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They don't make kevlar face masks, sadly....

As far as Michael Moore is concerned, no one here cares about his opinions, me included.

Don't you people know what INTERPOL is?

I can't believe I agreed with this guy on the last page. I was thinking "highest rate of western countries", and I just needed an excuse to be condescending to him. *shrug*

Watching a movie and taking a statistic from that really isn't proof. You can watch Terminator 2, and by that Judgement Day was suppose to already passed and the machines have taken over.

Try to find some proof with actual statistics and research on it with sources and we might give you a fair chance otherwise you're waisting your breath. I wouldn't say go find it yourself because you're the one trying to tell us something, you should back it up.

I could say that Bush is signing in a law today that forbids homosexuality at all, but I'd just sound like an idiot because I have no proof what so ever to back it up.

At 4/15/04 08:11 PM, ReiperX wrote: Watching a movie

ITS A DOCUMENTARY!

At 4/15/04 08:11 PM, ReiperX wrote: Try to find some proof with actual statistics and research on it

THERE IS STATISTICS ON THERE!!!

That's it, now I'm pissed...

Just because someone doctors/butchers/makes up a few statistics and puts it in a movie does not, and I mean not make it true. The fact that you consider Michael Moore's opinion to be Gospel sent down from Heaven and your additional refusal to hear someone else's opinion on the matter tells me that you are the most narrow mind arrogant egotistical example of a 15 year old that I have ever had the misfortune of encountering online!!
You need to pull your head out of your own ass, take a few deep breath's and LISTEN to what other people have to say instead of valiantly defending your own opinions without material to back them up.

Please post here until your mature enough to realize that your bigoted views are not appreciated in the BBS.

I'm not going down the road of blaming Moore, because I agree with the guy. I will sya one thing though: Post the statistics, will you, not just the place to get the statistics. Especially the fact that you're telling us to watch Bowling for Columbine, a movie. Some people may not be able to get hold of it. It's important to have your statistics there.

The preferred manner is to find the website with the statistics on, (choose the site carefully - yayforshooting.com is NOT a great place for gun stats, and bombtheyanks.com will NOT be acceptable for Terrosism statistics). Then, you paste, in Italics, the information you require, in bullet point/summarised fashion, then tell us the source, which is the website you got it from.

Moore is good for getting people interested. But he's not good for statistics by any shot. He's about equivalent to Ann Coultier. But fatter.

Ugh, this topic should be dead by now. I already gave the INTERPOL website that gives the statistics on murder, THE NETHERLANDS HAS MORE.

Thats it, topic done, just another stupid n00b, just stop posting.

You should put the numbers in because many people don't use adobe as it's a mem hog. Additionally I was under the impression that INTERPOL only took down statistics on international crime. I could be wrong though, so educate me.

At 4/16/04 05:18 PM, FatherVenom wrote: You should put the numbers in because many people don't use adobe as it's a mem hog. Additionally I was under the impression that INTERPOL only took down statistics on international crime. I could be wrong though, so educate me.

You can always search for a google snapshot of them instead.

USA - 5.61 Murders per 100,000 people
Netherlands - 10.84 Murders per 100,000 people

And Interpol doesn't just do that, it would be kinda useless for it to do that, since there isn't much international crime, if any.

Im curious as to the population of the Netherlands, and the population of the United States. Now this is the part where someone will say somethign about how it doesnt matter since it is based upon per 1000 people. BUt it does matter when one population is very negilgable. A town of 500 has a husband who murders his wife and 2 kids for a total of 3 murders in one year. So that year the homicide rate is 6 per 1000 residents. Now a city with 1 000 000 has 100 murders. This gives it a rate of 0.1 per 1000 residents. Which place is safer. A rate is only accurate as logn as the base populations are similar.
HAve a nice day.

At 4/16/04 10:40 PM, RugbySkvnkdaddy wrote: Im curious as to the population of the Netherlands, and the population of the United States. Now this is the part where someone will say somethign about how it doesnt matter since it is based upon per 1000 people. BUt it does matter when one population is very negilgable. A town of 500 has a husband who murders his wife and 2 kids for a total of 3 murders in one year. So that year the homicide rate is 6 per 1000 residents. Now a city with 1 000 000 has 100 murders. This gives it a rate of 0.1 per 1000 residents. Which place is safer. A rate is only accurate as logn as the base populations are similar.
HAve a nice day.

And what is that even supposed to mean? You seem to lack a comprehension of basic math here. They don't just pick 100,000 people at random and see how many are murderers, they take the entire population, and multiply the percentage that 100,000 people is out of it, and then multiply that same percentage by the total amount of murders.

And FYI, Netherlands is MUCH more densly populated than the US, so if anything your argument would make it seem like the US's rate is even less.

At 4/16/04 10:59 PM, Jimsween wrote: You seem to lack a comprehension of basic math here.

LOL i agree.
The statistics you gave are per 100,000, USA has the highest gun crime total. Now some argue here that there population is way higher but China has a low gun crime death than you. Then others argue that because of the wild west era that the country possesses alot of guns from then but there is a country in Europe(Sweden i think) where its the law for every boy 14+ must carry a firearm at all times!

Actually we are the 5th highest, not the number 1 highest.....get your facts straight.

At 4/15/04 08:28 AM, Dirdmister wrote: America has the highest murder rate in the WHOLE WORLD!
Origionally there argument to this was "Our country is so populated". That is a terrible argument look at China and they have a lot ower murder rate than America.
They then said "there are so many guns available because of the Cowboy era". That is a stupid argument aswell as in Sweden(i think its Sweden) its the law for EVERY BOY AGED 14+ MUST CARRY A GUN AT ALL TIMES! And yet they have one of the lowest murder rates!
So basically Americans are just very angry people..This is probably why they have been involved in every war that has gone on!

America does not have the highest murder rate in the world, just the highest in the 1st world.
The country you are thinking of with the guns is Switzerland not Sweden. The age is 18 not 14 and you're not compelled to carry a gun at all times. The actual law is that everyone (male 18 and over) has to join the defense force (Swiss Army). They are issued with an automatic weapon. The weapon is only to be used in the time of a national emergency (i.e. an invasion)
The gun is to be kept locked in a lock box at all times with the ammunition stored in a separate lock box. Before the rifles are issued a rifle print (fingerprint for that gun) is made and stored on a data base, so that if that gun were to be used in an unauthorized manner (i.e. in a crime) they would know which weapon was used and trace it back to the registered member of the Defense Force. Please get your info right. In effect the guns cannot be used (if fired) in any crime without the perpetrator being immediately identified. The info about the murder rate is available from the Human Development Report (which is published by the United Nations) it doesn't say the USA is the worst; it simply gives a place on the list of countries.
When you search the list you see that there are no first world countries with a higher murder rate. America has roughly 10 times the murder rate of most other 1st world countries.
This is directly from the Human Development report. As you can see there are no other first world countries with a higher murder rate. There are several second and third world countries with lower murder rates. (FYI 1st. 2nd, and 3rd. world are expressions developed during the cold war to designate developed industrialized countries with democratic forms of government, 2nd. world were all the Eastern Block (behind the Iron Curtain) and communist countries and third world were the poor undeveloped countries.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countrie s_by_homicide_rate

Let's take two cities of roughly equal size; New York and London (actually land has 50% more land area and a population approaching 10 million as opposed to NYC's 6 million.

London has a murder rate of 1.5 per 100,000 of population where NYC has a murder rate of 35 per 100k of population.

Using your logic, London should have a murder rate slightly higher than NYC and yet it is much much much lower.

At 4/15/04 10:11 AM, Dirdmister wrote: Sorry i got it slightly wrong..America has the most GUN DEATHS in the world which is still just as bad! I know where the facts are.
Have you heard of Michael Moore(USA)?
Rent his video Bowling For Columbine!
It has all the statistics and more about USA and Iraq.

Yes you're right on this point. We do have the highest gun death rate in the world.

At 4/15/04 04:29 PM, TuRbanNatoR wrote: How the hell would you and how the hell would any one else know what america has the highest murder rate

Quite easily. From the reports and post mortems that have to be done when someone dies or is killed. It's very easy to get these numbers.

The Human Development Report gives everything you need to know about every country in the world.

At 4/16/04 05:45 PM, Jimsween wrote:

At 4/16/04 05:18 PM, FatherVenom wrote: You should put the numbers in because many people don't use adobe as it's a mem hog. Additionally I was under the impression that INTERPOL only took down statistics on international crime. I could be wrong though, so educate me.

You can always search for a google snapshot of them instead.

USA - 5.61 Murders per 100,000 people
Netherlands - 10.84 Murders per 100,000 people

And Interpol doesn't just do that, it would be kinda useless for it to do that, since there isn't much international crime, if any.

What utter BS this is.
USA - 5.61 Murders per 100,000 people

Netherlands - 10.84 Murders per 100,000 people

Complete and utter nonsense. Where did you dig up this BS.
Go to the Human Development Report.
It shows us (The USA) in a good light in many ways, but not in the murder rate department.
The murder rate in The Netherlands (Holland) is 0.97 (that's less than 1) per 100k of pop the USA is 5.9 per 100k of pop. in 2006. The murder rate is dropping in the USA, but is still much higher than other first world countries (That's 600.25% higher in the USA than in Holland)

If that info was supplied by Interpol, then I am a monkey's uncle. Everything I have found from Interpol supports what I am saying not what you are. You need to supply links to reputable (law enforecment or similar) websites if you want to be believed.

Actually, according to this were ranked 24th.

At 4/17/04 04:50 AM, Dirdmister wrote: LOL i agree.
The statistics you gave are per 100,000, USA has the highest gun crime total.

No, actually South Africa does. We rank in at 8th.

At 4/2/07 02:42 PM, fahrenheit wrote: Actually, according to this were ranked 24th.

That's 24th in the world. But if your look, there are no FIRST world countries with higher muder rates, they only ones worse than us are third world countries.
And actually there are many third world countires with lower murder rates,

At 4/2/07 02:50 PM, chazeverest wrote: That's 24th in the world.

Yeah, but were still not the first.

Besides, its what happens when you allow people to own guns. And you market gun toting and violent cartoons to children.

At 4/2/07 02:47 PM, fahrenheit wrote:

At 4/17/04 04:50 AM, Dirdmister wrote: LOL i agree.
The statistics you gave are per 100,000, USA has the highest gun crime total.

No, actually South Africa does. We rank in at 8th.

8th out of a world of in excess of 200 countries is pretty damn miserable, don't you think.
I don't know about you, but I think 192 place out of 200 stinks.

At 4/2/07 02:54 PM, fahrenheit wrote:

At 4/2/07 02:50 PM, chazeverest wrote: That's 24th in the world.

Yeah, but were still not the first.

Besides, its what happens when you allow people to own guns. And you market gun toting and violent cartoons to children.

I specifically said we do not have the highest murder rate in the world, we have the highest in the first world.
I agree with your second point.

You people need to learn to use something called support.

Per Capita Murder Statistics
#1 Colombia: 61.78 murders per 100,000 people
#24 United States: 4.28 murders per 100,000 people
#51 Netherlands: 1.12 murders per 100,000 people

The United States is not #1 in murders by a longshot, and it's only about 4x worse than the Netherlands. The primary reason for that is almost invariably that the Netherlands is a mature, stagnating country as opposed to the United States, which is still going through lagre population convulsions from immigration and ghetto regions.

Since the United States is not #1 in murders, and not even close, the main topic of this thread is pretty much invalidated.

Extra Sources:
Confirmation of Colombia Murder Rate
Page 10 - US rate really closer to 5

#1 Colombia: 0.617847 per 1,000 people
#2 South Africa: 0.496008 per 1,000 people
#3 Jamaica: 0.324196 per 1,000 people
#4 Venezuela: 0.316138 per 1,000 people
#5 Russia: 0.201534 per 1,000 people
#6 Mexico: 0.130213 per 1,000 people
#7 Estonia: 0.107277 per 1,000 people
#8 Latvia: 0.10393 per 1,000 people
#9 Lithuania: 0.102863 per 1,000 people
#10 Belarus: 0.0983495 per 1,000 people
#11 Ukraine: 0.094006 per 1,000 people
#12 Papua New Guinea: 0.0838593 per 1,000 people
#13 Kyrgyzstan: 0.0802565 per 1,000 people
#14 Thailand: 0.0800798 per 1,000 people
#15 Moldova: 0.0781145 per 1,000 people
#16 Zimbabwe: 0.0749938 per 1,000 people
#17 Seychelles: 0.0739025 per 1,000 people
#18 Zambia: 0.070769 per 1,000 people
#19 Costa Rica: 0.061006 per 1,000 people
#20 Poland: 0.0562789 per 1,000 people
#21 Georgia: 0.0511011 per 1,000 people
#22 Uruguay: 0.045082 per 1,000 people
#23 Bulgaria: 0.0445638 per 1,000 people
#24 United States: 0.042802 per 1,000 people
#25 Armenia: 0.0425746 per 1,000 people
#26 India: 0.0344083 per 1,000 people
#27 Yemen: 0.0336276 per 1,000 people
#28 Dominica: 0.0289733 per 1,000 people
#29 Azerbaijan: 0.0285642 per 1,000 people
#30 Finland: 0.0283362 per 1,000 people
#31 Slovakia: 0.0263303 per 1,000 people

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_per cap-crime-murders-per-capita