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At 4/15/04 11:43 AM, Lyddiechu wrote: If we lose Israel, we lose the entire middle east. Not a great idea.

Well maybe if you stopped supporting those assholes, the other middle eastern country's wouldn't be so pissed at you anymore.

Reasons yes it was Palestines land. You dont think that that may have fumed some anger to commit 9/11? Not even a little?
How would you like it if someone stole your car? You would want it back!
Im done for the day....Im goin on general to talk about games!

PS in America did you hear about the murders in England of Sarah and Jessica by Ian Huntly?
That was so sad!

At 4/15/04 01:34 PM, Dirdmister wrote: Reasons yes it was Palestines land. You dont think that that may have fumed some anger to commit 9/11? Not even a little?
How would you like it if someone stole your car? You would want it back!
Im done for the day....Im goin on general to talk about games!

PS in America did you hear about the murders in England of Sarah and Jessica by Ian Huntly?
That was so sad!

Based on the rate of call back to multiple topics, your obvious 2-dimensional approach to every discussion you enter and your limited attention span to develop any topic to a logical conclusion beyond 2 posts, I deduce that you are in fact, a chatbot. A highly developed DB mind you, but still a lowly chatbot.

P.S. The logic to your answer was weak. The question asked was define a tactical reason to pull out (we are already there genious). And you completely ignored the multi-facet questions. Stupid bot.

At 4/15/04 01:34 PM, Dirdmister wrote: Reasons yes it was Palestines land. You dont think that that may have fumed some anger to commit 9/11? Not even a little?

I think the American presence in Saudi Arabia had a bigger effect, considering that Bin-Laden is Saudi, as well as 15 of the terrorists on 9/11/01.

Dird you have a lot to learn about the world.

I'm no supporter of unconditionally supporting Isreal but at the same time I don't think we should cut our ties totally. Thats one thing that creates more hostility towards the US. As for the Asassination of the guy, I'm no fan of the tactic of shooting a missle (not a bomb) at the guy to kill him, they should have done it a slightly more discrete way in my opinion, but can't change the past now can we?

As for Russia and China knocking the USA off of the Superpower Pedistal. Won't happen anytime soon, while there is a chance that one of them will become a superpower they will be a superpower with the US. If the US economy collapses like it sounds like you're expecting it to then a lot of other economies are going to be hurting too. Our economy and Chinas are very closely connected. As for China hating us, some of the population may not like us, but as far as the government goes their country likes us because of trade.

At 4/15/04 01:31 PM, Veggiemeal wrote:

At 4/15/04 11:43 AM, Lyddiechu wrote: If we lose Israel, we lose the entire middle east. Not a great idea.

Well maybe if you stopped supporting those assholes, the other middle eastern country's wouldn't be so pissed at you anymore.

i seriously doubt that. i dont see how the israelis are "assholes", really i think they are perfectly justified in acting in self defense.

im convinced the only way to true peace in the world would be to kill and or brainwash this entire present generation of militant islamic people who are bent on terrorism. but of course thats not ethically possible.

anyway though, i really see absolutely no reason why the palestinians should have any more of israel than the disputed west bank territory which is being gradually returned to them as we speak (read today's new york times, kids) if anyone has a historical claim to it, it is really the jews. if anyone has a strategic claim to it, its the united states. it sounds harsh, but its true. i really dont feel comfortable with a middle east without US intervention.

At 4/15/04 02:42 PM, Lyddiechu wrote: i seriously doubt that. i dont see how the israelis are "assholes", really i think they are perfectly justified in acting in self defense.

Payback attacks are something different than self defense mkay? Sure, the Palestines are no better, but why favor the Israeli's above the Palestines by giving them 3 billion a year?

im convinced the only way to true peace in the world would be to kill and or brainwash this entire present generation of militant islamic people who are bent on terrorism. but of course thats not ethically possible.

The fun thing is, these people think the same way about you.

anyway though, i really see absolutely no reason why the palestinians should have any more of israel than the disputed west bank territory which is being gradually returned to them as we speak (read today's new york times, kids) if anyone has a historical claim to it, it is really the jews. if anyone has a strategic claim to it, its the united states. it sounds harsh, but its true. i really dont feel comfortable with a middle east without US intervention.

Well, the Palestines lived there, until the UN decided to just put Israel on that spot. I'd say that gives them more than enough right to that territory, no?

At 4/15/04 01:34 PM, Dirdmister wrote: Reasons yes it was Palestines land. You dont think that that may have fumed some anger to commit 9/11? Not even a little?

excuses and reasons are different things. extremist islamic terrorists hate everyone and everything that they percieve to be a threat to their culture. which means that they hate pretty much everyone and everything that doesn't adhere strictly to sharia law, and their interperetation of the qu'ran.
the middle east situation, and the western presences there may well stoke the flames, but there is no single real-life event that could be used to justify their hatred of the west.

How would you like it if someone stole your car? You would want it back!

i take it that you also believe that the white farmers from zimbabwe were unjustified in their ownership of their land? also that mugabe was justified in sending people to kill/evict them?

it is the same principle. the analogy should read:"if someone stole your great great granfather's car, and then passed it on to subsequent generations of their family, do you feel you should have a claim to it?"

Im done for the day....Im goin on general to talk about games!

PS in America did you hear about the murders in England of Sarah and Jessica by Ian Huntly?
That was so sad!

please, don't remind us about that. it was so easily avoidable that it takes the tragedy to entirely new levels. we need a "sarah's law", but this is not the thread for this discussion.

Who ever thinks we should stop helping Israel is a terroist

Ok skvnk im not a bot :p im a 15 yr old from England!
Reiper i do learn!
Bombkang... they dont hate everyone hav you watched the news lately? Bin Laden has offered a deal with Europe! Did they give America the same deal?
I say let the UN take control and will all be sorted in a month!
Its the killer instinct feeling that America has that has made this go on for so long and the fact that they are hated! (read my America has the highest gun rate thread)

At 4/15/04 05:02 PM, Dirdmister wrote: Ok skvnk im not a bot :p im a 15 yr old from England!
Reiper i do learn!
Bombkang... they dont hate everyone hav you watched the news lately? Bin Laden has offered a deal with Europe! Did they give America the same deal?

No because he knows that America isn't full of whiny little pussies. Just Kerry and his supporters.

I say let the UN take control and will all be sorted in a month!

The UN doesn't want control and they haven't been shy about saying it.

Its the killer instinct feeling that America has that has made this go on for so long and the fact that they are hated! (read my America has the highest gun rate thread)

I seem to recall Saddam having a whole week to flee the country and go into exile before we dropped one bomb. That would have gotten it over pretty quick.

At 4/15/04 05:13 PM, BeSkvnk wrote: The UN doesn't want control and they haven't been shy about saying it.

And why dont they want to take control?
BECAUSE IT ISNT A JUST WAR! They also havent been shy about the fact that they dont agree with the war!
But America ignores as usual and follows its own rules!

And everyone who isnt American arent pussies! We just dont go aroud abusing other countries like a bully in a playground....coz thats what its like!
But still our country isnt great...Its supposed to be a democracy and yet Blair went against the countries wishes and decided to help you out! Well.......Its positive that he's gone next election!

Dirdmister stop. You are embarrassing our country.

The problem with you Americans and Israelis is you always have to retaliate. They bomb you, you bomb them back. They fly planes into your towers, you bomb their general-location on the globe. With the Israelis this is much worse.

The US must revoke their independence and once again come under the fold of England as a colony. Then we can use our tried and tested anti-terrorist measures that were perfected with the IRA. Instead of bombing them when they bomb us, we talked. They bombed us again, but we talked. Although they bombed us after that, when we talked this time it worked. And after a final bombing there was no more.

As for China and Russia overtaking the US, I don't see the point when they'll run out of fuel soon anyway. Metaphorically AND literally! Do you see what I did there? God I'm a genius.

As for China and Russia overtaking the US, I don't see the point when they'll run out of fuel soon anyway. Metaphorically AND literally! Do you see what I did there? God I'm a genius.

I meant the US will run out of fuel, I built that sentance a bit craply. Why isn't there an edit button here?

Israel didn't have the prettiest beginnings, but that was in the past and we can't do anything about it now. There are innocent civilians who live there and despite the ugly past, they don't deserve to die. If we stop aiding Israel, we condemn those people to die.

I guess it's easy to tell people who live in a dangerous part of the world what's ethical and right when you're not living there.

We dont have to condem them just relocate them in USA and Europe that way they dont live there and they will understand the ethics. Palestine will also be a lot more reasonable!

At 4/15/04 08:42 AM, mr_trivia wrote: It's been predicted in the Bible Codes that seven years after Israel and Palestinians make peace, the Earth as we know it will end. Maybe it'll be the great earthquake in Los Angeles in the year 2010, or maybe it'll be the meteor shower in the year 2012, but one way or another, the world will (supposedly) end if we help Israel achieve peace.

the earthquake in 2010 wont end the world but it will end millions of lives its supposed to seperate the entire state of california from the u.s. the metorshower will probly kill us but that depends on the size of the meteors if they are the size of houses cars basket balls they will break up in the atmosphere and shrink signifficantly thus doing only partial damage. but if a big one comes the scientist propse that a nuclear blast my alter its path and nock it off course....and yet again in like 1 billion years the sun will blow up ending life as we know it unless we some how create plasma shields by then and surround the world with one then we are fucked...

im smarter then i sound on other posts

At 4/15/04 06:03 PM, Dirdmister wrote: We dont have to condem them just relocate them in USA and Europe that way they dont live there and they will understand the ethics. Palestine will also be a lot more reasonable!

no, no we cant just move them. you guys are missing the point.. the us would lose its MOST VALUABLE ALLY in their struggle against international terrorism (the greatest threat today against intl. instability)

christ, read a political theory book people. come on.

At 4/15/04 11:43 AM, JesusCyborg wrote:

The fact of the matter is that Israel has brought us a computer that runs on DNA. Palestine... has brought us a tainted view of individual rights and many many dead people.

well depending on how far you choose to look back and what you want to ignore yada yada yada you are a fucking idiot.

oh what i was going to say is they brought great advancements in european civilization after the crusades so shut up.

At 4/15/04 06:25 PM, Lyddiechu wrote:

no, no we cant just move them. you guys are missing the point.. the us would lose its MOST VALUABLE ALLY in their struggle against international terrorism (the greatest threat today against intl. instability)

christ, read a political theory book people. come on.

yeah thats about it at this point. But i believe scarcity in energy resources will cause more instability. Hell terrorism doesnt cause instability. It brought near unanimous support to bush even though he is an idiot.

Move the jews who have been there for decades, and many of whom have been born there. You know, this seems almost like exactly what has happened to the jews over and over again.

You can't help but love the irony.

its interesting that the history of israel hasent been brought up so lets start for ease of disscusion around the late 1800's on the first Jews started setlling the British colleny (sp) of palestine around this time it was originaly just a few people settling modernday telavive (sp) and the coast which was uninhabited swamp land or marshes.the amount of Jews settling this area was small at this time only a couple hundred or so a year at the most.

then during WWI the Balford documents were signed and allowed around 8 thousand settleres (predominently Jewish) a year to settle and they did because at this point there was a disire by Jewish communitys to excape rising antiJewish (want to avoid using semtic) atmosphere that was growing over all of europe. this was around 1918 i believe. and through out the time form then to wwII money was also sent down to the Settlers so that they could buy more and more land that the palistinians felt was usless because the palestinians didnt have the money or technology to iregate and drain the marshes and swamps.

then WWII happens and it becomes clear that there is a need for a Jewish state and since a good number of jews were now settled in costal Israel the british gave up there colleny therer and handed some more land over to the holocost survivers but they still put a limit of something like 80,000 to 100,000 people a year who could settle in costal israel.

the next big event that happens which i forget the date for is the Israelie war for independence when the palisitnians see the value of the land that the Jewish settlers had and they attacked. the Israelie army then after some inishal defetes pusshes the palistinian attackers out of the settled land and then continues on to Jeruselm in intense fighting. after that war there were 5-6 other wars which have defined the modern bounderies of Israel.

now with that stated i dont think that we should stop helping a nation that is determined to survive and grow through legal means but at the same time be able back up there expansion with the use of military when they are forced to. every time Israel extended there hand out to the palistinians in peace agreaments the palistinians have only given the Israelies lip serviese.

In the Isreali war for independence they actually defended against like 5-7 countries, not just the Palestinians.

At 4/15/04 06:42 PM, ineffable_fetus wrote: Move the jews who have been there for decades, and many of whom have been born there. You know, this seems almost like exactly what has happened to the jews over and over again.

You can't help but love the irony.

Yeah, the fact that they're cleansing the Palestinians... ah, beautiful hyporcracy, how I miss you.

At 4/15/04 07:22 PM, bumcheekcity wrote: Yeah, the fact that they're cleansing the Palestinians... ah, beautiful hyporcracy, how I miss you.

Oh yeah, by trying to live by them. Those evil bastards, lets bomb them for that.

At 4/15/04 07:42 PM, ineffable_fetus wrote:

At 4/15/04 07:22 PM, bumcheekcity wrote: Yeah, the fact that they're cleansing the Palestinians... ah, beautiful hyporcracy, how I miss you.

Oh yeah, by trying to live by them. Those evil bastards, lets bomb them for that.

if we just bomb palastine isreal and france the world would be a better place :)

At 4/15/04 06:23 PM, imdisturbed wrote:

At 4/15/04 08:42 AM, mr_trivia wrote:

the earthquake in 2010 wont end the world but it will end millions of lives its supposed to seperate the entire state of california from the u.s. the metorshower will probly kill us but that depends on the size of the meteors if they are the size of houses cars basket balls they will break up in the atmosphere and shrink signifficantly thus doing only partial damage. but if a big one comes the scientist propse that a nuclear blast my alter its path and nock it off course....and yet again in like 1 billion years the sun will blow up ending life as we know it unless we some how create plasma shields by then and surround the world with one then we are fucked...

Didn't know we could predict earthquakes with that great of accuracy to tell time, locations, and the magnitude it would take to seperate California.

Technically everything will end in a few trillion years when the atoms break down (saw something on the news about it a few years back that the atmos are all slowly breaking down and in a few trillion years they'll actually break down, will post a source if I can find one it was kinda interesting).

kool oh yea they did predict an earthquake of that magnitude y do u think i posted it!

I didnt read all of these posts but im pretty sure some people must have called you a nazi for not liking isreal, people who would call you a nazi are usually simple minded idiots who cant tell the difference between a country and a "race", like the neo-nazis that are poping up, they hate isreal for what its doing, which is great, but they blame it on all jews, which I dont think is right.

Isreal supposedly attacked and sunk a usa ship and claimed that the palastinians somehow had the means to do it and it was "obviously them because theyre evil" or something like that. Its obivous isrealis did it but the usa government tries to ignore it and be friends with isreal, like a wife ignoring getting beaten by her husband, a bad cycle.

When you say "We MUST stop helping Israel", if you mean "we" as in the people, no, the people cant get the usa to stop. IF you speak out against the usa's actions or isreal in a public place, you can be arrested and taken somewhere for any ammount of time while the media could report you as some extreemist nazi, all thanks to Bush's "patriot" act.

Lots of recent presidents, like bill clinton, said at least once that they will die for isreal. Theres more "evidence" but this is a big one. Theres tonns of stuff about 9/11, suggesting it was done either by isreal or someone framing isreal, its in the "underground 9/11 report" you can get here www.threeworldwars.com . Theres just too much about that for me to type. Supposedly all major media companies and many hollywood companieshave a ceo or news chief who is a "zionist" which is kind of like a jewish extreemist, kind of like the christian KKK, which is one reason the usa media's soo one-sided.

Sharon is worse than Bush, much worse.

"If you dont like Isreal, then that means your a nazi, and you dont want to be a nazi........do you?" Pretty much what alot of people say.