're into. They're different depths of skill and intelligence, and I'm not going to attempt to define them. I like using my university time to read about the theory of sex in art. Others can actually get a job they're good at.

[Gobblemeister]

I guess the average joe might be more holistic and less idealistic than the university educated

More grounded in the reality and the simplicity of things than their more abstract counterparts

[DP]

Any dumbass can go to college, it just depends on whether the person is smart enough to not go. So I guess you can say that I'm advocating the blue collar non college educated people.

[triplenoob]

Well you can be a carpenter all you want, but after University I'll be the architect of what YOU are building, thus making shit loads more money. I'm not saying working in construction is shameful or anything, I know we need carpenters.

[Cootie]

I wouldn't say that they are smarter. They just have different goals and dreams in life that requires that they go to college. How smart you are has nothing to do with how much knowledge you have.

[6r0undZ3r0]

Depends on what field of study the college person is in versus the working one's profession?

[IncendiaryProduction]

Going to college doesn't change how smart you are. Education in general can't change the fact that you may be stupid person.

Take my cousin, for instance. She has always made good grades. In fact, she was just offered a $44,000 scholarship to a private university, but turned it down because a guy she knew when she was a kid and annoyed her is going there.

She always made A's in classes. Always did her homework, projects, summer reading, whatever.

She, however, is a fucking dumbass. For the longest time she thought that Hawaii and Alaska were right next to each other. She thought this, because on the map of the United States Hawaii and Alaska are usually in small boxes next to each other in the bottom of the map. When it was explained to her that this wasn't true, her mind was blown.

She also used to think that the Statue of Liberty was in France. She thought that the Eiffel Tower was in New York City.

Education can't change idiocy.

[Ryanson]

I'd say it depends on the subject matter. The working folks are more street smart and the "educated" are more book-smart.

[TheSporkLord]

Teach philosophy.

[Oembboe]

People who pursue a degree and earn it would tend to have more book smarts than others in their subject area, but that doesn't mean they have any common sense.

[yonokowhat]

the way I look at it

the people who design the guns (educated) vs people who use the guns (un educated)

probably the uneducated, they have guns

[Sekhem]

At 2/3/11 05:48 PM, Gagsy wrote: All I know is that you can have a more intelligent and exciting conversation with an average Joe than with some snotty uni kid who thinks he knows everything, then grows up to continue that belief once he has got his degree.

YEAH FUCK THOSE UPTIGHT BOURGEOIS "SCHOOLED" PEOPLE

we don't need their kind around here!

us blue collar, working class, REAL people are far more interesting!

[Prinzy2]

Overall yes, kids who are 20-25 who go to university are much smarter than those who haven't in my experience. The "industry standard" now is a degree, not taking college now is like dropping out of high school 20 years ago. Even with my own experience, my brain functions better when I'm learning new things compared to when I've only worked for a year.

[MaximusMiscimus]

In general, people who go to universities are going to be better educated.

However, there are a good minority of people who lead average 20-30K lives off of an HS degree who are very clever.

[IncendiaryProduction]

At 2/3/11 08:13 PM, BattleFieldNoob wrote: However, there are a good minority of people who lead average 20-30K lives

I'm sorry, but are we now measuring intelligence by salaries?

[Sekhem]

At 2/3/11 08:15 PM, IncendiaryProduction wrote:

At 2/3/11 08:13 PM, BattleFieldNoob wrote: However, there are a good minority of people who lead average 20-30K lives

I'm sorry, but are we now measuring intelligence by salaries?

sure, it's a form of intelligence

a higher salary indicates better social intelligence (usually)

[RubberTrucky]

At 2/3/11 07:13 PM, IncendiaryProduction wrote: Going to college doesn't change how smart you are. Education in general can't change the fact that you may be stupid person.

Not necessarilly true. Practise in a subject helps improve that subject.

Important in that example is mathematics.
That really shapes the way you treat mathematical problems and solve puzzles. A person who never studied mathematics will usually they understand nothing when someone explains something outside what a pocket calculator does. And this is not only because the subject is or isn't known, but simply because the uneducated person isn't used to treat math apropriately.

Similarly, learning how to write your ideas down in essays or learn about history shapes the way you look at things.

These are things you learn with practise, the thing you get by studying.
Sure, a stupid person might slack off and fail everything and still be stupid. Or an educated person might not know which play of Margareth Moore was turned into a 1952 movie starring Jefferson Bakry and Agneta Lawrence, but he will obtain a way to process information and work with it.

[CurvyPixel]

At 2/3/11 08:17 PM, RubberTrucky wrote:

At 2/3/11 07:13 PM, IncendiaryProduction wrote: Going to college doesn't change how smart you are. Education in general can't change the fact that you may be stupid person.

Not necessarilly true. Practise in a subject helps improve that subject.

Important in that example is mathematics.
That really shapes the way you treat mathematical problems and solve puzzles. A person who never studied mathematics will usually they understand nothing when someone explains something outside what a pocket calculator does. And this is not only because the subject is or isn't known, but simply because the uneducated person isn't used to treat math apropriately.

Similarly, learning how to write your ideas down in essays or learn about history shapes the way you look at things.

These are things you learn with practise, the thing you get by studying.
Sure, a stupid person might slack off and fail everything and still be stupid. Or an educated person might not know which play of Margareth Moore was turned into a 1952 movie starring Jefferson Bakry and Agneta Lawrence, but he will obtain a way to process information and work with it.

I agree. I mean IQ tests and stuff you have to recognise patterns, and do logic things and stuff. I reckon if you train the mind it becomes better, by, let's say, a margin of 10 IQ points.

But IQ is just something you're born with. And it doesn't really matter anyways because you may be intelligent smart, but you might not be emotionally smart or street smart.

Also, smartness isn't a measure of how good a person you are.

Love to all, yo!

[IncendiaryProduction]

At 2/3/11 08:17 PM, Sekhem wrote: sure, it's a form of intelligence

a higher salary indicates better social intelligence (usually)

I wouldn't say so.

I have met some very stupid people who make big bucks.

Yeah, they may be good at sitting at a desk and crunching numbers. But when you go home, you are still the guy that couldn't get a girl, and one just married you for your money. You have two stupid fat children who are going to be feeding off your money for the rest of your life. And you still aren't good at anything but crunching those numbers all day.

[CurvyPixel]

At 2/3/11 08:21 PM, IncendiaryProduction wrote: crunching those numbers all day.

You must be talking about accountants.

[IncendiaryProduction]

At 2/3/11 08:22 PM, CurvyPixel wrote:

At 2/3/11 08:21 PM, IncendiaryProduction wrote: crunching those numbers all day.

You must be talking about accountants.

It's an example. I was talking about my uncle in that post.

He makes 150k+ a year. He is still and idiot, and so is his family. Don't get me wrong though, they're my family and I love them, but they are dumb as rocks.

[CurvyPixel]

At 2/3/11 08:23 PM, IncendiaryProduction wrote:

At 2/3/11 08:22 PM, CurvyPixel wrote:

At 2/3/11 08:21 PM, IncendiaryProduction wrote: crunching those numbers all day.

You must be talking about accountants.

It's an example. I was talking about my uncle in that post.

He makes 150k+ a year. He is still and idiot, and so is his family. Don't get me wrong though, they're my family and I love them, but they are dumb as rocks.

Lol yes. But I would agree that it takes some agility of thinking to be someone like an engineer or something. Depends on which field you are trying to pursue.

Meanwhile, there are the study-bashers that don't necessarily have the brains but they know how to work hard, unlike me. I'm lazy.

[RubberTrucky]

Also, to clarify, I mean that college makes you more informed. I don't want to debate if college students are inherently (outside the education) smarter than working class.

It's more about being able to form an informed opinion over things overall (obviously, majoring chemistry makes you know more about chemical bindings than being a cassier)

[alfredy95]

At 2/3/11 05:49 PM, BarryL wrote: Depends on the topic of discussion, really. You don't need a uni degree to be intelligent.

I certainly agree, the question is if you are saying intelligent as in smart (data king) or wise (someone who can use their knowledge at proper times. These two are seldomly found in the same people.

[Ghetto-Penguin]

At 2/3/11 05:43 PM, RubberTrucky wrote: My question: Are university students overall smarter, better informed than the working people?

I think this is a good discussion. The thing is, college doesn't define you. Just saying their smarter is one thing. But there is no way to prove that they're more successful than someone with no college education.