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At 2/21/11 06:24 PM, ToddM wrote: I am surprised that people in this country are not ready to join the people of Libya compared to Egypt. Why is this reaction right now?

Simple, until a few years ago, we have cut off all contact with Libya because of the Lockerbie attack, and Gadhafi was accused of supporting the bombers, which was part of his anti-american agenda in the Middle East. We must of assumed that almost everyone in Libya was with Gadhafi, and trying to spark a revolt at that time would have been chaotic at best.

Speaking of Gadhafi, someone really needs to take that bastard out, because the longer he is still there, the worse the situation is going to be in Libya, what with the army killing protesters and other such crimes during his reign. Unlike Tunisia and Egypt, it's possible that there is going to be a civil war between protesters and Gadhafi supporters, which more than likely would isolate Libya even more than it is now.

I'm sure that people in the free world would want to support the protesters, but we really can't do anything. Much like the protests in Tunisia, Egypt and the other countries, all we can really do is watch and hope it doesn't turn into a bloodbath.

At 2/21/11 11:15 PM, ToddM wrote:

At 2/21/11 11:02 PM, Dawnslayer wrote:
Libya: not an ally, not a powerbroker, not financially or strategically important to the US. American media blows it off, and the public isn't really conscious of it.

The lesson from this? America only gives a shit when the event affects its own bottom line. By and large, people in this country just don't care about Libya.

The thing is though they were the problem years ago to the United States and with their oil wealth it is important to cover the protests.

Exactly. Libya was a problem years ago. We've normalized relations since then. If they're not a problem now, we don't care. If they become a problem, we'll care more. I'm not saying it's not an important story, just that as a whole our country doesn't think it's important.

its very...horrible..scary almost.

At 2/22/11 12:46 AM, YellowisCOOL wrote: its very...horrible..scary almost.

Why do you say that?

Thankfully Mubarak got ass-rammed out of power.

At 2/21/11 11:34 PM, orangebomb wrote: Speaking of Gadhafi, someone really needs to take that bastard out, because the longer he is still there, the worse the situation is going to be in Libya, what with the army killing protesters and other such crimes during his reign. Unlike Tunisia and Egypt, it's possible that there is going to be a civil war between protesters and Gadhafi supporters, which more than likely would isolate Libya even more than it is now.

Sage! Turns out some Libian Army units and Diplomats have turned against the Col. Seems hiring African Mercenaries to murder your own people pisses generals off.

I'm sure that people in the free world would want to support the protesters, but we really can't do anything. Much like the protests in Tunisia, Egypt and the other countries, all we can really do is watch and hope it doesn't turn into a bloodbath.

I'm sure many countries with less than stella relationships with the Col. are making backroom deals with the opposition. Telephone calls, meetings with intelligence and diplomatic angents, the usual humdrum political crap no one gets to see.. They're in control of Libya's second city, and with Military support growing, I have a feeling time is on the protestors side.

Perhaps this is the start of something new in the middle east. A second Renaissance in the East, or a move towards Islamic Republican militancy? Who knows...

*legitimate bump* And we have elections! At least the first two days of elections are now over, which will be followed by two more rounds up until mid-January or something after which a parliament can be formed.

The Muslim Brotherhood is expected to take about of 40% of the seats in parliament. Now this looks like a bad result for them: the Islamists in Tunisia also picked up 40% of the votes and the Brotherhood should have been able to confortably top that, considering that Egpyt is a more conservative society, the Egyptian Brotherhood was more well-established and the recent turmoil with 40 protesters left dead should have been good for law-and-order parties like the Brotherhood. But now it looks like they've been outflanked on the right by the even more hardline an-Nur party, the party of the Salafists (who in their spare time like to kill 12 Christians and burn two churches in Imbaba or kill 2 Christians and burn a church in Helwan among other deadly incidents). The an-Nur party will, judging by preliminary results, end up as the third biggest party.

Now if the Salafists pick up at least 10% of the vote then this could mean that a Brotherhood-Salafi coalition could rule Egypt. For the Brotherhood, this would mean that their Islamic credentials wouldn't continuously be tested. On the other hand, a coalition with the liberals Egyptian Bloc would be more appreciated by the West (and, hence, not stop billions of dollars of annual US aid). Also, women and Christians would not see their place in society deteriorate sharply.

At 11/30/11 05:01 PM, lapis wrote: *legitimate bump* And we have elections! At least the first two days of elections are now over, which will be followed by two more rounds up until mid-January or something after which a parliament can be formed.

The Muslim Brotherhood is expected to take about of 40% of the seats in parliament. Now this looks like a bad result for them: the Islamists in Tunisia also picked up 40% of the votes and the Brotherhood should have been able to confortably top that, considering that Egpyt is a more conservative society, the Egyptian Brotherhood was more well-established and the recent turmoil with 40 protesters left dead should have been good for law-and-order parties like the Brotherhood. But now it looks like they've been outflanked on the right by the even more hardline an-Nur party, the party of the Salafists (who in their spare time like to kill 12 Christians and burn two churches in Imbaba or kill 2 Christians and burn a church in Helwan among other deadly incidents). The an-Nur party will, judging by preliminary results, end up as the third biggest party.

Now if the Salafists pick up at least 10% of the vote then this could mean that a Brotherhood-Salafi coalition could rule Egypt. For the Brotherhood, this would mean that their Islamic credentials wouldn't continuously be tested. On the other hand, a coalition with the liberals Egyptian Bloc would be more appreciated by the West (and, hence, not stop billions of dollars of annual US aid). Also, women and Christians would not see their place in society deteriorate sharply.

Most of your information is correct, especially about the Salafis, who now have 25% of the votes.

I'm not saying that you stated this but, the FJP are moderate Islamic, they are a party filled with Doctors, lawyers, teachers etc, and the vice president of their party is a Coptic Christian thinker,
think of them controlling Egypt more like how Turkey's government is.

The FJP do NOT want to form a coalition with the Salafis.
The Salafis think the FJP to be too secular and actually criticize them severely.

The FJP are more likely (hopefully) to form a coalition with the Egyptian bloc, seeing it as a better alternative than the Salafis, and knowing that the Army will be more likely to grant more power to the Parliament

As an Egyptian, I voted for the Egyptian Bloc, and like most people I talked with, thought we were going to win at least 60% if not more. The Salafis rise to power is very strange and alarming, I hope today's and tomorrows elections divert it towards the liberal parties...

The situation sucks; I wish Mubarak was back in power. Egypt can only go downhill.

At 12/4/11 10:45 PM, Ranger2 wrote: The situation sucks; I wish Mubarak was back in power. Egypt can only go downhill.

Really? Mubarak? The same president who controlled almost every aspect of Egyptian people's life including me.

I also don't like that Islamists are winning, but it's democracy, and you have no reason to say Egypt will go downhill, Egypt was already at it's lowest point, there's no way but uphill.

Mubarak is a tyrant piece of shit who sold his soul for money in exchange to help his Western allies.

The moderates failed, the military stepped in and gave the same familiar image of facism, the radicals are taking control. world peace is unattainable as long as Ideology exists.

Local paper reports that the Muslim Brotherhood has no desire to control the population through strict Islamic law. They want to install Sharia Law while, and I'm para-phrasing, "Protecting the rights and dignity of the population.'

There are many interpretations of what exactly Sharia Law is, from downright theocratic tyranny to moderate upholding of Muslim belief.

From the looks of it, which does the Brotherhood have in mind? I don't think the people will stand for anything but the latter.

Now that the Muslim Brotherhood has started to win the majority of the elections, I fear that Egypt is going to start heading in the direction of Saudi Arabia. They will most likely continue to ally with the US because if its political and economical advantages, but they will be a backward country (in my western mindset) and will start enforcing sharia law. Church and state should always be separate, in my opinion, no matter what country you are from. The people are going to be worse off with the new free elections, which probably wont be free from corruption for long. But I do wish them the best.

At 12/4/11 07:58 PM, Cochises wrote: I'm not saying that you stated this but, the FJP are moderate Islamic, they are a party filled with Doctors, lawyers, teachers etc, and the vice president of their party is a Coptic Christian thinker,

Define "moderate Islamic." The laws we have here are partly based on the Sharia of Abu Hanifa, and while that interpretation of Sharia still has a lot of things wrong with it, it's definitely a lesser evil than whatever the hell else there is.

think of them controlling Egypt more like how Turkey's government is.

That will never happen, mostly because Turkey is SECULAR. Why else would they criticize Erdogan when he called us to embrace secularism? They don't want to have anything to do with that.

At 12/5/11 03:02 PM, MultiCanimefan wrote: There are many interpretations of what exactly Sharia Law is, from downright theocratic tyranny to moderate upholding of Muslim belief.

And that is why I cringe at the thought of the Islamists taking power. The local media is as retarded as a shithouse rat; the Islamist candidates who are interviewed on TV are only questioned about their alcohol/bikini bans and how that will affect tourism. To be fair, it's partly the media's fault. There aren't really that many people interested in learning what the Islamists want besides running a backwards country. I'm just waiting to see if anyone is going to pull their heads out of their asses and actually confront them. Do the Islamists know anything about politics? How to run an economy? Foreign policy? I just wish someone would ask them that.

From the looks of it, which does the Brotherhood have in mind? I don't think the people will stand for anything but the latter.

They're not all that candid about what they want. Their vision is to run a "moderate Islamic democracy as interpreted by Sharia." The government we have now and the Sharia-based laws we have right now are what a lot can interpret as the loosest definition of "moderate Islam." So the fact that the MB have a problem with that only raises red flags. They won't change it overnight, obviously. They'll just apply one theological law after the other over an extended period of time so we can easily succumb to it.

It's too bad how Egypt was once the most popular country in the whole world, but the only thing they're known for know is taking part in the conflicts in the Middle East. I think my parents were actually on a vacation from Egypt and about a week after they left, there was this big riot. They got pretty lucky getting out when they did. I don't hear about it that much, but it has its fair share of problems that should be taken care of.

At 12/7/11 10:52 AM, Ericho wrote: It's too bad how Egypt was once the most popular country in the whole world, but the only thing they're known for know is taking part in the conflicts in the Middle East. I think my parents were actually on a vacation from Egypt and about a week after they left, there was this big riot. They got pretty lucky getting out when they did. I don't hear about it that much, but it has its fair share of problems that should be taken care of.

Well your parents were lucky! But they probably wouldn't of been in any trouble at all if they weren't any near the conflict area.

It's all happening around Tahrir Square and the surrounding streets, so anywhere else I'm sure they would've been alright.

Secondly, the last conflict Egypt has been in was against Israel, over 35 years ago, what conflict are you talking about?

Egypt, just like every country known to man, has it's problems, corruption.... I just hope we are on the way to ending it... Though I know that is pretty much impossible..

At 12/7/11 05:39 AM, ArabFreak wrote:

At 12/4/11 07:58 PM, Cochises wrote: I'm not saying that you stated this but, the FJP are moderate Islamic, they are a party filled with Doctors, lawyers, teachers etc, and the vice president of their party is a Coptic Christian thinker,

Define "moderate Islamic." The laws we have here are partly based on the Sharia of Abu Hanifa, and while that interpretation of Sharia still has a lot of things wrong with it, it's definitely a lesser evil than whatever the hell else there is.

think of them controlling Egypt more like how Turkey's government is.

Hold on... I know the MB are not the right choice for our country, I really do!
I was just stating some basic info (I agree about Turkey, wrong example, it's just I can't find a moderate Islamic run country!) about them in order for the users to see that they are not in any way like those other *Salafis* Islamic parties, that's all.

I agree with everything your saying.

If Sharia law is the basis of our constitution then Egypt will surely fail. 100% with you on that.