The Republican Boom and Bust

[Ranger2]

After 2009, the Democratic party had taken a big blow. Obama's "tax-and-spend" policies such as the stimulus and healthcare were wildly unpopular. More people realized that electing a more leftist Democrat would not cancel out the colossal damage done by rightist George Bush. People were moving towards the center.
"Stop spending our money!" people cried. "cut the budget and halt our out-of-control spending!"

That's when things went wrong.

The Republicans had a great opportunity in their hands: public opinion was turning against Obama. The 2010 midterms were on their way. Polls predicted a big Republican sweep. After all, Republicans had been harassing Obama over healthcare and his crazy spending. The people believed that a Republican victory would finally stop our spending.

And the GOP took this opportunity and screwed it up.

Instead of promising to work for the good of the country, John Boehner and other Republicans proclaimed that their mission was to deny Obama a second term. They would fight against his healthcare and pretty much stand in the way of anything proposed by a Democrat.

GOP leaders like Sarah Palin told Republicans to reload their figurative guns and get Democrats out of office.
As soon as they took office Republicans blocked anything coming from Obama, raised the deficit with tax cuts, and flatly refused to work with Republicans. They further embraced the religious right and let the Tea Party's power grow. When in power, they wooed the far right instead of the center.

The Republicans believed that the "shellacking" Obama was given was an elephant trumpet call. They thought it was a new start of a conservative America.

It wasn't.

It was a call from moderates everywhere, those who were fiscally conservative and socially liberal. It was a call for the two parties to work together. But the Republicans misinterpreted it as a sign that America wanted them in and the Democrats out. Now it was the Republicans yet again who seemed to stand in the way of progress instead of the Democrats.

In early 2010 the Republicans seemed like the party that would stop our spending, reach out to independants, make government responsible, and work to save the United States.
Now, thanks to their partisanship they are now shooting themselves in the foot and losing support again. Their boost of support was busted by their own partisanship.

Democrats and Republicans used to try to get the support of centrists and independents. Now it seems that moderates are the date no one wants to take to the dance.

[LordZeebmork]

Here's the question you should be asking: will their attempt at changing the narrative succeed? If so, they have nothing to worry about. If not, who knows what might happen?

Don't write off the Republicans just yet.

[adrshepard]

You do realize that the elections took place in November 2010, as in three months ago, and not a year and three months, like it seems you believe?

[Camarohusky]

At 2/3/11 04:48 PM, adrshepard wrote: You do realize that the elections took place in November 2010, as in three months ago, and not a year and three months, like it seems you believe?

Ok sure. Shorten the time frame by a few mon ths (as the promises started rolling in long before the elections) but the point is still the same. The Republicans got voted into office to work with the moderates, not to be Republicans. The fact that you isnist it was less time just enhances how much this golden opportunity was bungled.

[gumOnShoe]

If you believe Obama has been anything other than a compromising moderate you're fucking yourself.

[Ranger2]

At 2/3/11 04:48 PM, adrshepard wrote: You do realize that the elections took place in November 2010, as in three months ago, and not a year and three months, like it seems you believe?

I know when they were. I voted in them.

[adrshepard]

At 2/3/11 05:40 PM, Camarohusky wrote:

At 2/3/11 04:48 PM, adrshepard wrote: You do realize that the elections took place in November 2010, as in three months ago, and not a year and three months, like it seems you believe?

The fact that you isnist it was less time just enhances how much this golden opportunity was bungled.

This begs the question of what you would consider "bungled?" The 112th Congress has been in session for a single month and you are already saying that Republicans in the house (since they don't control the senate) have failed to do what they said they would.
Now according to opencongress.org, congressmen in both houses have introduced about 750 bills since the 112th Congress convened in January. I am not going to read the text of all those bills and compare them to the campaign pledges of their sponsors just to say you're wrong that Republicans haven't tried to make the changes they promised. Unless you're using some other criteria.
It can't be about bills enacted, which apparently is just one if this is accurate. Republicans can't force legislation. They don't have the seats.
All that leaves is opinion polls, in which Obama has a slightly higher approval rating now than before the election. I shouldn't have to explain why it's a bad idea to draw sweeping conclusions from a poll.

The Republicans got voted into office to work with the moderates, not to be Republicans.

According to who? And define "moderate?" Anyone who supports existing healthcare reform in its entirety? Does a congress have to pass a certain number of bills before they are "moderate" by your standards?
Did you ever consider that there is no effective "moderate" solution to any of the major problems we face because the stakes are so high and the measures to really fix it are so dramatic?

I've always had a problem with so-called "moderates" for precisely this reason. There's no defined ideology, only the notion that they are somehow more "reasonable" and those with declared principles are nothing but dicks who get in the way.

[Light]

At 2/3/11 06:54 PM, gumOnShoe wrote: If you believe Obama has been anything other than a compromising moderate you're fucking yourself.

This statement is highly contentious and up for debate you know.

[LardLord]

At 2/5/11 02:30 PM, Jedi-Master wrote:

At 2/3/11 06:54 PM, gumOnShoe wrote: If you believe Obama has been anything other than a compromising moderate you're fucking yourself.

This statement is highly contentious and up for debate you know.

According to people who pathologically despise Obama and would never support him, even if the United States experienced its most prosperous times under his tutelage

[Warforger]

At 2/3/11 02:43 PM, Ranger2 wrote: After 2009, the Democratic party had taken a big blow. Obama's "tax-and-spend" policies such as the stimulus and healthcare were wildly unpopular.

* among right wingers

Errr the Stimulus lowered taxes to record levels. Alot of the critique of the healthcare bill was unfounded and laughable, some made some sense but most were "DA SOCIALISM DURRRRRRRRR"

The problem is that people don't want to pay up for their services since we pay for our programs through money we don't have i.e. loans from say.....China.

More people realized that electing a more leftist Democrat would not cancel out the colossal damage done by rightist George Bush. People were moving towards the center.
"Stop spending our money!" people cried. "cut the budget and halt our out-of-control spending!"

Lulz he's not spending your money he's spending China's money that in turn the American people buy products from China.

Again the average person doesn't want what needs to happen, higher taxes and less loans.

That's when things went wrong.

The Republicans had a great opportunity in their hands: public opinion was turning against Obama. The 2010 midterms were on their way. Polls predicted a big Republican sweep. After all, Republicans had been harassing Obama over healthcare and his crazy spending. The people believed that a Republican victory would finally stop our spending.

Ok, what do you think the Republicans are going to do? What do you think is their plan to fix this crazy mess? The fact is that the only good way out is to cut programs like social security (killing people's retirement....), raise taxes and guess what? No one wants that and if they did they will be extremely unpopular.

And the GOP took this opportunity and screwed it up.

Instead of promising to work for the good of the country, John Boehner and other Republicans proclaimed that their mission was to deny Obama a second term. They would fight against his healthcare and pretty much stand in the way of anything proposed by a Democrat.

Let's say this is part 1

GOP leaders like Sarah Palin told Republicans to reload their figurative guns and get Democrats out of office.
As soon as they took office Republicans blocked anything coming from Obama, raised the deficit with tax cuts, and flatly refused to work with Republicans. They further embraced the religious right and let the Tea Party's power grow. When in power, they wooed the far right instead of the center.

Wow. This say is part 2, Obama tried as hard as he fucking could to work with the Republicans, in part 1 they said their only goal was to deny a second term, you see what the problem is? Its not Obama it's the Republicans.

The Republicans believed that the "shellacking" Obama was given was an elephant trumpet call. They thought it was a new start of a conservative America.

It wasn't.

A "Conservative America"? Wtf? I swear to god if say in 50-100 years America destabilizes the fucking Conservatives are going to start political executions considering how they're acting now.

It was a call from moderates everywhere, those who were fiscally conservative and socially liberal. It was a call for the two parties to work together. But the Republicans misinterpreted it as a sign that America wanted them in and the Democrats out. Now it was the Republicans yet again who seemed to stand in the way of progress instead of the Democrats.

In early 2010 the Republicans seemed like the party that would stop our spending, reach out to independants, make government responsible, and work to save the United States.

"save the United States"? From what? They were going to ignore Obama's achievements anyway from the beginning and focus on being retarded much like the Dem's ignored Bush's achievements and focused on being retarded.

2001-2008 all they did was alienate everyone else, backed up their incompetent and stubborn leader, pull into two wars, cut taxes and increased spending and increased loans. And now all of a sudden they're accusing the current leader of doing this and all of a sudden Bush was a forgotten memory that the Dem's use as an excuse?

[Ranger2]

At 2/5/11 03:54 PM, Warforger wrote:

etc. etc. etc.

Why are you trying to argue that the Republicans are doing the wrong things? That's what I'm saying too! I don't know why you're trying to somehow imply that I am vindicating Republicans, because I am not. I'm not even a Republican; I'm a Democrat.

That surprise you?

Read the whole thing I'm saying! Republicans are fucking up again! Do you somehow disagree with that statement?

[Ranger2]

At 2/5/11 03:54 PM, Warforger wrote: Errr the Stimulus lowered taxes to record levels. Alot of the critique of the healthcare bill was unfounded and laughable, some made some sense but most were "DA SOCIALISM DURRRRRRRRR"

It creates debt. How are you going to fix the debt if you don't raise taxes? It may not raise them now but it will necessitate tax raises in the future.

The problem is that people don't want to pay up for their services since we pay for our programs through money we don't have i.e. loans from say.....China.

Again, this will lead to tax raising to fix the debt.

Lulz he's not spending your money he's spending China's money that in turn the American people buy products from China.

And whose money is he going to pay back China with? If I owe you $100 and I agree to buy $100 worth of stuff from you, my debt is NOT canceled because I still got something in return from buying from you.

Again the average person doesn't want what needs to happen, higher taxes and less loans.

That's the difficulty. We're not going to get out of this without sacrifice. But we do need higher taxes (on everyone) and less crazy loans; I was never arguing contrary.

Ok, what do you think the Republicans are going to do? What do you think is their plan to fix this crazy mess? The fact is that the only good way out is to cut programs like social security (killing people's retirement....), raise taxes and guess what? No one wants that and if they did they will be extremely unpopular.

Again, I'm not saying that the GOP has the perfect plan to save us all. I'm arguing that they do not and are instead leaning more to the right.

Wow. This say is part 2, Obama tried as hard as he fucking could to work with the Republicans, in part 1 they said their only goal was to deny a second term, you see what the problem is? Its not Obama it's the Republicans.

FOR CHRISSAKES THAT'S WHAT I AM GODDAMN ARGUING! STOP REPEATING WHAT I'M SAYING AND ACTING LIKE YOU ARE BRINGING A NEW IDEA TO THE TABLE! YOU ARE REPEATING WHAT I AM SAYING.

"save the United States"? From what? They were going to ignore Obama's achievements anyway from the beginning and focus on being retarded much like the Dem's ignored Bush's achievements and focused on being retarded.

"Save the US from what?" Do you watch the news? What do you think the USA has to worry about? Deficit, wars, i could go on.

2001-2008 all they did was alienate everyone else, backed up their incompetent and stubborn leader, pull into two wars, cut taxes and increased spending and increased loans. And now all of a sudden they're accusing the current leader of doing this and all of a sudden Bush was a forgotten memory that the Dem's use as an excuse?

Oh my god are you a parrot? I know this already! I've never claimed that the Republicans were the grand saviors of America.

[Light]

At 2/5/11 02:53 PM, LardLord wrote:

At 2/5/11 02:30 PM, Jedi-Master wrote:

At 2/3/11 06:54 PM, gumOnShoe wrote: If you believe Obama has been anything other than a compromising moderate you're fucking yourself.

This statement is highly contentious and up for debate you know.

According to people who pathologically despise Obama and would never support him, even if the United States experienced its most prosperous times under his tutelage

Its most prosperous times? Our unemployment rate is at 9.0%. Sorry, but the honor of presiding over the most prosperous times goes to Bill Clinton, when the economy expanded tremendously from 1991 until 2001.

[Camarohusky]

At 2/5/11 07:59 PM, Jedi-Master wrote: Its most prosperous times? Our unemployment rate is at 9.0%. Sorry, but the honor of presiding over the most prosperous times goes to Bill Clinton, when the economy expanded tremendously from 1991 until 2001.

Exactly. But the point Lard was making was that tehre is a large group of people who would still hate Obama if he single-handedly pulled out out of this recession into the best economic times known to the human race.

[Light]

At 2/5/11 08:13 PM, Camarohusky wrote:

At 2/5/11 07:59 PM, Jedi-Master wrote: Its most prosperous times? Our unemployment rate is at 9.0%. Sorry, but the honor of presiding over the most prosperous times goes to Bill Clinton, when the economy expanded tremendously from 1991 until 2001.

Exactly. But the point Lard was making was that tehre is a large group of people who would still hate Obama if he single-handedly pulled out out of this recession into the best economic times known to the human race.

Oh. In that case, I am sorry for misinterpreting Lard's words. While I'm an independent with strong libertarian leanings, I'd support Obama if he irrefutably pulled us out of this recession and into the most prosperous economic times we have ever known. I doubt that this will be the case, however.

Hopefully, he can prove me wrong.

[adrshepard]

At 2/5/11 03:54 PM, Warforger wrote: Errr the Stimulus lowered taxes to record levels. Alot of the critique of the healthcare bill was unfounded and laughable, some made some sense but most were "DA SOCIALISM DURRRRRRRRR"

You're right that the stimulus is unfairly characterized as wasteful spending when in fact about half of it was tax cuts, but most of the criticism of the healthcare bill is dead on. It's going to cost more than was originally advertised, and even then it was dressed up to hide how there are ten years of revenues to pay for 6 years of expenses.

Ok, what do you think the Republicans are going to do?

2.5 trillion in spending cuts over 10 years.
http://www.usnews.com/news/washington-wh ispers/articles/2011/01/20/house-gop-lis ts-25-trillion-in-spending-cuts

And the GOP took this opportunity and screwed it up.

Instead of promising to work for the good of the country, John Boehner and other Republicans proclaimed that their mission was to deny Obama a second term. They would fight against his healthcare and pretty much stand in the way of anything proposed by a Democrat.

Let's say this is part 1

GOP leaders like Sarah Palin told Republicans to reload their figurative guns and get Democrats out of office.
As soon as they took office Republicans blocked anything coming from Obama, raised the deficit with tax cuts, and flatly refused to work with Republicans. They further embraced the religious right and let the Tea Party's power grow. When in power, they wooed the far right instead of the center.

Wow. This say is part 2, Obama tried as hard as he fucking could to work with the Republicans, in part 1 they said their only goal was to deny a second term, you see what the problem is? Its not Obama it's the Republicans.

So if the republicans don't want to approve job killing bills like the carbon tax and healthcare that means they aren't meeting Obama halfway? Obama didn't even have much say in crafting the healthcare bill, democratic leaders in the house and senate took primary responsibility for it. The only "concession" Obama has made that I can think of off-hand is his mild approval of the tax cut extensions. So if you're saying that the Republicans have not worked with the President, you're going to need to back that up with examples.