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At 4/15/04 08:28 AM, Dirdmister wrote: That is a stupid argument aswell as in Sweden its the law for EVERY BOY AGED 14+ MUST CARRY A GUN AT ALL TIMES!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

HAhahhahahahh

haahahahah!

ha!

You FUCKING idiot.

Take India away from the Commonwealth and see what's left.

The Commonwealth has roughly 1.7 billion people. India, by itself, has 1.1 billion.

At 4/2/07 06:12 PM, Jizzlebang wrote:

At 4/15/04 08:28 AM, Dirdmister wrote: That is a stupid argument aswell as in Sweden its the law for EVERY BOY AGED 14+ MUST CARRY A GUN AT ALL TIMES!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

HAhahhahahahh

haahahahah!

ha!

Really hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha rotflmfao

You FUCKING idiot.

At 4/2/07 06:09 PM, chazeverest wrote:

Its the same in the US. Theres large chinese, african and spanish communities.
Also Britains an island. America has a huge border with a fairy poor country.
So America probably has more illegal immigrants.

At 4/2/07 06:20 PM, zzzzd wrote:

Its the same in the US. Theres large chinese, african and spanish communities.
Also Britains an island. America has a huge border with a fairy poor country.
So America probably has more illegal immigrants.

Why must you make fun of Canada?

At 4/2/07 06:07 PM, SkunkyFluffy wrote:

:You still haven't told me why I should care.
Because it's our country.

I've seen some statistics that suggest that a significant amount of the murders in this country are perpetrated by (and on) Hispanic immigrants, mostly illegals.

I will dare to say some. But the majority are actually committed by Americans to Americans. There are however large differences in the murder rates depending on race, but not national origin. Unfortunately African American males have the highest murder commit and victim rates. But they are American, so we need to find what the problem is and fix it.

Take India away from the Commonwealth and see what's left

600,000,000.00 people from every part of the world. That's a lot of frigging people

I'm not really willing to rely on the sources that said that, but it's an interesting thought. How many murders are committed each year by people who shouldn't be here?
Some, but not many.

You know, the UK and the Commonwealth are different things

The difference between the Brits and us is that anyone from a commonwealth country has a commonwealth passport so entry into any other commonwealth country is extremely easy.

So? Getting a regular passport isnt all that difficult either.

That 20% of the world represents a much larger potential immigrant population than we can get.

Theres your keyword: potential.

Go to Bradford in Yorkshire in England and you'd think you were in India or Whitechapel in London and you could be in Bangladesh or Brixton,

Actually that would mean its less diversified (sp?), because that would indicate certain people live in certain areas.
Although I know that to not be true (in the majority of cases) but it still has no significance, because the same can be found in the States. This argument is about statistics, not opinions. So unless you can provide statistics to counter mine this stops being an argument and starts into a opinionated factless argument.

I am not only talking from a report I have lived in several countries, which include the U.K. and know from personal experience.

Right, and I have been around the NE US and have seen a very diversified culture, so your point that their more diversified than us has no base and therefor wrong.

You are an idiot. No countries have a law where everyone over 14 has to carry a gun on them. Stop making shit up.

In sweden however, they do have a very strong gun culture, and it's not uncommon to see militia members with their service rifles on their shoulders on the way home from training. (Or was it Switzerland?)

At 4/15/04 09:19 AM, Dirdmister wrote: http://www.whatreallyhappened.com

it would seem that you are new to this forum. considering you posted such a horrendously anti american site for proof about america's murder rate. per chance you should read on some of the less biased sites before you go mouthing off that you know something.

At 4/2/07 06:34 PM, The-Wrathchild wrote:

:Switzerland?

yes its Switzerland, those people get them mixed up a lot.

thats also the reason Hitler never even touched switzerland, because he knew the swiss will give them all manner of hell.

At 4/2/07 06:22 PM, Eoewe wrote:

At 4/2/07 06:20 PM, zzzzd wrote:

Its the same in the US. Theres large chinese, african and spanish communities.
Also Britains an island. America has a huge border with a fairy poor country.
So America probably has more illegal immigrants.

Why must you make fun of Canada?

America definitely has more illegal immigrants.

We are getting off point. It's not who has the most diverse population etc etc.
We have the highest murder rate in the first world.
That is what we were talking about.

I just realized that certain people are sidetracking (taking the focus off) the real conversation,
our high (by first world standards) murder rate, which is without doubt the highest in the first world. It's not "Anti American" to say that, it is anti American to deny it. If we don't face our problem we can't fix it.

At 4/2/07 06:34 PM, The-Wrathchild wrote: You are an idiot. No countries have a law where everyone over 14 has to carry a gun on them. Stop making shit up.

In sweden however, they do have a very strong gun culture, and it's not uncommon to see militia members with their service rifles on their shoulders on the way home from training. (Or was it Switzerland?)

Yup it's Switzerland.

At 4/2/07 06:26 PM, K-RadPie wrote: You know, the UK and the Commonwealth are different things

Yes of course. The Commonwealth's, formerly British Commonwealth's, capital is London which is also the capital of the United Kingdom and England (England being a constituant country in the U.K.)

They are linked by several centuries of colonialism.

K. and know from personal experience.

Right, and I have been around the NE US and have seen a very diversified culture, so your point that their more diversified than us has no base and therefor wrong.

I have lived in NY and in London (amongst many places) I know how diversified each city is.
New York is not all of America though, same goes for London. I now live in the South and there are only three groups here (in any significant numbers) Whites (of European decent) African Americans and Hispanics (mostly from Mexico) not very diverse really. You know what though, I am not going to get into a petty argument with you over who is right or wrong about diversity.

The point is we have the highest (by far) murder rate in the first world. No arguments about diversity is going to change that. We need to find out what the real problem is and fix it, not blame it on newcomers (immigrants, be they legal or otherwise) After all unless you are Native American, then we are all the children or decendants of immigrants.

If you believe that, then stay away from countries that are at civil war

At 4/3/07 12:01 PM, DarkSarafan wrote: If you believe that, then stay away from countries that are at civil war

I couldn't agree more, although we were the catalyst for the civil war going on now.

But, I couldn't agree more.

At 4/2/07 04:04 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:

You could also compare immigration statisitcs with these first world nations and more then likely find the US in the front of that.

Yup 100%. You damn immigrants, always killing each other and driving a country down

At 4/3/07 11:14 AM, chazeverest wrote: The point is we have the highest (by far) murder rate in the first world. No arguments about diversity is going to change that.

Your right, we have the highest murder rate for civilized countries (24th overall) because we constantly have people coming in from uncivilized countries.

We need to find out what the real problem is and fix it, not blame it on newcomers (immigrants, be they legal or otherwise)

The real problem is the media, when I grew up saturday morning cartoons were all about guns and violence and kicking the bad guys ass.
Just about every other movie thats made is a action movie, and in our culture a movie where people shoot and kill each other is rated PG 13 while a movie where someone says fuck more than three times its rated R.

Not to mention the easy accesibility to guns and all.

I still am unsure why anyone is poting in a 3 year old thread but whatever.

I just want to make a point. We may have a high murder rate but the question is. . . DOES IT MATTER. Does our national murder rate greatly effect our nation and what we are trying to do with it. On top of that, is there anything we really can do about it or anything we would WANT to do with it.

My answer is a resounding no, no, no, no. Our murder rate may be relatively high when compared to other nations but it is around five people per hundred thousand. Think about that, DIVE PEOPLE PER HUNDRED THOUSAND. I doubt I have ever even met one hundred thousand people, let alone two thousand. We can raise a stink about it all we want but the fact of the matter is, on the national level it is simply NOT A CONCERN. It is a concern for local communities and local areas, thats it. Local communites are the only ones who can make a significant difference as it is. So we can bitch and moan all we want about our national murder rate but in the scheme of things it means jack shit.

And chavesrest or whatever your name is, stop spamming this thread up with quadrupule posts. Put it in one post or dont post it at all.

fact of the matter is, on the national level it is simply NOT A CONCERN. It is a concern for local communities and local areas, thats it. Local communites are the only ones who can make a significant difference as it is. So we can bitch and moan all we want about our national murder rate but in the scheme of things it means jack shit.

Of course it matters of course it means "Jack Shit". Of course we should fix it, it's not bitching and moaning to point at it and say fix it. It equates to roughly 15,000 people more or less depending on the year If you don't think that matters then there is something wrong with you.
I really doesn't matter if it a three year old thread. The problem is still the problem.

And chavesrest or whatever your name is, stop spamming this thread up with quadrupule posts. Put it in one post or dont post it at all.

OK, whatever your name is. I should read all the responses first.

If you give rifles to a tribe of apes they will have the highes murder rate amongst all apes in the whole world as well.

Take away their guns, and send all who resist to prison. And once more will more people be saved from death and USA will become more civilised.

At 4/15/04 08:28 AM, Dirdmister wrote: America has the highest murder rate in the WHOLE WORLD!

True, yet old news

That is a stupid argument aswell as in Sweden(i think its Sweden) its the law for EVERY BOY
AGED 14+ MUST CARRY A GUN AT ALL TIMES! And yet they have one of the lowest murder
rates!

Wrong, wrong wrong wrong. In sweden its illegal to carry a weapon (Except if you have a licence to hunt). They don't have the lowest murder rate either. Its Singapore.

Get your facts straight before you post nonsence like that.

At 4/5/07 04:10 AM, Kenzu wrote: If you give rifles to a tribe of apes they will have the highes murder rate amongst all apes in the whole world as well.

Take away their guns, and send all who resist to prison. And once more will more people be saved from death and USA will become more civilised.

I have an Australian friend who I discussed this with. He said "America isn't a civilized society, it's an industrialized one" I do not agree with him, but I can see how one would have such a point of view.

I think the issue here is not the United States but the foolish comparison choices you have made.

Yes, the United States is a First World country, but have you compared it in age to any of the others? France is over 1000 years old as approximately the independent territory it is today. Britain joined the "First World" over 1900 years ago. The United States formed about 220 years ago.

Just about the only places it can be compared against in the First World are Canada and Australia-- both relatively low population, low power nations and both are still heavily tied to their ancient originators. The United States is effectively the only First World country that has formed entirely independent of the ancient European nations for most of its history. So do you wonder why we're not like all the other First World countries? Because the United States is completely differetn from those nations, all of which are hundreds of years older or are still dominated by millenia-old nation cultures.

It's foolish to only compare the United States against the First World countries. We probably have more population than all of them combined. The United States is significantly better than many countries, so the real question should not be "Why is America so bad?", your poor question, but "Where in the US demographics is this crime occurring?" We know most of the victims and perpetrators are in the 18-21 range. Now the question is "Why?"

At 4/5/07 10:12 AM, Draconias wrote: I think the issue here is not the United States but the foolish comparison choices you have made.
It is not foolish to expect us to be law abiding as other first world countries.

Yes, the United States is a First World country, but have you compared it in age to any of the others? France is over 1000 years old as approximately the independent territory it is today. Britain joined the "First World" over 1900 years ago. The United States formed about 220 years ago.

What does the age of the country have to do with its murder rate. The culture of Amrica comes from England and other European countries mostly with a sizable portion from Africa (our former slaves) Our constitution and laws are based on those of England, ancient Greece and Ancient Rome. All very very old.

Just about the only places it can be compared against in the First World are Canada and Australia-- both relatively low population, low power nations and both are still heavily tied to their ancient originators.

Canada is right next to us, why would it be different? They are also a new country, whether or not they have strong links with the UK. Australia is also a new country, I don't see why America should be any different.

The United States is effectively the only First World country that has formed entirely independent of the ancient European nations for most of its history.

America DID NOT form independent of ancient European Nations, we are all (or at least the majority of us) descended from or children of European immigrants, they bought their culture, customs and food with them from their Ancient countries.

So do you wonder why we're not like all the other First World countries? Because the United States is completely differetn from those nations, all of which are hundreds of years older or are still dominated by millenia-old nation cultures.

America is not different to all those cultures, they all played a part in making America what it is today. All of them have contributed to the USA

It's foolish to only compare the United States against the First World countries. We probably have more population than all of them combined.

All the other fisrt world countries combined have a much much higher total population and the amount of people in a population has no relation to the PER CAPITA murder rate, that is why it's is measured that way. The population of the first world is as follows: from www.cia.gov
https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook /geos/ee.html#People

European Union 486,642,177 (July 2006 est)
Australia is 20,264,082 (July 2006 est.) From https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook /geos/as.html#People
New Zealand is 4,076,140 (July 2006 est.)
www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/nz .html#People
Japan 127,463,611 (July 2006 est.)
www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ja .html#People
That makes a total of 638,446,010.00 which is way more than our 300,000,000.00
The European Union alone has us beat by one hundred eighty six million, six hudred forty two thousand, one hudred seventy seven people.
Do you even think about what you say before you say it?

The United States is significantly better than many countries,
It is however significantly worse than every other first world country. Your argument about the age of the culture or society bears no weight as previously explained.

"Why is America so bad?", your poor question,
Who asked that question?

"Where in the US demographics is this crime occurring?" We know most of the victims and perpetrators are in the 18-21 range. Now the question is "Why?"

I agree with this comment and this one only.

lol, I still can't get over the fact that the topic starter said that all swedish guys have to carry a gun at all times... how pathetically idiotic.

At 4/4/07 10:37 AM, chazeverest wrote: Of course it matters of course it means "Jack Shit". Of course we should fix it, it's not bitching and moaning to point at it and say fix it. It equates to roughly 15,000 people more or less depending on the year If you don't think that matters then there is something wrong with you.

"Something wrong with you." Yes, laud your moral superiority over me. Its a riot and a weak way to debate, the equivalent of calling me a barbarian and yourself the compassionate man who cares so deeply for all these dearly departed souls.

1) 15,000 people in a nation of 300 million is nothing. Its a drop in the bucket.
2) As much as you want to overplay the horrors murder plays on our nation, it really does mean nothing. I have no fear of anywhere I go that I will suddenly be stabbed or shot in the face. I have lived in Miami, Los Angeles, and San Francisco and been to the more ghettoish parts of the city (as any teenager looking to get hammered would do, go to the inner city and look for sake bars or places that dont card) and never had problems. That is not to say there are not portions of cities that I would never venture into, but these portions are so ridiculously small and compromise such a stupidly small portion of our country it is almost off the radar of most peoples minds.
3) What should we do to fix our stupidly small murder rate? Turn America into a police state? Ban alcohol? Ban weapons and simply leave the matter of our personal defense to the government? While we are at making America safer, lets ban cars because people are killed using them. Then lets ban sex because people are killed doing it sometimes. Then ban food, 5000 people die from it a year.

If you can present any compelling argument other than the "oh its so inhumane" and the "moral superiority" bullshit you already lauded over me, I might care. As it is, America is a nation that is incredibly safe almost anywhere for a person of any nationality or religion.